User talk:Wikifan12345/Archive 6

For the record

Wolf Blitzer is not a reindeer. --Gimme danger (talk) 00:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Uh, my bad. I thought I was removing the reindeer diff. Sorry! Wikifan12345 (talk) 09:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I do that all the time. --Gimme danger (talk) 01:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

An article you commented on in the past is at AfD

I noticed that you commented in a past AfD discussion of the article Nicholas Beale. After being deleted then, it has been reposted and is now back at AfD again, so you might be interested in commenting again (but you are under no obligation to). Thank you, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 22:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Long time no see

Sorry that I missed your message. I've been having problems with my chat program, so I'm online less frequently, but I still should be available most evenings. --Danger (talk) 03:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

topic ban

you should self revert, as you know this violates your ban. [1]. thank you. untwirl(talk) 03:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Does this really qualify? Wikifan12345 (talk) 05:20, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

definitely. untwirl(talk) 16:29, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I think that it's not obvious that the edits in question fall under the topic ban. I don't think "broadly construed" means all general international relations articles. There are certainly points to criticize about that table but its inclusion of the Israel/Palestine conflict doesn't necessarily place it in the forbidden zone.

Wikifan, I would encourage you to find non-international relations topics to edit though, regardless of the ban. Danger (talk) 17:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Got it. I was just whizzing through my all edits and happened to see the table was removed. I didn't really see a solid rationale but I understand now. Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:48, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Just cruising around wiki but wondering how international relations is equal to Israel-Palestinian conflict? Perhaps there is a legitimate place wikifan1234 could go and inquire as to the limits of his ban? Stellarkid (talk) 03:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not at all obvious that it's part of the ban; unlikely, in fact, that it is. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I gave that advice in my capacity as a mentor. It has little to do with the ban and more with the types of articles that are most conducive to developing interpersonal skills. --Danger (talk) 04:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Ditto. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:25, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Admin?

Yes. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Let's chat

About sources. Email me times that are good for you and I can try to work around your schedule. --Danger (talk) 04:31, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Wikifan12345. You have new messages at Gimme danger's talk page.
Message added 07:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Danger (talk) 07:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

An article you commented on in the past is at AfD

I noticed that you commented in a past AfD discussion of the article Nicholas Beale. It is now back at AfD again, so you might be interested in commenting again (but you are under no obligation to). I noticed that while many editors who commented on prior AfDs in the past were contacted, you somehow were not, so am leaving a friendly note here. Thank you, --Epeefleche (talk) 22:34, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Advice

I have adviced Factsontheground that in my opinion the discussion at Talk:Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre#Relevant has reached a dead end, see this post of mine on his talk page. If you agree with this, I propose we drop further discussion there. Off course, feel free to disagree. If, on the other hand, Factsontheground will opt to continue his non-consensus edits, I shall report him for edit warring. Debresser (talk) 11:40, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not too involved with that article but I agree with the consensus. Wikifan12345 (talk) 11:47, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I have indeed posted him on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Factsontheground_.28Result:_.29 now. Debresser (talk) 18:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Factsontheground

You have a friend! Lucky... He followed you to Violence in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, a virtually untrafficked page. Doesn't he have anything better to do. IMO, his sole purpose on WP is to insert 'bad publicity' to Israel related articles and anything productive is lost in 1/60. Sad... --Shuki (talk) 18:28, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

eh, I personally don't mind. He didn't revert any of my edits. I "followed" FOTG to RFK but not out of spite. So it would be hypocritical of me to complain. Wikifan12345 (talk) 22:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tapuah junction stabbing

This afd in which you participated is being discussed at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 March 12.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 00:04, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

you said "endorse", but i think you meant "overturn".--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 00:09, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Non Free Files in your User Space

Hey there Wikifan12345, thank you for your contributions! I am a bot alerting you that Non-free files are not allowed in the user or talk-space. I removed some files that I found on User:Wikifan12345/Palestinian casualties of war. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

• See a log of files removed today here.

• Shut off the bot here.

• Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 00:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Jewish Virtual Library

Concerns have been raised over some pages which you use as a source. I would like to ask you to please revert edits you may have made on the basis of:

• http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/suicide2.html
• http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/aksagraph.html

Best Regards, Unomi (talk) 18:05, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Just to clarify, the concerns raised regarding the source were from an uninvolved editor. Please revert. Unomi (talk) 00:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Apologized for the confusion. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:27, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I hope you will address the matter of the JVL sources you have left around, I notified you of my concerns prior to you using them, as we now have confirmation that it is a poor source please do be considerate of the state you have left the articles in. Unomi (talk) 02:32, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Uh? Where is this confirmation? Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Sources_for_casualties_relating_to_I.2FP Unomi (talk) 05:37, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That's hardly a discussion. Two users, one of whom is clearly on another end of the I/P conflict? Wikifan12345 (talk) 05:51, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

The first respondent is a RS/N regular, there is nothing controversial about her findings. This makes at least 4 users who consider it an inferior source for wikipedia. I know that you are aware of the general sanctions in the I/P domain. I would kindly suggest that you abide by them. Please revert. Unomi (talk) 06:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Revert what? JVL is a reliable source. It is used frequently in I/P. The only question is if this particular page is reliable. Can you find me a substitute that lists the # of attempted or plotted suicide bombings? Wikifan12345 (talk) 06:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to buttinsky. Just cruising around and saw this debate. I looked at the first graph and there is a source given. I downloaded the PDF and see it came from "The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage and Commemoration Center (IICC)" Why couldn't you use that source appropriately? As ItsmeJudith, one of the regulars at RS noticeboard, suggested? That should be satisfactory and there would be no argument with respect to JVL. In fact, the JVL is much like Wiki. Wiki is not a RS but hopefully the refs are. Stellarkid (talk) 06:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That is the source I told him to use at the start of all this. Unomi (talk) 11:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That is the source being used currently Unomi. Can you please specify and link the edits you perceive to be problematic? Wikifan12345 (talk) 12:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

AE Request

Please see this enforcement request. Unomi (talk) 11:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Iranian Uzis

Re: the addition to the Equipment of the Iranian Army page - I'm not disputing that Uzis are used by the Iranian military, but the link you use as a source, only notes that someone was arrested for attempting to export Uzis to Iran - this can't be used as a source to say that the Iranian Army uses them. Furthermore, the image you use to assert that the Iranian Army uses Uzis states that the soldier is a member of the Iranian Navy. A source verifying use by the Army is necessary. - Jonathon A H (talk) 13:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

All right I'll look at some Iranian military sites for a more accurate source. It seems on the Uzi page it lists Iran as a user. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Re Spike Jonze

Hi, I reverted your edit at Spike Jonze again. Rather than get into an edit war, could we agree to include what the source actually says, being (a) that he has a "Jewish background", and that (b) "he has admitted to being the great-great grandson of Joseph Spiegel, who founded the Spiegel catalogue at the turn of the 20th century and was the son of a German rabbi"? Probably also that should be worked into the existing section on his ancestry rather than having a stand-alone paragraph. For the record, I don't feel the article needs this kind of detailed geneaology at all - it's not usual to include ancestors in a BLP unless it's directly notably relevant to the person's life - but if you really feel it's relevant let's at least stick to what's directly supported by the sources. - DustFormsWords (talk) 01:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Article says Jonze grew up in a "Jewish household." Is that enough? According to this site, he is considered Jewish but I doubt it is reliable. WSJ is an RS I think. Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Um, that source says that Maurice Sendak grew up in a Jewish household, not Spike Jonze.  :-) - DustFormsWords (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Defamatory content

Please stop. If you continue to add defamatory content, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

Please note that if you persist I will take this to arbitration enforcement for action. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:26, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I was simply restoring cited material that you removed without reason. I explained my case in talk, which you subtly ignored, and waited a few days for others to respond. As a former admin, you should know a content dispute does not warrant arbitration. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

When it comes to BLP, there are much stricter standards, which you have repeatedly ignored. This is a formal notification that I have filed an arbitration request concerning your editing: please see WP:AE#Wikifan12345. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:26, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

All right Chris. XD Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I remember blocking you before. I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet, but judging by your conduct on this article it's only a matter of time. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:34, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the harassment. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Now I remember, that's what I blocked you for. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:43, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi there!

