User talk:SusunW/Archive 52
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New articles
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
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Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
Invitation to join Wikiproject
 | Hello SusunW/Archive 52! Thank you for your contributions to articles related to ageing and gender. I'd like to invite you to become a part of the ageing and culture WikiProject, a WikiProject aimed at improving the quality of articles dealing with ageing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the WikiProject Ageing and culture page for more information. Feel free to sign your name under "Members". Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaudeG3 (talk • contribs) |
A page you started (Camposagrado Palace (Oviedo)) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Camposagrado Palace (Oviedo), SusunW!
Wikipedia editor WordSeventeen just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:
Great article. Thanks!
To reply, leave a comment on WordSeventeen's talk page.
Learn more about page curation.
Happy New Year!
Wikipedia Asian Month 2017: Invitation to Participate
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Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!
April editathons at Women in Red
Alexander Grant's will
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January 2020 at Women in Red
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Hope for 2021
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Thank you for improving article quality in December, and good wishes for a time of transition. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks Gerda Arendt. I appreciate the encouragement. Wishing you and yours a lovely holiday season. May we all have a better 2021. SusunW (talk) 17:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you, and have a good new year 2021, full of articles about overlooked women! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
- I think I may just have 1 article for the year, but it's a huge project, women's nationality. I may take a break from it and do a few women just to break up the tedious legal searches, as I can already tell you that searching legal history, in a foreign language is really, really hard. SusunW (talk) 14:27, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you, and have a good new year 2021, full of articles about overlooked women! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks Gerda Arendt. I appreciate the encouragement. Wishing you and yours a lovely holiday season. May we all have a better 2021. SusunW (talk) 17:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Happy holidays!
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Happy Holidays! |
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Hi SusunW, May your holidays be merry and bright, |
- Thank you so much Netherzone. May you and yours have a lovely holiday season as well. SusunW (talk) 15:56, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
Merry Christmas!
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| If angels sung a Savior’s birth, On that auspicious morn, We well may imitate their mirth, Now He again is born! If stars in heav'n shone bright as day To light the manger throne, We should rejoice as well as they That love doth reign alone. All Glory be to God on high, And to the earth be peace; Goodwill henceforth from heav'n to men Begin and never cease. - "Milford" by Joseph Stephenson, text anonymous |
--Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 21:07, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
A New Year With Women in Red!
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 03:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging
DYK for Marie-Louise Lacoste
On 30 December 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Marie-Louise Lacoste, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the diaries of Lady Lacoste, a 19th-century philanthropist from Montreal, give historians a rare look into how emotions impacted the lives of women in her social class? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marie-Louise Lacoste. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Marie-Louise Lacoste), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (ie, 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Happy New Year!
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A wish for the new year |
| A quote from Gargantua and Pantagruel by Rabelais; it is taken from the manuscript of Jules Massenet's opera Panurge, in the composer's own hand. It is my greeting of choice for the new year, because it encourages us to live joyfully, and try not to take life too seriously...while quaffing whatever beverage we choose, naturally. This has been a challenging year, to say the least; I hope that 2021 may bring a fresh start, and better days ahead. May the new year bring you joy and peace...and many days of fruitful editing. |
--Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 22:50, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Congratulations on the No. 16 DYK hook of 2020!
