Tamdao22

Question

I see you are a single-purpose account that only edits two articles: Too Much Coffee Man and its creator, Shannon Wheeler. Judging from the edits, including the placement of a newly published omnibus, seem promotional in nature. Are you the article subject, or involved with the subject or with Dark Horse Comics? --Tenebrae (talk) 20:30, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Answer

I am new to editing Wikipedia articles, obviously. I am not the subject nor am I involved with Dark Horse, but I do know the subject. That said, I have been careful to be non-promotional in the edits. I have made them for the sake of accuracy and thoroughness. Concerning the image of the cover of the Omnibus, it was the only one I had easy access to that is the iconic image of Too Much Coffee Man in the cup. This image is both the newest image of TMCM and is also a reprint of the first cover of the comic book. It was meant to be a place holder until I could obtain a more suitable one. The previous image was art done by a colleague and not by Shannon Wheeler. It was inappropriate as the Omnibus has been recently published and the wiki article was misrepresentative of the subject. Tamdao22 (talk) 20:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

I saw the newer edits made. I would like to find a better image that shows TMCM in full costume and character format that is drawn by the original artist. Also, I would like to request for you to restore the section entitled "Comic Books" as that was the largest part of the existence of TMCM. It is also what won Shannon Wheeler his first Eisner. I was planning to fill out the minicomic, comic book and magazine sections as I can access to all issues. Tamdao22 (talk) 21:07, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

You say you are not the subject, yet when you posted the Shannon Wheeler image Tmcm in hell.jpg — which is signed by Shannon Wheeler and in which you have "author" listed as "Shannonleowheeler" — you describe yourself as "I, the copyright holder of this work." You are then either Shannon Wheeler or his publisher, or you are not the copyright holder and therefore this image has to be removed as a copyright violation and a violation of Wikipedia Non-free content criteria.

RE: "It was inappropriate as the Omnibus has been recently published and the wiki article was misrepresentative of the subject": First, the Omnibus being the most recent publication has no bearing whatsoever, except for promotional considerations. See the policy regarding using Wikipedia for promotion. Secondly, the image that was there fell within Non-free content criteria and, since it adhered to WikiProject Comics Manual of Style for superhero-infobox images, it absolutely did not misrepresent the subject, which is Too Much Coffee Man and not Shannon Wheeler — and you evidently agree as you substituted another version of the same image of the character.

As for the image you inserted, which is a perfectly fine image as far as it goes, I'd like you to address the issue of how you are "the copyright holder of this work". Otherwise, an admin will be asked to determine whether the use of that image is a copyright violation — as was, evidently, the image referenced below that you posted. --Tenebrae (talk) 07:43, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I would also note that Shannonleowheeler was noted as a possible conflict-of-interest contributor in the fourth box down at Talk:Shannon Wheeler. Sincd that contributor made only two edits, both nearly five years ago, yet you were familiar with the registered name "Shannonleowheeler", this suggests very strongly that these are two accounts by the same person. An admin can do what's called a "checkuser" action that may provide further evidence. If you are Shannon Wheeler or a publisher/representative of Shannon Wheeler, that needs to be clarified because of WP:COI and WP:NOR concerns. --Tenebrae (talk) 08:33, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I am not Shannon Wheeler and I did not post the image Tmcm in hell.jpg. I asked Shannon to upload the image himself, he did and sent the link to me so that I could link it to the article. He is the creator of the work and the sole copyright holder. Therefore, the image should not be in any copyright violation.

The cover of the Omnibus is basically the same as the cover of comic book #1, the only difference was the title. We did not have time to alter the image to exclude that part and the image done by Paul Guinan misrepresented the character. This is important because now that the book has been released, many people are referencing this Wikipedia article before writing reviews and other articles/interviews. The newer image that is similar to the cover of magazine #21 is done in crosshatching, something that is strongly associated to much of the art TMCM appears in.

I am not the copyright holder. Shannon Wheeler uploaded the image himself and he is the copyright holder and creator of the image. If it says that I am the copyright holder, it must be a mistake and I would like to readily fix it.

I had noticed that user name and the two changes before as well. Shannon said that he had tried to remove some false information many years ago and was unsuccessful. He hasn't logged into his Wikipedia account until tonight when I asked him to upload the image. I helped him to remember the user name and it took many attempts for him to successfully log in. I do have two account names myself: tamdao22 and also raniviva. You can see that I have accounts on the Japanese and French sites. I am not Shannon Wheeler. I have avoided promoting his work. I have tried to correct information and fill out areas that were missing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamdao22 (talk • contribs) 09:01, 23 September 2011 Tamdao22 (talk) 09:08, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I see that while you added the image Tmcm in hell.jpg to the article, the image file says it was uploaded by "shannonleowheeler" — yet the User Contributions page for shannonleowheeler does not list that user as uploading that image, so it's unclear to me who uploaded it.

