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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Charles Holden/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 15:20, 6 May 2011 [1].

Charles Holden edit

Charles Holden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): DavidCane (talk) 00:47, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Holden was an early modernist architect who left a lasting architectural legacy in London. Starting out in the Arts and Crafts Movement at the beginning of the 20th century, he progressively simplified and stripped down his style to its bare elements. He was awarded the Royal Institute of British Architects' highest award, the Royal Gold Medal, in 1936 and declined a knighthood on two occasions. In the 1920s he was one of the principal architects designing the war cemeteries in France and Belgium for the British war dead of the First World War. His largest buildings in London remain prominent examples of the 1930s monumental style, but he is probably best known for and had the longest lasting influence with his stations for London Transport. This is a second nomination, as the first ran out of steam and was closed.--DavidCane (talk) 00:47, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Have reviewed the changes made since my support in the previous review, and following the discussions and changes made during that review, especially the addition of material from the book by Karol (which the nominator obtained at the time of the last review) I am happy to support again here. Carcharoth (talk) 08:49, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments: Sources look good quality and wide-ranging, and citation formats are generally OK (they were checked out at the last FAC). A few general points:-

  • There is quite a lot of "as quoted in" in the citations. This is OK if, for example, a whole letter or lengthy extract is given in the cited source. Otherwise there can be difficulties in establishing that what is quoted is accurate and in context. Is it possible in any of these cases to cite to the original?
    • Karol uses quotations in a couple of ways: direct quotes of a just few words dropped into a sentence and longer quotes in notes. I have had to return the book now, but I took some scans of parts of the book so I will see if any of these can be expanded in the notes or text.--DavidCane (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Unfortunately, the bits I have scanned don't cover any of the pages that the quotes have been taken from, so I can't expand the quotes any further. In several cases the original sources are unpublished - letters or journal entries in the RIBA's archive of Holden's papers or in private hands.--DavidCane (talk) 21:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Guardian articles of Glancey and Jenkins would be better referenced to The Guardian itself, rather than to the paper's website which hosts them
    • OK. Although the article publication histories for these on guardian.co.uk are ambiguous.--DavidCane (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Capitalisation in book or article titles should follow the original's format. Thus Pevsner and Cherry 1973, "cities" follows the style of the Google reference, but not the original per the book. Also, Cherry is the editor, not the co-author.
    • The capitalisation is probably my fault. Bridget Cherry is not listed as editor - the cover and title page list her as the reviser and the foreword to the third edition states that "Mrs Charry is responsible for nearly the whole of the revision needed to bring the volume - within limits - up to date." The copy I have to hand at the momement has both names on the spine. All this seems to qualify her as the co-author. --DavidCane (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 26, 27, 33, 34, 36, 41, 45, 46, 47, 64, 72 lack publisher (English Heritage in each case)
  • Ref 91 Mendelssohn? Where defined?
    • From a letter he wrote to Holden in 1938. Now stated. --DavidCane (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 114: We should have pub & date details for the original article.
    • It was 1957 and I, think, the architectural review, but don't remember Karol saying which edition and I can't check now. --DavidCane (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the "Notes" contain uncited information
    • 1. was added because a comment was raised in the previous review. These are just specific dictionary meanings.
    • 8. A trip to the site or a view on Google street maps shows that the adjacent 1960s building hides the view seen in the postcard.
    • 11. Again, trips to the stations would show show some have been rebuilt. I'll find sources for the rest having new façades.
    • 15. Sources added. --DavidCane (talk) 18:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 17. Source added. --DavidCane (talk) 23:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton (talk) 13:39, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Per the instructions listed on PD-UK-unknown, "please specify in the image description the research you have carried out to find who the author was."
    • These were discussed in the previous nomination. I have added the explanation given there into the images. The three images from the BMJ are almost certainly public domain in the US anyway because the journal is published there as well and they were published without attribution before 1923. In the book that it was sourced from, the postcard image of the hospital gave an attribution to a library collection, but not a photographer.--DavidCane (talk) 21:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to this site, the London Underground logo is copyrighted

Not crazy about the layout either - there's a fair amount of both white space and sandwiching on my screen. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:57, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have tried various layouts, but want to keep the images in proximity to the relevant text rather than have a string of unrelated pictures down one side. I assume that you are seeing white space alongside the centred groups of images if you have a wide screen. I have done this to avoid the sandwiching problem that occurs if they are moved to one side or the other. Where are you seeing sandwiching at the moment?--DavidCane (talk) 21:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • At the moment, between the British Medical Association and the Bristol Royal Infirmary, and between South Wimbledon and the UERL. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:44, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have moved the Bristol Royal Infirmary down a bit. At standard text size, that now does not sandwich on anything less than 1440 px wide. The other problem does not seem to occur until the screen width gets above 1700 px wide. In both cases though the text between is still a readable width, so I don't think it causes a problem with crowding.--DavidCane (talk) 22:29, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Extended prose discussion moved to talk page. - Dank (push to talk) 01:35, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer, with the understanding that you're going to replace "elevation" where it doesn't refer to a drawing. These and these (plus the last two, mentioned above) were my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 13:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Please consider providing unit conversions. I saw an instance of 'mile' without, there may be more. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 18:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. Looks good. Lightmouse (talk) 08:40, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead is good. After a brief yet productive review, which can now be found on the FAC talk page, it is my opinion that the lead is balanced and well-written. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 23:43, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support I supported this article at its last nomination, and it has improved since then. The architecture is well described and the comments about his work includes a balanced view. An interesting read.— Rod talk 08:47, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I found the prose somewhat comma-heavy, making it hard to get through, but I guess that's a personal preference since it didn't seem to trouble any reviewer. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Would you like the commas removed here? "They were introduced by Holden's older sister, Alice, and became friends through their common interest in Whitman." - Dank (push to talk) 15:21, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sandy, if there are any specific bits that you think are particularly flush with commas, let me know and I will see if I can do something about them. --DavidCane (talk) 22:09, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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