User talk:Urashimataro/Archive01

Welcome!

Hello, Urashimataro, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Translations

Hello! That's a good question. Professional translators include the references and notes from the works they're translating, so I think Wikipedia can do the same. I do. If you can, it might be helpful to include a "Further reading" section which lists useful books in the language that you are translating to as a help to the reader. You quite often see that kind of thing in professional translations too, called a "supplementary bibliography" or something like that. I hope this answers your question. If not, please let me know. Best regards, Angus McLellan (Talk) 01:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

不忍池

不忍池の件で日本語版の方にメッセージ頂きましたNoSaito (talk)です。出典の件ですが、不忍池のほとりにある下町風俗資料館の資料および置いてあったパンフレットを見て書いたものです。--NoSaito (talk) 16:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Kita-kamakura

I noticed that you accidentally created this page, and that a redirect in case does not seem necessary. Can I recommend that you place {{csd-g7}} on the page so that it will be removed? --Auto ^{(talk / contribs)} 06:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Japan and other resources

Hi Urashimataro,

Thanks for helping with Japan-related articles on Wikipedia, and for your inquiry on my talk page. Here's an invitation to visit Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan. There, you can meet other Wikipedians working on articles related to Japan. You'll find lists of new articles, projects, and activities. The section Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan#Article assessment tells you how you can assess and put the project template in articles (which you asked about). You'll also find links to resources such as

• Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles), with decisions the community has made about how to format articles
• Template:Newest Japan-related articles, where you can list the articles you create so the community can see them
• Portal:Japan, a collection of resources on Japan
• Wikipedia:Japan-related topics notice board, for notifying the community of topics of interest

Hope to see you there!

Best regards,

Fg2 (talk) 06:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Kamakura's Seven Mouths

Hi Urashimataro, and thanks for starting the article Kamakura's Seven Mouths. I wonder, though, if we can consider a different translation instead of "mouth"? It's been on my mind based on the article on Kamakura, and now that there's a whole article on it I thought I'd bring up the topic.

The kanji is the same one that's in iriguchi and deguchi, so I'd lean toward "entrance" instead of "mouth." Unless there's an important distinction between an entrance and an exit, it seems fine. How would you feel about that? Fg2 (talk) 10:00, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Fg2, and thanks for bothering to ask the question. When it comes to translations I tend to be a literalist, and that's why I used Mouths, but in the end in this case I have no strong feelings one way or the other. I usually find your changes to be reasonable and useful. Feel free to change things as you see fit, but please do put a redirect where Seven Mouths was. That would be the first thing I would look for (but I am a literalist ...). Take care. -- Urashimataro (talk) 12:09, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

In no way do I dispute the very clear logic of Fg2's reasoning above -- not at all. Nevertheless, I do think that a very brief mention of the single word "mouth" needs to be incorporated as an alternate anthropomorphic term -- not only in this specific article but also in the articles on Kyoto and Tokyo ....

See Talk:Kamakura, Kanagawa#Urban "Mouths" as a useful term of art

If this minor topic needs a more fully developed explanation, we could set this aside for now and perhaps agree to re-visit it in late-Autumn? --Tenmei (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Impoverishment

Sometimes a word will strike me as extraordinarily apt, accurate, well-chosen. For me, your use of the term "impoverished" was something of a rare event. In translation, you say that you are a something of a literalist; and indeed the your word choice is precise and clear in this instance. For me, the encounter with your sentence was one of those occasions when a word balances on the edge of a sharp blade -- expressing an idea which is denotatively exact and yet figuratively expansive, connoting more.

The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English | Date: 2008

• im·pov·er·ish / imˈpäv(ə)rish/ • v. [tr.] make (a person or area) poor: they discourage investment and impoverish their people | [as adj.] (impoverished) impoverished peasant farmers.
  • exhaust the strength, vitality, or natural fertility of: the soil was impoverished by annual burning | [as adj.] (impoverished)
  • figurative: -- an impoverished and debased language.
  • DERIVATIVES: im·pov·er·ish·ment n.

