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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Armero tragedy/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 18:33, 7 September 2010 [1].

Armero tragedy edit

Armero tragedy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): ceranthor 01:16, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I'm now confident that it's of the featured article quality. I've been working on this heart-wrenching story for the past two months or so and found myself hooked. I feel that this article is now a fully comprehensive account of this catastrophe and helps deal justice to all the poor souls that lost their lives in the events of November 13, 1985. I received help (thank you Malleus, Avenue, and Ruslik) with the prose, and it could probably use a bit more work, but I am confident this will be an awesome feature on the main page on the eruption's 25th anniversary in November. ceranthor 01:16, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments - no dab links or dead external links (will likely offer a more thorough review in a day or two). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments

  • As there are multiple references to Mileti et al, this should be listed with the other book sources (at present Mileti is defined in ref 18, but see 5, 7, 19, 28 and 51)
  • Villegas (refs 15 and 17) is not defined anywhere
  • Consistency is required in the use of retrieval dates. Some editors provide these for every case where the source is available online, others do not give them when the source also exists in a printed form, e.g. journal articles. One example of inconsistency here is that ref 24 has a retrieval date while 22 does not.
    • Yhere is still the odd online source without a retrieval date. I saw 49, there may be others.
  • Ref 33: As a non-print source, "CNN" should not be italicised (use "publisher=" in template). Same point with BBC in ref 37 and Fox News in ref 55.
  • Ref 48: the abbreviation "USGS" has not previously been used. Consistency required.

Otherwise, sources look OK. Brianboulton (talk) 10:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Believe everything is fixed but the Mileti citation. I'm trying to figure out how to take it apart as several of the citations were linked to just one... ceranthor 13:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • General comment': The prose may need further attention. For instance, the second sentence of the lead reads: "Taking place after 69 years of quiet at the volcano, the eruption caught nearby towns completely unaware,[1] despite the fact that volcanic activity had been detected and the government had been instructed to evacuate the area.". I would say, first, that the words "Taking place", "at the volcano" and "completely" are redundant; the word "unaware" should be "unawares"; "despite the fact that" is verbose and could be written as "even though". I suggest a rewrite of the sentence as: "After 69 years of quiet the eruption caught nearby towns unawares, even though on an earlier occasion the government had been instructed to evacuate the area when vocanic activity had been detected." Brianboulton (talk) 10:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Images

Other images look good. J Milburn (talk) 10:43, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Removed the Palace of Justice siege image, and replaced the map with an already-existing png version. ceranthor 13:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support - all of my concerns have been adequately addressed. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC) ;Further comments[reply]

