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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bruton Smith/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by FrB.TG via FACBot (talk) 16 November 2023 [1].

Bruton Smith edit

Nominator(s): Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 15:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about businessman Bruton Smith, who dabbled in numerous fields but primarily in motorsports. Considered to be one of the most influential and polarizing people in motorsports, he had a long and storied career that lasted from the 1950s until 2022, being the founder of both Speedway Motorsports and Sonic Automotive. The article passed a successful GA nomination in July of this year; I managed to bring it from an issue-riddled page to GA over the span of a few weeks. I’ve been pondering on when to send it to FA; I think the time is now right. This is my first FA nomination, so any and all feedback is welcomed and appreciated. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 15:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to FAC edit

Hi Nascar9919 and thank you for your nomination to FAC. A few pointers on the process and how to get the best from it:

What to expect

Dealing with reviewers

  • Try to deal with comments in a timely and constructive fashion
  • Remember the reviewers are constructively giving their opinion on the article
  • Keep calm when dealing with criticism of any aspect of the article
  • Don't take the criticism personally: reviewers are examining the article – not you!

How to get the best from the process

  • Reviewing the work of others is a good way to get a grasp of the process from the other side
  • Reviewing also increases the likelihood that others will review your nomination – although remember there is no quid pro quo at FAC.

Finally, good luck with the nomination! FrB.TG (talk) 19:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie edit

  • "Early in his life, Smith showed discontent on living on a farm, stating that while he had the essentials to live, his family had a lack of wealth. According to Smith, his days consisted of working from "sunup to sundown", and he felt that he did not earn enough money for the job he did." The source has '"I was born and raised on a farm," Smith says. "You have food, clothing, and shelter, but you never have any money. And I never did like that. I did not like it. You worked from sunup to sundown, but you did not see the rewards."' This is paraphrased enough to avoid problems with WP:CLOP, but it's a bit stilted as a result. For example, "showed discontent on living on a farm", and "had a lack of wealth" -- "were poor" would be more straightforward. I think it's slightly inaccurate too -- working on a family farm means he almost certainly earned no money personally, so "money for the job he did" isn't right. How about "Growing up on a farm meant Smith's family had a home and enough to eat, but despite working from "sunup to sundown" they had little money. Smith "never did like that", and by the age of nine had decided he would leave the farm.
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Smith initially wanted to become a boxer, wanting to become the middleweight champion of the world at the age of 11." The source doesn't say this was his first childhood dream, though it might have been of course. It would be safer to cut "initially". It would be more natural to state his age in the first part of the sentence; I assume you're not doing that to avoid close paraphrasing. How about "When he was 11, Smith began practicing with a home-made punching bag, and dreamed of becoming the middleweight champion of the world."
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The mention of the trucking company in the source is pretty minor; seems like he wanted to own a train, and a trucking company, but these weren't dreams in the same class as five years hitting a punching bag. I'd downplay these a little if you do want to mention them, perhaps giving a bit more of the background -- e.g. "He recalled having "crazy ideas" as a child: he saw one movie in which a tycoon owned a train, and another in which Jimmy Cagney owned a trucking company, and for a while decided he also wanted to own a train and a trucking company".
  • Edited. Let me know if this needs to be tweaked further. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, his mother opposed the idea of Smith racing, beginning to pray that Smith stopped racing. Smith, stating that he couldn't "fight [his] mom and God", stopped racing". Needs a copyedit: very repetitive structure.
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At this point I decided to skip down through the article to see if I could find other places where a copyedit was needed. Some more:

  • "a direct competitor to the recently founded NASCAR, which was founded the same year". Repetitive.
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the same year, France and Smith discussed merging their sanctioning bodies and came to a tentative agreement on the issue; however, Smith was drafted into the United States Army to fight in the Korean War in January 1951, becoming a paratrooper. When Smith returned to civilian life two years later, he found that mismanagement in his absence had caused the NSCRA to dissolve." The source doesn't cover most of this as far as I can see.
  • Added new source. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 23:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the 1960 World 600 that was held on June 19": this is cited to a paper that appeared on June 15. It would be best to cite something after the event; weather and other issues can cause cancellations so we can't definitely assert this happened with this source.
  • Added new source. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 23:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of the paragraph starting "By the late 1950s" is cited to a single source. Some issues:
    • "newer, more modern facilities being built, such as Darlington Raceway": the source doesn't say it was new or modern; it says it was a "large paved track". I'm guessing you know from your knowledge of the sport that it was indeed new and modern, but we need more than this as a source.
    • "While Smith initially had the upper hand against Turner, in 1958": I think this is sourced to "The competition seemed one-sided: a revered racer and three track owners versus a 32-year-old dirt-track upstart", but I don't think that works -- it may have seemed one-sided at the start but that doesn't mean Smith had built any advantage in the competition, just that it looked as though he would.
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • "heir to his family's successful timber business": I think this is sourced to "the papers described him as a millionaire lumber man". That doesn't say it was a family business and in any case it would be better to say what the article says, which is that Smith thought that -- he called him because he had heard he was rich.
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Knowing Turner did not have the funds to build his own speedway, compounded with the fact that Turner had struggled to sell the 300,000 shares needed to start his project, Smith pledged to sell 100,000 of the shares by himself": sourced to "[Smith knew that Turner] didn't even have enough money to get started. When Turner's group struggled selling the 300,00 shares needed to start its project, Smith offered to sell 100,000 of the shares himself". This is insufficiently paraphrased.
  • Edited. Let me know if this needs to be tweaked further. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'To further compound problems, reducing the value of Piper Glen would "seriously erode" the net worth of North Carolina Federal.[83] The failure of Piper Glen, along with numerous other problems with real estate ventures and bad loans to apartment developers, caused North Carolina Federal to lose $29.4 million in 15 months.' Why "would" in the first sentence? The first sentence is mostly repeated as part of the second sentence anyway.
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 23:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "relegate the speedway into a testing facility": usage is normally "relegate [something] to", or "downgrade [something] into", not "relegate into".
  • Fixed. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "grabbing a fireplace poker and proceeding to destroy a portrait of her according to court records". The source has "grabbed a fireplace poker and destroyed a portrait of her, court records show". This is too closely paraphrased.
  • Edited. Let me know if this needs to be tweaked further. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning oppose. The above points are taken from a fairly random skim through the article; if I can find these issues on a quick look I think the article needs a pass for paraphrasing and a copyedit. I'm not going to suggest withdrawal, since I have not read the article thoroughly, but if the issues really are throughout the article I think it's going to be time-consuming to fix them, and a withdrawal and later resubmission might be the right next step. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:54, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hey! Sorry for the late response; I was out at State Championships for my club swim team. Happy that at least someone looked through it after it being so dormant for a while. Thank you for the review; I'm very sorry to hear that the paraphrasing and copyediting standards aren't up to par. If I had a struggle with anything, it's that; but I've been trying to improve it in general. I'll do my best to make the necessary edits and source additions and hopefully strike down the oppose. I've made some of the edits mentioned; hope the paraphrasing issue is better. Will get back to it as I've got to prepare for the next day of State Championships. Feel free to give this a second look to see if my changes have indeed addressed your concerns. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 04:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No worries about the speed of response; you're faster than some! I'm going to wait and see what other reviewers think and will revisit if they feel the problems are addressed. I think the article might benefit from a third party copyedit, perhaps by WP:GOCE; and you might find it worthwhile to look back through the sourcing and see if there are other cases where a reviewer might feel the text does not accurately reflect the source material. I haven't conducted a full source spotcheck, but as noted by FrB.TG above one needs to be done before the article can be promoted, so you might want to get ahead of any problems that review might find. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:47, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note edit

This has been open for nearly three weeks and has yet to show any sign of moving towards a consensus to promote. Unless it attracts considerable movement towards this over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:54, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Hello, and thanks for the note. I've got a lot in the next coming weeks, with high school finals coming up in probably the most important semester with my high school career, along with other swimming things I need to take care of. With that said, I think it's best to archive this now so I have no time pressure to fix the copyediting issues in the article, resubmitting when time allows me. Will this be all right? I think it'll lead to a stronger article. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 03:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@WP:FAC coordinators: Gog the Mild (talk) 06:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good choice. Might I suggest making use of the resources at WP:FAM, WP:PR and/or WP:GOCE before bringing it back? In any case, the usual two-week wait will apply. FrB.TG (talk) 07:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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