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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bazy Tankersley/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13:42, 24 April 2015 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Bazy Tankersley edit

Nominator(s): Montanabw(talk) 08:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about one of the most significant Arabian horse breeders in modern times, and an individual who also had a fascinating early career as a newspaper publisher in the heart of the McCarthy era of the 1950s. The article is GA-class and since that time has had a peer review by User:Wehwalt, who made many good suggestions. I welcome further comment and assessment. Montanabw(talk) 08:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support based on the peer review I did; my suggestions seem to have been implemented. Well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:03, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • Be consistent in whether you include location, retrieval date and publisher for periodicals, and if so how these are formatted (COMMENT)
    • If you tell me what formatting you're going for I can tell you which don't match - FN2 is different from FN17 is different from FN18 is different from FN28 is different from FN14... Nikkimaria (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I fixed some, but other of these periodicals were accessed from two different web sites, notably the Arizona Daily Star ones... Legacy.com preserves Obituaries even if they are dumped from the newspaper's web site. (I just found that out with my own father, the paper will dump the obit, but Legacy.com will keep it for $80. My father-in-laws vanished because of that ...sheesh...) I made everything "cite web" so it all looks the same - some cites people have argued should be "cite news" - it's a pain because I got them all off the web, but... Montanabw(talk) 07:43, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Sorry, but within cite web there are several potentially correct formatting options, and I still can't tell which you're going for - FN2 has location and website, FN8 has neither, FN15 has location only, FN18 is missing italics (this one is not correct), FN22 has just publication name but uses a different name from FN2, FN28 has publication name and website name... Having just publication name is most common by a narrow margin, is that what you would like to use? You can still flag Legacy.com refs within that. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:55, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • Yes, simple is best, if complete and adequate for FAC. I suspect that the switchover of reflinks can account for some discrepancies, I let the machine do some, while others were created by humans. I think some of the others came from requests during the GAN, but I can't recall. I am not particularly attached to any one format (which is kind of obvious) I guess, just what works. I've tried to resolve the inconsistencies you flagged by removing location and publisher where not really relevant, let me know if there are more or if they are un-fixed. I don't know what to do with the Legacy.com one, it was published in the Daily Star but only exists now at Legacy... your call there, I guess. Montanabw(talk) 22:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't need retrieval dates for GBooks (COMMENT)
    • It's not a matter of it going online or off - retrieval date is useful for finding old or archived copies, which isn't possible in this case. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ahneman or Ahneman-Rudsenske? (FIXED)
  • FN16: something's going wrong with the template here, there's visible code and missing italics (FIXED)
  • There's a separate parameter in the template for agency - these shouldn't be in the author parameter (FIXED)
  • Time or TIME? (FIXED)
  • Use a consistent format for retrieval date (COMMENT)
  • Fn23 is missing italics on publication name, same with FN40 (FIXED)
  • FN29 and 30 are the same source but are not formatted the same (FIXED)
    • Not fixed, now 30 and 31, one has publisher other doesn't. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN52 should not have italics (OK)
  • Be consistent in whether you abbreviate state names, and if so what abbreviation format you use (WHERE?)
  • Don't mix cited and uncited sources in Sources (Comment)
  • Parkinson 2013 is missing italics (OK)(FIXED)
  • Some books have publisher location, others don't. (Did I get the one fixed? I see no others) Nikkimaria (talk) 05:55, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • You may need to flag where you see inconsistencies, they seemed all consistent to me, but I clearly must have missed something. I respectfully disagree on access date on GBooks, I've seen them go on and offline, but if it's a dealbreaker, I'll toss. Anything other than the Associated Press need the "agency" parameter -- ? I don't think there are uncited sources now, save for Bazy's book she had Parkinson ghostwrite, which I think we need to include in some fashion... Montanabw(talk) 07:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@NIkkimaria:: I think I got all the deadlinks and your other fixes, let me know what I've missed. I redirected the three deadlinks to Wayback, but the cite checker is still flagging them, don't know what's up with that. Montanabw(talk) 07:43, 12 April 2015 (UTC)\[reply]

It's flagging them because you've got the links backwards: where it says "archived from the original", "the original" should be the original link (ie the one that's dead), but you've got it set up to be the archived link. If you're using the archive-url parameter, that should be the live archive link, and correspondingly url should be the dead link. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:55, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! So that's how that works. I flipped them - does it work now? Everything good there? Montanabw(talk) 22:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Remaining issues:

