Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Album covers of Blue Note Records/archive1

Album covers of Blue Note Records

Featured article candidates/Album covers of Blue Note Records/archive1

Nominator(s): joeyquism (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since its inception in the late 1930s, Blue Note Records has been an influential force in jazz music, with major releases from genre figureheads such as John Coltrane, Miles Davis, and Thelonious Monk under its belt in the mid-20th century. Its presence still stands strong today, with Norah Jones and Robert Glasper taking home Grammys for the label in the 2000s and 2010s. Music aside, Blue Note has also attracted attention for their wonderful album covers, some of which have been noted for their unique Bauhaus-esque compositions and labeled by some writers as being the definitive "look" for jazz as a whole. This article chronicles the history of those covers from the early 1950s to the present day, with commentary revolving around their designs (Andy Warhol did a few!) and their respective designers, particularly Reid Miles.

Courtesy pings to Roy Smith and SchroCat, who kindly left remarks on the article's peer review listing, and Tbhotch, who was the reviewer for the good article nomination. joeyquism (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FM

Quite an unusual subject around here, but looks interesting (I've just been listening through my old collection of jazz CDs, some Blue Note among them). Will have a look soon. FunkMonk (talk) 15:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for so quickly taking to reviewing this nomination, FunkMonk! I've addressed your comments below, though I may have also been quite quick to reply, so I apologize if I'm causing any merge conflicts here. Looking forward to reading anything else you may have to say in the future! joeyquism (talk) 15:55, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One concern I had was whether there are sources that cover this as a single subject, or if it was just stitched together from disparate sources about individual covers, but it does seem there is some wider coverage.
- Yeah, this is something I initially believed to be the case as well; however, I was elated upon my discovery that there have actually been entire book chapters and articles written about this topic, lol
I see a few WP:duplinks, which can be highlighted with this script:[1]
- I've installed the script; however, I'm not sure that it's working right now (for me, at least). If you could point me out to what you've seen so far, that would be much appreciated, though I should note that I intentionally double-linked some things in accordance with "Link a term at most once per major section, at first occurrence."
- Never mind; I only now realized that it's off to the side. I've since resolved the duplicate links, which I now see were inappropriate.
Images of people should preferably be aligned so the subject "faces" towards the text, could another Andy Warhol picture be used, or could it be right aligned?
- Personally, I dislike when every image/piece of media is aligned in the same way, ~~so I'll get to looking for another Warhol picture~~ I just found the mirrored (potentially original?) image on Commons (Andy Warhol1975.jpg). I've replaced it in the article.

Even better if that's actually the original! FunkMonk (talk) 02:21, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"taken by Wolff, and was designed by Gil Mellé." You should also give the first name of Wolff in this caption, and link his name.
- Linked. joeyquism (talk) 03:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the first footnote you only give lastname of the person mentioned, but in the second you give the full name, could be consistent. Talking strictly about the people mentioned earlier in the article already, Hermansader and Miles.
- Adjusted so that the full name appears in both footnotes.

"covers of first eight 12-inch" The first eight?
- Ah, yeah. Fixed.

" by German-Jewish immigrant Alfred Lion.[1] The label initially comprised Lion and American writer Max Margulis" Are their nationalities really necessary here? You don't give it for most other people mentioned in the article. Doesn't really seem relevant to the story either.
- I feel like indicating where Lion emigrated from is relevant here as it establishes a bit more context, though I do agree that "American writer" is redundant. I've removed the latter, though I may ease up on removing the German-Jewish designation later.

I won't press the issue, but if the Bauhaus connection had some relation to the German origin, I could see a point in it, not so much when it has no significance to the story. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that Lion's origin is rather important to the history of Blue Note; many sources emphasize this point as being something unique to Blue Note itself (e.g. Cook p. ix calls the label "little other than two German guys putting out music they loved", Havers p. 22 states that the (fairly obvious) circumstances in Germany during the 1930s "played a significant role in the creation of Blue Note Records", etc.) I think this should be included in the background section, which serves to establish some context for the essence of Blue Note. This might just be a bit of impassioned writing on my part, though I understand your concern here. Nevertheless, I'll keep it in unless others prod me to leave it out. Thank you for your thoughts on this matter. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since the scope of the article is all covers by this label, it seems an oversight that nothing is said about covers from before the late 1940s, if the label produced records already from 1939, which I'm sure must have had some sort of covers? I think something about this is necessary under background at least, how were the pre-late 1940s albums packaged?
- Unfortunately, I struggled with this issue while writing the article as well. The earliest Blue Note release with an album cover I could find was Sidney Bechet's Jazz Classics Vol 1, which was recorded in 1939 but released in 1951, around when Paul Bacon joined the label. However, while researching in order to address this concern, I've found that prior to September 1950, Blue Note releases were packaged in "plain, mass-produced... paper sleeves" according to page 79 of the Richard Havers book. Not sure of where to include this information as of right now, but if you have any suggestions, feel free to let me know; I'm not exactly looking at this with the freshest of eyes just yet.