My 1933 edition of the unabridged Oxford English Dictionary (OED) mentions an 1860 illustrative use of the term as applied to language; but the broader, contemporary use of this term in relation to broad abstract concepts -- as in "cultural impoverishment" -- became a late-20th century phenomenon. I can't begin to guess how anyone else would see it, but in positioning the word "improverishment" at the specific nexus of the Tsurugaoka Hachiman Shrine and Shinbutsu bunri, it seemed to me that you created the kind of finely parsed usage which the editors of the 2037 edition of the OED seek to capture.

With this word choice, you effectively encompass an 1868 genesis of the Meiji period's 1897 Law for the Preservation of Ancient Shrines and Temples and also -- simultaneously -- you anticipate the non-scholarly perspective of most 21st century tourists in Kamakura.

In this context, it's very difficult to modulate either praise or criticism. I have good reason to fear that my observations here will be construed as over-blown, of course.

Please try to accept this as the more balanced and thoughtful comment of a mere colleague or distant collaborator. This is only a minor point, but high quality is comprised of such relatively minor elements, don't you think? --Tenmei (talk) 19:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Kanjō

I have rescinded my nomination for speedy deletion of the article Kanjō. I see you have added to it so it is more than a list of references, and a substantial article on Japan. I am sorry for the inconvenience of nominating it when you were going to expand it, I was just patrolling the new pages.

On a different note, I want to thank you for creating Japanese related articles. Many important topics fall through the cracks in respect to various Japanese topics, and as someone who also enjoys editing and creating articles of Japanese significance, I appreciate that there are those out there dedicated to improving Wikipedia's articles on many overlooked topics.

Cheers! Scapler (talk) 07:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

The photo of Moto Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū shrine

The photo of Moto Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū shrine is thought that this image is improper to represent the Shinto shrine.

Please let me hear the reason to which the image of the oldest Shinto shrine (national treasure of Japan) in Japan that is the image that I arranged and the image of the Shinto shrine of World Heritage are improper. それから、日本語で会話してもよいでしょうか？--663highland (talk) 07:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

写真は神社の定義の一部です。神社の基本的な構造はどれか示すように、わざとできるだけシンブルな神社の写真を選びました。663highlandの写真はそれにふさわしくないです。

urashimataro (talk) 08:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

そのような理由であるなら、urashimataroさんの写真は、鳥居の一部も拝殿も隠れています。ならば、Image:Tosa-jinja01s3872.jpgの方が相応しいと思われませんか？--663highland (talk) 08:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

663highlandさんは私が言っていることが分からないという気がします。Image:Tosa-jinja01s3872.jpgには鳥居と社の玄関しか見えないが、私の写真には神社全体に見えます。写真のコメントを読んでください。元八幡には鳥居と神殿しかありません。構いません。そんなに私が使った写真は入れ替えたいなら、どうぞ。 urashimataro (talk) 05:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

日本語で議論していただき、ありがとうございます。「私が使った写真は入れ替えたいなら、どうぞ。」とのことですが、urashimataroさんが納得した上でurashimataroさんが画像を入れ替えてください。理由は次のとおりです。

例えば、仮に「イタリアの神殿」という記事が存在したとします。その記事の冒頭の写真が「小さな小屋」だったら、イタリア人であるurashimataroさんは、どのように感じますか? 「パラティヌスの丘に建つPantheon」の方が相応しいと思いませんか? つまり、これが私の今回の編集の動機です。その編集を「Vandalism」とされたので、私はもう画像を入れ替える気はありません。