  • Is the LaSalle paper NewsTribune or News Tribune?
    • FIXED
  • Some periodicals are still including publishers - FN4, 11, 30, 31, 33, 47
    • OK FIXED, but I really fail to see why this matters; more obscure periodicals benefit from its inclusion, better-known ones do not, but if you insist that everything has to be exactly the same, please defend that position when the next reviewer tells me to put them all back. Montanabw(talk) 05:56, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • If you'd prefer to include publishers for all magazines but not newspapers, you can do that too. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN37 is missing retrieval date
    • FIXED
  • FN23 and 27: publication date format doesn't match that used by other refs
    • FIXED
  • Suggest including {{subscription needed|via=HighBeam}} for HighBeam refs
  • FN19 is missing author
    • FIXED
  • Fn24: date doesn't match source
    • Fixed, that was a weird one
  • Ahneman-Rudsenske and Bavaria is also a periodical, so its listing in Sources should use the same formatting
    • Meaning...what? And someone else whined that it needs to be identical to all the other sources. But OK... and see above if someone else complains...
  • Guilford comment above still left over. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:00, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Got that one

@Nikkimaria:: OK, did I get them all? (Whining, but I did it...)

Yes, good to go now. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Driveby comments from Curly Turkey edit

I know absolutely nothing about the subject. Feel free to revert any of my copyedits or to disagree with any of my comments, many of which have no bearing on whether I'll support.