Do we need to have a chat? --Danger (talk) 01:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Not particularly. I wasn't edit-warring or anything, just a content dispute that escalated into something unnecessary but fortunately it has been resolved for now. With the article locked it will make it easier to build a consensus on whether removing entire pages of cited material is consistent with wikipedia code of conduct. ; ) Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:34, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Your winky face is falling on blind eyes. I don't care what he did, you still have to be civil. Accusations of "inventing more excuses", calling other editors "hysterical"... these are not civil behaviors and are not consistent with Wikipedia's code of conduct. --Danger (talk) 01:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Referring to edits as hysterical is not uncivil if the edits in question are hysterical. In this case, there is a group of users claiming the article's primary subject is being victim to some israel-propaganda witch-hunt, designed to smear and ruin his name. This has been mentioned repeatedly throughout the discussion and has created an atmosphere of fear-mongering. I really don't like being accused of being party to a smear campaign. As far as the "inventing more excuses" statement goes, consider in context. I imagine I could have approached the situation more cordially. Wikifan12345 (talk) 11:46, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I fail to understand what context has to do with your uncivil behavior. I am sorry that you have apparently learned nothing from your experience with banning and mentoring. I apologize if I have in any way failed you in my capacity as mentor. --Danger (talk) 16:02, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Failed? At least give me the benefit of a doubt. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:31, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The benefit of the doubt is not an infinitely renewable resource. You are engaging in the same sort of behavior that you were a year ago; I thus conclude that you have not changed. That is your perogative, but I hope you understand why I might feel that I've failed. --Danger (talk) 03:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I think your conclusion is slightly premature. I am not engaging in personal attacks, edit-warring, or any sort of major bannable offense. As I conceded earlier I could have been more cordial, but several neutral and uninvolved editors have said my "behavior" is not above the climate established in the talk discussion. Anyways, I've recused myself from the article for now. I've been editing several articles in the I/P area since the ban ended without a problem. My issue with ChrisO's editing is not unique as many other users felt the exact same way, some even more adament then myself. At least appreciate how frustrating it is to be slated for bannishment over a content dispute. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Request for MEDCAB Mediation

The request for mediation concerning Israel and the apartheid analogy, to which you were are a party, has been accepted. Please watchlist the case page (which is where the mediation will take place). If you have any questions, please contact me.

Ronk01 (talk) 03:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Richard Goldstone - new version

You commented recently on some BLP issues concerning Richard Goldstone. I've written a considerably expanded and improved version of the article in my userspace at User:ChrisO/Goldstone. If you have any comments about this new version before it gets transferred into article space, please feel free to comment at Talk:Richard Goldstone#New version. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:22, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Notification: General sanctions and 1RR restriction on Richard Goldstone

You are receiving this message because of your involvement at the Richard Goldstone article. Please don't consider it an assumption of bad faith

As a result of an arbitration case, the Arbitration Committee has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, broadly understood. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad editing restrictions, described here and below.

• Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process.
• The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project.
• Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.
• Discretionary sanctions imposed under the provisions of this decision may be appealed to the imposing administrator, the appropriate administrators' noticeboard (currently WP:AE), or the Committee.

These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor for cause, provided the editor has been previously informed of the case. This message is to so inform you. This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.

Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.

This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged here.

• In relation to the above, you are informed that the Richard Goldstone article is under a blanket 1RR restriction and violations of this restriction will result in escalating blocks and/or topic/page bans. Thank you for your cooperation. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:03, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Please tone it down

I strongly advise that you tone down your incivil and hostile attitude on Talk:Richard Goldstone. I warned you earlier that I was willing to restart my arbitration enforcement request against you. Do not force my hand. -- ChrisO (talk) 01:05, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Notification of arbitration enforcement request

Please note that I have filed an arbitration enforcement request concerning your repeated violations of multiple Wikipedia policies. You can read the request at WP:AE#Wikifan12345 et al. -- ChrisO (talk) 09:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Goldstone article ban

Hello, this is to inform you that, as a result of WP:AE#Wikifan12345 et al and in accordance with Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Discretionary sanctions, you have been banned from editing Richard Goldstone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and its associated talk page for 14 days starting from my timestamp. This restriction also applies to ChrisO (talk · contribs) and Lev Reitblat (talk · contribs) and you may request action against them on my talk page or at WP:AE if you believe they have violated this restriction. Your cooperation on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:14, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:20, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Let our powers combine

I combined the new section you created in the Gaza flotilla article with an identical one here Talk:Gaza_flotilla_raid#new_pictures_and_news_report_of_beaten_israeli_commandos_from_raid for ease of discussion :)

Cheers, Zuchinni one (talk) 08:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I did not see the other section! The talk discussion is so big and very hard to navigate through. Wikifan12345 (talk) 08:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 01:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Mediation: Israel and the Apartheid analogy

Just an FYI, we are running a straw poll on title choices on the mediation page - see Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2010-04-14/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy#Straw_poll_on_titles. If you pitch in a vote or three, we can move this along. --Ludwigs2 06:00, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Just a reminder: you have not yet voted on the straw poll. If you don't, your voice will not be heard on this issue, which would be sad. . --Ludwigs2 06:32, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

---

* Wikifan12345: you did not answer my question on the mediation page, which was a purely technical issue about whether to want to remain signed on to this mediation. Please note that if you are signed on as a mediation participant, you have explicitly given your word to follow mediation rules, meaning that you will

• assume good faith about other participants
• participate seriously to try to resolve the mediation issue
• refrain from personal attacks on other editors

Your last statement [2] violates all three of those principles; I have redacted it.

If you wish to participate, say so now, and please abide by the conversational rules on the page. If you do not wish to abide by the mediation rules (or refuse to answer this question a second time), I will remove you as a participant and redact any of your future comments you make until such a time as you decide to agree to the mediation rules. ok? No offense, but I will not allow the mediation page to devolve to the kind of silly fights that occur on the article talk page. --Ludwigs2 15:24, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Gaza

Hello Wikifan, regarding the edits to Israel and whether the occupation of Gaza has concluded. You reverted saying that humanitarian organizations are not legal bodies, but the text did not say that they are legal bodies. I am sure you know that I can provide many, many more organizations that say this take the view that Gaza is still occupied (including the UNSC SG), so unless you want to spell out 50 different human rights organizations as opposing the view that Gaza is not occupied I do not see why you are listing them out. You also wrote that the status of the gaza strip is not definitive as the west bank, this must be emphasized. Could you tell me how your edit either emphasizes that point more than mine or how my edit gives a definitive status? I specifically avoided saying whether or not Gaza is currently occupied, simply saying that Israel says that it is not and that the UN and humanitarian organizations disagree. How is that not making clear that the status is a matter of dispute? nableezy - 20:16, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

All I did was change "numerous" to what the original sources said. If you have 50 different human rights organizations with opposing view that Gaza is not occupied (a specific POV - not "we agree with the UNHRC") feel free to edit them in. The state of Israel does not dispute the occupation of the WB, but as far as the leadership is concerned its rights as an occupier of Gaza were forfeited after the pull out. If the article is going to state Gaza is occupied according to so and so, then the section should be expanded to represent all perspectives. Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:31, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The article does say that Israel does not consider Gaza occupied (and FYI, the government of Israel does say that the WB is not occupied, the High Court says that it is). If you want to make it clearer that Israel says it is not occupying Gaza feel free. But the article says Israel does not consider the Gaza Strip to be occupied territory and declared it a "foreign territory". How else would you like to "represent all perspectives"? nableezy - 01:58, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Include legal arguments and organizations that support/oppose Gaza's status. No high court has said Gaza is occupied. Israel has exercised (abused) its rights as an occupier in the WB, but it has no rights in Gaza. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

All right, I'll expand on why Israel says Gaza is not occupied. But that does not answer why you want list out each group that says that it is. nableezy - 00:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Unless it becomes redundant, I prefer organizations are enumerated specifically rather than lumped into one big general statement, e.g "numerous human rights groups say...." From my perspective, the paragraph seems one-sided because it doesn't include arguments as to why Israel and other groups reject the label. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:41, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

