Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Blue Iguana

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 21:45, 1 April 2008.

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Blue Iguana

Self-Nominator I'm nominating this article for featured article because I have worked hard on it off and on for the past 6 months, rewriting it from a non-referenced Start Page to what it is today. The Blue Iguana is one of the rarest animals in the world and is a success story in that it was brought back from the brink of extintion within a decade. Although Critically Endangered its future is looking better. I have carefully checked my facts in the article against published sources and have had input from several scientists who work with this species or other Cyclura species, including feedback from the scientist who's genetic research renamed the Latin binomial nomenclature for this animal. It has been rated as a Good Article and recently went through a Peer Review from other Wiki Editors. I feel it's ready to be Featured.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:24, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

• Support. I peer reviewed this article quite recently, and I'm not surprised at all to see this nom here so quickly. All suggestions have been remarkably implemented. bibliomaniac15 Midway upon life's journey... 21:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

• Comments I added one image and fixed some of the placement per WP:MOS#Images; please make sure that left-aligned images don't separate text and headers. One issue still present: I believe your use of the Quotation template in Causes of decline is incorrect per WP:MOSQUOTE. The quotation box is for pull quotes and other similar styles, while you're using for block quoting (i.e. directly within the normal flow of the prose as an indented quote) incorrectly. According to MOSQUOTE, block quotes must be 4+ lines or multiple paragraphs in length. Either remove the quotation box and turn the quote in to regular quoting style (just quotation marks), or make it a true pull quote or epigraph by disconnecting it from the rest of the text. Otherwise it looks great, nice work! VanTucky 00:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I tried to fix it, but don't like the way it looks now...can you point me to where I can make it a true "Pull Quote"? I was attempting to give more emphasis on that sentence by setting it apart from the paragraph...as just regular quoted text I think it looks a bit disjointed. Thanks for that additional picture! It's great and the Iguana in it is a dead ringer for a male Cuban/Cayman Hybrid that I own!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 04:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
    • I'll add a pull quote of it. Thanks for your work, VanTucky 20:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
• Comment

• that,"the species is nearly extinct, the people say since 1925 the "guanas"[sic] have become so scarce that it is no longer worth their while to hunt them." - period belongs outside the quote marks per Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Quotation marks. A space needed after "that,".

Fixed

• "from over 45 different plant species" - "different" is redundant

Fixed

• "over the last 25 years" - "past" is better

Fixed

• "was created in order to determine" - "in order" is redundant

Fixed

• "unique to the islands - yet there" - wrong dash per WP:DASH

Fixed, I think

• An image caption should only end with a full-stop if it forms a complete sentence.

Fixed

• Single years that shouldn't be linked

Fixed

• Non-breaking spaces are needed between numerical and non-numerical elements, eg. "25 years", "65–90 days"

Fixed

• Hyphens needed for compound adjectives, eg. "large scale release"

Fixed

• Inconsistent number formatting, eg, "15 animals remained", "twenty-one eggs". Numerals are generally used for numbers over nine.

Fixed, It was "one to tewnty-one"; I made it "1-21"

• English speaking countries generally don't require linking.

Fixed

• "20–30 inches(51–76 cm)" - space needed

Fixed

• Some dates in the footnotes need linking.

Fixed

• Units of measure only need linking once. Epbr123 (talk) 11:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Fixed, it was part of the conversion template.

All fixed. Epbr123 (talk) 19:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Old comments from ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 15:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• Comments regarding images:
  • Image:Grand Cayman Blue Iguana.jpg seems questionable and may be from a Cayman Islands Government site (and not a government production, although lower resolution at that site is a good thing). The license tag indicates that the author has released it under GFDL. As the author, Frederic James Burton, is a professional, I’m not comfortable that this is really the case.
    • I have it on good authority (Burton, himself) that Burton uploaded that image as User:BIRP; I believe the present image is/was his second attempt. Burton is the Director of the Blue Iguana Recovery Programme and that animal in question is/was one of the founding stock for the breeding line. It can be identified by the beads in the nuchal crest. If you mouse-over the picture on the government site it gives credit to Burton.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 03:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks, that seems a reasonable explanation. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 03:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Image:BLUEIGUANA.jpg is actually licensed under CC 2.0 (see link from Flickr page), not CC 1.0, as it is currently tagged. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 03:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
    • I'll attempt to retag the image. As a side note, whomever comes up with those ridiculously worded templates governing images needs to be kneecapped as they can be a pain in the ass to figure out without a law degree. I'm glad you keep an eye on that sort of thing ElCobbola...this is not the first time you've helped me out!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 03:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Couldn't agree more; the templates are largely garbage. ;) ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 03:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
        • I think, I got it...let me know if I need to change anything else, sir! Thanks again for being the image guru!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 03:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
          • Sigh, this is what I get for staying up so late. I was looking up licenses and I don't think we can use the image, as it's a CC with a non-commercial and no derivatives condition. See the "Non-free Creative Commons licenses" section on this page. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 04:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

• Comments

Issues resolved, Ealdgyth - Talk 22:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• • http://www.caymannetnews.com/bracker.php?news_id=1170&start=0&category_id=7 gives a page not found error
    • Yes. I got that when I checked the links but when I clicked on it it went to the article, then today it wouldn't...I found where that sneaky Caymanian newspaper hid it and it's back.
  • http://www.kingsnake.com/westindian/metazoa10.html what makes this a reliable site? I don't see sources listed on the pages.
    • It's a cite for a simple translation of the Latin and Greek words which compose the scientific name for Cyclura. The author is a Catholic Franciscan priest and is fluent in both languages, unless you think I do not need a source for the part which is a Greek language translation.(My own Latin is fluent, but my Greek is not) As for reliability, he is a naturalist and his location and ministry gives him access to photograph and observe firsthand much of the flora and fauna of the West Indies. I do not use him to cite anything else in the article, although he has given permission to upload his photographs in other articles I've worked on concerning this family of lizards.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 18:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Am I correct in assuming that http://www.caymannetnews.com/index.php is the web site of the Cayman Islands newspaper?
    • Yes.
  • Current ref 14 (Blair, Dabid "West indain Iguanas of the Genus...") what's the publication for that article?
    • It's in the ref if you look at the source, the template was not displaying it in the references section, I think it is fixed now.
  • Current ref 19 (Alberts, Allison the Grand Cayman Blue Iguana Species Recovery Plan) is missing publisher information.
    • It's in the ref if you look at the source, the template was not displaying it in the references section, I think it is fixed now. I went with a new template
  • Current ref 27 (Wissman, Margaret "In Search of the Grand Cayman...") doesn't have issue and page number information. Not sure if that journal gives issue numbers?
    • It's in the ref if you look at the source, the template was not displaying it in the references section. That journal gives the information and the hard copy is sitting next to my desk. I think it is fixed now.

Links checked out fine with the tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to review and point out my errors.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 19:02, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Still some copy-editing to do; here are random examples from one small part. Please get the whole thing looked at.

• "thick ringed tail characteristic" --> "thick-ringed tail". Then "name ... name".
• "The Blue Iguana's closest relatives are the Cuban Iguana (C. nubila nubila) on Cuba, and the Andros Island Iguana (C. cychlura cychlura) in the Bahamas, all having apparently diverged from a common ancestor some three million years ago." Reword so it couldn't possibly be the countries that have diverged. "All" is odd after a list of just two. Perhaps "all three species ...".
• Why are common units linked???
• "Although not known to be arboreal the Blue Iguana has ..."—Where should the comma go?
• "The male is larger than the female by one third of its body size." The body size of which: male or female? It makes a difference.
• Great pic of the yawn—could almost be a featured pic, if they don't mind the blur at the bottom.
• " As Blue Iguanas have only a few rod cells they have poor vision in low-light conditions." --> "As Blue Iguanas have few rod cells, they have poor vision in low-light conditions."