That's actually perfect; I need to be sure I am writing something comprehensive to the non-horse-aficionado! Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • You refer to her both as Tankersley or as Bazy. It's best to stick with one—usually the surname, although I can see the confusion that would cause when talking about her second husband.
    • I tried to use "Tankersley" almost throughout, but there were a couple spots where it seemed clunky, particularly before her second marriage. Feel free to flag for me the spots where you think I need to swap out names, or you are welcome to tweak those yourself if you wish; indeed, the only spot it's critical is probably where we are discussing both Tankersleys! Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very hairsplitting, but I might drop some of those middle names & initials in the lead
    • I dropped a couple, was just being too lazy to do a piped link, her father and mother, though, their middle names mean much - dynasties and all... Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tankersley returned to Tucson in the 1970s. In addition to horse breeding, she created an apprenticeship program at Al-Marah to train young people for jobs in the horse industry.: Is this supposed to imply these things happened in Tuscon?
  • who moved the Al-Marah Arabian farm name: what does it mean to move the farm name?
    • Usually farm names are attached to the land they are on, "Sunnybrook farm", "Pine tree acres" - it's interesting that she moved her "verdant oasis" name from the desert to the (not-desert) midwest, to the (very-not-desert) east coast and then back to the desert west. Can I clarify that somehow?? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tankersley was described as having "inherited a love of politics and horses, not necessarily in that order.": needs attribution
    • The source is cited at the end of the sentence. It was the author of the source, Richard Norton Smith, p. 461. I really hate saying "according to foo" statements when I can avoid them. I suppose that's a style issue, but I feel like using it for people who aren't particularly important themselves is an Argument from authority that can lead to someone saying, "so why is foo an expert" and so on... I mean, if it's a "drop dead or no support" I can put in Smith, but... (whining) Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, one problem is that a source is not the same as an attribution—the source may be quoting someone else. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Let's look at these in a chunk at the end ot the section. Montanabw(talk) 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • was the daughter of Senator Mark Hanna of Ohio: she was an only daughter?
  • believed to be partly attributed: would the intended sense somehow change if "believed to be" were dropped?
    • Hmm. You are right, it's awkward. Basically, there isn't a direct known reason, and there may have been multiple reasons, hence the weaseling... Open to ideas for rephrasing! Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Senator from Illinois ... congressman from New Mexico: I get the feeling these should be "for" rather than "from"—the "from" seems to me to indicate their place of origin, rather than the place they represent (which may not be the same place)
    • They are "from" these states. Both "for" and "from" forms are used. Sometimes "of" can work. I did change one "from" to "for" with the senator, as senators represent the entire state, but kept "from" for the Representatives, as the House districts change boundaries every ten years, so saying "for District foo" could be even more confusing. Is that OK? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I understand that, I'm just saying that "from" is open to interpretation, while "for" is not. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • So, can you live with "from" left in two spots per my rationale or...? Montanabw(talk) 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • and later claimed: not a usage I imagine would keep anyone up at night, but "claim" is one of those words to avoid
  • In 2004, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Humane Letters from the University of Arizona.; He served as a director of the Tribune Company from 1973 to 1981.: Do you really want these things out of chronological order?
    • The honorary doctorate is lumped in with her education, I pitched Tank's directorship, which isn't terribly relevant anyway. Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nothing wrong with it, but in the sentence on her second marriage (1) she gets divorced (2) her secod husband works for the Tribune in the 1970s (3) then she meets her second husband for the first time (4) then the events rejoin the chronology.
    • Pitched the directorship, does that solve the problem? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, it was never a "problem", I just have a preference for telling the story chronologically. More "give this a thought" than "please change this". Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • It's OK, it wasn't working very well anyway! 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
  • given McCormick's own complicated personal life: which we're not actually given—or have I missed it?
    • His personal life was "complicated," I don't want to bog the article down in it... two marriages, other extramarital affairs, etc. the source quotes Bazy saying "...But I was upset he took such a stand against my remarrying. I felt it was hypocritical since two women had gotten divorces to marry him." Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Noting her earlier strong affiliation with the Republican party and conservative politics, The Washington Post reported that in 2008 she voted for Barack Obama. She also supported Democratic Arizona Representative Gabrielle Giffords.: this jumps out decades before the fact
    • It was down in the "Legacy" section, but other reviewers thought it was clunky there too. Open to ideas. Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • and two daughters, Kristie Miller and Tiffany Tankersley (1970–2012): Kristie is the only of the three with no birthdate
  • At the time of her death, she had six grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.: why mention this here, and not at the time of her death?
    • Seemed to fit with her children to mention grandkids in the same place; grandkids can keep on increasing, so best to note when the number was pegged... Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "doted" on Bazy: are these scare quotes or an actual quotation? They look like the former
    • Yup, actual quotation. Was concerned that it would be viewed as a close paraphrase if I did not. Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't think it counts as close paraphrasing to use a single word that appears in a source. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm paranoid! LOL! And it's an archaic word, so I'm OK holding out for scare quotes on this one.  ;-) Montanabw(talk) 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "conspiracy to smear his reputation": needs attribution or paraphrasing
  • "simple decency and honesty" and "a shocking abuse of the spirit and intent of the First Amendment of the Constitution.": are these quotes by the Senate?
    • Yup. Source states " ... a bipartisan Senate panel later condemned her hit piece as a violation of "simple decency and honesty" and "a shocking abuse of the spirit and intent of the First Amendment of the Constitution." " Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "contrived ... to hold plaintiff up to public scorn and ridicule.": attribution
    • Again, it's sourced, see my "According to foo" discussions above. ;-) Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The two men had even been in a physical altercation.: was this before or during the events? If the latter, the past perfect should be dropped.
    • I clarified a bit: McCarthy kicked Pearson in the "groin" at a party in December 1950, that was another count in the 1951 lawsuit, but not relevant to Bazy... Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "probably the world's most prolific Arabian horse breeder.": attribution or paraphrasing needed
    • Another "Foo said" issue, but I'd be open to a rephrase, except I've stared at the article so long that I really can't think of a way to paraphrase without getting smacked for close-paraphrasing, but am open to a way to rephrase? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Can it be verified she was the world's most proloific Arabian horse breeder? That would be better than any "probably" quote. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Difficult (and SYNTH if I tried) , but found one more source making the claim. [2]. Will add and rephrase. Montanabw(talk) 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • *Raffles via his son Indraff: does the asterisk have some meaning that could be linked to?
    • FIXED. Good spotting that! I keep forgetting to note those. Added efn and sourced. Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sometimes "Double R" is quoted and sometimes not. Are the quotes necessary?
    • Not sure, what do you prefer? I can go either way. It was her own concept, "Double R" can have other meanings - ranch brands, etc. I guess I lean toward keeping because it's an odd usage. Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, whatever you do, it should be consistent (though I'd drop them, since it's capitalized anyways). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The ranch also hosted the "Straw Bale Forums": Is this the official name? If so, I imagine the quotemarks are unnecessary
  • Tankersley died on February 5, 2013. She had Parkinson's disease.: Was Parkinson's the cause of death?
    • When I put it up for FAC, I think the lead originally read " Her death in 2013 was attributed to Parkinson's disease." Someone wanted me to rephrase that. Suggestions? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Where is this? I don't see that on this page, and it's hard to give a response when I don't know what the complaint is. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Lead in this version. WAPO obit says, "Kristie Miller, confirmed the death and said her mother had Parkinson’s disease." Don't know how best to handle that? Montanabw(talk) 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant.": needs attribution
    • You are the second person to raise this particular one, so maybe I should attribute here, but not sure how to be graceful and concise. The quote in context is ""If she served on a board, you never got the feeling that democracy would enter the room," says Herman Bleibtreu, another friend and retired dean of the University of Arizona College of Liberal Arts. "If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant." So... I really don't want to give Bliebtreu's whole resume, but he's also not a famous person, so...how do you suggest I proceed? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • others earned multiple national championships over the course of her career: meaning each of them won more than once? Otherwise, the plural "championships" is sufficient and "multiple" is redundant
  • The most recent project of the foundation: "most recent" in relation to what timeline?
  • I see lots of hidden comments about stuff to add. I have no idea how important any of it is.
    • Three comments, two are "notes to self" for stuff I've been digging for more info and not finding, the third on the AHOF, probably not necessary. Want me to toss? Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there some reason you haven't used And Ride Away Singing: the Breeding Philosophy of Bazy Tankersley and the History of Al-Marah Arabians?
    • Heh, heh, because it's over $200.00 and only available from two libraries in the country [3]! I've thought about it, but haven't checked to see if they'd even consider an Interlibrary loan... and knowing Mary Jane Parkinson's work, it is apt to be heavy on discussions of bloodlines and individual horses, which is horse geek heroin to someone like me, but not necessarily to the casual reader... ;-) Montanabw(talk) 05:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 22:21, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you for your thorough review and the helpful copyedits @Curly Turkey:! I have answered your points above, and am glad to try and fix these issues. We may have a difference of opinon on the in-text attribution issue, but we can reach an agreement we both can live with, I'm sure, everything IS cited. Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, as I said above, attribution is different from citation—the citation tells else what work it appeared in but not who said it. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Of the sections you stated as needing attribution, here's how they now shake out:
  1. "inherited a love of politics and horses..." is the phrasing of the author of the work cited, I'd prefer to leave it as is.
  2. I think the two Person lawsuit quotes now clarify who said what. Better?
  3. "probably the world's most prolific Arabian horse breeder" : Redone, added source. Better? (I can toss that snippet if it's a problem)
  4. "...If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant." This is the trickiest one: I really don't know what to do here, they are quoting a colleague of hers, but he's not particularly famous in his own right; at least not in this context - he was just someone who knew her. I don't want to provoke a [according to whom?] tag by being vague, but the full attribution in HCN is kind of clunky here.
  • I think that is all the ones we need to look at. @Curly Turkey: Thoughts? Feel free to directly fiddle with the text yourself if you wish. Montanabw(talk) 05:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't want to be a hardass, but I was under the impression that in-text attribution was on e of those red lins, and WP:INTEXT seems to say so. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:06, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • You raise an interesting question and it's not being a hardass - FAC is for these tough questions! I read INTEXT to be a description of how and when one "should" do it, not a drop-dead "must do it" mandate (an inline footnote however, IS a drop-dead mandate)! ; but then, I haven't perused the talk or drama boards to see if there has been consensus debated on its meaning... Montanabw(talk) 04:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • But philosophical musing aside, I now have three of the four with an in-text attribution as well as a footnote: I did note Pearson for number two already, found two differenc tsources for #3 and reworded it, and as I looked over INTEXT and then WP:NPOV, I will acknowledge that the Bliebtreu quote (#4) is a strong statement that could be called "biased" and so it probably does fall under WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. Are those three now copacetic? Montanabw(talk) 04:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • The only question left is the Smith quote, which I really don't think needs in-text attribution given that there is a footnote immediately following. (per INLINE, I think it falls under "It is best not to clutter articles with information best left to the references. Interested readers can click on the ref..." ) To say, "Tankersley was described by Richard Norton Smith, who was the biographer of Robert R. McCormick, as having "inherited a love of politics and horses, not necessarily in that order." blech, that's yucky writing. Horrible way to start the first paragraph of a section, I'd smack myself silly for writing that dull! LOL!!! Now, if this is a drop dead oppose if I don't fix it, I am open to suggested wording that won't put the reader to sleep. But if it isn't a drop-dead, I'd really prefer not to!  :-) Montanabw(talk) 04:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • (I had to look up "copacetic"). Well, I could argue that the way around yucky writing is to rewrite the yuck out of it, but whatever, I'll buy your argument (if it were me, I might make a blockquote or something out of it, which would handle the attribution neatly). Okay, I'm going throw my support behind this article now. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 05:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SusunW edit

