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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Biscayne National Park/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 17:51, 23 March 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Biscayne National Park edit

Biscayne National Park (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Acroterion (talk) 17:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I visited Biscayne National Park briefly in November 2012, and realized that it had a fascinating history and situation. How many national parks in the US are 95% water, have a nuclear power plant just outside the boundary, are regularly whacked by hurricanes, were pirates' lairs, have four distinct ecosystems, and were the playground of the rich and famous? The version I started with [2] didn't tell that story. The developed version has been peer-reviewed by Brianboulton, whose comments were encouraging, and I've had the help and advice of MONGO, an experienced writer of FAs on protected areas. I've done a check for copied public-domain material that was once prevalent in these sorts of articles, and I'm confident that none remains. Acroterion (talk) 17:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Check grammar on Geography captions
  • Where possible, use a specific PD tag rather than the general USGov tag - for example, the "safety valve" image should use {{PD-USGov-DOC-NOAA}}. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:48, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tags updated. I've removed an elderly low-resolution image that was more decorative than otherwise (and not very much at that) and replaced it with the hurricane landfall. I've never been that enamored of the infobox sunset image on the same grounds, and am thinking of replacing it with an underwater view. Acroterion (talk) 15:18, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*Comments - I read this through once on my phone while at the gym...will jot any queries below - looking promising....Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Try to amalgamate the text in the Bay waters section into 2-3 paras. Might rejig the order of some of the sentences to get a good flow. nice work.
I've rearranged it into two paragraphs that move from generalities to specifics. Acroterion (talk) 03:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Same with Coral reef and offshore waters (2 paras this time)
Did that, then the last paragraph looked short, so I've expanded to note that the deeper waters offshore are designated as a marine sanctuary. Acroterion (talk) 03:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Try to avoid standalone sentences, like the last one in Climate - can we tack it on somewhere (or expand it?)
I've expanded it, as the subject deserves more attention in the article. I've avoided projections past 2060, as better data will be coming out this year on the rate of rise. Acroterion (talk) 03:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the Exotic species section, I'd remove the first sentence and replace it with the second para's first sentence, which repeats the material but is more precise.
Done. Acroterion (talk) 03:01, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I think I am ready to (cautiously) support on comprehensiveness and prose - I don't see any clangers prosewise but I guess we'll see what others find. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Received a request to review this candidacy. Good structure, well referenced. A few suggestions:

  • The official park map should be US Government public domain, right? Would be very useful to see a visual outline of the park's boundaries (linked for convenience, can be modified for article display).
    • The map's already in the article, down in the Activities section. I'll look at rearranging the images to get it up in the geography section. Acroterion (talk) 01:08, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Rearranged to put the map up top. Acroterion (talk) 02:19, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article introduction gives a misleading impression that the only endangered species within the park boundaries are cacti and palms. One of the more interesting and significant things about this park is the variety of endangered species that live there, including the American Crocodile (definitely endangered, and an impressive creature--one of the world's largest crocodilians). Rather than listing specific endangered species, might be better to provide an estimate of the scope and variety.
    • After some thought I went ahead and listed the most common or well-known endangered animals by species in the intro, leaving aside the woodrats, whales (hardly ever seen) and corals for the body of the article, and mentioned crocodiles and alligators. Crocodiles are threatened, not endangered. Acroterion (talk) 01:29, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • If I recall correctly, south Florida has the only habitats in the world where alligators and crocodiles coexist. Don't have a source for that unfortunately (learned it many years ago) but should be easily verifiable if true. Worth mentioning even though alligators are relatively uncommon within park grounds.
    • I've mentioned that they coexist and expanded a bit, though I'm cautious of overstating or misstating abundance. There are a lot of gators just inland, like everywhere else in Florida, and there is a fair concentration of crocs at the power plant, which they find congenial. The Park Service describes gators as "uncommon" and crocs as "occasional." Acroterion (talk) 01:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are there endangered insects and endangered fish in the park?
  • Might be useful to organize the bird population in terms of migratory patterns. Florida is the winter migratory location for a variety of North American bird species and the summer migratory location for several South American and Mesoamerican species. Since it's one of the few major land masses in this part of the world at that latitude that isn't arid, the variety of species is incredible. Could be good to provide an indication of which season various species would be present, as well as a mention of the nonmigratory species (the Snail Kite comes to mind because it's a common site in the Everglades, although am unsure whether apple snails would be found around Biscayne Bay).
    • A discussion of the tropical/North American/migrant overlap would probably go best in the first section under Ecology. I've got a Park Service checklist [3] that is just that: I'll look for a source that gives a little context. It appears that snail kites aren't present in Biscayne proper, but common eiders, Bahama Mockingbirds and Antillean Nighthawks have been seen. Acroterion (talk) 00:49, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've added a discussion of migrant birds to the beginning of the ecology section, noting the differences between northbound and southbound migration patterns, and noting the overlap of nearctic and neotropical ecozones in South Florida in general. I've stayed away from discussing rare birds. There are lots, and I think it's enough to note that there are unusual opportunities to see rare species. I'm hesitant to discuss who's there and when, as the sheer number of species makes for a very selective list that I think would assume too much weight compared to other fauna. Acroterion (talk) 17:08, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • A handful of phrases could use a little proofreading polish. One of the facts most readers would be unfamiliar with is that "island" and "key" or "cay" are essentially interchangeable terms in this part of the world (the latter two originated from the Taino people of the Bahamas). Might be too much of a digression to give the etymology, so not sure how to rephrase "The largest key or island is..." which is a turn of phrase that could easily give the impression that keys and islands are different. Subordinate commas might solve that dilemma. Another much simpler phrasing that needs minor editing is, "as well as an occasional crocodiles...".
    • Fixed the occasional crocodiles. "Elliott Key is the largest island in the park" is a rephrasing consistent with usage elsewhere, which I think makes clear that it's a local term for islands. I don't see a graceful way to work in the etymology. I've made a few other copyedits and will have another go tomorrow. Acroterion (talk) 02:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, great work. Mainly could use a bit of expansion about the ecology. [Disclaimer: as a basically inactive editor this is more of a list of suggestions rather than a list of conditions for supporting the nomination; can't guarantee a followup here at the FAC but will respond if queried at user talk]. Durova412 03:16, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking it over. I'll go through each item in detail as I address them, but as a quick appreciative response (back-to-front), I too had some trouble deciding when to use key/cay/island. I'll go back and look them over for improvement. There's surprisingly little data on alligators in the park (as opposed to a mile or so inland), mostly because alligators avoid salty water and are at best uncommon in the park proper, and I removed some material from an earlier version where I was getting a little to far into my personal ideas of what should be gator versus croc habitat and why. I'll revisit the subject and sources. As for endangered flora/fauna, I'll re-review and work over the lead, trying to avoid listiness. The Schaus' Swallowtail butterfly is a fairly big deal. I hadn't considered a discussion of migrants, so I'll see what I can find - there are season-by-season checklists. Acroterion (talk) 03:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the brackish water makes a difference. Am more familiar with the Everglades upstream than with Biscayne Bay in that regard. So some of these suggestions are speculative. Excellent work. :) Durova412 20:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (I did do some edits to this article, but 99% of the effort was from Acroterion)...I'm fully satisfied that the article is comprehensive, authoritative and constitutes our best quality of work. This isn't a high profile national park like Yellowstone or Yosemite, so I really appreciate Acroterion bringing a less well known protected area to this level. Thanks!--MONGO 18:27, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per the above discussion. Suggestions addressed. Excellent article. Durova412 02:18, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source spotcheck

  • Cite 11 - Good
  • Cite 16 - Good
  • Cite 25 - Good
  • Cite 46 - Good
  • Cite 79 - Good

I support on sourcing. LittleJerry (talk) 00:57, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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