The 2020 totals are now complete, and your hook for Beulah Ream Allen and her story of survival at Japanese internment camps ranked as the No. 16 hook of the year with 1,769 DYK views per hour. A list of the 25 most viewed hooks of the year can be viewed at "Top hooks of 2020". Congratulations on your hook's remarkable showing, and keep up the great work! Cbl62 (talk) 10:18, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
QAI
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That's great! - I tried to give 2021 a good start by updating the QAI project topics. Please check and correct, - did you know that - at five years - you belong to project's "oldest" active members? For moar private "happy new year" see here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Happy Wikipedia 20, - proud of a little bit on the Main page today, and 5 years ago, and 10 years ago, look: create a new style - revive - complete! I sang in the revival mentioned. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:31, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Proud today of a pic I took. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
... and today Jerome Kohl, remembered in friendship --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:28, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Promotion of Women's poll tax repeal movement
Congrats, Susun! If you like I can do the nom for you. Any specific date? 8 March? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you Gerda Arendt! I read this and my mind went, did I nominate the last one? How did I do that? Now I recall that you did that one too. Yes, please, and 8 March would be fabulous. I so appreciate your support and willingness to help. SusunW (talk) 14:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- First step taken, adding to WP:TFARP, no competition yet for the day. The real nomination can come once 8 February will be scheduled. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- You are the best! Thank you so much Gerda Arendt. Your support and encouragement are genuinely appreciated. SusunW (talk) 15:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- This step is very easy. For the nomination, It would be nice - unless the introduction is already of the right size - To prepare a blurb of mas o menos 1,050 chars in some some sandbox, or the article talk page. It depends a bit on image and image size how much is left for text. - This was perfect timing, as I just archived the TFAs of 2020, and the page looked a bit empty ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- I seem to recall that last time as well some wonderful person wrote the blurb and all I had to do was review it. I'm hoping that will happen again, because I am truly buried in nationality. But, I'll check as we get closer and if it hasn't happened, I'll put something together. SusunW (talk) 17:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- (blushing) I did it again. Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Women's poll tax repeal movement. no idea how a 1918 poster can be for a movement that began in the 1920s ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:11, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- I seem to recall that last time as well some wonderful person wrote the blurb and all I had to do was review it. I'm hoping that will happen again, because I am truly buried in nationality. But, I'll check as we get closer and if it hasn't happened, I'll put something together. SusunW (talk) 17:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- This step is very easy. For the nomination, It would be nice - unless the introduction is already of the right size - To prepare a blurb of mas o menos 1,050 chars in some some sandbox, or the article talk page. It depends a bit on image and image size how much is left for text. - This was perfect timing, as I just archived the TFAs of 2020, and the page looked a bit empty ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- You are the best! Thank you so much Gerda Arendt. Your support and encouragement are genuinely appreciated. SusunW (talk) 15:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- First step taken, adding to WP:TFARP, no competition yet for the day. The real nomination can come once 8 February will be scheduled. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
A bit of snow from Alaska to cool you down on this Monday
.JPG)
Not from my area but it's not far off from what I see on the trails. Our snow is about two to three feet deep in most places. It's pretty compacted on the trails but less so outside of them. The dogs love it!! Their discipline is about the only thing keeping me out of a snow drift (LOL). Our house looks like a giant pile of snow right now. These pesky flash blizzards keep piling it up. It's -2f and we may sneak up to 0 or 1f. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 19:51, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- You are far tougher than me. I am freezing and have on flannels, socks, a sweater, and a blanket. My hands literally (per my housekeeper) are ice cubes. It's hard to type, they are so cold. 25C/77F is no bueno and that's the outside temperature. In the house because of the drafts and foot thick walls, it's at least 10 degrees below that. I am miserable. Come on spring! SusunW (talk) 20:16, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- I don't mind Spring/Summer. I get to make my wildflower salads again and pick wild berries. Travel can actually be more difficult with the thaw but we manage. Girl, we have wood stoves in every room and fireplaces all over the house (LOL). It's still right around freezing if you get far away from the heat source. My brothers new house has central heating though. It's pretty ingenious. If it 40f in one room its most likely 40f in every room. That's nice, especially in the bathroom which has next to no heat source in our house. I'd make the trip over every time I had to go but there's a lot of white stuff between us and by the time I got the dogs hitched up I probably wouldn't need to go anymore. Ah, life in arctic Alaska!!! Such a joy! --20:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- I think my brain just said "Nope, we done" on that last sentence (LOL). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- I have no heat in any room, except that provided by blankets or a lap cat. If I can just make it to February, we'll be back in the 80s and I'll be functional. LOL SusunW (talk) 20:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- We may not reach the 80's during Summer. That's not to say it doesn't get hot up here. Just to our south and east temperatures around 100f are not unprecedented. We are pretty protected from that. Still it can approach 80f during the warmest portion of Summer. Persephone, my cat, hates the cold here. She sleeps right next to the fire or nuzzles her way under my blankets at night. #SOSPOILED #EMPRESSKITTY #MADAMEPERS --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:53, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- My female cat, Mouse, is always under the blankets in winter. The boys, Yoda and Rusty, like me, sleep on the bed instead of in their hammocks. Thus, one can always tell if it is December or January here. Otherwise, we're all in a hammock, as the air circulates all around and through it keeping you cool. SusunW (talk) 21:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- We may not reach the 80's during Summer. That's not to say it doesn't get hot up here. Just to our south and east temperatures around 100f are not unprecedented. We are pretty protected from that. Still it can approach 80f during the warmest portion of Summer. Persephone, my cat, hates the cold here. She sleeps right next to the fire or nuzzles her way under my blankets at night. #SOSPOILED #EMPRESSKITTY #MADAMEPERS --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:53, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- I have no heat in any room, except that provided by blankets or a lap cat. If I can just make it to February, we'll be back in the 80s and I'll be functional. LOL SusunW (talk) 20:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- I think my brain just said "Nope, we done" on that last sentence (LOL). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- I don't mind Spring/Summer. I get to make my wildflower salads again and pick wild berries. Travel can actually be more difficult with the thaw but we manage. Girl, we have wood stoves in every room and fireplaces all over the house (LOL). It's still right around freezing if you get far away from the heat source. My brothers new house has central heating though. It's pretty ingenious. If it 40f in one room its most likely 40f in every room. That's nice, especially in the bathroom which has next to no heat source in our house. I'd make the trip over every time I had to go but there's a lot of white stuff between us and by the time I got the dogs hitched up I probably wouldn't need to go anymore. Ah, life in arctic Alaska!!! Such a joy! --20:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
I do have a heater, as in one, singular heater. I am, right now, sitting at the computer with a blanket draped over the desk, myself and the computer and the heater under my feet blowing "heated" air. My toes and fingers are still chilled to the bone!!! That's the way we roll when I'm on here (LOL). Mama has to stay warm. My daughter climbs in here with me often. It becomes a party with her, Persephone and myself crammed under this blanket tent but I don't mind (LOL). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 21:39, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- (a friendly pagestalker) Hello Tsistunagiska and Susun. Mostly, I am always cold. When I took a (forced) work transfer to Las Vegas in 2009, my boss told me that either I'll survive through the summer or I won't, in which case, I'll need to leave. I laughed; she was clueless how much I would enjoy summer in dry desert heat. Now I live in the Sierra Nevada foothills and when I feel cold, I wrap myself in an electric blanket and "chill out". When I do "zoom" calls, often, I am sitting on an electric heating pad. As a child, I used to wonder why my mom always wore tights, but now I get it. Sending you both warm wishes. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- I hear you Rosie. I'm always cold unless the temps creep up to 90-100. My perfect range. You know it is cold today, because my sister, who is always hot, is in a sweater. Probably the rain...why are we having rain in the dry season? Hope you are feeling better. SusunW (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep I think it is safe to say you are always welcome in any of our conversations, Rosie. I know Wikipedia isn't a blog but it's about the only outside interaction I get these days, except occasional emails with the family. I have travelled to many places, both warm and cold. I woke up one day and told my parents I wanted to go on a trip. Off I went, little money, no mode of transportation. Just a young woman with wide eyes and a hungry heart to see and know the world. For months I travelled the US. I had so much fun meeting people and spending time among them even if it hurt me a lot, which it did. Experiencing the world different is both a curse and blessing. LA was amazing. San Francisco, as I remember it, was gorgeous. I also went to Philadelphia and New York. I met Will Smith in Philadelphia. He was doing a community benefit for local youth recreation centers. New York was so amazing this time around. The sounds were like a symphony of music and colour. I call life my rainbow because that's how I see it through my eyes. Flashes of light, colour and sounds. Oh wow, that year spent living in Nepal with my brother. Such a rich cultural history and it felt so ancient yet so relevant. Then there was the trip to Saint Petersburg, Russia. I love being among the people. One of my favorites was getting lost in Barcelona and staying lost among the locals. I was treated to some amazing food but, oh, soaking in the culture like a sponge was by far the best. People. People just do not realize how amazing and diverse and beautiful we are and can be. I keep getting told I need to write a book on my many adventures. Maybe I'll get around to it one day. I still have far too many adventures to experience first. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 22:05, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Nepal and Saint Petersburg -- they are on my bucket list. Awesome that you got to experience them! That's sort of the story of my life, traveling makes for the best of me. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep I haven't travelled very much over the last few years. I did take my daughter and niece on a road trip, back in 2019, from Fairbanks, Alaska to the place we used to live near Bozeman, Montana. My Papa and Mama used to take us on an annual road trip back. Our trip was over 7,000 miles as we drove through Canada to Montana to Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Idaho and back to Montana before coming back through Canada to Skagway, AK., hopped the ferry to Haines and visited with some friends for a few days before driving back to Fairbanks. I got very sick towards the end, and I had to go to Juneau to be checked out by a doctor there but everything was fine. The boat ride back to Haines was another story. The only available vessel was the ex-husbands fishing trawler. Thats another story for another place more private though (LoL). I enjoyed the trip but it took a lot out of me. I haven't really travelled much since. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- That's a long road trip, Alaska to Montana, plus Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Idaho! I've done a few of those myself, both in the U.S. and abroad. Sometimes, I like to stay put and sometimes, "If it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium", seems to work just fine. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:42, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- I did it primarily to encourage my girls (daughter and niece) to spend some time just experiencing independent life. My niece doesn't know it but I had talked to her mum about funding her a trip to Europe before all of this Covid happened. It's been put on delay, obviously, but I really hope to do it eventually. It's hard as a "parent" to let go. My Papa, my actual blood uncle who adopted me, cried when I went on my first trip abroad. He was a very shrewd and business like man but soft and tender. He demanded excellence but also gave us room to make mistakes and didn't punish us harshly when we made them. He would talk the situation through with us using minimum words and more listening. I have never met a man like him in my entire existence. Some come close but none like him. I was his favorite but don't tell my siblings that (LoL). I also acknowledge I was probably not his favorite but needed more attention because I was so wild and free. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:00, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- My aunt, whom I call Shahrezad, gets the blame for my travel bug. She taught music to Haile Selassie's kids and grandkids. She would come home to Oklahoma and tell these amazing tales of her travels. She went to every place on the globe--was in China when it was closed, Cuba when US citizens were banned, met cannibals in the Pacific and South America. (Funny thing is she calls my husband and I brave because we travel together, alone. She says she never traveled without a group and security, but to me, she was/is the amazing one.) I had a passport before I could talk. This pandemic has been hard, as it is probably the longest time I've ever stayed in one place without traveling. We never plan more than the coming and going of a trip. As Rosie says, we let it unfold, i.e. somedays we decide to move and others we don't. SusunW (talk) 16:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- I did it primarily to encourage my girls (daughter and niece) to spend some time just experiencing independent life. My niece doesn't know it but I had talked to her mum about funding her a trip to Europe before all of this Covid happened. It's been put on delay, obviously, but I really hope to do it eventually. It's hard as a "parent" to let go. My Papa, my actual blood uncle who adopted me, cried when I went on my first trip abroad. He was a very shrewd and business like man but soft and tender. He demanded excellence but also gave us room to make mistakes and didn't punish us harshly when we made them. He would talk the situation through with us using minimum words and more listening. I have never met a man like him in my entire existence. Some come close but none like him. I was his favorite but don't tell my siblings that (LoL). I also acknowledge I was probably not his favorite but needed more attention because I was so wild and free. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:00, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- That's a long road trip, Alaska to Montana, plus Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Idaho! I've done a few of those myself, both in the U.S. and abroad. Sometimes, I like to stay put and sometimes, "If it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium", seems to work just fine. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:42, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep I haven't travelled very much over the last few years. I did take my daughter and niece on a road trip, back in 2019, from Fairbanks, Alaska to the place we used to live near Bozeman, Montana. My Papa and Mama used to take us on an annual road trip back. Our trip was over 7,000 miles as we drove through Canada to Montana to Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Idaho and back to Montana before coming back through Canada to Skagway, AK., hopped the ferry to Haines and visited with some friends for a few days before driving back to Fairbanks. I got very sick towards the end, and I had to go to Juneau to be checked out by a doctor there but everything was fine. The boat ride back to Haines was another story. The only available vessel was the ex-husbands fishing trawler. Thats another story for another place more private though (LoL). I enjoyed the trip but it took a lot out of me. I haven't really travelled much since. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Nepal and Saint Petersburg -- they are on my bucket list. Awesome that you got to experience them! That's sort of the story of my life, traveling makes for the best of me. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep I think it is safe to say you are always welcome in any of our conversations, Rosie. I know Wikipedia isn't a blog but it's about the only outside interaction I get these days, except occasional emails with the family. I have travelled to many places, both warm and cold. I woke up one day and told my parents I wanted to go on a trip. Off I went, little money, no mode of transportation. Just a young woman with wide eyes and a hungry heart to see and know the world. For months I travelled the US. I had so much fun meeting people and spending time among them even if it hurt me a lot, which it did. Experiencing the world different is both a curse and blessing. LA was amazing. San Francisco, as I remember it, was gorgeous. I also went to Philadelphia and New York. I met Will Smith in Philadelphia. He was doing a community benefit for local youth recreation centers. New York was so amazing this time around. The sounds were like a symphony of music and colour. I call life my rainbow because that's how I see it through my eyes. Flashes of light, colour and sounds. Oh wow, that year spent living in Nepal with my brother. Such a rich cultural history and it felt so ancient yet so relevant. Then there was the trip to Saint Petersburg, Russia. I love being among the people. One of my favorites was getting lost in Barcelona and staying lost among the locals. I was treated to some amazing food but, oh, soaking in the culture like a sponge was by far the best. People. People just do not realize how amazing and diverse and beautiful we are and can be. I keep getting told I need to write a book on my many adventures. Maybe I'll get around to it one day. I still have far too many adventures to experience first. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 22:05, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- I hear you Rosie. I'm always cold unless the temps creep up to 90-100. My perfect range. You know it is cold today, because my sister, who is always hot, is in a sweater. Probably the rain...why are we having rain in the dry season? Hope you are feeling better. SusunW (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
For me it was my paternal grandmother. Sometimes we called her Nonna but she was my Bubbe. Her mother escaped Germany with her during WWII. My grandmother was just a baby. I was just a baby when I came to live with them. I think she kind of understood what it was like living without family. She didn't want that for me. So, she became my partner in crime (LoL). So many times she stretched the rules, other times just plainly ignored them, but she got so much enjoyment out of seeing me experience life. My eldest brother suspects it's because she saw her youngest son, my father who committed suicide, living through me. Maybe that's the case but regardless we had a strong bond and I miss her a lot. I believe she lead me to my daughter whom I met the night she passed. She taught me to live the kind of life that I wouldn't believe anyone could live if I didn't live it myself. I've tried to do just that. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 17:00, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Wilma Elizabeth McDaniel
Hi Susun. I just read an interesting biography about a woman writer from Oklahoma, Wilma Elizabeth McDaniel, and thought you might enjoy reading it, too. This really touched me, "At age eight, she began to write on scraps of paper, envelopes, and grocery bags, storing them away for later publication." --Rosiestep (talk) 21:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep Such a small world. I just flipped over to her bio. Depew is a really, really small place and practically everyone who lives there is related. My great-grandparents lived there. SusunW (talk) 21:33, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Wow! Small world, indeed. Are you familiar with Greenridge? I couldn't find an article for Greenridge, Oklahoma, so didn't link it, but maybe Greenridge is referring to something/somewhere else? --Rosiestep (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep Never heard of it, but school records are extant. Oilfield country, so it may have been somewhere once but no longer. Lemme see if I can find anything. Searching is easier than typing, because my hands are so cold. SusunW (talk) 21:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Besides the e-mail I sent you, Rosiestep I checked Oklahoma Place Names and I think you are correct that it isn't/wasn't a town, village, etc. