User talk:Tim1965/TalkArchives14

Missoula Public Library Wikipedia Workshop Barnstar

		Missoula Public Library Wikipedia Workshop 2013 Barnstar
		Thank you for helping make Wiki Loves Libraries 2013: Missoula Public Library Wikipedia Workshop January 4, 2013 a success! Here's to more meetups, new friends, and new photos and articles by and for Wikipedians in Montana. Djembayz (talk) 18:40, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Yay!

Glad to see Paris Gibson Square Museum of Art, nice work! Montanabw^(talk) 19:33, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks! Boy, that one took a lot of work, too. Did you see Ursuline Academy (Great Falls, Montana) and J. C. Adams Stone Barn? Just finished those, too. I'm working on Arvon Block now. I wish I had some interior shots of both Ursuline Academy and the Adams Stone barn, and some shots of the back sides of both structures, too. And I wish I had front and rear shots of the Arvon Block, too. (That's about to be radically renovated.) I tell ya, if I had the cash, I'd made a trip to Great Falls for a week just to do photographs of every damn thing in town!! - Tim1965 (talk) 20:05, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

As you can tell from my commons uploads, I do get up to GF from time to time, and if I do an overnight, we usually stay downtown. If you have zilch on something that is at least in town, I'll take requests. No guarantees I'll get anything in a particular time frame (particularly now that it's winter and the snow is in that "dirt covered and icky" stage) but I will keep things in mind. But I'd NEVER discourage anyone from booking a visit to Montana - you need to go back to the source, man! Montanabw^(talk) 01:21, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Dave Beck

Hi, Tim! I know it was a heck of a long time ago, but in 2007, you fleshed out the article on Dave Beck, but the ISBN you gave for Blood in the Water (9990014981) is invalid (probably just a typo). I was hoping you might still have access to it, or wherever you obtained the information, and that you would be willing to check. Thanks, Storkk (talk) 11:29, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• I picked the ISBN off Amazon.com. I tried the 979 ISBN, which seems to work. (But then, so did the 10-digit ISBN for me.) I have no way of checking if an ISBN is correct or not, though. I assume such a system exists, but I don't know where it is or how to use it. - Tim1965 (talk) 16:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Tim... unfortunately both numbers Amazon gives are invalid. I've added an HTML note to the page -- there are so many trivially easy ISBN errors on Wikipedia right now that I think I'll just come back to the more difficult ones later. It's probably of little use to you outside this specific issue, but since you asked: there is an algorithm on ISBN that describes how to check - alternatively, isbn.org has a converter. Thanks again, Storkk (talk) 11:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

• I tried this using the [ISBN tool]. The ISBN was not found at WorldCat, Internet Book Database, LibraryThing, OttoBib.com, or Copyright Clearance Center. But it was found at aNobii, Goodreads, Shelfari, and Open Library. A search by ISBN at Library of Congress finds nothing, but there is an entry for the work. I'm so inexpert in ISBN, I don't know what that means. - Tim1965 (talk) 15:13, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:Labor

I see you reverted my edit to Template:Labor. I'm not in an arguing mood, so I'll try to make this simple.

Benefits to my revision

WP:CONSISTENCY is abided by in full, such as in Labor unions in the United States.

Benefits to your revision

I'm not seeing any at all. Do you care to give me one?

Also, in your edit summary, you state that the template "uses both British and American spellings of Labour/Labor". This is only really true in one case, and that is in the labor history link. I changed this to labour in my revision (again, for consistency). The other link to Australian Labor Party doesn't count because the Australian Labor Party is an organization. Dzylon (talk) 14:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

• Sure, I'll make it very simple for you, so you can understand: Trade unions in the United Kingdom is but one example. The project covers labor/labour worldwide, not just in the U.S. The template was actually set up using British spelling, but after much discussion the WikiProject decided that the consistency rule should be broken as a compromise. I'm not willing to argue about it, so I'll leave it at that. - Tim1965 (talk) 15:19, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to keep this civil, so I'll ignore that little quip about you needing to dumb down your logic so that I can understand it. The template is an international one. I know that. You still haven't given me any reason to believe your revision is superior to my own. I added a simple switch allowing the replacement of labour with labor on certain pages. Read: certain. The default spelling remains labour. Tell me: in what way was my change not beneficial? Dzylon (talk) 16:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

WP:DNB

If you're not willing to have a conversation with me about this, I'm going to go ahead and revert your edit. Thanks. Dzylon (talk) 21:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

• Don't worry, I'm ignoring your "simple" line, too. - Tim1965 (talk) 01:12, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

What? Why would you ignore my "simple" line? Perhaps you misunderstood. Not my problem.

