Urszag

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• , equivalently {{lang|grc|Ἥρη}}, ''Hērē'', in [[Ionic dialect|Ionic]] and [[Homeric dialect|Homer]]) is the wife and one of three sisters of [[Zeus]] in the [[Twelve Olympians|Olympian pantheon]] of [
• <ref>[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De)rato%2Fs ἐρατός] at [[LSJ]]</ref> as Zeus is said to have married her for love.<ref>[[Plato]], [[

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Bring

Hi Urszag, Please see my comments at Talk:List of English irregular verbs and attend to the problem. I don't want us just reverting each other, so am giving you a chance to think/talk about the problem and fix your own text. If you don't, I will delete the whole paragraph. --Doric Loon (talk) 08:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

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Barnstar

	The Original Barnstar
	For your meticulous research and work on the article Palatalization in the Romance languages. — Nicodene (talk) 01:11, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Nicodene Thank you! I've learned some interesting new stuff in the past few days while working on this—of course, there's still a lot more that can be added to it, which is why I'm happy about having it split off as its own article.--Urszag (talk) 04:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

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Stress and vowel reduction

I haven't gone through the sources on the page (at least not recently) but I know that Wells certainly uses "weak and strong vowels" which may be where I've read the most -- just so you know where I'm coming from. Wolfdog (talk) 22:02, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

@Wolfdog: Oh right, to be clear, "weak and strong vowels" are certainly real terms (not discussed much in the article yet--I only see a link to "weak vowel merger"--so more could be added to the article about this terminology). The reason I reverted your edit was because "weak vowels and strong vowels" refers to a different (although related) concept from the terminology of "weak and strong forms of words", and the section was about the latter concept. It's discussed (with the variant spelling "weakform") in this blog post by Jack Windsor Lewis, who defines it as "an alternant form of a word so reduced in its articulation that it consists of a different set of phonemes".--Urszag (talk) 22:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see the distinction now. Great article -- thanks! What do you thinking of changing the section heading from "words" to "function words"? (Otherwise, we may think it refers to words generally, leading to my original mixup.) Wolfdog (talk) 23:29, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

That seems reasonable to me, since the section restricts itself to discussing function words, although Windsor Lewis points out in another blog post ("How English is Really Pronounced") that there are "other parallel weakenings that happen to non-function words" (e.g. " /`sɜːtni/" for certainly or "/ˈjuːʒəli/" for usually).--Urszag (talk) 23:36, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

OK, great! The certainly one shocks me, while the usually one is absolutely my own pronunciation. Weird!

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Intense consonants of Old Romanian

Hi @Urszag

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you again for your work and main contribution to "Palatalization in the Romance languages". It is a great article.

Given your knowledge on such topic, I would also like to ask you for advice on a similar matter. In the article Old Romanian the source (Introduction - 1.2 Phonological features of old Romanian) says that:

"After consonants characterized as ‘intense’, the front vowels /e, i/ undergo velarization"

I added these consonants (n and r allophones) to a wikitable in the form nˠ and rˠ but I am unsure if this is the correct way of marking them. Any suggestions on this?

Aristeus01 (talk) 08:04, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm glad you like the palatalization article! "Intense" is not a very clear phonetic description by itself. I would not be confident that it refers to velarized consonants, although it might (given that would be a plausible reason for them to velarize vowels). In fact, sometimes we cannot reconstruct the exact phonetic value of historical phonemes. I would advise looking for additional sources that provide more detailed discussion of these sounds.

I found a reference to the "intense" r in The Oxford History of Romanian Morphology, chapter 6 The verb (Martin Maiden, Adina Dragomirescu, Gabriela Pană Dindelegan, Oana Uță Bărbulescu, Rodica Zafiu) which says a little bit more:

"the thematic vowel i [i], together with all other front vowels that come immediately after the root, has undergone a phonological process of centralization triggered by the preceding consonant. In standard Romanian, this conditioning environment was a rhotic. More specifically, it appears that what triggered centralization was a historically underlying ‘intense’ rhotic: *[rr] ( e.g. *orˈrire > urî ‘hate’; see Morariu 1925: 68–9, Densusianu 1938: 23, 37, Rothe 1957: 20, 108–9, Schulte 2005, Renwick 2014: 51–2). The subsequent loss of distinction between intense and simple rhotics means that the conditioning environment for centralization after rhotics is lost, some verbs in root-final [r] showing the centralized vowel and others not (see Pană Dindelegan 1987: 71)."

The use of the notation [rr] suggests to me that the authors here view 'intensity' as a matter of duration (or maybe that was just its original source). I accessed that through the Wikipedia Library; I hope you can too and can follow up on the references cited in this passage. I might also look more into this, but I unfortunately don't have any time left to do it today.--Urszag (talk) 08:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to shine light on this.

Yes, the source is available to me. The information is very interesting and it helps me understand the topic better. I will follow your advice and perhaps I can find even more RS describing or even comparing it to rhotics in other languages which would help cite the more appropriate symbol in regards to phonetic precision.

Much appreciated! Aristeus01 (talk) 09:18, 7 March 2024 (UTC)