記事内容に即した画像が相応しいというurashimataroさんのお考えを尊重しようと思ったからです。そこでImage:Tosa-jinja01s3872.jpgをより良い例として提案しました。この画像には鳥居と拝殿のほぼ全体が写っており、その背後に本殿の屋根が見えます。神社の記事の冒頭には拝殿の説明もされているので適切であると考えた次第です。別の例のImage:Kaibara hachiman jinja09 2048.jpg（複合社殿=拝殿+本殿）も適切であると考えます。一方、Image:Moto-Hachiman-the-whole-temple.jpgの神殿（=本殿）と鳥居は、一部が隠れており、拝殿も存在しません。いかがでしょうか? どうぞ、お考えをお聞かせください。--663highland (talk) 14:13, 12 August 2008 (UTC)16:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

これ以上議論する必要はないと思います。私の意見と663highlandさんの意見はまったく違います。As far as the vandalism is concerned, I apologize, but you made important changes (and in my view wrong) to the article without explaining why, and that's against rules. I understand you don't like to write in English, but this is English Wikipedia, and rules are rules. If you change the article, and you explain what you did and why.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you don't read English well enough to understand what I was saying, and what you say now confirms it. Your pictures aren't suitable for what I am doing. If you want to change the picture, go ahead, the article will be good enough anyway. And with this, I consider the case closed. Today I leave for a vacation and won't be back for a month. 宜しくお願致します。urashimataro (talk) 01:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Inamuragasaki DYK

On 20 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Inamuragasaki, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

— Dan1980 (talk ♦ stalk) 19:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

1219 assassination at Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gu

What I've done provides unhelpful answers, but I hope that useful questions were clarified. At best, this is only a small step in a constructive direction -- see Talk: Minamoto no Sanetomo#Assassination#Romanization of name and specific date of event. I wonder what you'll make of this; and in fact, I wonder if there might be a better way to grapple with this discrepancy in dates? --Tenmei (talk) 18:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I modified your posting here. There is a convention against modifying another editor's posting, but this may be one of the rare cases in which there is no problem. You copied a footnote from Minamoto no Sanetomo, but only the words were copied -- not the links to the reference sources. I think the blue font for those links makes the text easier to read. If this presents a problem for you, please let me know. --Tenmei (talk) 02:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

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DYK for Gongen

On 12 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Gongen, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 11:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Kamakura Kaido

I'm trying to put together what I can about the Kamakura Kaido. With the advantage of your location, if you have additional information that can be added, that would be most appreciated.

Bryan MacKinnon (talk) 10:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Bryan. I will oblige with pleasure. Kamakura is one of my pet projects, so collaborating with you at this is also part of my interests. Will take a look at my books and will let you know. urashimataro (talk) 10:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Taiheiki

You left a comment at WP:MOS-JP but then hastily removed it. I have Taiheiki in the 日本古典文学大系. This passage is in volume 34 on page 336. I'm in a bit of a hurry, but here is a quick translation:

Dismounting from his horse, Yoshisada removed his helmet and prostrating himself across the distant seas prayed to Ryūjin. "It is said that the lord of Japan from the beginning, Amaterasu Ōmikami, enshrined at Ise Jingū, hid herself within a Vairocana and appeared as Ryūjin of the vast blue seas. My lord (Emperor Go-Daigo) is her descendant, and drifts upon waves of the western sea due to rebels. I Yoshisada, in an attempt to serve as a worthy subject, will pick up my axes and face the enemy line. That desire is to aid the nation and bring welfare to the masses. Ryūjin of the Eight Protectorate Gods of the (seven) Inner Seas and the Outer Sea, witness this subject’s loyalty and withdraw the waters afar, open a path to the lines of the three armies."

If you need any more details let me know. Bendono (talk) 12:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Bendono, and many thanks for the translation. I had found a version in more modern Japanese, but it was still hard to understand. I had noticed that English sources invariably speak of Amaterasu, while Japanese never do. They speak either of Ryūjin or of a sea-god, and I wanted to know for sure what was going on because of the article Inamuragasaki I have written. Now I know. Thanks again.

urashimataro (talk) 23:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC) One more note: I have re-read the passage and, with your help, now I understand it. I had noticed the honji - suijaku pair, but hadn't put two and two together.