Anyway, seeing as you're not willing to provide any reasonable argument in defense of your edit, I reverted it. Good day to you, sir. Dzylon (talk) 07:06, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Cheers!

	A platter of oysters
	For your citation-filled expansion of the article "oyster bar" from a mere stub. Morgan Riley (talk) 01:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

New articles

You've put up several really nice new articles. Why didn't you put them up for DYK? PumpkinSky talk 14:05, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm done with DYK. I don't mind having to approve someone else's DYK submission... Yes, it's a bit of a pain, having just spent weeks on a well-crafted article, and then having to spend more energy on an administrative task. It's the rules that are killing me. There are now a whopping 60 rules to follow. There used to be just five. I've approved dozens of DYKs, and yet in the past two years I've had people (many of whom neveer write articles, just enforce rules) come out of the woodwork overturn my approvals of other people's DYK hooks because they took issue with some ultra-minor point about the article.

Furthermore, when my articles are self-nominated, I am getting nitpicked to death. For example, when I nominated the five-fold expanded article The Haunting in September 2012 (in plenty of time to make the Halloween DYK), DYK took six weeks to approve it. Why? Because in a B-class article, someone didn't like that one fact (leftover from the original article) which was not in the hook was not cited. And because the DYK approvers couldn't stop arguing over a (leftover) Rotten Tomatoes claim -- which, again, was not related to the hook. And because DYK reviewers thought the article (which was Halloween-related, but not about the holiday itself) was not appropriate and they imposed an unwritten new rule that essentially delayed it until 10 days after Halloween. Ultimately, DYK reviewers wanted the article in pristine shape -- not just decent shape like Start-class or C-class. They were passing review on the article in its entirety and demanding that it be in perfect (not mostly perfect, not 95 percent perfect, not 99 perfect) B-class shape. I spent a whole month answering these nitpicks, instead of working on another article. No one recognized the quality of the article; quality no longer matters. Process was more important than quality.

I understand why DYK has been hijacked by rule-enforcing nitpickers who have little to contribute to the encyclopedia: Some articles (not the hooks) which have gotten on Wikipedia's front page have made patently wrong or outlandish (and almost always uncited) claims, and Wikipedia was embarrassed when the mass media pointed out "the nonsense Wikipedia is promoting". Some of the articles got onto DYK were in very poor shape (e.g., lacked citations for everything but the hook, full of spelling errors), and that was embarrassing, too. Some articles that got onto DYK also were full of plagiarism or close-paraphrasing, and Wikipedia got into trouble with authors and publishers about this. But instead of fixing these problems, DYK imposed a vast number of new rules — and a host of unwritten ones, as well — which make it very difficult for a well-written, well-cited, in-depth article to pass muster. I'd be better off tossing C-class articles onto DYK, because it seems those get approved very quickly.

DYK is just too onerous a process now. I don't care if others nominate my articles. I just won't self-nominate any more. (And yes, I'm sad about that. Barnstars are cute, but it's not public recognition for someone's high-quality contribution the way DYK is.) - Tim1965 (talk) 14:48, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

That's too bad and I understand. It's symptomatic of a larger problem that I see no end to. What if I and MTBW nom them and deal with it? PumpkinSky talk 17:42, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

• Oh, I'm totally cool with that. I have no problem if others want to be beaten up by the process. LOL! But then, you survived that horror with the Yogo sapphire article. You can survive anything. - Tim1965 (talk) 19:16, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

• OK, let us know when you make a new article then. PumpkinSky talk 19:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Done-Template:Did you know nominations/Washington Harbour, but we prefer Montana articles ;-) PumpkinSky talk 20:11, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