My comments are mostly minor edits to content:

  • This sequence is odd: Tankersley moved to Southwest with her mother and stepfather.[10] She spent part of her childhood on her mother's Rock River dairy farm in Byron, Illinois, then at a ranch owned by Simms in Albuquerque, New Mexico ... I wouldn't consider Illinois remotely to be a SW state. Possibly reverse the Illinois section and the moved to the Southwest?
  • 250,000 acres (100,000 ha) property ...acres is being used as an adjective not a noun. In the same sense that a 15-foot tree is a foot as opposed to the tree was 15 feet tall. It is either a property of 250,000 acres where the number is describing the noun acres, or a 250,000 acre property where both the number and acre are describing the property.
  • He was ten years older than was she ... I looked this up here [4] as it sounded awkward. I'm buying that it is a conjunction rather than a preposition but I think the verb and pronoun order should be reversed. He was ten years older than she was.
  • but her uncle considered Garvin Tankersley, who was from a poor Lynchburg, Virginia family, to be of unsuitable social status for Bazy,[11] and he also disapproved of her divorce. ... Sounds as if Tankersley disapproved of her divorce, as he is the last "he" mentioned. Flow would be better her uncle disapproved of her divorce and he considered ...
  • a 110 acres (45 ha) facility ... same issue as above 110-acre is an adjective for the noun facility.
  • This paragraph: Tankersley was not the only member of the McCormick family to raise Arabians in Arizona. ... while containing interesting information, does not lend to a greater knowledge of Tankersley or her horse blood lines. May want to delete it as a "side" discussion? SusunW (talk) 03:18, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good stuff to catch! I will fix, check diffs in a few hours and see if I got them. The "acres" problem is with the convert template, they actually have a parameter to fix that. (wow!) I don't know quite how to handle dear cousin Fifi; she was a very big deal in her time, but I can't connect the dots between her and Bazy, though they clearly associated. I was hoping to see if one influenced the other, but am having no luck. Moved Fifi to a sandbox. Montanabw(talk) 07:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support which I apparently failed to say before. Looks like you got them to me. Really nice piece of an important historical woman. SusunW (talk) 14:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by the Doctor edit

Lede
  • "she was raised amongst powerful Republican political figures. She was the daughter of Senator Joseph Medill McCormick. Her mother was progressive Republican Ruth Hanna McCormick, who served in the United States House of Representatives, making Tankersley a granddaughter of the late Senator Mark Hanna of Ohio. Although Tankersley was involved with conservative Republican causes as a young woman, including a friendship with Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, her progressive roots reemerged in later years; by the 21st century, she had become a strong supporter of environmental causes and backed Barack Obama for president in 2008. She became a patron of many charities. Her death in 2013 was attributed to Parkinson's disease." -seems very long for what you're trying to say here. Can you find a way to trim a bit? In the lead all I think you need to say is "Born to Republican parents, the daughter of a Senator" sort of thing or at least shorten it. Also I'd move mention of her death to the end of where you say "Upon her death" and add "from Parkinson's disease in 2013".
    • Hm. I tightened, see if you like it better now, I rearranged some things, you are right about the death bit; but her family tree is a big part of why she's notable beyond being a horse breeder - massive political and newspaper empire, ask @Wehwalt: about this, perhaps. Montanabw(talk) 08:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As a young woman, she had a journalism career, beginning at age 18 as a reporter for a newspaper published by her mother. " -shorten to At the age of 18, she began working as a reporter for a newspaper published by her mother. I think that should tell the reader it was journalism and that she was a young woman!
  • " By 1957, Al-Marah was the largest Arabian farm in the United States. " -no article given its notability?
    • Confused by this question? I can double check that Edwards is the source for that, Google Books doesn't have text online, but User:Ealdgyth has a copy of it (I think) if you need independent verification. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Oh! Why no separate article about Al-Marah? Because Bazy WAS Al-Marah (L'etat c'est moi )! Similarly, see, e.g. Sheila Varian. There is arguably a case for a spin-off but guess who has to find the time to write it?  ;-) (Later, maybe) Montanabw(talk) 08:10, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Personal
  • was described as having "...inherited a love of politics and horses, not necessarily in that order." -attribute.
    • I did, the footnote is to the Richard Norton Smith book; that one is online. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "United States Senator" - pipe as just Senator.
  • "When Tankersley was four, her father died. His death was a suicide,[8] believed to be in part linked to his defeat for renomination in 1924" -shorten to "When Tankersley was four, her committed suicide, believed to be partly attributed to his defeat for renomination in 1924".
  • "Tankersley spent part of her childhood on her mother's Rock River dairy farm in Byron, Illinois,[7] but later moved to the Southwest with her mother and stepfather,[10] living at a ranch owned by Simms in Albuquerque, New Mexico and then on the Trinchera Ranch, a 250,000-acre (100,000 ha) property in Colorado that her mother purchased in 1937.[" -this is rather long. I'd put a new sentence in after stepfather then "They lived at a ranch.."
  • "Tankersley did not complete high school.[2] "I virtually had no education," she later stated." -would be better in one sentence like "Tankersley did not complete high school, and professed to have had "virtually had no education".
    • Rephrased, not sure if saying "claimed" works, but given the totality of the circumstances (she went to college, she studied genetics), it seems apt. Thoughts? Montanabw(talk) 08:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link University of Arizona.
  • "Her first marriage ended in 1951, when Tankersley divorced Miller to marry Garvin E. "Tank" Tankersley, an editor at the Washington Times-Herald.[8] He was ten years older than she was". =Her first marriage ended in 1951, when Tankersley divorced Miller to marry Garvin E. "Tank" Tankersley, an editor at the Washington Times-Herald who was ten years her senior.
    • Done, except "ten years her senior" is verbatim from the source... don't want to close-paraphrase. Montanabw(talk) 08:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Tankersley also dabbled in campaign politics, in 1948 organizing "Twenties for Taft" clubs to support the 1948 Presidential campaign of Robert A. Taft,[8] following in the footsteps of her mother Ruth, who was the first woman to manage a presidential campaign, the 1940 and 1944 efforts of Thomas E. Dewey.[" -long again. I'd put in a full stop after campaign politics. In 1948 she organized...

