Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars/archive5

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 18:49, 16 January 2013 [1].

Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars edit

Nominator(s): Khanassassin ☪ 19:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been here at FAC many times, and always failed; the first time I nominated it was when I promoted it to GA, still a novice editor, who didn't know what a FA truly is. After editing on Wikipedia for a longer time, I learned how to create FAs, for example Ed, Edd n Eddy. Although latter nominations of this article weren't as negatively received as the early ones, they weren't positively received either. So after even more improvement, and a great copy-edit by the Guild of Copy Editors' Miniapolis and fellow gamer JimmyBlackwing, I'm completely sure this is a FA.

Thank you, Khanassassin ☪ 19:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comment good work overall, but a few clarifications are still needed, eg "Leaving the cafe, he sees a journalist (Nico) photographing the scene.", who is leaving from the cafe? (Actually, both of the men leave this cafe, but you still need to explain).--Tomcat (7) 11:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've explained that "George" is the one who sees. Could you please specify exactly which parts of the plot need clarification? --Khanassassin ☪ 14:58, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Should the cities, eg "Marib", be linked? Or are they fictional?--Tomcat (7) 11:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The only non-fictional locations are the actual countries and Paris. The rest, Lochmarne, Marib, etc., all fictional. :)

More comments
From the "Gameplay" section:
"by selecting from multiple commands." - shouldn't that be simply "by selecting multiple commands"? Also perhaps replace "multiple" with "various" (sounds better imho)
- replaced "multiple" with "various", but kept the "from". You choose from various commands, eg look at, pick up, interact with. You choose one of these, so it's from. "By selecting multiple commands" sounds like you select more of them at once. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but I think it's so.
Can you also use keyboards or just mouse or gamepad?
- No keyboard. Just the two.
"George must collect various objects which can then be used with other collectible objects, parts of the scenery, or with other people in order to solve puzzles and progress in the game." - many errors here. "which can then be used" - weak wording, perhaps which can be pieced together, or something like that. The wording beginning with "parts of the scenery" is odd
- I'm sorry, but I don't find any of this as weak wording...
  - So you think "its prose is engaging, even brilliant, and of a professional standard"--Tomcat (7) 12:51, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - OK, I changed it a bit, I think it reads better now. :)
"the player gets a description and clues" - why is description in singular?
- Oh. It's done now, I fixed it.
Skipping next section
From the Development section:
" (after 1992's Lure of the Temptress and 1994's then-upcoming, Beneath a Steel Sky)" - this part can be merged with the sentence. For example, "After working on.... Charles Cecil stated in an interview..."
- I simply removed the brackets, I think it reads better than if it would be put in the beginning of the sentence.
  - Not really. Please read this sentence aloud.--Tomcat (7) 12:51, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - The problem is if the beginning of the sentence would read "After working on LotT and BaSS...", it would sound as if work on BaSS was already finished, but it wasn't.
      - Anyway, the sentence was now split.
" a reason he thought the Knights Templar an ideal subject.[8]" - something is missing here? Would be an ideal...?
- Yeah, heh. Sorry, it's fixed now.
"(which used a question-and-answer conversation system)" - I don't see a reason why this statement is in brackets.
- Sorry, it's fixed now.
"The game uses the Virtual Theatre engine,[16] previously used for Lure of the Temptress and Beneath a Steel Sky.[17]" - to avoid repetition, perhaps "As is the case with...,"
- OK.
In the last paragraph of that section, why is "Beneath a Steel Sky" linked?
- Oops. The link's removed now.
"were released in September 2, 2010" - replace in with on (as exact date)
- Done.
Ok, that's all for now.--Tomcat (7) 16:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From the Reception section:
"Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars – Director's Cut also received praise" - I would delink the game and just pipe-link "also received praise"
- Done.
" iOS versions" - are there different versions?
- Yes - Wii, DS, PC, Mac and Android.
Overall this seciton is fine
From the Listings section:
" #4" should be spelt out
- Done.
From the Legacy section:
Do we really need to add 6 in-line citations after one simple statement?
- The more links the better. If just one publication would say that The Da Vinci Code was influenced/carried similarities to Broken Sword, it wouldn't be notable. But if there's a lot of them, then it is, so I added them all. They all make the same claim, so there's no need for quoting what each and every one of them said.
From the Future film section:
"silver screen" - sounds rather glossy, simplify
- Done.
"the series was already successful, meaning a film would not be necessary" - suggest "the series was so successful that a film would not be necessary"
- Done, but slightly differently.
"Cecil believed if the film would be bad, it could only damage the series" - believed could be replaced with, eg, meant, thought. "Would be bad", a bit childish, perhaps: "would be proven as a failure"
- Done.
"it could only damage the series" - damage is weak in this case. Perhaps damage its reputation?
- Done.
Several mistakes and odd wordings in this sections, eg "and that he was re-writting the game to "make it work as a film treatment" - comma missing ahead "and"
- Done with ", and re-writting the game into a film"
or "In August 2012, Cecil said that he was Revolution are trying to", section needs a clean-up--Tomcat (7) 12:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Done.

