Vers2333

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I want to ask you a personal question

Hi, in the article about Central America, in one section you cited a source called "Jason Mandrik, Operation World Statistics (2020)". I would gladly like to know if you could tell me if this source is a website or a printed book and I also would like to find this source myself. Kindest regards. Belson 303 (talk) 09:48, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

No problem. About the source, unfortunately, the official page privatized religious information in a graphic chart that previously they haved, but the online book is avaliable although not all countries, the issue is that sources like Latinobarometro estimates great percentages of non-religious in central american and the whole Latin American region with percentages that rounds 15-45% with a media of 20%, also, the Pew Forum estimates a little bit graunted percentage of protestants, I think Operation World doesnt subestimate the Catholicism in the region, in fact im not catholic. Greetings. https://operationworld.org/prayer-resources/countries-alphabetically/ , https://books.google.com.gt/books?id=6EOsBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA380&dq=jason+mandryk+operation+world+Guatemala&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjIupzZ8eL7AhURTDABHWYbA6YQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=jason%20mandryk%20operation%20world%20Guatemala&f=false Vers2333 (talk) 16:24, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Guatemala

Hi Vers2333, hope you are having a good day. I noticed an edit you made on belief in God and atheism statistics for Guatemala on a few wikipages. I looked at your source [1] and it says 0.42% are atheists and 0.95% are agnostics under the extensive break down of groups. It seems you used the question "Percent believing in God." for saying that 41% do not believe in a God since the source says "58.9%". I looked at it further and it seems they have a typo with that number because all other metrics in the same source are much higher than that (63.9% believe in heaven, 70.8% believe in hell and more specifically "Percent praying to God more than once per week." is 95.5%). I investigated further. I looked up the source of "Percent believing in God." in ARDA, which they cite was World Values Survey (WVS), and saw: "Believe in God" was 96.4% Believe in God - World Values Survey 2017-2022 for that source. I corrected the numbers on those pages to reflect both sources (ARDA for affiliation and WVS for belief). Ramos1990 (talk) 05:20, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Its unfair that other editor found some source that estimates large number of irreligious people in their countries nobody quest it, for example non-academic sources that estimate Mexico being 38% irreligious, the inconsistent Latinobarometro data starting the case of Argentina (21% irreligious in 2018, 49% in 2020), the inconsistent surveys in Costa Rica and Chile (countries when in from 2011 to 2021 passed from 10-18% to 27-40% respectively), demographically its impossible, unless in cases of genocide, massive migration, etc. In past years reliable sources stipulated Guatemala as one of least religious countries in Latin America, along being one of most evangelical-protestant, but in recent years they remplaced data for all countries and Guatemala figures as the most religious, the proofs [2] [3] page 77-78 (the case of PROLADES: in their statistics, Central American countries figures as the least religious region in Latin America only behind Uruguay as country, unfortunately the web is no longer avaliable). [ARDA Source was the most reliable free source in web https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guatemala&oldid=1104888252#Religion] because they haved an evolution line from 1800 to most of countries, and their evolution was more consistent and realistic because the anual changes on religious were passive and harmonius, in their data of non-religious guatemalans brake the growth at 12.7% in 2001 (12.45% in 2000, 12.2% in 1999, 11.95% in 1998), and since 2001 the evolution line decreased 0.1% per year from example 12.6% in 2002, 12.5% in 2003, 11.3% in 2015, unfortunately they changed all their data and know is a little bit inaccurate, how in 1970, 17% of guatemalas could be "non-denominational christian"?, the non-denominational christian is a branch of protestantism and those time the country was nearly all Catholic. Vers2333 (talk) 14:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi. I hear what you are saying but keep in mind that irreligion is not what these surveys are capturing. These surveys clump people who have no religion, atheist, agnostic into one category, but when analyzed further, belief in God is very high even in this group. Atheist and agnostics are minorities in the no religion/unaffilaited group. When people express they have "no religion", it does not means they do not have belief in God. So these categories must be kept in context. Here is an example from the US with the "unaffiliated" (which includes no religion, atheist and agnostics): "While much of the media - as well as non-religious advocacy groups - honed on the fact that "unaffiliated" category was growing, Pew stressed their finding that most unaffiliated adults had religious and spiritual leanings. According to the Pew survey, 68% of the unaffiliated said they believed in God; more than a third described themselves as "spiritual but not religious"; and 21% said they prayed every day. This report provided evidence that that people who check "nothing in particular" are not uniformly non-religious; many are individuals who are unaffiliated with traditional religious structures like churches or synagogues but still engage in religious practices and hold religious beliefs." (Johnson, Todd; Zurlo, Gina (2016). "Unaffiliated, Yet Religious: A Methodological and Demographic Analysis". In Cipriani, Roberto; Garelli, Franco (eds.). Annual Review of the Sociology of Religion: Volume 7: Sociology of Atheism. Leiden: Brill. pp. 58–60. ISBN 9789004317536.)

I also clicked on your link [4] and clicked on the source (#231 which is ARDA) for that table. The table is wrong. The source 231 shows that the "Nonreligion" category in the 1900-2050 chart was 0.2% in 1970, 1.3% in 2000 and 1.4% in 2020. All of this looks consistent with other sources (WVS). The "12.45% in 2000, 12.2% in 1999, 11.95% in 1998" are not found in that source. Ramos1990 (talk) 20:03, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi, about the first argument, Im totally agreed. Specially in United States, Argentina and Chile most of "nones" are unaffiliated protestants or dissidents catholics, here in Central America we understand more that believe in the Abrahamic God is being Christian no matter the personal church attendance.

About the second argument, yeah, the updated statistics of ARDA, Guatemala is the most religious country in Latin America with only 1.4% of nones, but in their previous statistics (an evolution timeline from 1800 to 2015) the nones were 11.3% in Guatemala (Indifferents+Atheits), being the fourth less religious country in the region behind El Salvador 16.3%, Cuba 21.6% and Uruguay 41.8% [5] [6].

Greetings Vers2333 (talk) 20:45, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

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