@Dr. Blofeld: the above changes all OK now? Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Newspapers
  • No links for the newspapers?
    • You mean wikilinks? Do you mean in the refs or in body text? I can do for those that have articles - not all do. Should I do some (i.e. Washington Post but not others? Glad to fix this, please adviseMontanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Times-Herald, described as "isolationist and archconservative,"[23] was known for sensationalism.[8] McCormick wanted Bazy to use the paper to create "an outpost of American principles."[24]" -seems sporadic on its own here. I'd squeeze it in after "Her uncle, "Colonel" Robert R. McCormick, then appointed her as the publisher of the family-owned Washington Times-Herald in 1949." and refactor. Something like In 1949, he uncle, "Colonel" Robert R. McCormick, appointed her as the publisher of the family-owned Washington Times-Herald, an "isolationist and archconservative" paper, known for sensationalism. McCormick wanted Bazy to use the paper to create "an outpost of American principles."
Yep.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The two men had even been in a physical altercation." -where and by whom? Is this reliable?
    • Richard Norton Smith, p. 505 and several other sources. I didn't want to go on and on about it to bog down the article that is not about either of them, but quite the tale: see p. 505. Here is a more complete account (!) Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Dr. Blofeld: Finished to here until tomorrow. See if I am on tack? A few questions below, also. Montanabw(talk) 08:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Horsebreeding
  • "She founded the Al-Marah Arabian Horse Farm when she first lived in Tucson, in 1941.[28] Tankersley stated that Al-Marah was Arabic for "a verdant garden oasis";[11] Mark Miller said the name was selected by Carl Raswan.[30] The original Tucson property was 40 acres (16 ha). " -some short snappy bits here which jar and affect flow. Try "She founded the 40 acre (16 ha) Al-Marah Arabian Horse Farm when she first lived in Tucson, in 1941. Mark Miller stated that the name Al-Marah was selected by Carl Raswan, which is Arabic for "a verdant garden oasis".
        • I like most changes and did some rewording, but I have to be careful with acreage, as she bought and sold parcels, so it kept changing (this is common with US land, especially in the west where there are few historic properties, people start with a small parcel, then buy out neighbors as they move or age, etc... We also aren't certain Al-Marah really means a verdant oasis - only that Raswan claimed it did. (Raswan did speak Arabic, but still) Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "gives rise to the assertion that the Al-Marah herd is the "oldest continuously-bred, privately-owned band of Arabians in the world."" -who asserts it?
    • Cited source, p. 78. You know that I loathe the "person foo said" approach...  :-P Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC) plus I rephrased that to clarify. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She owned him outright by 1959.[37][39] She later added another Rissalix son from Hanstead, *Ranix.[37] In 1962, she imported another Crabbet-bred stallion, *Silver Vanity.[40] She used her knowledge of genetics to institute a program of selectively inbreeding horses of bloodlines she considered of excellent quality.[41] In her early years, she" -five sentences with "she".
  • "2006 National Champion " -no link to whatever related article?
  • "who moved the Al-Marah Arabian farm name" -I'm not sure you can move the name unless it was on wiki ;-) moved location and changed the name?
    • Suggested rephrase ?- when she moved, she kept the same farm name wherever it was - not common for farms... usually they stick to one geographic location! Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No link for the College of Agriculture?
    • No, it's a division within the University of Arizona, now linked. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grand Canyon Trust is red linked and likely notable, but many of the other likely notable ones are not. Always good to stub them I think.
    • Want me to stub that? (I can) but are you saying that I should do something with others? Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you can red link a few and I'll also try to help clear them if you like.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to link anything else you think needs linking. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • this section done - back to Blofeld
Legacy
  • "She was also noted for a strong personality: "If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant."[24]" -rep of "she". Also not clear who the second quote is from. I'd change the whole initial paragraph to Tankerley was noted for her strong personality, dominating in positions of leadership or power. She once stated, "You see, I come from that old-fashioned background of noblesse oblige: If you're born with money, you have an obligation to do good works for others."