• LOL!!! I'm working on a St. Peter's Mission one now! - Tim1965 (talk) 20:29, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Tim, will be in Great Falls late today and tomorrow. MIGHT have time to snap a couple pics in the downtown area. (as in a couple free hours, not a lot of time) if you have anything critical that needs a pic and don't mind a bit of winter drab or even snow in an outside image (may melt by tomorrow, or there could be more...), give me a holler. Won't be going out by Vaughn or via Hwy 200 at all, just up I-15 and back, hanging out downtown. (No, this does not mean my home will be empty and abandoned for all burglars...). And yes, I'm with Psky on helping with DYK as time permits. Montanabw^(talk) 18:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

That sound you heard was me, letting out a little bit of squee. I could not care less about dirty snow or winter drab! It's Montana, fer chrissake... it's still winter there until the Easter blizzard comes through. (Our cherry trees in D.C. just started budding.) My requests:

1. The Arvon Block, 114-116 First Avenue South
2. The Margaret Block, 413-415 Central Avenue
3. Anything from the Historic Railroad District, Historic Business District, or Historic North Side Residential District. You can find a map here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23165290@N00/8569762318/ . On the map, it's anything in blue, purple, or purple-grey. Now, you could do double-duty by snapping a photo of Central Avenue, and then doing a second one specifically of the Margaret Block on Central Avenue. We've already got a nice shot of the very tall Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul Depot tower, so if you photograph anything in the old railroad district you can do without that one.
4. A head-on shot of the Civic Center (which Central Avenue runs smack into).
5. I will make a reach here, and ask for one of the Four Seasons Arena. That's not downtown, it's over on the fairgrounds. But there is an article already about it, but zilcho in the way of an image.

Thanks for making the offer! Even if you have no time to do anything, the offer is really appreciated!!! - Tim1965 (talk) 18:59, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Should be able to shoot stuff downtown if it isn't snowing tomorrow afternoon. The 6th bypass is the shortest route to I-15 from downtown, so stuff on the west side MIGHT be doable, depending on how desperate I am to leave; Four Seasons probably easiest, what is there of the Fairgrounds in general? You HAVE already seen all the shots I took last summer of Gibson Park, didn't you? (See my commons contribs, took mostly of the pond, but one of the bandshell, the Paris Gibson statue and some other stuff). I'll check my computer to see if I uploaded the stuff I took with my cell phone camera the last trip, wasn't great, but got an interior of the courthouse. Montanabw^(talk) 19:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

The Art Deco buildings of the fairgrounds are the NRHP ones, but I am unsure if you can get access. I've seen all of the Gibson Park, bandshell, duck pond, statues, and other images from summer. Did you get any of the new Missouri River Courthouse (125 Central Avenue West)? If so, I did not see them. - Tim1965 (talk) 19:49, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Did you mean File:Mo River Courthouse GF MT.jpg? Yes, not a great shot, but at least was in the summer. I just uploaded some more stuff today, Tower Rock, Square Butte, inside of the county courthouse mostly. (see here ) Kind of crap photos off the cell phone camera, most randomly shot from the interstate while driving (eep!) but if of any use at all, they exist... If the gates to the Fairgrounds are open and I can get in and drive around, I'll try. No guarantees, especially if the thing tomorrow goes overtime, but will try. I get up there fairly often, every couple of months at least, so will keep your list handy. Montanabw^(talk) 22:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

SQUEE

Belay email, I just uploaded everything. Got the Margaret Block but not the Arvon Block, lots of the Courthouse and Northside District, got a shot of Central and Civic Center, shot from 4th st, some with zoom, not ideal but something. Will be back up there in a month or so, most likely, can do more then. Montanabw^(talk) 22:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

• My bad! I start writing, and then my head goes down, and five days pass before I know it. - Tim1965 (talk) 22:52, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