Yes, the info you list is exactly what I'm asking for, and could fit well before you introduce Wolff in the Background section. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, upon a second read of the excerpt, I'm not sure that this information is applicable, as it makes no explicit mention of Blue Note actually using those paper sleeves; I may have paraphrased it incorrectly while in a drowsy stupor. Here's the part of the text I'm concerned with:

The new format brought with it the additional cost of creating individual album sleeves. These were more expensive than the plain, mass-produced, 78-rpm paper sleeves that were a one-size-fits-all solution. (Havers 2022, p. 79)

I've prepared a revised sentence in the History section that would look something like Prior to September 1950, Blue Note had packaged their records in plain paper sleeves; however, the growing popularity of 10-inch (25 cm) LP records in the late 1940s and early 1950s...; if this information were to be included, I think that the Background section would be a strange location, as to my knowledge such sections should be (within reason) some sort of elaborative text on a topic that encompasses the article's subject rather than the subject itself, akin to the background section of a monument or an album. Let me know your thoughts on this, and I will prune further based on those comments. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely think this info could be worked in without "falsely" implying that this is what they necessarily did before. This is my last comment for now, and by coincidence, I'm currently listening to a Jimmy Smith Blue Note album... FunkMonk (talk) 17:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Revised as However, with the growing popularity of 10-inch (25 cm) LP records in the late 1940s and early 1950s came an increased demand for detailed album covers with graphics and information, replacing the plain paper sleeves that were previously common. As a result, Wolff's photos would be featured on more of Blue Note's covers after the label began issuing 10-inch LPs in 1951. joeyquism (talk) 18:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was some problems with this which I chimed in on[2], but shouldn't Genius of Modern Music, Vol. 1 be linked at first mention? Pinging Eugenia ioessa as to how this should be done.

You don't need to spell out full names after first mention, now you do it at least for Reid Miles and Alfred Lion, could be checked throughout, because now it's inconsistent anyhow.
- Yeah, it gets a bit hard when it's a barrage of names - I've removed what I saw with regards to duplicated artist first names. I do feel that the style and composition section is a bit weird starting off with "Miles is credited..." rather than "Reid Miles is credited..." because the former makes it sound as if the article is about him (to me, at least). I've removed "Reid" for now, along with other first name duplicates.

"and Blue Note founder Alfred Lion" Not sure about presenting him again the second time around, but maybe ok since it's a bit after his first introduction.
- I feel like this is fair to include.

"while the title "Genius Of Modern Music" is written" Not sure, but since this is still the title of the album, shouldn't it still be in italics?
- ~~I think that since it's more of a reference to the words themselves rather than the work, this should be fine. If that makes sense?~~ Removed this altogether - see below re: "There seems to be some overlap..."

"with a then-unknown Andy Warhol" While famous, could still be presented by occupation like most other people you mention.
- I think "with then-unknown artist Andy Warhol" reads a bit strangely, given that most people in tune with art within the past century would have some idea of who or what Andy Warhol is? However, I also understand that article writers should generally assume that people are reading them to learn everything (at least that's my philosophy to a degree), so I think that this revision can stick, at least for now.

Yeah, you can't be sure that everyone, especially of the younger generation, necessarily know who Warhol was. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Following Lion's departure, Miles also left" and "After Miles left Blue Note in 1967". I think the date should be given at first mention. As it reads now, the reader first gets the impression that he left the same year as Lion, until reading the following section.
- I believe that I've covered this with "This frustration, coupled with heart problems, prompted his retirement from the label in 1967. Following Lion's departure, Miles also left...", though if you are referring to a different aspect, please let me know.