If I add another 10 organizations and 6 more UN bodies it will get redundant, which is what you invite me to do when you list them out. And there are no arguments for why those organizations say that it is still occupied, I didnt include the line "as Israel controls Gaza's airspace, land borders and territorial waters, it exercises effective military control over the territory and thus continues to occupy it." All the text says is that Israel does not consider Gaza occupied and that the UN and humanitarian organization consider it still occupied. nableezy - 00:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

What other UN bodies besides the UNHRC say Israel is occupying Gaza? Outside of the two major AI and HRWA I haven't seen any notable rights organization that claim Israel is occupying Gaza outside of citing the UNHRC report. I think it would be okay to include the line "as Israel controls Gaza's airspace, land borders, and territorial waters.." but then we'd probably need to be more specific like Israel controls its border with Gaza and airspace, while Egypt controls their border with Gaza and Cyprus/Israel/Egypt/EU observers control and monitor Gaza's territorial waters. I can't find a citation that says this qualifies as a military occupation, as the IDF has no authority in Gaza, which is the principal requirement for being considered a military occupier. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:48, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

UN: Sec Gen ([3]). OCHA ([4]), WHO ([5]), UNICEF ([6]). Could you give me a source saying that Cyprus or Egypt or the EU control Gaza's territorial waters? The requirement for a territory to be considered occupied is exercising "effective military control". This AI source makes the argument that it is occupied:

Israel is the occupying power in the Gaza Strip. In 2005, as part of what it termed “disengagement” from Gaza, Israel removed its settlements and settlers. Yet despite the redeployment of its troops in 2005, the Israeli army has retained effective control over the Gaza Strip. Israel maintains sole control of Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and does not allow any movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza via air or sea. Israel also continues to exercise a degree of control over Gaza’s border with Egypt and Israeli officials have repeatedly made it clear that this border can only be reopened within the framework of a joint agreement with the Palestinian Authority and Egypt.1Israel also continues to control electricity, water and telecommunications in Gaza. It has regularly conducted raids in Gaza, often arresting “wanted” men; and carrying out so-called “targeted killings”, in air strikes which have claimed a high toll on civilians.

But this is really besides the point. You wrote that it "seems one-sided because it doesn't include arguments as to why Israel and other groups reject the label". How can it be one-sided when arguments for why the UN and other groups consider it occupied are not included? nableezy - 04:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

This and the legal arguments against claims of occupation should be included. the Israeli MFA cites article 6 of the 4th GC: the Occupying Power shall be bound for the duration of the occupation to the extent that such Power exercises the functions of government in such territory. MFA says because the Israeli military government has no control over the functioning government of Gaza (Hamas), then it is not occupied. 1907 Hague Territory states: Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.. Legally speaking, international law is better defined by international agreements and conventions, and not opinions of rights groups or UN bodies controlled by states that don't even recognize Israel (UNHRC). I think the section could be expanded to provide a more legal perspective, rather than redundant criticism from x, y and z. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

WP:Tedious edit at Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations

There is guidance from ArbCom that removal of statements that are pertinent, sourced reliably, and written in a neutral style constitutes disruption. If you continue to remove material that represents customary law, official UN and LoN policies, and Palestinian views I'll ask that you be blocked. The Wikipedia:ARBPIA general sanctions require that the published views of all the interested parties be fairly represented. harlan (talk) 05:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree. Threatening to block users because they disagree with edits is a violation of wiki policy and general sanctions. It seems I'm not the the only editor you've threatened to block in the last week. Unless the dispute turns into an aggressive edit-war you won't find an admin that will block a user over a single revert. Try to be more collaborative. Wikifan12345 (talk) 05:14, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Israel lobby

