Virginiabob

Didn't realize NPOV, thank you all for letting me know. I will comply in future.

Media Research Center

NPOV does not include removing sourced identifications from MRC's own webpage attesting to their conservativism and adding in "liberal" when MMFA's webpage says conservative. If you disagree with the webpages of these organizations, please provide reliable sources backing up your viewpoint or take it to the article's talk page before you revert. Thank you. Gamaliel (Angry Mastodon! Run!) 16:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, NPOV means making no assumptions about the organizations political leanings whatsoever in the opening sentence.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Virginiabob (talk • contribs)

Well, if an organization describes itself as conservative, it isn't making a biased judgement to acknowledge that, is it? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 17:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

NPOV means making no assumptions at all and instead dealing with the facts, opening sentence or no. What is NPOV about changing MMFA's self-description of "progressive" to "liberal"? Gamaliel (Angry Mastodon! Run!) 17:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by MMFA, but that isn't Media Research Center's self-description. I looked at their official web site, and they describe themselves as "a group of young determined conservatives" with a goal of "to not only prove — through sound scientific research — that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values, but also to neutralize its impact on the American political scene." What sources are you using that describe them as 'liberal?' -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 17:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you've misunderstood. I was referring to this edit. Look at line 25, where virginiabob changes the description of the MMFA from "progressive" to "liberal". Gamaliel (Angry Mastodon! Run!) 17:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, as I said I am a beginner to this site and I am learning. I didn't know about NPOV until later. Now, I'm just trying to apply NPOV consistency across all articles as I see them. You seem to be doing the opposite. My question is why?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Virginiabob (talk • contribs)

I don't believe that to be the case. Perhaps I could understand where you are coming from if you could explain why you think it is NPOV to use the descriptions from the websites of these organizations. Gamaliel (Angry Mastodon! Run!) 17:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The same reason why we can't say liberal or progressive in the opening sentence of the FAIR (fairness in accuracy reporting) page. They say they are progressive in the description on thier own website. Or does NPOV only apply in certain situations? Just looking for some consistency. Thanks for your future reply and I hope to learn more about this site!— Preceding unsigned comment added by Virginiabob (talk • contribs)

NPOV applies in every situation in every article. However, I do not think you are applying it correctly here. Please have a look at WP:NPOV and let me know what part of that policy you feel applies to this situation. And now you agree that MMFA describes themselves as progressive on their website. So does this mean that you now feel that your changing of "progressive" to "liberal" was inappropriate? Also, please sign your discussion posts, which you can do with four tildes (~). Thank you. Gamaliel (Angry Mastodon! Run!) 17:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I already discussed that I was unaware of NPOV when I made the progressive to liberal edit. Thanks for pointing it out once again, although I've already admitted that that was not NPOV, so we are in full agreement. This still does not answer my above question, and I'd appreciate a response. Why can't we say liberal or even progressive on the opening sentence of FAIR, but we must say conservative in the opening sentence of MRC. Does NPOV only apply if the subject is a progressive organization? I'll try the ~ thing now to see what happens and hope that it works Virginiabob 18:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'm glad we've cleared up that matter and we are both in agreement. As far as "Why can't we say liberal or even progressive on the opening sentence of FAIR", apparently you are referring to a dispute at the FAIR article. You cannot label the organization "liberal" in the opening sentence for the same reasons why you cannot in the Media Research Center article, so there is no inconsistency there. As far as the dispute regarding the specific placement of the word "progressive", I am not involved in that dispute so you will have to take that up with the other editors at Talk:Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting. Thank you for signing your posts. Gamaliel (Angry Mastodon! Run!) 18:22, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. I'll bring it up there! Virginiabob 18:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)