You claim the previous image, which was used on the cover of Wheeler's own Too Much Coffee Man magazine, "misrpresented" the character. That may be your opinion, but objectively looking at the two images it is clear that it is the same character, in the same costume, in the same pose. Saying the artist Paul Guinan misrepresented the character is a serious charge to levy against a presumably living person. You and Wheeler may prefer the other image, and as I said the other image is fine as long as the rights-holder approves, but that is not the same as claiming another artist did something wrong or untoward.

As someone acquainted with Shannon Wheeler, you may not be the most objective contributor to this article, and, as has been demonstrated, there is a danger of an acquaintance adding personal-knowledge claims that are unsubstantiated by third-party, published, reliable-source citations, which Wikipedia requires. All are welcome to edit Wikipedia, but conflict-of-interest concerns arise in an article about a person or a person's work when someone is a friend or acquaintance of that person.

Wikipedia has found that the best thing to do in such cases is to discuss proposed changes/additions on the article(s) talk page(s), in this case Talk:Too Much Coffee Man and Talk:Shannon Wheeler, and get input from other, disinterested editors. --Tenebrae (talk) 09:22, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Incidentally, when I looked up your other claimed user name, raniviva, I found no user of that named listed.--Tenebrae (talk) 09:25, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I watched Wheeler upload the image to the Wiki Commons, I did not do this myself. I am not sure why it hasn't registered on his user page.Tamdao22 (talk) 10:31, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

The cover done by Paul Guinan was a fitting image for the last issue of the magazine, a collaborative effort to which Guinan contributed greatly. Both he and his wife have been given much credit and respect for their work on the magazine. Likewise, there have been other artists who have drawn TMCM and they are all valued but they would not be used as the definitive image of the character. I do understand your point, however, that the overall look of the character was represented accurately.Tamdao22 (talk) 10:26, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I am aware that the subject themselves or people closely connected to them are not the best sources of information. I have been trying to be very careful to not overstep the boundaries and have requested help from volunteers at Wikipedia on contributing to articles because of this conflict of interest. What is mostly troublesome is when there is erroneous information shared.Tamdao22 (talk) 10:26, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I will try to keep this in mind.Tamdao22 (talk) 10:26, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I believe that I had edited the Shannon Wheeler article with the user name "raniviva" in 2010 at some point. It may be I was able to change the user name or it was my user name on the Japanese or French Wikipedia sites, I'm not sure why it could not be found. Tamdao22 (talk) 10:26, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Coffeehouse.jpeg

A tag has been placed on File:Coffeehouse.jpeg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted images or text borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Eeekster (talk) 21:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Building up the article

That all sounds great; this article and, to a greater extent, the Shannon Wheeler article both need expansion. Thanks you for the kind words and I'm glad I could help. I'm a journalist by trade, so, yep, you, Shannon and I are on the same team in terms of wanting accuracy in Wikipedia — which, as a journalist, I'll use for its handiness in collecting citations all in one place, which I then look up. I'd never take anything at Wikipedia at face value, but boy, does it save time to have those citations all linked up and ready! Looking forward to working with you; you sound like jus tthe kind of careful, meticulous editor Wikipedia needs! --Tenebrae (talk) 19:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I thank you very much for the kind words and the very gracious and generous Barntstar; aside from the care you exhibit in your work, your collegiality, both with me and another editor, User:Bbb23, should be a model for all new users. You certainly have my respect.

I do need to ask something, because of some of your comments in WP:BLPN and elsewhere, in order to clear up any potential WP:COI concerns, and I hope for the good of encyclopedia's credibility you'll be honest with me. You mention having been there with Wheeler when he uploaded an image. You also say, "Wheeler and myself feel uncomfortable having detailed information about the boys in a forum that people access easily." Wikipedia, of course, makes understandable allowances for sensitive issues regarding living people, especially where children are concerned. You did right to ask, and to be protective, and Bbb23 did right to find a middle ground that satisfies reasonable family concerns and encyclopedic-biography concerns.