Tony (talk) 14:54, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to look. I fixed all of these. I'll see if I can find someone else to take a look at it.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 16:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

• Comments
  • "it was reclassified as a separate species due to genetic differences discovered in 2000." seems to conflict with "Frederic Burton reclassified the Blue Iguana as a distinct species in 2004"
  • Not really, the differences were discovered in 2000, it took four years of research, peer review, verification, etc for it to be published in 2004.

The text does not make that clear.

• • Who is Frederic Burton?
    • Frederic Burton is the Director of the BIRP and has the most hands-on experience working with this species on Grand Cayman. Yes, I have considered writing a seperate article on him, but because he hasn't been a featured character on the Simpsons or family Guy, it will probably be deleted.
  • As this is a "scientific article" should the measurements be SI first? Wikipedia:MOSNUM#Which_system_to_use

I have run into this with a few other elements of researching this piece (and others of est Indian Cyclurids); half the sources use metric, half the sources use what's normal.

• • Can you get a better picture for Grand Cayman? Perferably one showing it on a world map. The current picture shows all of the cayman islands
  • I'll try!
  • Regarding the quote, is it in the middle of a sentence? Shouldn't it start and end with ... if it is? If it isn't in the middle of a sentence why doesn't it have a capitolized first letter and period?
  • Fixed
  • This sentence is about the 3rd time restating these issues: "The wild population of Blue Iguanas had been reduced from a near island-wide distribution to a barely viable, increasingly fragmented remnant owing to the combined influences of habitat conversion, hunting, introduction of non-native predatory species, and road kill."
  • I feel it's necesarry, it's in the lead, and its in the section as a summary of all the factors contributing to the decline before leading into conservation.I think it is needed to tie it all together.
    • I don't like reading anything more than 2x in a Wikipedia article, there is no reason. Please try and clean up repletion wherever possible. Also it seems as if you are using it to form a 'conclusion' section which is not normal practice.
      • I think this is fixed now.
  • "BIRP maintains these hatchlings for two years before their release into the wild". Can the fact in this sentence be added to one of the above where "head starting" is used?
  • I've considered that, but it will turn into a run-on sentence...I'll take another look at it.
    • Changing "to an age" to "to the age of two" will not make it a run on sentence.
      • Fixed
  • The whole "Blue Iguana Recovery Programme" section seems like it needs some work. Items seem repeated or out of order. ex: "Restored sub-populations are already present in two non-contiguous areas—the Salina Reserve and the Queen Elizabeth II Botanic Park." comes after Salina is already mentioned.
  • If you can be a little more specific I can work on it.
    • Examples:
      • "head-starting them to an age where their chance of survival in the wild is high, and using these animals to rebuild a series of wild sub-populations in protected, managed natural areas" that sentence explains head starting, and then there is another sentence.. which explains head starting
        • Fixed
      • "BIRP maintains these hatchlings for two years before their release into the wild" is again another repetition of the "head starting idea", but it comes after other unrelated sentences.
      • Fixed
      • It seems like this section has pretty decent overlap with the last paragraph of "Endangered status"
      • The section starts out mention head starting, goes into where the Iguanas are then goes back to head starting.
        • I made it a footnote.
  • -Ravedave (talk) 16:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the input.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 16:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose Both Image:Yawniguana.jpg and Image:BLUEIGUANA.jpg have non-commercial provisions to their CC licenses at Flickr (the latter also has a no derivates provision). Per WP:IUP, WP:TAG and Jimbo, we can’t use these. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 15:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Removed both pictures. I have requests out for better pictures of purebred animals.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 16:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks, Mike. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 16:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• comment "although it can breed with this subspecies and produce fertile offspring." redundant, I think - if it couldn't, they would be different species by definition Jimfbleak (talk) 19:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
  • You're on the right track, but, C. n. caymanensis is a subspecies of a different species. The DNA phylogeny is what changed the classification.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 19:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• Support Comments - ok, I'll give it the once over....notes below. If you don't agree feel free to explain why not. :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• Generally MOS suggests lead to have 2-3 paras. reading it I felt para 3 segued into par 4 nicely and see no reason why they can't be combined.
  • Done!
• In the Taxonomy section paras 1 & 2, and 3 & 4 can be combined with each other for flow. Also avoids the two paras that start with "The Blue Iguana...."
  • Done!
• Anatomy and morphology - anatomy reminds me of livers and internal organs, why use jargon when you can use the plain description?
  • Done! (I guess anatomy and morphology sounded better...now I'll have to revisit the other Cyclura articles and fix this!)
• First 3 paras can all go together in this section too.
  • Done!

Overall, the prose is pretty good, though the profusion of small paras is not altogether pleasant on hte eyes. If you could combine a few in the lower few sections it would scan better. Nearly there though. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• • Thanks again! --Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 23:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Old comments from GrahamColm^Talk 13:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comments for now.
  • As they are not capable of creating liquid urine more concentrated than their bodily fluids, This is confusing, firstly, urine is a liquid by definition so the liquid is redundant. Do the produce, (a better word) any urine at all? I don't think they do. If so this phrase could be reduced to As they cannot produce urine..
    • They discharge solid urates,I think it would be more confusing to phrase it otherwise.
      • As do birds and spiders, I would re-phrase it. Urine is urine. --GrahamColm^Talk 13:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
        • Changed.
  • Usage areas - does this mean territory?
    • Yes, I changed it.
  • Road kill are dead animals at the side of a road so, Road kill is an increasing cause of mortality - dead animals do not cause mortality; they are a result of mortality.
    • I put in "automobiles and motorscooters" but hope some eco-warrior doesn't make the leap to say it's greenhouse gases that are killing them.  :)
  • (AZA) designated the genus Cyclura as their highest priority - highest priority what, conservation effort?
    • I put in conservation for now, but really in the case of 4 species it was beyond conservation. It was their highest priority , period. Three species, C. lewisi, C. collei, and C. pinguis were on the verge of extinction with less than 20 animals left of each species.
  • through DNA analysis and blood work - the (ugly) expression blood work usually refers to the analysis of blood for signs of disease.
    • "Hematology"?
      • No, not really, I would simply delete and blood work.--GrahamColm^Talk 13:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
        • Gone!
  • The program contains only pure specimens, as these hybrids - Now the program??
    • I had that in there originally, (it may have been "now" or "currently") some other wordsmith had me remove it, either here or at peer review.
  • bloodline exchange - genetic exchange would be better, or perhaps cross-breeding.
    • "Cross-breeding" works!
  • breeding the Blue Iguana in captivity over a period of seven years - the period of is redundant.
    • Gone
  • population remains a single genetic unit - a single genetic unit is a gene??
    • I changed it to "single genetic management unit"

GrahamColm^Talk 11:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

• • Thanks for taking the time to read it and to provide input.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 13:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support yes compelling indeed, (thanks for the word). All my concerns have been addressed. --GrahamColm^Talk 13:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support Well written, very well referenced, and compelling. I made some minor copyedits and have three comments that should be addressed (but I still support this FAC).
  • Areas in acres are given in conversion to metric units as square kilometers in several places, but as hectares in one place. I think hectares makes more sense here as the areas are all quite small (0.6 acre usually, also 88 acres), but these should be consistent.
  • fixed
  • In the "Causes of decline" section the exact same quotation from Chapman Grant is given twice - once in the text and once in a text box. Surely this only needs to be in the article once?
    • Yes, I left it in as the pull quote.
  • In the "Blue Iguana Recovery Programme" section we are told twice in the space of three sentences that 1000 individuals are needed. Does this really need to be repeated?
    • I removed the second mention.

Hope these help, and I am rooting for the recovery of the Blue Iguana - thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your valuable input and comments!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 13:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.