You're quite right. Thea article neeeds work. I think it needs the addition of a great deal of information. And probably substantial restructuring or rearranging to remove the one-source aspect of over-dependence on the on the Walt-Mearshimer book.AMuseo (talk) 01:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Walt-Mearshimier is an ok book but the way editors have cited their claims is wrong. Better to say, "According to Walt...x, y and z" rather than using their findings as fact. If you buy the book and look at the index, they rely heavily on secondary sources and distort records from Haaretz, benny morris, even israel archives. The biggest issue is when something so blatantly false is given a pass simply because it came from the book. This article by Bard describes the Israel lobby in a no-nonsense manner and does not use sweeping generalizations as Walt/Mearshimier do. They are more focused on the philosophy of the lobby and argue it is against US interests, but when actually looking at the policy of Israel lobbyists more often than not they agree with US relations. I think the article could benefit with more info on Jewish/Arab conflict. The Arab lobby is grossly understated and the state departments relations with Arab states isn't even talked about. The definition of Israel lobby is very ambiguous, Walt basically includes every known pro-Israel organization in the USA as being a member of the lobby (CampusWatch, CAMERA, honestreporting, individual academics, etc...) while the same methodology is not applied to the Arab end - and the billions they have donated and pumped into US institutions. I'm just not comfortable doing huge changes on the article because it would probably end in conflict and way too easy to get blocked here. Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Reminder on AfD's

For future reference, it's considered polite to notify the creator of an article when sending it off to AfD. -- Kendrick7^talk 06:21, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Wikifan12345 (talk) 07:24, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle does this automatically.--Danger (talk) 17:58, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Re:Images images images

No, the pictures are not important. You're welcome to change the formatting so that the dotted lines aren't there, that's Twinkle being clumsy, but do not add back the images. J Milburn (talk) 09:27, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

They're being used as icons. The images are not of significance in and of themselves. Non-free content should not be used willy-nilly, we should use it as a last resort and use as little as possible. J Milburn (talk) 09:36, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Wikifan12345. You have new messages at Talk:Military equipment of Israel#Recent reversions of apparently validly sourced material.
Message added 20:28, 7 August 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Please discuss matters on the article talk page - that is what it is there for. Please respect other editors and work together to achieve WP:Consensus. There is also a thread at WP:EAR#accussations of using illegal weapons in the israeli army Jezhotwells (talk) 20:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Why

Why do you have the category "Syrian Wikipedians"? Answer here. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Why do you think? Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:06, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

So what village are you from? Whats your family name? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:23, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

If you want to know family history feel free to email me. The option is available in the toolbox bar. I rather not announce something so private here. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:31, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I have email enabled, send your reply there. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

So do I. Any questions send a message. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:20, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I have already posted two questions above. All that is needed now is that you reply. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Why didn't I receive a mail? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I responded to your email. Wikifan12345 (talk) 09:53, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I didn't receive anything, send it again. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

You're right, it was another editor but I won't reveal his username. Can you please email me your question again? Wikifan12345 (talk) 09:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

You can reply to this. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:57, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Send it to me through the email option. Wikifan12345 (talk) 10:22, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Why would I send it to you through mail when you have already received the questions? All that is left now is for you to reply. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:25, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I have not received any email from you. Wikifan12345 (talk) 10:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

You have already received the questions. All that is left now is for you to reply.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:24, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Which village are you from SD? What's your family name? Chesdovi (talk) 13:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Email. Not gonna advertise this on Wikipedia. Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:40, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Please see my note here. You're under no obligation to respond to these questions, WIkifan12345. Risker (talk) 23:25, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I am curious. did Supreme Deliciousness ever tell you what Palestinian village she is from?AMuseo (talk) 00:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I thought SD was a he? How do you know he's a she? Also, how do you know he/she's a Palestinian refugee who was born in Syria and now lives in the US? Chesdovi (talk) 09:10, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't know a thing about SP except what I can see from her editing, which is aggressive and extremely POV. Something about the way she writes seems teenage girlish to me. She writes in an extremely angry, obsessive, adolescent way. I was also bothered by the demand that Wikifan12345 prove his ethnicity. To me read like a kind of harrassment, and I do think that SP pushes the envelope a lot. It almost seems that she assumes that if she is aggressive and nasty enough for long enough, the other editor will give up and go away. Or get stupid, curse her out and get blocked. Teenage girls do this kind of stuff a lot. Picking on some poor victim until she slugs someone and gets suspended form school. I could be wrong, but if SP's obsessive, petty editing is coming form a grown man or woman, then that is a very, very sad thing. I pity anyone who cannot grow up. But it was more than that. Racial essentialism is a kind of pet peeve of mine. I respect the kind of editor or scholar or journalist who can perceive the validity of an opinion or the realities of a situation without regard to whether the speaker is from Grand Fenwick, Ruritania or the Land of Oz. SP appeared to be implying both that Wiki12345 was a liar and that only people of Syrian ancestry have access to certain kinds of truth. I am morally and intellectually opposed to this position.AMuseo (talk) 15:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't konw why, but I have the feeling SD is in his early forties. Chesdovi (talk) 16:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Discussion on closure of Israel and Aparthied mediation