FYI, tried to send pics per your email request, but we apparently have the same underlying (and fussy) ISP carrier (I have a different domain name on my email, but it's in the same company now) and it said your account was over quota, so only some images got through... and I'm not sure which ones; I sent several emails out and got about three of them back. Montanabw^(talk) 20:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I got sets one through five today. Was there a sixth? - Tim1965 (talk) 21:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I think I sent seven. Things got all scrambled when first my email then yours started spitting out error messages. Maybe look at the stuff I uploaded from last week on Commons and ping me what's missing. I have a bunch of the courthouse and at least 3 of the Civic Center from 4th st, plus I think 3 of the block housing the Margaret bldg... Montanabw^(talk) 16:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Montana to GA, then FA

Tim, would you be interested in helping to get the MT article to GA then FA? Also, you never answered my questions about the Eskimo film on my talk page, we could still squeeze it in today.PumpkinSky talk 21:06, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Eskimo is nom'd. PumpkinSky talk 21:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll help! Let me read the peer review, and I'll start in on things. - Tim1965 (talk) 22:27, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm trying to recruit others. MTBW will help too when she's not riding horse articles. I'll throw some thoughts up on its talk page. PumpkinSky talk 00:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Washington Harbour

Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 16:02, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

And it's the lead too! PumpkinSky talk 23:20, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey, 7639 hits, you made the DYK STATS page! Congrats! PumpkinSky talk 23:25, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Gee, I wonder who put it on the DYK STATS page.  :) Yes, I was pretty happy to see it get that many hits. Not the 22,000 that Yogo Sapphire got, but pretty nice all the same. - Tim1965 (talk) 17:16, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually it wasn't me. And Yogo got 25,100 and is in the all time fame list. PumpkinSky talk 17:40, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

(I know: I was me that put it on DYK STATS.) - Tim1965 (talk) 17:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Eskimo issue

Can you see if you can deal with the questions at Template:Did you know nominations/Eskimo (film)? Thanks. PumpkinSky talk 23:29, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Can't help but notice that fact-checking minor points in the article is not part of the DYK rules. Nonetheless, that's the hoop the DYK nom is being put through. And people wonder why I don't submit to DYK any more. (That long Washington Harbour article would never have gotten onto DYK had they decided to not be lazy and fact-check the entire thing. We'd be sitting here next year on that one.) - Tim1965 (talk) 17:09, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Notice, too, that the reviewer is engaging in original research. The article text mentions "two books" but does not specify them. (The infobox mentions Der Eskimo and Die Flucht Ins Weisse Land.) The reviewer does not mention the infobox; rather, the reviewer looks at the movie poster (original research) and says "I see a discrepancy with the AFI book." So, based on that original research claim, I spent 45 minutes researching something I already knew from researching the article, rather than writing a new article with lots of cites and high-quality writing. Hmm. - Tim1965 (talk) 17:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

See several posts by me just made on my talk page. PumpkinSky talk 23:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Crisco has made a fair point on Eskimo, you could add why you went with your most likely view. PumpkinSky talk 10:00, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

charles m russel national wildlife refuge

It was not an uncited edit. I wrote my source under 'edit summary'. That is the only way I know, for I an computer-illiterate and could find no instructions on this website. It is VERY important that this website not falsely claim there are wild bison on the Refuge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.5.116 (talk) 14:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, placing the cite in the edit summary is not the way to go about it. You can find easy-to-follow instructions on how to enter cites here WP:CITE. Note, however, that the article doesn't say "free-roaming" bison on the CMRNWR. It just says "bison". As far as I know (and I'm from Montana), there aren't any free-roaming bison anywhere in Montana or in the United States. Even Ted Turner's ranch near Bozeman has those bison fenced in; they don't "roam" anywhere. (Note that bison are migratory animals who traveled from Alberta as far south as Kansas.)

I would also suggest that the dispute not be placed in the CMRNWR article for two reasons: 1) NUMEROUS proposals for the refuge are made every year, and most of them go nowhere. Generally speaking, it's better to include things when they happen, not just because they are proposed. 2) I did some research today on this issue, looking up about 20 different articles. So far, the only people proposing free-roaming bison on the CMRNWR is the National Wildlife Federation (NWF); their campaign is just starting, and no one else is pushing this yet. Indeed, the New York Times yesterday ran a big article about just how much opposition this is getting in the state. Right now, the proposal appears to be one from a special interest group and does not yet have broad support. (NWF runs lots of campaigns like this every year, most of which go nowhere.)