Such requests virtually always come from family members — Wikipedia generally doesn't censor public information if the request comes from just anyone: We wouldn't remove the ages of Jennifer Lopez's twins, for example, simply because a fan would ask. While I'm not asking for specifics, I do think for the sake of honest disclosure you should say whether you are related to the subject, either formally or essentially. WP:COI, neutral-point-of-view and WP:NOTADVERTISING concerns are all affected by this.

With thanks for all your efforts and good nature, --Tenebrae (talk) 18:27, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Firstly, I am trying to understand the perspective from which other editors are perceiving the changes and requests I have made. I can see how my ignorance and constant blundering can aggravate the situation. And then to consider that it's not only me, but other novice users many times over who are doing the same, it must be very frustrating for serious editors. Thank you for your patience.

Earlier today, I had entered some information on my user page User:Tamdao22 to make salient to others who are concerned with my intentions. Yes, essentially I am related to the subject. To be certain, there is an inherent conflict of interest for me to edit any article that involves Shannon Wheeler. I have tried to keep my edits to things that a neutral editor would agree to (in reference to the nutshell part of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest). Likewise, my point of view is also inherently non-neutral. I will try to not make any contributions that are putting personal goals ahead of those of Wikipedia. And I will not use Wikipedia as a platform to advertise. (I'm a terrible salesperson, anyway.)

I understand all these concerns and hopefully things are clearer now. I will try to limit my contributions to actions such as finding citations needed, adding links to articles, and listing books/publications and the like.

I started pages [Comics] and [Adhesive Press]. One will be redirected to the other and/or be a subsection in the article Shannon Wheeler. It will be an impossible challenge for me to write about this subject. But for the sake of indy publishers, I think mention of it should exist on Wikipedia. Tamdao22 (talk) 02:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, T22. Speaking, I'm sure, for other editors working on these pages, your candor and honesty are very much appreciated. I hope, if you have a general interest in comics, indie or otherwise, you'll continue to help Wikipedia by contributing to comics articles.

Maybe I can help with those last items, which rediret to "Bad Title" pages. "Comics," as you may imagine, already has a Wikipedia page. Is "Adhesive Press" Wheeler's own company? If it publishes material other than his own, it might or might not warrant its own article. Otherwise, I would have "Adhesive Press" redirect to Shannon Wheeler. If you have trouble doing that, let me know, and I'd be glad to do it. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Ugh. I wasn't trying to start a new page entitled "Comics," I was just writing when I was a bit tired. Let's try this again. The near-empty pages are Adhesive Press and Adhesive Comics. (Whew, that was hard.) Adhesive Press and Adhesive Comics are both names of the indy publishing company Wheeler has been a part of and now is the sole member, I believe. They have published other people's work, but I'm not sure how much. I will work on these more when I have some time. Tamdao22 (talk) 19:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, given that Shannon Wheeler is the sole or virtually sole person published by what I'm presuming is the company Adhesive Press and the imprint Adhesive Comics, they would likely contain little or no information not already found in Shannon Wheeler and Too Much Coffee Man. I believe the chances are very high that they would face speedy deletion #A10 ("Recently created article that duplicates an existing topic"). And honestly, two articles devoted to Wheeler and his primary character seem sufficient. Four seems very much going into promotional territory. I really would consider just having those two titles redirect to Shannon Wheeler. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:56, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Advice noted and welcomed. I would like to use the tentative pages as worksheets, the contents of which will probably end up being a subsection on Wheeler's article page. I want to collect information and find citations before putting anything officially out there. Tamdao22 (talk) 21:20, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edits

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User page tag

Hi, T! I'm more of a Sudoku guy myself, though a friend of mine is like national champ in crosswords. Small world!

You probably want to adjust the tag that says, "This user has been on Wikipedia for 5 years, 8 months and 27 days."   : )  --Tenebrae (talk) 15:24, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I wanted so much to like sudoku. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. For what it's worth, I have an infinite more amount of respect for crossword champs than I do for those in Scrabble. That is really cool.

Took off the tag about the length of time- dunno how to adjust it now. And whatever amount of time it could say on there would be misleading as to what my abilities should be anyway.

If you're heading to APE, look me up! Will probably be there. Tamdao22 (talk) 17:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Naw, but I'll be at the New York Comic Con in mid-Oct. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

So many guests at NYCC. Crazy show planned. Would be interested in meeting T Moore. Tamdao22 (talk) 04:25, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Sure. Strangers in Paradise. Used to read it all the time. I got a kick last con out of meeting Bob Burden. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:17, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

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