Current consensus seems to be to move the article to Israel and Apartheid with an appropriate disambiguation line to prevent any misinterpretations. Please weigh in over the next few days. --Ludwigs2 17:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

10/16 is hardly a consensus. Wikifan12345 (talk) 08:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikifan, I do so well understand your frustration and irritation at some of the exchanges on the Talk Page, but given that so many of the editors involved are very quick on the trigger, keen to eliminate all defenders of Israel from Wikipedia discussion or editing, banning them as occurred to one or two editors under Ludwig's leadership/mediation on the name issue, it is better to keep rigidly to the topic and avoid personal comments other than rebuttals to specific substantive claims. Your advice to me to do the same, earlier at the same discussion page, was sensible. To tell the truth, I am surprised but pleased to see that Ludwig actually encouraged your participation. Good for him.Tempered (talk) 08:12, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

You know, I just have to weigh in here. do you guys really see yourselves as 'Defenders of Israel'? If so, please reconsider. This is an encyclopedia: nothing needs to be defended, all that needs to happen is that information needs to be presented in a neutral, unbiased, non-flamatory manner. If you put yourself in the position of defending a position, object, or idea, you really won't get very far (on the internet, combat is bloodless and thus eternal - it's like that stupid episode of star trek); all you will manage to do (eventually) is raise the ire of neutral editors like me, who don't have a stake in the outcome but get truly sick of the screaming. You shouldn't be surprised that I encourage participation - I don't want this article to be biased against Israel any more than I want it to be biased in favor of israel, and those biases can only be removed if people on both sides are participating. But you really need to hang up the 'Defender of Israel' man-tights and get down to simple, basic, cooperative editing. --Ludwigs2 02:27, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a "defender of Israel." Are you? Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:49, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Why would you think that? What have I ever done that would suggest I have any opinion about Israel at all? In fact, I believe you yourself have accused me of being anti-Israeli (an equally bogus claim...). --Ludwigs2 03:06, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

O rlly?:

“ Do you guys really see yourselves as 'Defenders of Israel'? ” — Ludwigs2

I have never accused you of being anti-Israel. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

errr, hello - that was a qute from user:tempered in the paragraph above. I assume he called you that for a reason... --Ludwigs2 04:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi

You've been editing longer than I have, so this is pretty cheeky of me, but I do wish you would count to 10 before you answer people like Supreme Deliciousness, and be very careful what you write, because it truly would not be useful to be blocked form editing. I really do mean this in a friendly way.AMuseo (talk) 00:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Did I violate a rule or something? I'm not gonna a lie I have a history of making edits in talk during a state of emotion, only to regret writing them later. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

No, you didn't. I am only suggesting that you try not to edit "during a state of emotion" because sooner or later you might.AMuseo (talk) 15:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Mentorship

Want to talk? Or at least formally end this thing if you're not interested in continuing? (Sorry for being a bit flaky. See the notice on my talk page. If that's a problem, I can try to find you a mentor less likely to be hospitalized.) --Danger (talk) 18:28, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

No worries, wikipedia is obviously less important than your health. I don't think I'm need of a "mentor" but I guess it would be helpful to have an editor who occasionally watches over my history and checks in with updates/warnings if something is up. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:01, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Will do. --Danger (talk) 01:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Back to 'Racism in Arab Palestuine'oriogional page

This is the orioginal page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Racism_in_Palestine_(Arab_Palestinian_regime,_groups,_population)&redirect=no , whoever has redirected it to "territories" made a mistake, no settlers - relevance here!!! ThanksRS101 (talk) 09:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)