Heh, I suspect everyone who knew her! The quote is attributed to an individual of no particular notability, in context, it says "To some, she came across as autocratic... Even in later years, "If she served on a board, you never got the feeling that democracy would enter the room," says Herman Bleibtreu, another friend and retired dean of the University of Arizona College of Liberal Arts. "If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant." Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Tankersley's politics shifted dramatically during her career. Noting her earlier strong affiliation with the Republican party and conservative politics, The Washington Post reported that in 2008 she voted for Barack Obama.[8] She also supported Democratic Arizona Representative Gabrielle Giffords.[24]" -not sure why this belongs in legacy. Belongs in background, I'd name the first section of the article "Background and personal life or something.
    • Let me think on that one. The problem is that the article goes in a chronological format, mostly, so her later environmental stuff was more of her planning for the future, and the Obama vote an example. But let's discuss, I'm not wedded to the current placement... just don't want to make it more awkward. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK, changed Background section name, in Legacy section I flipped the order in the paragraph, consolidated paragraphs and tightened. My thinking here is that I wanted to highlight stuff she did that has continued after her death (the schools, the land preservation, etc...) that's why it's a legacy. I did move the politics up to a spot in the background section. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most likely due to her love of Arizona, " -sounds like OR, did the author assume that? If so attribute who thought that.
    • Quote is "By her early 20s, she already loved the desert"... from cited source. Can toss if you feel it's too much of a stretch. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I probably wouldn't state it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Tossed Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again I'm not sure why most of "Tankersley was a consistent advocate of the Arabian breed as a performance horse. In addition to the show ring and endurance riding, where she sometimes rode her own horses, she also tested her horses on the race track.[39] Her horses won the Tevis Cup once[31] and earned multiple national championships over the course of her career.[4] She was a major promoter of the Arabian Horse Association (AHA) Sport Horse Nationals, and her own horses also acquired many championships at that competition.[4] Further supporting Tankersley's interest in sport horse disciplines, two of her horses, Al Marah Xanthium, and Al-Marah Quebec, were the first Arabians accepted into the American Trakehner Registry.[3" belongs in legacy. If horses won cups they should be mentioned in horseracing career and documented there.
    • Not sure when they were accepted, might have been after Miller got them, he's pushing the Dressage stuff even more than his mom did. However, you raise an interesting question about article structure that I will think about; will be back once I've fixed the easy stuff and had time to digest the other things. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During the 2010 World Equestrian Games, the foundation sponsored the exhibit "Gift of the Desert: The Art, History and Culture of the Arabian Horse."" -and how exactly was this related directly to Tankersley?
Mention it perhaps?
I think I figured out a rephrase to clarify all the connections... I had skipped connecting some dots. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
References

Inconsistencies in date formatting. Ref 20 is January 1, 1945., most of the others digits. I prefer to write the dates as either 1 January 1945 or January 1, 1945, looks more professional IMO, but should be consistent either way.

    • Actually all the dates are written out, all the "accessdate" parameters digits. The inconsistent format of the ref, I think I fixed that. If you really want me to have date and accessdate identical (I think the deal was that I used reflinks a ton to fill in refs) I CAN change all of them, but do I really have to? (whining)
I'll do it for you if it's too much trouble!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:19, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ARRGH! But they all got changed to UK format instead of US format....! So now I have fixed them all, I hope(?!?!) Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey even the wiki signature gives the date like that!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:35, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes "Arabian Visions" a reliable source?
    • It is a now-defunct magazine, but was run by R.J. Cadranell, who was a respected bloodstock researcher (examples:compiled indexes, back issues for sale, included in anthologies) A history bit is online here. On the contributors' list is Michael Bowling, a researcher and noted expert on the Crabbet lines in Arabians, (examples: [9], [10] and his late wife, Anne Bowling was a well-known equine geneticist at the vet school at UC Davis: [11], [12] . So a very reliable source, IMHO.
That's fine then!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good article overall, but I think the prose needs to polished in a fair few places before this is ready to pass, some of those identified are some examples. Can you get some expert copyeditors like Eric and RHM22 perhaps to give it a read and copyedit? Will be glad to support once points are addressed and has been given another copyedit.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:35, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't need anything major, just a tightening up in places I think!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I think it would still be good for some great copyeditors to give it a read but it seems to be near the line to me. There doesn't seem a tremendous amount of biographical material on her, she's notable largely because of the horses. Good job.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:34, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source review by Jaguar edit