  • Generally you don't need citations in the lead. However, you do need them for direct quotes, especially when those quotes are not repeated later in the article
  • On a related note, why does the quote in the lead say "The volcano didn't kill 23,000 people. The government did." while later in the article it's "The volcano didn't kill 22,000 people. The government killed them."
  • Don't use contractions
  • Louisiana State University or University of Louisiana?
  • "In the 1595 eruption, ashfall from three distinct Plinian eruptions[5] preceded lahars, which claimed lives of 636 people" - grammar, and was it ashfall or lahars that killed people?
  • "allowed for the government to change its political rationality" - grammar, and what does this mean?
  • Be consistent in using "percent" vs "%"
  • "60 km per hour" - convert to mph
  • Be consistent in using "metres" vs "meters"
  • Why is Mileti not in sources? Why does its shortened citations include only one author while Martí includes both? Why does they include a date when Villegas doesn't?
  • Be consistent in whether semi-colons or commas are used to separate multiple authors
  • Ref 39 - formatting
  • Refs 44 and 45 are the same. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:07, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Should all be fixed, except that I didn't see any contractions other than those in quotes. ceranthor 15:41, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"The lahars on the map didn't have a distinct ending point" is not in quotes, as far as I can see. There's still an uncited quote in the lead that is not repeated in the article body. I'm still not sure what you mean by "political rationality" - can you clarify? You still use both "percent" and "%", you still have both "kilometers" and "kilometres". Author formatting for ref 14 remains unclear, and be sure to use dashes for page ranges. Don't forget the accent in Martí. Sources formatting should generally be the same as similar entries in Notes. Other than these issues, my earlier concerns have been addressed. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Blame my eyesight - I'll fix them, too. ceranthor 17:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what you mean by the sources formatting. Political rationality refers to what they value when responding to disasters, or at least that's what I got when I read the source article. ceranthor 17:22, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I mean that entries in the list titled "Sources" should generally be formatted in the same way as similar entries in the list titled "Notes". For example, you seem to have decided to separate multiple authors with commas in "Notes"; you should thus do the same in "Sources". Nikkimaria (talk) 17:26, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, fixed that. ceranthor 17:47, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Giggenbach, Garcia, Rodriguez, Londoño, Rojas, Calvache, W.F., N., L., A., N., M.L.; Garciap, N; Londonoc, A; Rodriguezv, L; Rojasg, N; Calvachev, M" - is the first author Garcia Giggenbach or W.F. Giggenbach? Formatting remains unclear. Marti is still accentless at one point, and formatting is still slightly inconsistent between Notes and Sources - look at commas vs periods, and check formatting for journal articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed? ceranthor 18:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is the second author of the Giggenbach book N Garcia P or P.N. Garcia? Page numbers and doi for Villegas? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:27, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Believe it's N Garcia, P. ceranthor 23:31, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Can't find a DOI... ceranthor 23:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
DOI: 10.1080/10106040308542276. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Notes as I get to them:
  • The name of the gov't office changed,[2] and an accent is missing on Atencion (I don't have accents on this keyboard). We should also add a translation. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know why I can't make that link work here, although it comes up independently on my browser ... do a search on "Dirección de Prevención y Atención de Desastres — DPAD — La Dirección de Prevención y Atención de Desastres – DPAD –, antes Oficina Nacional para la Atención de Desastres, fue creada en el año de 1989, mediante el Decreto – Ley 919." SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:26, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a fine article, but I'm finding a lot of need for MOS and ce review-- see my edit summaries and inline queries. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your comments. Listing those concerns here for my own reference: overlinking, nb spaces, MOSNUM, redundancies, spaced emdashes vs. endashes, and italics. ceranthor 18:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was personally interested in this tragedy when it occurred and your content appears from my lay perspective to cover all bases-- just needs some cleanup. Is Awickert going to review (since he speaks Spanish)? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure. He's been crazy busy all summer, so I thought myself lucky that he was able to comment today. Thanks. ceranthor 18:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did my best with translation. Think I got everything. ceranthor 19:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No offense Sandy, but don't you think you should lay off Aw for a while? You depend on him waaay too much. ResMar 21:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's OK - thanks for the concern though :). I helped with Nevado del Ruiz, and my Spanish is decent, so I would be the natural choice to review this article. I accept! Awickert (talk) 00:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support ResMar (overall, another well written Ceranthor work)

General
  • There's some over-referencing in the article, I'll handle it as I come to it. ResMar 22:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • ...even though on an earlier occasion the government had been instructed to evacuate the area when volcanic activity had been detected. Not entirely clear if earlier occasion is an earlier eruption of just prior to the tradegy event. In addition, I'm curious who instructed the government to istruct the people to evacuate?
Still an issue. Maybe you should just say "various organizations" or "geologists" or "volcanologists" ResMar 15:45, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • One person at a mass funeral in Ibague charging "The volcano didn't kill 22,000 people. The government killed them." Charging? The word would make much more sense if it and the sentance before were linked by "with". Actually, saying "charged" would fix it even better ResMar 02:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • To counter this threat, the government established a specialized office which promotes awareness of natural threats; the United States Geological Survey created the Volcano Disaster Assistance Program... Columbia suddenly becomes United States.
Should be fixed. It was a variety of groups who ordered evacuation... INGEOMINAS, the Red Cross, and Civil Defense officials. I thought that was a little too specific for the lead, though. ceranthor 02:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Background
  • Armero, located 48 kilometers (30 mi) from the Nevado del Ruiz volcano and 169 kilometers (105 mi) from Bogota, was the third largest town in Tolima Department, after Ibague and the city of Espinal. How necessary is "the city of"?
Fixed. ceranthor 02:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
1985 activity
  • He further stated, however, that the map "met with strong opposition from economic interests", adding that the map was not prepared long before the eruption and that mass production within the timeframe was difficult. This sentance leaves me completely in the dark. Are you saying that they were opposed to the map because it meant that they would have to leave their grounds?
  • One of the lahars virtually erased the small town of Armero in Tolima Department, which lay in the Lagunilla River valley... Which of the lahars? Also, the whole article is centered on Armero, so "small town" and "in Tolima Department" seems unneccessary repetition of "Background" material.
I think you should remove the valley stuff. It's sufficently explained in the lead, background, and previous parts what and where Armero is. Its location would be better suited for Background. ResMar 15:45, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Martí and Ernst (2005) believe that many who survived the lahars succumbed to their injuries as they were trapped, or contracted hypothermia – though the latter is unlikely, given that survivors described the water as warm. I think "in a 2005 pulication" would be better then (2005).
The first one - it means that they were opposed to the map because it was expensive, they didn't have a lot of time, and that made it difficult to mass-produce the map. Second - Not specified which lahar, though I suspect it was one of the later ones... not sure, though. Third, fixed. ceranthor 02:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I understand now. The way its worded, I thought that farmers were in opposition to the map. You should be more specific :) ResMar 02:27, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Query, stylistic, but wondering why you are using the last, or multiple firsts and lasts, for authors on the citation templates? The multiple parameters are unnecessary and chunk up the text something awful in edit mode, and it is much easier to just use one author parameter to list all authors in one field. Sample: {{cite journal |author=Sukhodolsky DG, Scahill L, Zhang H, ''et al.'' |title=Disruptive behavior in children with Tourette's syndrome: association with ADHD comorbidity, tic severity, and functional impairment |journal=J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry |volume=42 |issue=1 |pages=98–105 |year=2003 |month=January |pmid=12500082 |doi=10.1097/00004583-200301000-00016}} As you can see in this sample, listing first and last for each author would result in many more fields in the citation template, chunking up the text unnecessrily. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:46, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That might be my fault. The DOI tool query ran a long list of first-lasts (6, in fact), but I disregarded it at the time. Will fix. ResMar 01:39, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, ResMar, for saving me the work. ;) ceranthor 02:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You got free labor out of me, because while I was doing that I couldn't help but add links, publication data, standardized accessdates, and decruftify ScienceDirect urls. EditRefs is teh awesome. ResMar 02:04, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again. :) ceranthor 02:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What are you doing thanking me? You should be busy fixing up the article, hur hur hur ResMar 02:11, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Somebody should be answering my questions. ceranthor 02:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Someone should be busy reviewing the other side of the bargain :P ResMar 02:27, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe later (yawn). ceranthor 02:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: All have been addressed

  1. "Built on top of a debris fan marked by older mudflows" By definition, a mudflow can not build a debris fan. I don't have the book that is cited (Mileti et. al, 1991), but perhaps "older lahars" would be better here. Awickert (talk) 15:48, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  2. As a more general comment on the use of "mudlfow": mudflow is mud, debris flow is all sizes of debris. Both are produced in lahars. Alas, the newspapers call nearly everything a mudflow, so this can be hard to pick apart, but the terms are self-explanatory. I changed this in the definition of "lahar" in the lede. Lahars, especially near towns, are AFAIK very often true "mudflows", however, with only the fine material remaining in the flow. Awickert (talk) 15:48, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, that should be fixed. ceranthor 12:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "The thermodynamic equilibration (stationary heat energy) temperatures, corresponding to the chemical composition of the discharged gases": Chemistry has always been my weaker suit, so I'll have to ask for clarification (finding none readily on the internet): is "thermodynamic equilib. temp." the temperature at which those gases would exist in the measured concentrations if all reactions had progressed to equilibrium? If no one knows, I will look it up... the current definition here has me scratching my head. Awickert (talk) 07:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not really sure either, believe that Ruslik wrote that sentence. ceranthor 12:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I will look it up. Awickert (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is exactly what it is, as an estimate of temperatures inside the volcano/fumarole/whatever else. Awickert (talk) 08:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "The eruption occurred at the same time as the 1985 Mexico City earthquake, limiting the amount of supplies that were sent between the two events.": I read through the reference for this paragraph, but can find nothing about this. I am going to reword it slightly anyway, as it is probably just a matter of slapping on the right ref. Awickert (talk) 09:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aftermath: 1st paragraph. Could the reference go right to the text cited, instead of a general table of contents? Also, here it is written that the town was built atop mudflows, while before, the article states that it was built on debris fans. Which is it? Awickert (talk) 09:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Once these two are taken care of, I will be prepared to support. Awickert (talk) 09:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should be fixed. ceranthor 12:05, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is; couldn't help tweaking a couple more times myself though. Awickert (talk) 16:01, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nominator comment, Thanks everyone who has provided reviews so far. Also, thank you Nikkimaria and Resident Mario for your supports! ceranthor 16:10, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Nice article. Volcanoguy 00:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. ceranthor 00:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. All of my above comments have been addressed. Nice work! Awickert (talk) 16:01, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments and the support. ceranthor 18:37, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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