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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Aliens (film)/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 30 October 2022 [1].

Aliens (film) edit

Nominator(s): Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 20:39, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the 1986 science fiction action film Aliens directed by James Cameron and starring Sigourney Weaver, in what would be the first of the two trendsetting sequels he made. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 20:39, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Lankyant edit

  • Within Plot and Cast it calls the colony Hadleys Hope but in every source I can find it is Hadley's Hope, with the apostrophe. It also makes more grammatical sense with the apostrophe.
  • In the lead I would change 'troop' to 'unit', however, if kept as troop I would wikilink it.
  • In plot, the sentence "descending into alien-secretion-covered corridors." seems clunky. I suggest "descending into corridors covered in alien secretion."

That's it for now, will go through the rest of the article when I get chance :) Lankyant (talk) 01:40, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Lankyant, all changed Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 14:12, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support and Comments from ErnestKrause edit

Some comments about this well-written article which I've just noticed to get things started.

(1) There is an odd redirect to this film page from "M56 Smart Gun" even though there is no article for "M56 Smart Gun"; it just seems to redirect to the top of the Aliens film article with no explanation.

(2) In the lead section, you do mention this is the second film in the franchise, which is accurate. Given the strength of your Sequels section at the end of this article, it seems like it would be useful to state how large the franchise is in the lead section. For example, 'it is the second film in the 12 films in the Alien franchise', or, 'it is the second film in the two dozen films in the Alien franchise.' I'm not sure of the exact number but you might know it from memory.

(3) In the Plot summary, my memory is that the weapons and guns in this film received a good deal of screen time when I watched it. There are the scenes where the Marines are drilling with their M56A2 Smart Guns as if preparing for battle, and doing prepatory weapons drills, etc. Also there is the prominent scene of some extended length featuring the UA 571-C Sentry Guns which takes on the swarm of attacking Aliens. Can these be mentioned or added in some way into the Plot section since they were prominently featured in the film? (One link for the M56 is here [2], and one link for the Sentry Gun in here [3].)

(4) You did give some information about the German origin of the Smart Gun in the next sections, though you do not cover the Sentry Gun. Could this be added? My thoughts are that once you add some of the details about the Smart Gun and the Sentry Gun used in the film, that this would be the better place to link the re-direct of the M56 I mentioned above in my note #1 with an indexed link to this new section, rather than an unindexed link to the article as a whole.

(5) My recollection is that there was a novelization made for this film, separately from the graphic novels which you already mention in this article. Possibly you can find this on one of the book seller websites on the internet with its author and publisher.

Its a short list for now to get things started. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:26, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • I fixed the redirect
  • The rest of the franchise is discussed in the last paragraph of the lead since it comes after the film's release,production, etc
  • It looks like just under a dozen films in the franchise; can you state that in the first paragraph. For example, in the Bond franchise it is typical to include the number in the series in the 1st paragraph of the lead section, such as the GA for Diamonds are Forever which was the 'seventh' (and final Eon Productions film) in the franchise. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • What I read in the franchise article on Wikipedia is that there were 4 films in the original series: I, II, III and Resurrection. Could you change the wording in the lead paragraph of the lead section to state: "...the second of four films in the original Alien franchise." Or, something like that.
  • Hi Ernest, this is covered in the last paragraph of the lead that covers other films, it mentions the number of sequels, plus prequels, plus the standalone film I added info about yesterday. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 10:34, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It wouldn't really be appropriate to specifically mention the weapons in the plot as there is a strict limit on how long plot sections can be, and mentioning the guns by name would not add to the understanding of the plot.
  • May include a mention of the one or the other. The scene with the Sentry gun lasted about 6-7 minutes in the film. It seems like it was more than just a cameo. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentry guns aren't in the theatrical cut, they're only in the extended versions and the plot covers the theatrical cut. I've researched some behind the scenes info about the guns and put it in the special effects section. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:35, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nice addition by you about the sentry guns from yesterday." ErnestKrause (talk) 00:25, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I linked the M56 to that section discussing the smart gun. There is no info about the sentry guns but that's because they were just kind of basic creations and there isn't much information about them. Because of the existing length of the article they're currently beyond its scope, but if I am ever able to obtain some of the more detailed design background literature, I might be able to split the special effects section off and make it larger.Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikipedia does have an article for Sentry gun which could be used for adding some details for this history of where this type of gun came from, etc. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added info about the novel

Adding 6 & 7 below:

(6) The 4th paragraph of the lead section uses the phrase: "and both one of the best science fiction and action films and..". The conjunctions in one sentence does not look encyclopedia in presentation, can the sentence be tweaked.

(7) The next film in the franchise currently under way is to be directed by Fede Álvarez and to be produced by Ridley Scott, is this worth a mention in your Sequels section. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:35, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Its pretty good writing in the article as a whole, let me know about the opening sentences in the lead section about it being the second of four films. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:25, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moving to support this well-written article about this film. I've also recently listed a FAC nomination for the popular culture figure Yuzuru Hanyu on the FAC page in case you might have any time for support/oppose comments. (From your other edits elsewhere, I've read the BFI book on Seven and you could ping me if you'd like a co-editor or co-nominator to improve that article.) ErnestKrause (talk) 10:55, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hey ErnestKrause, I forgot to reply to this, I will take a look at your FA nomination if its still up and I might take you up on the BFI Seven book offer. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 20:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still keeping this as an offer to refine and expand on edits as needed. The Richard Dyer book on Seven from BFI is short and well-written [4]; if you have a copy available in your local library then it could likely be read over a single week-end. If you create a things-to-do list for editing the Seven article, I'll try to response with positive edits or comments; just ping me when you are ready to move forward with it. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:35, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

  • File:Aliens_poster.jpg: image description should include info on the copyright holder
  • File:Pinewood_Studios_gateway.jpg: the license at the source is BY not BY-SA - however the larger issue is that the license there applies to "original content", which this does not appear to be. The source is dated December 2016 but the image was available online elsewhere before that - eg this site from October 2016.
  • File:Syd_Mead_LF.JPG: source link is dead
  • File:Alien_(1986)_-_Alien_queen.jpg could use an expanded explanation of purpose of use. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:17, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support and Comment from Lankyant 2 edit

  • In Sets and Technology "constructed from German MG 42 anti-aircraft machine guns", the MG 42 was a general purpose machine gun, seems weird to specify it was anti-aircraft or does the source say that and what makes it anti aircraft compared to normal MG 42? "constructed from German MG 42 machine guns" would work just as well.
  • In Critical response "cover of Time magazine (July 1986)" I would specify that it was July 28 1986 as the source show there were 4 different magazines in July 1986.
  • In other media: "Since its release, Aliens' has appeared across". Is that a rogue apostrophe because I can't see that it's possessive.
  • I would also mention, as stated by ErnestKrause about the tie in novelisation by Alan Dean Foster. reference here: Aliens : novelization. Library of Congress. 1986. ISBN 9780446301398. Archived from the original on March 29, 2019. Retrieved March 29, 2019.

I will take another look through this article but I am happy to support. Brilliant work and a very good and informative read. Lankyant (talk) 07:50, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Lankyant, all doneDarkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Funk edit

  • I'll check it out soonish, did you have a look at the sources[5] I linked at Google Scholar at last FA? FunkMonk (talk) 20:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ridley Scott is unnecessarily duplinked.
  • I did use the sources that contained relevant information, some might just mention Aliens by name in comparison to something else but the ones with analysis are in the analysis section. Removed the dupelink Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She accuses Burke of releasing the facehuggers to impregnate her and Newt" Impregnate sounds a bit weird, perhaps "use as hosts" instead?
Changed Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:46, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It still seems like an odd oversight that there is no mention of Ripley's initial suspicion of Bishop due to her experience with the android in the first film, and his later redemption, as this is an important theme that runs throughout the films. I'm sure some sources cover this? Perhaps mention it under "War and trauma", as this is about Ripley's trauma from the first film.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 23:35, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is "Ricco Ross as Frost: A private in the Colonial Marines" listed among the main cast, when this is a very minor role compared to Vasquez, who is only mentioned in passing along with the more obscure marines?
To take bias out of it I just went off the cast credited in the film's opening. Based on the casting section regarding Ross, I get the impression he may have originally had a larger role given he chose this over Full Metal Jacket, and so he got a bigger credit that carried over. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:46, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Carl Toop portrays an alien warrior.[1]" Seems a very arbitrary mention considering how many aliens are seen on screen simultaneously.
He's credit as alien warrior but he portrays all the alien warriors or at least the more prominent on-screen ones Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:46, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Names in captions don't have to be linked past the first caption they're linked in.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Full names don't need to be given in captions after first mention either.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sylvester Stallone should be linked in his caption.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:46, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The footnotes need citations too if possible.
The conversion figures are just done automatically with the Wikipedia template Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 15:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it's worth noting Alien 2: On Earth at least as a foot note, or in discussion of a sequel under "Early development". At least it shows that others were willing to capitalise on the success of the original before the studio itself.
  • Perhaps worth noting that Galaxy of Terror is at least a visual precursor to Aliens in many ways, as Cameron carried over much of the look.
So I've researched both these things and I gotta be honest, I don't think they belong in the article. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Alien 2: On EArth was released 6 years before Aliens and seems more relevant to the article on Alien. The sources I can find for Galaxy of Terror suggest it shares some visual similarties to Aliens but there is no information saying Cameron took any particular influence from it more than it just being his design style for science fiction settings. Maybe I am missing something. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 23:35, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Caucasian Goldstein wore dark contact lenses and underwent an hour of makeup to cover her freckles and darken her skin to appear more Latina" This is a bit odd terminology, you can be Latin and "Caucasian", and "Caucasian" itself is an iffy term. How does the source put it? If kept, at least Caucasian race should be linked for context, as it is not really used this way outside the US. FunkMonk (talk) 10:48, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I changed this a bit and removed Caucasian, I just thought that was the proper term from watching the COPS tv show. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think your solution works, could also have been swapped with "white". FunkMonk (talk) 15:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "James Horner's militaristic score became clichéd with re-use and imitation" Captions shouldn't really have unique, important info not found in the article body. Should be repeated and perhaps elaborated. I see there is "The same is true of Horner's influential (and often imitated) score,[62][84] which regularly appeared in action-film trailers for the following decade", but it could be a bit closer.
Changed the info Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Horner's "alien sting" sound was initially only used once" Not sure what this is, could it be elaborated?
I couldn't find further info that could describe the particular alien sting in more detail, it is at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koxkg7C216c about 1 minute here NSFW obviously), but I've added a link to the article about what a sting is. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The alien derelict spacecraft, originally used in Alien, had been in historian Bob Burns III's driveway since the first film was made." This doesn't really clarify whether the model was used in this film or not.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "could easily slide off of Weaver's foot" Is the "of" necessary?
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems quite important to note that the designs of the regular aliens were changed quite a bit from the original Alien film (the rigged look instead of the dome). Not mentioning it seems like an oversight. Especially since you go into quite some detail about the minor difference to the chestburster.
  • I think there could be some more on the queen's design itself (how it differs from the regular aliens), perhaps even show an image of a queen termite[6] as the obvious inspiration.
  • There could be discussion of the elaborate facehugger mechanics too, this is the first time they're showing walking. Certainly seems as important if not more than the minor detail of the chestburster having arms.
Regarding the three above, because there is a main article for the alien creatures and their lifecycle, I've covered the basics but tried not to go into too much detail because of this as it helped keep the word count down. Let me know what you think Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As hinted below, I think something like this is much more relevant and interesting here (can be kept short) than tangential info about the entire franchise. Particularly the info about the change of the "drones" is a must, even if you don't add anything else. Because the way it is written now ("but was not as concerned with the warrior aliens because they were onscreen only briefly") indicates they were kept as they were in the first film, when they were actually changed on his request. FunkMonk (talk) 15:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done though I didn't find any reference to queen termites. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 19:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "had not been allowed to see film pre-release" The film's? Seems ungrammatical
Removed it Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think the sentence was fine, it was just oddly worded. FunkMonk (talk) 15:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The National Entertainment Collectibles Association (NECA) released figures based on the film, including Newt,[16] Burke, and Cameron dressed as a Colonial Marine." State when, so it's clear it's long after the film's release.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Dark Horse published a crossover of the titular aliens and those of the Predator franchise by 1990, creating a derivative Alien vs. Predator franchise with its own films, video games and comic books;[157][158][159][160] this led to additional crossovers with Superman,[161] Batman,[162] Green Lantern,[163] Judge Dredd,[164] Wildcats,[165] and the Terminator franchise." Why is this relevant here, considering this is about the Alien franchise overall? It has little to nothing to do with the 1986 film itself.
So I included these here because they exist because of Aliens and the expansion of the universe in this film Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps condense it to a shorter sentence (all we need to know is there were more spinoffs in various media, not that there was specifically a crossover of aliens and Superman etc.)? Especially since you already say all you need to say with "It also expanded the Alien series into a franchise, spanning video games, comic books, and toys". It seems like way too much detail in a very tangential area, especially since you express a desire to keep the article slimmed down. FunkMonk (talk) 15:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 19:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Now this sentence hangs alone, could be part of the same paragraph as before: "A novelization by Alan Dean Foster was released alongside the film.[163][164]" FunkMonk (talk) 19:44, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that, I will have separated it out while I worked and forgot to put it back! Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:03, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Author J. W. Rinzler published The Making of Aliens" As he is already mentioned earlier, you could just use his last name.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in August 2020" Why is the month needed?
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could mention that McFarlane Toys made detailed toys based on the film long before NECA.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Newt's capture by the aliens forces Ripley to realize she is willing to die to save her. This demonstrates a selfless motherhood, unlike the queen's selfish motherhood." According to who? Such subjective statements need attribution.
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 21:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "this can be seen in the Caucasian single mother " Likewise, could be linked, if not substituted with white. What term does the source use?
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 21:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "suggesting the alien queen demonizes motherhood and make it less attractive" Makes?
DOne Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 21:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Asked why he thought Aliens' popularity had endured, Cameron said: I have to take my filmmaker hat off and look at it as a fan and think, "Well, I really like those characters ..." There's certain lines, moments, you remember moments. It's satisfying, it ends in a satisfying way ... But I actually think it's those characters. We can all relate to Hudson running around "What the hell are we gonna do now man? What the fuck we gonna do?" We all know that guy." Why is one quote inset and the other not?
Done, I'd not noticed tbh. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 21:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a white, Jewish actress of Russian, Moroccan, and Brazilian descent" The source doesn't mention "white", and again, Latin and white are not mutually exclusive terms, so "white" should be left out. To complicate matters further, the source says Hispanic, not Latin. If she has Brazilian descent, she technically has "Latin" descent", but not Hispanic, so it's better to stick to the wording of the source.
Done, this is ignorance on my part, even reading up on it I'm not 100% the difference between Latin and Hispanic, but I've changed it. It's confusing because the casting part says she was attempting to draw oin Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 21:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These terms are a minefield, yeah. FunkMonk (talk) 19:44, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In Aliens, this can be seen in the Caucasian single mother (Ripley) confronting the dark-skinned alien queen with an endless brood." Seems a bit of a reach, how exactly does the source put it?
"In Aliens (1986), for example, Berg points out that the viewer is confronted with opposing images of motherhood: the restricted brood—one adopted child—of Caucasian Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) and the indiscriminate procreation of the dark Alien Queen Mother."Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 21:51, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ridley Scott returned to the series for Prometheus (2012) (a prequel to Alien) and its sequel, Alien: Covenant (2017).[261][262]" These ignore the events of Aliens, and Ridley Scott apparently didn't like the mode of reproduction tied to the alien queen, so I wonder if this needs some modification.
I can't find any reference to this? Just an interview saying he liked the film. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 19:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can't find it anymore anyway. FunkMonk (talk) 19:44, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - looking nice to me now. Added one further comment above, and added a link and italics to T. rex. FunkMonk (talk) 19:44, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Funk! Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:03, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from John edit

Starting to look, but seeing "The series also has prequels to Alien, Prometheus (2012) and Alien: Covenant (2017), as well as a standalone film is in development as of 2022." in the lead paragraph is not filling me with hope. If it's full of sentences like this it won't be suitable. John (talk) 07:00, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Having read the whole article, I don't think I can yet support. Purely based on the standard of prose, it is not there yet. Some sample issues:

  • "A number of" is a rather lazy and vacuous phrase on an encyclopedia article. It's used four times. On each occasion, it would be better to state the actual number, if known, or to say "several" or "some". Zero, pi and minus eleven are all perfectly respectable numbers. We don't mean those numbers, but the reader is left wondering what numbers we do mean.
  • "Although he suggested distinctive eye pupils for Bishop when the character was alerted and had lenses mocked up, Cameron felt they made Bishop look more frightening than the aliens." There are so many problems here! "Eye pupils" doesn't sound right, what does it mean when the character is "alerted", by "lenses" I take it we mean contact lenses, and what does "although" relate to?
  • "She gained an additional 10 pounds (4.5 kg) at Cameron's request." See how "gained" and "additional" are saying the same thing twice? Once is enough.
  • "The alien nest was filmed in the decommissioned Acton Lane Power Station in London, and the set was left in place until the filming of the 1989 superhero film Batman." I think most of our readers will know that Batman is a superhero, and that the film was not about the Turkish city.
  • "Cameron first heard the score while it was being recorded by the orchestra and did not like it; however, it was too late to make changes." This could be better done using "but" and definitely doesn't need a "however".

I stress that these are sample sentences; I think the entire article would need to be copyedited before I could support. John (talk) 18:54, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Made the changes. I will have a re-read through it, it has been copyedited in December 2020 though by Miniapolis. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 16:47, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping, Darkwarriorblake. I consider myself a halfway-decent copyeditor, but I took a look at the history and a lot of water has flowed under the bridge in almost two years. That was a demanding copyedit, and I'll leave it to another set of eyes. All the best, Miniapolis 18:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone through it and tidied it up some more John Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:30, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi John, did you want to revisit? If you don't have time I might recuse and run through myself but you get first refusal... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:14, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Ian Rose, I took an initial hack at it. I think it needs quite a bit more; probably nothing that can't be fixed, but I am getting bonked for tonight, and you are welcome to take a shot if you're in a hurry. John (talk) 20:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is meant by "Cameron recalled the audience reactions while seeing Alien in the theater while working as a truck driver and believed it would be difficult to recreate the emotion and novelty of the original." Wouldn't it be dangerous to view a movie while driving? John (talk) 16:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's been a while since I wrote this all initially but I think I wanted to emphasize this guy was a truck driver like only two films ago and had churned out The Terminator and Aliens at the start of his career. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 17:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Tetrachloride is a disambiguation page. Which meaning is intended? John (talk) 17:31, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for taking care of the truck driver sentence. Here is a cumulative diff showing my (and your) copyedits. Other than the tetrachloride question, I wonder if we could slightly slim down some of the quotes in the Reception section by summarising? Other than that I think it is looking good. Over to you, Ian. John (talk) 17:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you John, I've also trimmed the larger quotes on the reception section. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 09:07, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TheJoebro64 edit

Marking my spot. Always loved this film (and its predecessor). JOEBRO64 21:02, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should start my review later today, sorry for the wait JOEBRO64 12:58, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

  • "A standalone film in the Alien series is in development as of 2022." I don't think this is needed—it pertains more to the Alien franchise than Aliens in particular. Obviously it should still be noted in prose but I don't think it's terribly important for the lede.
  • "In his book The Making of Aliens, J. W. Rinzler described Cameron coming onto the set as George Lucas had before him for Star Wars (1977), but Cameron was aggressive and certain of what he wanted, which irked the crew." I think Rinzler's analogy will confuse readers who aren't familiar with the production of Star Wars. I get that it's trying to say that Cameron was more controlling and focused than Lucas was when they were making Star Wars at Pinewood, but that's only because I'm somewhat familiar with the story behind Star Wars. I'd suggest reworking it to make this clearer, or just cutting the Lucas part entirely ("In his book The Making of Aliens, J. W. Rinzler described Cameron as aggressive and certain of what he wanted, which irked the crew.")
  • "Cameron (a designer) also contributed to designs..." This stood out to me as a little tautological. If the reader's told that Cameron is contributing to designs, then they don't really need to be told Cameron is also a designer.
  • "A cinematic touchstone with an enduring legacy... Now this is more of a personal observation than anything else, but the word "touchstone" strikes me as a little WP:IDIOMatic. It might be better to attribute "touchstone" to a specific source.
  • Just as a general comment, I'd be careful about using semicolons; I don't think it's much of an issue (and if you don't feel it is either, it won't affect my support), but they're easy to misuse and I spotted a lot of them throughout my read. Again, I don't think it's an issue currently but someone else might think differently.

Loved the article. Nice to see this '80s classic get the Wikipedia treatment it deserves. Good work. JOEBRO64 00:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review and copy editing Joe. Is benchmark better than touchstone or is that still considered an Idiom? Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 16:35, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Darkwarriorblake: I actually did some looking and it doesn't look like dictionaries consider "touchstone" idiomatic (they usually specify if you do) so I guess it's fine to stay; I just wasn't sure. I guess you can consider this my declaration of support. JOEBRO64 00:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from zmbro edit

  • Happy to support. Bout time this gets promoted. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 22:48, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Moisejp edit

At first glance the prose looks pretty good and I'm hoping this will be a quick review with not too many comments as I work through a more thorough read here.

  • "Cameron said associates failed to convince him not to take the job, believing anything good about the film would be attributed to Alien director Ridley Scott and anything negative to Cameron, but he was determined to direct." This is confusingly written. It's the associates who argued that taking the job would be bad for Cameron, right? From the way the sentence is written, it sort of sounds like Cameron was arguing that. Moisejp (talk) 19:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cameron recalled the audience reactions while seeing Alien in the theater while working as a truck driver, and did not see the need for a sequel, believing it would be difficult to recreate the emotion and novelty of the original." The part "did not see the need for a sequel" sounds confusing after all the talk of his determination to direct and all the work he did on his treatment and script. Could this bit be tweaked to make it sound less contradictory with what comes before? Moisejp (talk) 19:54, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Weaver gave a bouquet of flowers to each actor on the day their death scene was filmed and gave Reiser a bouquet of dead flowers." Was this meant as a joke (or a lighthearted reference to the fact Weaver's and Reiser's characters had a bad relationship)? It didn't mean the actors themselves had a bad relationship, did it? It would be nice if more context could be added if it's available. Moisejp (talk) 20:45, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Moisejp, I've tried addressing the first two concerns. The third, unfortunately there isn't much more information about it, it seems to be taken from a long lost MovieFone interview and when other publications discuss it, they do so in a context that seems to imply we're meant to understand she gave him dead flowers because Burke is the villain, but none I've found mention the context behind it. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 23:28, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If it was me I would consider taking out the flowers information altogether, as it seems to possibly raise more questions than the information it adds. But if you disagree, I won't insist. :-)
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 10:29, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Dennis Fischer wrote for The Hollywood Reporter, however, the unrelenting scenes of action and suspense worked for Aliens as they had in The Terminator; tension was created by placing the characters in successive, increasingly-difficult situations. According to Fischer, though, Cameron mistakenly thought over-long scenes created suspense." I wasn't sure what Fischer was trying to say based on this description. On one hand he said the scenes "worked" and on the other, Cameron's approach was "mistaken". Is it possible to tweak this bit to clarify it more? Moisejp (talk) 18:31, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 18:46, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Critical reassessment section feels a bit random and jumping all over the place. It also mentions at the start of both the first and second paragraphs that the film is considered one of the best science-fiction and action movies. But besides that the first paragraph talks about it being one of the greatest movies, then goes onto say Ripley's one of the greatest characters, then goes back to talking about it being one of the greatest movies. The end of the second paragraph also gives a ranking on another list of the greatest movies. I'd say spend of bit of time going through each point in this section and deciding what group of ideas it belongs to. I also feel the point about Vasquez feels out of place—maybe it can be moved to an earlier section in the article? If you really want to keep it in this section, I'd suggest at least putting it in its own paragraph. Moisejp (talk) 01:17, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To do Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 18:46, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:37, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've started my second read-through. I hope to finish within the next couple of days and will check your above changes during this read-through, thanks! Moisejp (talk) 19:49, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose and comprehensiveness. I really enjoyed this article. Moisejp (talk) 03:44, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much Moisejp, sorry I didn't see you had replied after saying you were starting your second read-through. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 20:42, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

Footnote numbers refer to this version.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:22, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mike_Christie, I think that's everything? Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 18:42, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like two nitpicks left. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:11, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:53, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ian edit

Recusing coord duties mainly to copyedit, I think following everyone's efforts so far the article is in pretty good shape. Going to pause before hitting Analysis and beyond... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:45, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Okay I've had my go at the prose and although a couple of statements threw me at first I think it's pretty well good to go now -- let me know any concerns.
  • FWIW I think we might have gone into a bit more detail than necessary in places but not too bad and I'd be loathe to cull stuff as it seems pretty well balanced over all. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:38, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • So far as I can see, the title of every work is in title case except for Scott (June 19, 1986). Is there a reason for this?
  • Is "improvisation" US English? As opposed to 'improvization'. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:00, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed hte title case. I've googled improvisation vs improvization and noone really seems to endorse improvization? It's an alternative spelling but improvisation seems to be the accepted US spelling as well according to sites such as The Free Dictionary Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 22:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]


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