This was a mistake on my part, I thought their departures happened different years, but seems they didn't. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize for any confusion I may have caused here. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"are often supplemented by the photography of Francis Wolff, whose candid black-and-white photographs of musicians at recording sessions appeared on hundreds of Blue Note album covers" This seems to repeat info already stated in earlier sections (except for the photos being black-and-white), could be summarised further or somehow consolidated.
- Reduced to just "which appeared on hundreds of Blue Note album covers", and added the information about the candid and black-and-white qualities of the photos to the 1951–1956: Early years section.

There seems to be some overlap in how you describe styles used between the History and Style sections, which feels kind of repetitive. It seems a bit arbitrary that the styles of some individual covers are described nde rHistory, but others under Style.
- I'll admit that I didn't like this either, even while writing the article. I've since removed the longer style descriptions of individual covers in the History section.

I'm not sure if all the info should be wholesale removed, but could perhaps be moved to the Style section, if it hasn't already been. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I've written it, the style section focuses more on articulating the techniques used on the covers rather than in-depth descriptions of the covers themselves; unfortunately, I feel as if honing in on a few covers more than the others seems a bit unfair and awkward? I tried rewriting the sentence beginning They are generally characterized by their use of bold colors like ochre, vermilion, and indigo... as They are generally characterized by their use of bold colors like ochre and vermillion, as seen on the covers of both volumes of Monk's Genius of Modern Music (1956); however, that would warrant the omission of the mention of indigo, which I feel adds a little more to the idea of "bold colors". Regardless, I will certainly take this comment into consideration for future revisions. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A few things I'm left wondering are how do the covers of other jazz-producing labels of the time compare to those of Blue Note? Were they different, or did they later mimic the Blue Note style, considering it is here described as "definitive of the visual identity of jazz"? Looking at my Columbia album covers, for example, shows little resemblance to the Blue Note style.
- I didn't really look too much into the covers of other jazz record labels, as the labels themselves were seldom brought up at all in my research of Blue Note. I would have assumed some apt comparisons would be made had there been any notable covers among the other labels, though I didn't seem to find any.

Alright, if any kind of comparison can be found, it would be nice to add. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll certainly keep an eye out. Hopefully I can find something comprehensive, but if not, I would say "it is what it is" applies here. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"In an interview with the Kennedy Center, Blue Note president Don Was noted" You could give date for this and other retrospective statements for context. Especially since you suddenly mention another president of Blue Note.
- I've added the year of the interview, though I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of this. I apologize.

I basically mean all the retrospective views discussed under Reception and impact, would help their context if you added years to when the statements were published. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried my hand at doing this à la the critical reception section of Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion. I think it looks alright; however, I'd like to know your thoughts on this as well. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Artist Logan Walters reimagined the album covers of Wu-Tang Clan in the Blue Note style." In what context? An art project? Re-issues of those albums?
- Revised to "A project by artist Logan Walters featured the album covers of Wu-Tang Clan redesigned in the Blue Note style." Do note that I could not find a single date from a reliable source anywhere; this guy's website states that the project was featured in the New York Times, but after some odd hours scouring the web for this alleged NYT recognition, I couldn't find an article even mentioning his name. Odd, but I think it's still worth a mention.

Candid photography should also be linked in the article body.
- Done.

"photos by label executive Francis Wolff" You don't mention that occupation in the article body.
- I've revised this as "pictures by photographer Francis Wolff". Wolff was a label executive for Blue Note, though I think his role as a photographer is more pertinent here, at it was his profession prior to joining the label and a sort of side-role during his tenure there too.

Hi FunkMonk, thank you for your comments. I've addressed all (or at least I believe I have - it's late where I am and this was my winding-down-before-bed activity) of your comments above and my edits should be reflected in the article. Hope to hear back from you soon. joeyquism (talk) 03:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, I've added some answers above, and I should be able to support after your next round of replies. FunkMonk (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@FunkMonk: Hello again! I've addressed your comments above; apologies for any pushback that could potentially be the source of contention. Looking forward to what you may comment next. joeyquism (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - looks good to me, nice someone is tackling subjects like this. Would of course also be great if some of the for now unsolvable issues might be resolved down the line. FunkMonk (talk) 18:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the wonderful comments and your support! Apologies that I wasn’t able to get to Laysan honeycreeper before its promotion; if any of your nominations come up in the near future, I’ll be sure to return the favor of making some hopefully helpful critiques over there. joeyquism (talk) 19:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]