Additionally, your edit summaries clearly indicate you are pushing an agenda rather than engaging in neutral editing of an article. Arguing in edit summaries (rather than the article Talk page) is not appropriate, and your assumption that you alone have a claim on the truth is incorrect and biased.

Finally, the state of Montana has quite a lot of say over the CMRNWR, as it owns a lot of state land incorporated in the refuge. (So get your facts straight.) I will not engage in an edit war over this. I strongly urge you to read Wikipedia's guidelines regarding neutral point of views and verifiable claims in articles. Right now, the way you are editing the article does not appear to meet either policy of the encyclopedia. I am transliterating this to the article Talk page. - Tim1965 (talk) 15:00, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Tim, just an FYI, this is a hot issue at the legislature right now, it's even hit the New York Times. I anticipate a lot of POV-pushing on this topic as the tea party has aligned with the Montana Stockgrowers and there's a dash of anti-Indian racism in this as well, due to the Fort Peck Rez getting a shipment of wild bison from Yellowstone and a subsequent court case (currently there's an injunction in effect preventing the Tribe from getting more bison). FWIW, there is a distinction between "wild" and "domesticated" bison that goes beyond management or behavior and touches on genetics, Yellowstone Bison, and the ones that have gone into other ownership from Yellowstone, such as Turner's and the Fort Peck batch, have pure genetics, most domesticated ones have some genetic contamination from cattle. So anyway, just so you know what you're wading into here. Montanabw^(talk) 17:07, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• I realize that. Did you see the NY Times article two days ago? It's all over the Billings Gazette, too. And there are, what, four bills in the legislature? (Thank god it only lasts 90 days!) NWF is pushing for "free-roaming" bison (which makes no sense, unless they open the entire historic range). I'm not averse to clarifying the article (as the FWS site which is cited does not say if they are domesticated, wild, free-roaming, woodland bison, prairie bison, etc.). But I don't want POV-pushing in that otherwise good article. - Tim1965 (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I cited in the little link above. May need to update the link to that draft EIS, it is still out there, but the link changed (I was offline a bit, now lost the search...). I think the deal is that someone has been grazing privately-owned bison there for some time on some sort of lease, so the issue is bringing in a population from Yellowstone. Saw the final doc, tons of comments, some in tinfoil helmet land. Sheesh. All that said, I didn't see in the final or on the FWS web site anything to verify that bison are there now, other than the side comment about the person with a grazing lease. Might need to look at that. Fully agree that POV-pushing and rants in either direction need to stay out of it. Montanabw^(talk) 18:42, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I've posted on the article talk page and will keep an eye on it. PumpkinSky talk 22:05, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

St Peter Mission

This is approved and the lead in Prep 1 right now. The reviewer said it even reaches GA standards! You need one more tweak for Eskimo to get approved. PumpkinSky talk 14:16, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

• Oy vey! Hey, I'll bringit up to GA, if you can get a peer reviewer to look at it first. Deal? - Tim1965 (talk) 14:42, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I'll check it over this weekend and ask someone good at ce to look it over, that should get it very GAC worthy. Then you file for GAC, ok? Should be no need for it to sit in PR indefinitely, which happens all too often.PumpkinSky talk 20:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I confess, I've never asked for a peer review before, so I really don't even know how to go about getting someone to do it. You have, with the Yogo article, so I'm relying on you, buddy!  :) I'll bring it up to GA immediately. - Tim1965 (talk) 01:10, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

After DYK, suggest taking out the travel directions. Get rid of the single-sentence paragraphs, merge them or whatever. If it's important enough to mention, it's important enough not to be parentheses (quote from one of my college English profs). PumpkinSky talk 02:06, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for St. Peter's Mission Church and Cemetery

Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Bac logo.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Bac logo.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Eskimo (film)

Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 15:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Another lead DYK, yee ha! PumpkinSky talk 22:34, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Make another stats entry!PumpkinSky talk 00:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• Holy smokeus! - Tim1965 (talk) 00:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Bac logo.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Bac logo.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:07, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Leo Awards for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Leo Awards is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leo Awards until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Deadbeef (talk) 06:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Leal