Been looking through some of the sources and have found some issues with these paraphrases - I hope with these being clarified it could help this article fully meet the FA criteria: ☠ Jaguar ☠ 16:30, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Article: "Robert McCormick had no children of his own, "doted" on Bazy,[8]"
  • Source: "Robert McCormick ... was childless and doted on his niece."
    • I think putting "doted" in quotes and having a citation is enough, but if you have a suggested rewording, I'm open to ideas. Montanabw(talk) 05:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: "McCormick wanted Bazy to use the paper to create 'an outpost of American principles.'[24]"
  • Source: "McCormick said in 1949 that he wanted Bazy to create 'an outpost of American principles'"
    • Again, quoted the direct stuff, has cite, but open to rewording ideas. Montanabw(talk)
      • I'm sorry to be useless but I can't think of anything either! I would say it's fine as it is? ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Or maybe at least lose the quotation marks for 'an outpost of American principles'? ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
              • Think I'd better keep those, that IS a direct quote from the source. Montanabw(talk) 20:56, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: "she was involved in the creation of two private schools, the Primary Day School in Bethesda and the Barnesville School.[8]"
  • Source: "later helped start two private schools in the Washington area — the Primary Day School in Bethesda and the Barnesville School."
    • Per Blofeld, I agree this is not a close paraphrase. Or at least, I can't think of any way to get more creative Montanabw(talk) 05:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: "McCormick also told her to choose between Garvin Tankersley and the Tribune Company".
  • Source: "McCormick told her to choose between Tankersley and the Tribune Co."
    • I can see why you flagged this one, but my brain isn't working well to shape an alternative phrasing. Ideas? Montanabw(talk) 05:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Maybe something like "McCormick also told her to [decide between] Garvin Tankersley and the Tribune Company"? ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: "Tankersley had started his career as a photographer and became managing editor, leaving the paper in 1952, later returning to the newspaper business as a director of the Tribune Company of Chicago from 1973 to 1981.[18]"
  • Source: "Tankersley ... started as a photographer ... He rose to become managing editor before leaving the paper in 1952 ... He was a director of the Tribune Co. of Chicago from 1973 to 1981".
    • I reworded that one to: " Garvin Tankersley had started his news career as a photographer. He was the managing editor when he left the paper in 1952. Many years later, he served as a director of the Tribune Company from 1973 to 1981." Better? Montanabw(talk) 05:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thank you ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Most of those I don't think are bad cases. The schools one especially is fine. The two McCormick ones are clear though and some of the words of the others might be tweaked slightly though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am open to suggestions for improvement, so thank both of you. Do note that I DID put direct source quotations inside quotation marks, so I don't think the first two need changes; there are only so many ways one can say some phrases, though if you can suggest improvements, that's good too. I am open to suggested ways to rephrase the others; sometimes it is useful for someone who has not seen the sources to propose wording. Blofeld does this, and even when I don't institute his suggestions verbatim, his ideas give me a kickstart to figure out a useful solution. Montanabw(talk) 07:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for addressing most, I left down a few examples I could think of but overall I think the majority of the paraphrasing have been corrected. I'll support this nomination now as I can't find any more issues myself, and I'm confident that all of the above have been addressed. Good luck! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from GregJackP edit

  • Disclaimer - I did not read all of the above comments, so if I make a comment that has already been addressed above, please let me know.
  • The "Al-Marah" photograph in the "Death and Bequests" section does not have any alttext.
  • Citations in the "Reference" section - some end in a period, others do not. This should be consistent throughout the section.
    • Very hard for me to spot which do and which don't, can you flag the obvious ones? I think all the ones where I used the templates have them, the ones where Reflinks did the work may not... eek! Montanabw(talk) 23:06, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • These refs need an ending period: 1, 10, 16, 17, 26, 36, 37, 38, 41, 42, 45, 46, 48, & 49. GregJackP Boomer! 06:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Explanatory notes in the "Notes" section need to end in a period. The first does, the remainder do not.
  • Wonderful article. GregJackP Boomer! 15:12, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

Image review

  • File:Bazy_with_horses.jpg has two FURs, the first of which is far better and more complete - suggest removing the second. Also, this source attributes the image to Al-Marah, so would probably be worth mentioning that in the image description
    • FIXED - I think. OK? Montanabw(talk) 05:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Mostly, but the photo credit is not in the source currently in the image description (at least not that I see), but the one I linked above. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Added HCN link to image page. Does that work?
  • File:Indraff_and_Bazy.jpg has two different fair-use tags: the generic tag and the historic image tag. Would suggest removing the historic tag as this will be difficult to justify - generic is fine, or you could try making a case for {{non-free biog-pic}}. However, given the dates involved, what steps have you taken to try to find PD images?
    • Fixed the tag (I think) If you mean seeing if it passes the published-pre-1964 copyright not renewed test, I have only seen images of either individual (Bazy or the horse) in horse magazines and maybe books (and then copied to the web in random places) In fact, that particular image may be one that the family only released recently. I looked for it in Hathi Trust books (searching for Indraff, as he's easier to make a narrow search on) and that particular image didn't pop out at me. I'm open to ideas, though. Montanabw(talk) 05:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria (talk) 02:44, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

      • If you wanted to pursue that, you could contact the family to confirm it was only recently released, and ask whether others were published earlier. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm not real comfortable with that. For one thing, I prefer not to disclose my RL identity in connection with my wikipedia editing, but these folks would want to know who I am and that I'm not a troll. Also, given that I think the family has been "drinking from a firehose" ever since her death (Miller had to shut down his dinner show to take over the Al-Marah operation, just as an example), I'd hate to burden them. Montanabw(talk) 21:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support – With the caveat that you could hardly find a topic about which I know less than this, I add my support. The article is certainly of FA quality so far as the prose is concerned, and it seems to me to be comprehensive and balanced, and is clearly well sourced and referenced. A fine piece of work, it seems to me, and I'm glad to line up behind the earlier supporters. Tim riley talk 20:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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