---

It's also worth noting that there were/are, as Helen McCullough explains, multiple versions of the Taiheiki and when she was translating it, had to overcome numerous and inconsistencies. Could it be that some versions just differ? Also, may I suggest that this discussion be moved to the discussion section of the actual Wikipedia Entry for the Siege of Kamakura? It is of general interest and we won't be the last to discuss it.

Bryan MacKinnon (talk) 08:05, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for yorishiro

On 20 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article yorishiro, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done Victuallers (talk) 07:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Koten Bungaku

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DYK for Shichirigahama

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Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 23:03, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Wiktionary: Kamakura

Hello. Thanks for all of the work that you have been doing for Kamakura-related articles. I just wanted to let you know that I created a Wiktionary entry for 鎌倉. I added all of the details to the Wikipedia article several months ago, but this time I quoted the actual passages in the new entry. Feel free to add to it if you have more. Bendono (talk) 12:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Bendono, and thanks again for that extremely useful translation you made for me. Thanks also for introducing me to Wiktionary: until yesterday I didn't even have an account. I will start contributing, if I can, as soon as I know how it's done. I will start with Kamakura.

urashimataro (talk) 23:42, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

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DYK for Wakamiya Ōji

On 29 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Wakamiya Ōji, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 06:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Please be careful and have a good day

I know this was a accident, have a good day. — Realist² 23:00, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Whoops...? LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:00, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I am very sorry. The only reason I didn't even try to fix the problem was fear of doing worse.

urashimataro (talk) 04:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

No content in Category:Shichirigahama

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Category:Shichirigahama, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Category:Shichirigahama has been empty for at least four days, and its only content has been links to parent categories. (CSD C1).

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Gokenin/Florian Fricke

Hi U.T., I reverted changes you made to Gokenin, replacing it with the contents of Florian Fricke. It looks like you thought you were working in your user space, or made a cut-and-paste mistake. Hope it's all right. In any case, the changes you made are available in the article history in case you need them. Best regards, Fg2 (talk) 04:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Atherosclerosis advances. Sorry.urashimataro (talk) 04:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Kantō kubō

On 21 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kantō kubō, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 06:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Kenin (Japanese feudal system)‎

Hi Urashimataro, and thanks for editing Kenin (Japanese feudal system)‎. I wonder if the definition you added applies to the time period specified in both the title and the first sentence of the article. Does it apply to the feudal system, or was it obsolete by then? Should we change the title? Fg2 (talk) 09:33, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Fg2. That was fast ... I understand what you say, and I realize I kept some words from the old version of the article without thinking too much about it. Thanks for the warning. According to the Kōjien, Kenin can also be a synonym of Gokenin, but even so the title isn't really correct. Kenin and Gokenin can refer to two very different things, and the difference should be made very clear. For the time being I added a line to the article specifying that Kenin can also be a synonym of Gokenin. What do you think a good title would be? "Kenin (Japanese historical term)"? I am planning a revision of the Gokenin article, and I think the relationship between the two terms should be made as clear as possible. I must think about what is to be done. urashimataro (talk) 09:54, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if I wrote too soon! It's good that you're still improving it.

On the subject of a title, Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Naming the specific topic articles has a paragraph recommending simplicity. That might guide us toward Kenin (Japanese history). Removing "term" also takes it out of the realm of the dictionary definition: the title states that the article is about kenin, not about the word "kenin." We could also go in the other direction and keep the idea of a class or status while removing the idea of Japan and/or history; if you can think of a name that would be suitable, why not give it a try.

While you're on these subjects, if you can write one-line definitions for Glossary of Japanese history, they'd be valuable additions there too.

Thanks again for tackling these two articles -- and happy new year! Fg2 (talk) 10:52, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the good advice. And a HNY to you too. I didn't know about the glossary. Have several items to add.

urashimataro (talk) 12:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

File:Shinobazu-Pond-contour.gif listed for deletion

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File:Shinobazu-Pond-map-black.gif listed for deletion

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