Comments

"for Broken Sword in 1992" I though this game was "Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars", if you are referring to the game series, provide a link per WP:REPEATLINK
- It's for the game, not the series, so I'll simply say "for the game in 1992".
"is serious in tone" does that represent a neutral point of view
- No, Cecil said that was his intention in all of his games, and many reviews/articles say so to.
Unlink "animated films" per WP:OVERLINK
- Done.
Same goes for "2D", "mouse", "gamepad", "puzzle", "player character", "Ireland", "Scotland"
- Done.
"with sales totaling one million copies by the mid-1990s" not very good prose at all here to be honest, change to "with over one million copies being sold by the mid-1990s" for clearer prose
- Done, just that I said "around" rather than "over" - Cecil, and other sources as well, say either "around one million" or just "one million.
Not the best prose in "all part of the", would suggest changing to "all of which are part of the"
- I wrote, "collectively know as the Broken Sword series," I think it sounds nice.
Link "Paris" upon first mention after lede as well per WP:REPEATLINK
- Done.
The non-free rationale for the plot section needs expanding per WP:NFCC. How does the image help the reader's understanding, would right now suggest removing, unless its rationale is expanded completely
- Done.
Check for consistency in some references; why is in ref. 20, "App Store" not in italics, while in ref. 21 it is, please check for concerns like that
- OK, I'm finished with this now.
Don't "shout" in reference titles
- OK. :)

More to come later. TBr and ley 23:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reflecting on what TBrandley said, "iOS versions"? Wii, DS, PC, and Android do not run on iOS. I don't think being based on that version = that version. « Ryūkotsusei » 20:24, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What I wanted to say with "iOS versions" is that they received the most praise. Very positive, you're not going to find a score for the version below 80% percent, the average grade being 90-100&, while the DS/Wii versions were more 80%, with the PC, Mac and Android version receiving little, though still positive, reviews (in fact, there's not a single review for the Mac version, which isn't weird, because Mac doesn't support too many games). So, yes, what I wanted to say is "Wii/DS etc. reviews were positive, while the iOS versions were highly acclaimed." For now, I only tracked down only two reviews for the Android version - they're both "acclaiming", but you can't call the whole version acclaimed based on two reviews. --Khanassassin ☪ 20:55, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Axem's comments moved to talk page. --Khanassassin ☪ 13:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All comments addressed, looks good. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:14, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Brief review from SandyGeorgia

~~Oppose~~ for now: Because the length of this review suggests that this article was not prepared for FAC, I looked at one section, mid-article. Samples only, this list is not exhaustive:

Comments moved to talk page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:05, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Second visit from SandyGeorgia

Thanks for pinging me, Khanassassin, and for working quickly on issues raised. This is another random, partial check-- not a complete review:

Comments moved to talk page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:07, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So, overall, progress has been made, but more attention to prose is needed; bringing in a non-gamer to copyedit might be the best approach. Good luck! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:48, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Third visit from SandyGeorgia;

Comments moved to talk page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:09, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Have you had any luck in locating an independent copyeditor? Not there yet, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are no signatures on the responses above (now moved), which makes it very hard to tell who said what, and who is resonding to this FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:59, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Because I see that User:JimmyBlackwing has performed an independent copyedit, [2] and because I don't have time to evaluate the article further due to the holidays, I am striking my oppose. Good luck here! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Khanassassin. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments -- I made a few random comments, all of which were resolved and can now be found on the talk page. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 18:21, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.