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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Alpine ibex/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 10 January 2024 [1].

Alpine ibex edit

Nominator(s): LittleJerry (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I brought this article to GA ten years ago and recently expanded it, added more sources and got a peer review. How about it? LittleJerry (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Suggest adding alt text
  • File:Leefgebied_alpensteenbok.JPG: what is the source of the data presented? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
replaced LittleJerry (talk) 19:34, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FM edit

  • I was the one who GA reviewed it 10 years ago, so I'll see what has happened in the meantime. FunkMonk (talk) 19:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • At first glance, I see a lot of modern countries linked, which should removed per WP:overlink. Italy is even linked twice.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with the point below that the single paragraph naming section is too short (single paragraph sections are discouraged), it should be merged into taxonomy as a paragraph.
It doesn't fit in taxonomy.
It's there in most other featured animal article, so should be fine here too. FunkMonk (talk) 21:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Moved. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ibex on the wall of a dam licking minerals" Since this is a man-made object, could be interesting for context to state where it is.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Biologist transporting an ibex" Likewise, the Commons description also states it is carried for reintroduction, context which should be added to the caption.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Miocene and Pliocene.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "along with the Iberian ibex" give its binomial in parenthesis like you do with the other species mentioned right after.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The following cladogram is based on mitochondrial evidence:" Give date for this and other genetic studies cited for context.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bold Alpine ibex in cladogram.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • it seems odd to have an entire paragraph on foreign common names, yet no mention of what the actual English common and specific name, ibex, means or derives from.
Ibex is a name used to describe several species. There's an ibex article for that. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But it's the specific name of this particular species, not any of the others, so it should be explained here. I could understand that rationale if it was only the common name, but it's the scientific name too. FunkMonk (talk) 21:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Alpine ibex skull" State the sex, more important than repeating the name.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • How are they physically distinguished from related species?
It already states "Compared with most other wild goats, the species has a wide, shortened snout" and "It is duller coloured than other members of its genus." LittleJerry (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Grass genera that are the most commonly eaten" I don't think "the" is needed here.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "will try to sneak pass the tending male" Past?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hunting of the ibex has banned in 1821" Was?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hunting of the ibex has banned in 1821 by the local government of Piedmont and the park" What park? I see you spell out Gran Paradiso National Park in the intro, but you should do so in the article body then.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "new populations but they but also" Double but.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "highly deleterious mutations" Which means what? The link to mutations doesn't explain it.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link hybridization and domestic goats.
Linked goat. Hybridization is linked in taxonomy. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Local extinction could be linked in the article body too.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I think this looks good, a real blast from the past. FunkMonk (talk) 23:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from RoySmith edit

Lead edit
  • goat antelope isn't mentioned in the body
  • European Alps implies there are non-European alps
  • one of seven species the body says "at least seven"
    • There's still a mis-match. The lead says one of seven species in the genus Capra (the cladogram shows seven as well) but the body says classified in the genus Capra ... with seven other species of wild goats which implies there's a total of eight.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • closet living relative is the Iberian ibex Other than spelling "closest", this isn't explicitly stated in the body although it can be inferred from the cladogram. Maybe that's good enough, whatever is generally accepted for animal species articles is fine
  • coat colour is typically brownish grey the body states this a fact; why the need to equivocate in the lead with "typically"?
  • scale nearly vertical surfaces not stated in body
  • Probably not strictly a FACR, but it's almost impossible to see the one small orange ("introduced") patch in Slovenia. Maybe that could be called out in the caption to draw attention to it? Also, I'm curious why the map doesn't include the Bulgarian data. Could it be added?
The map is based on the IUCN. They don't give the Bulgarian data. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed rest. LittleJerry (talk) 00:27, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Naming edit

No issues, but this is so short, maybe it doesn't need to be its own section?

Taxonomy edit
  • Fossils ... are found ... a transitional fossil mismatch of number
    • Still a problem. The full sentence is Fossils of the genus Tossunnoria are found in late Miocene deposits in China and it appears to have been a transitional between goats and their ancestors. What does "it" refer to in "it appears"? Does it refer to "fossils", in which case you need "they appear". Or does it mean, "the species whose fossils were found", in which case you need to say that. Also, not clear what "a transitional" means. You need a noun in there somewhere. And now that I look at it, "are found" should probably be "have been found", unless you're trying to say that the finding is an ongoing activity.
  • date back to delete "back"?
  • during in the last glacial period "during" or "in", not both
  • it probably evolved I guess the referent of "it" is the implied "species Alpine ibex", but it reads like "Fossils ... is".
  • supported them as separate species, maybe "as being"?
Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 00:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Appearance edit
  • a wide, and shortened snout use either the comma or "and", not both
  • substantially larger than those of females, which reach only 18–35 cm (7.1–13.8 in) in length rephrase as "substantially longer ..." and drop "in length". Also "females, which reach only 18–35 cm" rephrase to make it clear that the horns are that long, not the female animals.
  • A beard exists in males -> "males have beards", perhaps?
Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 00:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Distribution and habitat edit
  • native to the Alps mountains I think you can just say "Alps" without having to specify that they're mountains.
  • new areas like Slovenia and Bulgaria maybe "such as" instead of "like"? Or if those are the only two areas, leave it out entirely: "... as well as new areas in Slovenia and Bulgaria".
Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 00:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Behaviour and ecology edit
  • zig-zag path on gradients of up to 155% Earlier, you talk about slopes in degrees. You should be consistent about which unit you use. Is a gradient of 155% greater or less than a slope of 45 degrees? Beats me. Maybe use {{convert}} to show both?
I have no idea how to convert them. LittleJerry (talk) 01:04, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/slope-percentage plus WP:CALC. Also Gradient is the wrong place to link to. I think you want Grade (slope), which also has a table of sample conversions which will be useful as a sanity check on your math. RoySmith (talk) 01:52, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:58, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reproduction and growth edit
  • results in the birth of one but sometimes two kids -> "typically results ..."
  • Males live for 16 years while females live 20 years I assume these are not hard-and-fast numbers, so "typically", "usually", "as long as", whatever.
  • grow up to 20–25 mm -> "grow to 20-25 mm"
    • This is still weird. You've got grow 20–25 mm ... by two months. If you're describing how much their length increased, you want "... in two months" or maybe "... in the next two months". If you're describing what size they've reached at the end of that time, then you want "grow to ...". Also, comma instead of period after "In males. the horns grow..."
  • about 8 cm (3.1 in) a year "per" instead of "a"
  • slowing down -> "slowing".
Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 17:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mortality edit
  • appear to have a low rate of predation. The source says "Predation is negligible"; why quibble with "appear to have"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Conservation edit
  • due almost entirely due duplicate "due"
  • hunting and poaching by humans why differentiate between these two? There may be a legal difference but from the point of view of the animal population, they're they same.
  • with a population of 100 individuals was there an exact census, or does this need "about"?
  • ibexes is the plural "ibex" or "ibexes". You use both.
    • Under "Appearance", "Ibex mould in spring" -> "Ibexes ..."
    • Under "Social life", "Male ibex fighting" (caption)
Fixed both. LittleJerry (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • However, having gone through a genetic bottleneck, they have low genetic diversity. Some people might object to starting a sentence, let alone a paragraph with "However". It's also odd that there's no obvious referent for "they". I mean, it's clearly, "the ibex population", but you have to go back to a previous paragraph to find that.
  • highly deleterious mutations were lost ... also gained mildly deleterious ones. give some examples of both kinds.
That's way too techincal. Fixed rest. LittleJerry (talk) 23:19, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for me. RoySmith (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A couple more items edit
  • The image in "Behaviour and ecology" is not a great image. In the small thumbnail size, I can't tell what it is at all, and even looking at the full size version, it's hard to understand what's going on. Maybe one of the other images from c:Category:Cingino Dam would work better?
  • In "Behaviour and ecology", did you intentionally use the British spelling of "Behaviour"? I'm guessing yes, since you also use "colour" If so, add {{British English}} to the talk page.

RoySmith; fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 18:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith; fixed rest. LittleJerry (talk) 19:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anymore Roy? LittleJerry (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've run out of things to complain about. RoySmith (talk) 16:02, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Possible images edit

There's a bunch of excellent images on iNaturalist including a few of animals climbing near-vertical cliffs. They're not all commons compatible licenses, but some are. One of these might replace the Cingino Dam image I objected to above. RoySmith (talk) 17:35, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't look like they have the right licensing for upload to Commons. LittleJerry (talk) 19:33, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's a little pop-up menu at the top to filter by license. This one for example is CC-BY, which should be acceptable to commons. As is this one RoySmith (talk) 21:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Aterbiou edit

A small comment: In "Taxonomy" it says the Nubian, walia, and Siberian ibex are now considered separate species. However, the cladogram in the next paragraph omits the walia ibex, presumably because it was not included in the study. Should there be a note about this? I was confused for a while, and had to check whether the walia ibex is one of the other ones in the cladogram but under another name (e.g., the Markhor or the Bezoar). Aterbiou (talk) 13:18, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, I wonder if that was the source of the confusion about seven vs eight species that I noted in my original remarks? RoySmith (talk) 16:12, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

Spot-check upon request. I kinda wonder if the lack of non-English sources here reflects WP:RSUEC or lack of comprehensiveness. MDPI is a somewhat dodgy publisher; I don't use it on my own FAs but I don't know about this particular journal or what the attitude at FAC is in general. Otherwise, the sources seem reliable. Again on my own FAs I've been told that long page ranges are a problem, but again I am not sure what the attitude at FAC is in general in that regard. Formatting consistency-wise, it seems like the format is mostly consistent, aside from the use of distinct identifiers which I guess is down to the sources. Gonna request hold until the MDPI and completeness questions are resolved. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm using English sources for English wikipedia. Why not judge the comprehensiveness of the English sources. LittleJerry (talk) 11:37, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hog Farm, your comments would be welcome. LittleJerry (talk) 21:06, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the question I have is whether using only English sources on a topic primarily about a non-English language topic can meet the comprehensiveness requirement. It seems like the coverage is comprehensive, but from only English sources you can't tell whether the sourcing is representative. Right away I notice no mention whatsoever of the cultural and symbolic role of the species, e.g it is the heraldic animal of the Grisons. Sounds like the logical consequence of using only non-native sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:12, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Many if not most of the authors of the papers and the books cited are continental Europeans, particularly Swiss. Just because they are in English doesn't mean they are written by Americans or Brits. I'll see what I can do in regards to cultural importance. LittleJerry (talk) 01:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Added information on cultural things. LittleJerry (talk) 01:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think WP:RSUEC is clear on this; "English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when they are available and of equal quality and relevance". @FAC coordinators: ? LittleJerry (talk) 19:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Whether or not the article meets comprehensiveness criteria with the dependence on English sources is a matter for discussion by reviewers, not the coords. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 20:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(Non-reviewer comment) Just because this is the en.wp doesn't mean you can't use foreign language sources. Imagine writing a FA on the Russian revolution without Russian sources, NPOV would be near impossible. It doesn't mean that every language has to be scoured, but I think JJE is right to question whether an article about a wholly non-English topic can be fully covered by solely English language sources. It's definitely worth discussion, although, as David Fuchs points out above, its a matter of consensus. Which is what we (hopefully) arrive at, and they ajudge. ——Serial 22:43, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said. The papers are mainly written by Europeans, mostly in the species native countries. English does not equal non-native. The Vladimir Lenin FA is mostly English language sources but some are written by Russian authors. LittleJerry (talk) 00:42, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here are the lead authors for each of the papers and books cited and where they are stationed: ToÏgo, C. (France), Brambilla, A. (Switzerland), Parrini, F (South Africa), Pidancier, N (France), Shackleton, D. W (Canada), Robin, M (Switzerland), Geskos, A. (Greece), Adamič, M (Slovenia), Grignolio, S (Italy), Wiersema, G. (N/A), Neuhaus, P (UK), Aublet, J.-F (Canada), Signer, C. (Austria), Biancardi, C. M. (Uruguay), Bon, R (France), Villaret, J. C (Portugal), Bergeron, P (Canada), Willisch, C. S (Switzerland), Stüwe, M (Switzerland and USA), von Hardenberg, A. (Canada and Italy), Ferrogilo, E. (Italy), Moore-Jones, G.; (Switzerland), Carcereri, A (Italy), Cassini, R (Italy), Biebach, I (Switzerland), Grossen, C (Switzerland), Moroni, B (Italy), Calenge, C (France), Schirpke, U (Austria), García-González, R (Spain). LittleJerry (talk) 00:45, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In my experience with e.g Andean volcanoes, using English-language sources by authors from the region does not guarantee completeness. As for concrete examples, de:Alpensteinbock#Literatur has several dedicated books in German. Google Scholar has several German-language publications. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:54, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced the MDPI source and added seven foreign language sources. In French, German and Italian. LittleJerry (talk) 22:02, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Aye, this looks better now. Spot-check still upon request. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:54, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jens edit

I already gave a bunch of comments during peer review, but I take a fresh look now.

  • Link Capra in lead?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Wild goat" links to the species article
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • males fight for access to females, and use their long horns for fighting – somewhat redundant wording, maybe "males fight for access to females using their long horns"?, or something even more specific by saying how they fight?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the information on fossil history is too brief. At the very least, we need to know where the mentioned fossil taxa were found. With Capra camburgensi, when and where did it live, and is it also ancestor of the Iberian ibex? Also, more information on the Alpine ibex fossils themselves would be good, too. Localities? Do the fossils indicate larger individuals than modern ibexes?
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Nubian (C. nubiana), walia (C. walie), and Siberian ibex (C. sibirica) were considered to be subspecies of the Alpine ibex – google search also gives many results for "capra ibex pyrenaica", so what about this one?
I don't understand. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My question was why you do not mention that C. pyrenaica was also considered a subspecies of the Alpine ibes. Is this less relevant than the other formerly considered subspecies you mentioned? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 02:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
C. pyrenaica was not considered to be a subspecies. Its not in the cited source and found no mention elsewhere. LittleJerry (talk) 18:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mention that the beard in males is diagnostic for this species?
Clarified. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • What about glands and body odor (also mentioned to be diagnostic in the Mammalian Species article)? Need to cover this.
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The description of the horns seems meager too. The ridges only seem to be on the anterior surface, and the anterior surface is flat?
Added some. The "Reproduction and growth" section talks about the growth of the horns. LittleJerry (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stopping here for now. Based on my comments above, my main concern is that the article is not broad enough in coverage, and that important aspects are not dealt with in sufficient detail. While we need to be concise, I think this is just not informative enough. Could you go through the "Mammalian species" article again (which is an excellent and highly relevant summary), to find additional bits that are missing, and add them in? I would then have another look. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 01:32, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I added some more but you'll have to be more specific. I think I've covered the most important topics in the mammalian species article which gets more granular. LittleJerry (talk) 13:43, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Females have a shoulder height of 73–84 cm (29–33 in), a body length of 121–141 cm (48–56 in), and weigh 17–32 kg (37–71 lb) – Maybe add "Females are much smaller, with a shoulder height of …", to emphasize that the size differences are particularly large? While it is obvious from the numbers, those take time to process, and if you only skim the article, one easily misses this point.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alpine ibexes are strictly herbivorous, with the majority of their diet consisting of grasses season by season. – What do you mean with "season by season" here?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • They move along the dam by walking and galloping. – Not sure what the information here is; they move along everywhere by walking and galloping, or not?
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Female groups consist of 5–10 adult females – the second "females" is redundant here, as female groups can only contain females, or they wouldn't be female groups.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Female groups tend to be more stable than males. – "than male groups"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • bipedally – maybe just rephrase with "on their hind legs"?
That's the wording of the source. I have to paraphase. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would be interesting to mention that horns grow fastest in their second year, as this is a difference to other Capra species.
I can't find that, but its not significant. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In the Mammalian species article. "In contrast to other species of Capra, the highest rate of horn growth in C. ibex occurs in the 2nd year of life." --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't see the importance of this and it doesn't really fit with "grow at about 8 cm (3.1 in) per year for the first five-and-a-half years". LittleJerry (talk) 23:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The slowing of horn growth coincides with aging in males. – I think this is already stated in the previous sentence and is therefore redundant.
Aging is a specific thing. Its not just living for some years.
  • The age of an ibex can be determined by annual growth rings in the horns. – Maybe add that horns stop growing in winter, which is the reason why annual rings are formed.
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, they stop growing in winter. They develop in summer. But this stopping in winter is crucial, because when growing continuously, you won't see any rings. Same with trees. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Enviromental conditions can affect courtship in the species: snow can limit the males' ability to follow and mate with females – maybe this can be shortened to just the snow part? Or is the snow only an example (if so, I would suggest "for example, snow can …").
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link "predators" in lead and main text?
I don't see the need. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am unsure about the structure, considering the section "Mortality". First, not everything inside there is about mortality (or have the mentioned gastrointestinal parasites been identified as sources for mortality?). Second, survival rates are discussed outside this section; why?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • This would be the case for populations in France and Austria. – Does not fit from a grammar point of view with the previous sentence, I think. Maybe "These gave rise to the populations in France and Austria" or similar?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the 1890s, ibexes were introduced to Slovenia, despite the lack of evidence of their presence there following the last glacial period.[11] In 1980, ibexes were translocated to Bulgaria. – Introduced or reintroduced in Bulgaria?
I don't know. Sources aren't clear. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Aside from France and Italy, the species range countries allow limited hunting. – Is hunting really allowed in Germany? (To my information, it is not).
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • due to low major histocompatibility complex diversity. – I think this could do well with a gloss for explanation.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ibexes were used by local people for traditional medicine, and a single carcass could be used to create multiple different remedies. – Can we have more detail here? What parts of the carcass are used for medicine?
No information on that. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not even in the book (see below)? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Added information. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Alpine ibex has been called the steinbock, a combination of the German Stein ("rock") and the Germanic Bock or Bod ("male goat"). – No, "Steinbock" is still the word for the species in German. "Bock" is a German word as well (derived from a Germanic root).
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Still incorrect I think. "Bock" is German, not Germanic. The Germanic would be *bukka according to [2]. "steinbock" is an English word directly derived from the German "Steinbock". --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source says Germanic. LittleJerry (talk) 21:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is Old High German, not Germanic. Please check other sources, this source seems to be unreliable. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Section termed "cultural significance" has uses for medicine and is not only about culture. Maybe rename "Alpine ibex and humans" or similar? Or even better: Move the info on medicine to the appropriate place where you discuss the population collapse due to hunting.
Traditional uses count as culture. Plus the section needs more text. LittleJerry (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is a bit short, yes. Maybe one think to mention is that in some countries (eg., Germany, Neatherlands), there is a constellation called the steinbock (which is named Capricornus in English). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can't find a good source on that. LittleJerry (talk) 22:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here are some more details about the initial conservation efforts in Gran Paradiso that could be added (As mentioned in the peer review, I think just one sentence on this is really not enough): [3]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 18:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's all from my side. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 02:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am a bit confused that you complain that you cannot find enough info on history and culture, but that there is an entire book on the topic (A monastery for the Ibex), which is only cited once. There surely should be more to find in that book? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't have access to the whole book and I don't have the money right now. Its more suited as a main source for Gran Paradiso National Park. LittleJerry (talk) 22:03, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, the section seems to be complete enough. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jens Lallensack? LittleJerry (talk) 14:06, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One reply above regarding the "Steinbock" etymology, rest looks good now. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]


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