I have ?? on my talk page. PumpkinSky talk 15:38, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

OK. Will nom now. PumpkinSky talk 21:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Cole Taylor

The article Cole Taylor has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

fails PORNBIO, no reliably sourced content

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 12:33, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Image question

Any progress on the image question we sent you? PumpkinSky talk 17:31, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/The Daughter of Dawn

A 1920 Native American film. You'd be interested. PumpkinSky talk 02:19, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! This reminded me of something: Back when I was attending Great Falls High School, I had a couple friends in Indian Club. One boy invited me up to the Blackfeet Reservation to be part of his coming-of-age sweatlodge ceremony. So, we get up there, and they are showing films from the 1920s and 1930s of Indian dancing as a means of teaching some of the younger kids what it really looked like. Everyone was laughing. My friend leaned over to me and whispered, "It's running at about twice the correct speed, because film cameras back then ran slower than they do today." That fascinated me -- because I'd never thought about the technology of film, and had always assumed what I was seeing was what was real. - Tim1965 (talk) 15:10, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for John R. McCarl

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Student American Veterinary Medical Association - a question about the years indicated in your discussion

I was interested in the history of the association of student veterinarians. In your document you note that the students first approached the AVMA in 1966 about affiliating, but became frustrated when nothing was done. You also note that a group met at the 1968 convention to form their own committee.

The Administrative Bylaws of the AVMA indicate that as early as 1956, Article XVIII (titled "Student Chapters"), delineated how student chapters should be formed, at which schools they could be formed, how they afilliated with the AVMA, the dues amount to be paid by the chapter to the AVMA, the use of official AVMA stationery, and the procedure for students to disband the chapter if they so desired.

Is there some contemporaneous documentation for your information that disputes the bylaws entry, or are you referring to a different student chapter structure?

Thanks for clarifying. - Josiahhenry (talk) 21:27, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

• AVMA may have had provisions to establish student chapters as early as 1956, but it's clear from the record that it wasn't named SAVMA and that none of them existed. (At least, there's no evidence I've seen -- although I've looked only briefly -- that any student chapters existed between 1956 and 1969.) AVMA itself says that SAVMA did not exist until 1969[1]. The Spring 1994 InterVet article by SAVMA about its own history says that the idea for SAVMA was raised in 1966, no action was taken, and the organization not founded until 1969. - Tim1965 (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for James Leal Greenleaf

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!

Hi Tim1965! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 00:38, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Webinar / edit-a-thon at the National Library of Medicine (NLM)

Join us at the NLM next week, either in person or online, to learn about NLM resources, hear some great speakers, and do some editing!

organized by Wiki Project Med

On Tuesday, 28 May there will be a community Wikipedia meeting at the United States National Library of Medicine in Bethesda, Maryland - with a second on Thursday, 30 May for those who can't make it on Tuesday. You can participate either in-person, or via an online webinar. If you attend in person, USB sticks (but not external drives) are ok to use.

Please go to the event page to get more information, including a detailed program schedule.

If you are interested in participating, please register by sending an email to pmhmeet@gmail.com. Please indicate if you are coming in person or if you will be joining us via the webinar. After registering, you will receive additional information about how to get to our campus (if coming in-person) and details about how to join the webinar. Klortho (talk) 05:52, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Boundary Channel

The DYK project (nominate) 08:08, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Arlington Memorial Amphitheater

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for USS Maine Mast Memorial

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:03, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Have time on Saturday?

I'm sorry for the last-minute notice, but on Saturday, June 8, from 3 to 6 PM, Wikimedia DC and the Cato Institute are hosting a Legislative Data Meetup. We will discuss the work done so far by WikiProject U.S. Federal Government Legislative Data to put data from Congress onto Wikipedia, as well as what more needs to be done. If you have ideas you'd like to contribute, or if you're just curious and feel like meeting up with other Wikipedians, you are welcome to come! Be sure to RSVP here if you're interested.

I hope to see you there!

(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for D.C.-area events by removing your name from this list.)

Harej (talk) 04:21, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• Pride Weekend. No way. - Tim1965 (talk) 14:06, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, June 15!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, June 15 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 19:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Great Falls ping!

Norma Ashby will be on DYK main page starting 10pm EDT/8pm MDT tonight. Montanabw^(talk) 19:24, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

• LOL!!! Tony was in my class at GFHS! - Tim1965 (talk) 22:19, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Wow. MTBW and I both worked on the article. I'm not in the history because she (cough) messed up her user subpage histories (cough cough). Do you keep in touch with Tony? PumpkinSky talk 22:29, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

My bad! If we have more sources, they would be helpful for future expansion. Also we have visible proof that all of Montana is sort of one big small town... Montanabw^(talk) 22:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Naw, I never kept up with Tony. (He was kind of a dick anyway.) My Norma Ashby story: Every year, the Veterans of Foreign Wars sponsors a "Voice of Democracy" speech contest. My speech class had to participate as part of our grade. Well, I won the entire state of Montana, and got a free trip to D.C. Afterward, I got to be on Norma Ashby's TV show, where I read my speech and got interviewed about my trip. And my parents missed the broadcast! LOL!! - Tim1965 (talk) 22:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. I'm sure there's a story to why they missed that broadcast. So we can safely say you like to talk and argue, Mr. State Champ? PumpkinSky talk 22:41, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

They missed it because they just plain forgot. Further part to the story: When you enter the contest, you turn in a tape and a hard-copy of your speech. That way, they are sure which voice is on the tape. Well, no one checked....and they thought my classmate Jerry won the city round, won the county round, won the north-central round, and got to the state round. Finally, someone checked the speech on the tape (which they had all been listening to) against the script. They didn't match. It was my tape that had gotten all the way to the top. Making matters worse, my speech won the state round, too! They had to placate Jerry somehow, so they rigged it so me and him "tied" until we got to state. Boy, that did not placate him one damn bit! His parents almost sued. (I think he got a one-time scholarship out of the deal.) - Tim1965 (talk) 22:46, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I can't imagine forgetting one of my kids being on TV. What a mess that contest was. My daughter won a 8th grade poem writing contest in her school, won district and regional, and got 2nd place in state. It was on the effects of growing up with a stutter, she read it at the city competition aloud without a single stutter. We were there and so happy for her.PumpkinSky talk 22:51, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I was third place in the Cascade County Spelling Bee in the sixth grade, too. That didn't go over well with my peers... - Tim1965 (talk) 22:53, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

LOL! Small world; I've judged "Voice of Democracy" in my current community for many years (they need a token liberal there, i guess) and occasionally the regional one. I also was third in the city bee in Bozeman when I was in sixth grade (the only year I went for it) and got to the county spelling bee, but froze up in the first round! A smaller world yet: I was on "Today in Montana" when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade with Norma and her co-host (I want to think it was Lockwood, not Snyder, but I don't remember) with other nerd kids from my small town's elementary school library AV crew, showing off our newfangled electronic gear -- reel-to-reel tape recorder, filmstrip projectors, and even an early video camera! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 23:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Film strip projectors!! LOL!!! No slide projectors? - Tim1965 (talk) 00:01, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

OMG!!! What a bunch of old farts!!! Do I have to include myself in that? PumpkinSky talk 00:23, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

If you remember when there was only Black and White TV, you're in! Montanabw^(talk) 18:43, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Sigh.PumpkinSky talk 20:12, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I remember when there was no cable TV in Montana. And how excited people were when Great Falls got a third TV station! LOL! - Tim1965 (talk) 20:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, ***I*** remember when Great Falls got its very first McDonald's! (I was quite excited about this because I had seen the TV commercials but had not ever yet seen a "real" McDonald's!) Ah, the innocence of childhood... LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 23:07, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the one on 10th Avenue South. Ooooh, the folks at Burger Master were upset! - Tim1965 (talk) 00:25, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I loved the Burger Master! Montanabw^(talk) 16:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Plus, you got to drive up on the ramp. Mickey D's never had that!! Poor Taco John's, though... they were never the same after Taco Bell hit town. - Tim1965 (talk) 22:32, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd moved on to another part of the state by that time; "TJ's Supper Club" never had much appeal where I lived... LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 23:54, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

What about Eddie's Supper Club? The decor is stuck in 1963, and the menu in 1974. But I know people who go there every week. Oddly, no one I know has ever hung out in the bar. Not like the Club Cigar downtown, where you can drink from sun-up to sun-down and the million-year-old chain-smoking female bartender won't care. - Tim1965 (talk) 00:22, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I used to show horses with the Newman kids, they had Saddlebreds. We used to have a big open show circuit in Montana in the 70s, not like the overspecialized stuff today. Eddie's sponsored a lot of horse show classes. Montanabw^(talk) 04:15, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

and on that note, guess where I was today? And had an hour or so to spare, so hit the fairgrounds and got you some pics. Will be a bit before I get them to WP, but got almost all the main buildings on a beautiful sunny day. You owe me! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 04:15, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Join us this Sunday for the Great American Wiknic!

	Great American Wiknic DC at Meridian Hill Park
	You are invited to the Great American Wiknic DC at the James Buchanan Memorial at Meridian Hill Park. We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the potluck! :)

Boilerplate message generously borrowed from Wikimedia NYC. To unsubscribe from future DC area event notifications, remove your name from this list.

Harej (talk) 15:45, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Just for you

photos up!

38 images now at [2]. Montanabw^(talk) 16:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

• WOW!!!!!!!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tim1965 (talk) 17:34, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

See Four_Seasons_Arena#Conception_and_construction. Also grabbed a couple shots of the Arvon block on the way out of town, it looks like shit, quite run down, but may be getting renovated, a sign was in one window. Haven't got them uploaded yet, but will. Montanabw^(talk) 20:46, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

FYI, will be at the State Fair and horse racing (yay!) at Expo Park on Saturday. Any further photo requests? Montanabw^(talk) 18:16, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• Gosh yes! Building insides! Especially of Four Seasons Arena. I, myself, was in Bozeman (or, as those of us who drink call it, Boozeman) and took a boatload of photos of Eastern Montana, western North Dakota, Museum of the Rockies (including all exhibits and the Tinsley Farm), historic downtown Bozeman, and Montana State University. See here. Some nice soul has been uploading some of the MOR photos to WikiCommons, but only a few. I doubt any of the others have been uploaded. I still have more than 300 photos to sort through before I'm all done, and then I'll do some uploading myself. - Tim1965 (talk) 21:49, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Not sure I'll get inside of Four Seasons (wanted to go to one of the concerts, but it's a different night) but it is right by the track, so can try. Give me a holler when you have your stuff uploaded (around here, we sometimes call it "the Bozone" or the "Bozone layer" for any number of reasons, but mostly because it's fun to say "Bozone." Montanabw^(talk) 22:55, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, July 13!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, July 13 at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 00:26, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

You're Invited: Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon at the Smithsonian

File:SAAM facade.jpg American Art Museum

Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon at the Smithsonian American Art Museum You're invited to the Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon, part of a series of edit-a-thons organized by the Smithsonian American Art Museum to add and expand articles about American art and artists on Wikipedia. This event will include a catered lunch and special tours of the Luce Foundation Center for American Art and the Lunder Conservation Center at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. 9:15 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. on Friday, July 19, 2013 Smithsonian American Art Museum Meet at G Street Lobby (9th St. & G St. NW, Washington, D.C.) Capacity is limited, so please sign up today! If you would not like to receive future messages about meetups, please remove your name from our distribution list. Message delivered by Dominic·t 03:52, 12 July 2013 (UTC).

Luce Foundation Center

Camera crapped out

You can check my contribs at Commons, my camera battery went dead pretty soon after I got to the fair,so other than a photo of the grandstand WITH people (as opposed to the photo in the FG article that's empty... should we swap photos out? ) I didn't get much. Hotter than hell today too, typical State Fair weather ... Also got around to uploading the Arvon block photos I took last month, put into article. Montanabw^(talk) 05:48, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Bozemanian stuff

Anything of use in the Montana article? PumpkinSky talk 10:21, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

You bet! I took lots of eastern Montana, too. - Tim1965 (talk) 15:17, 28 July 2013 (UTC)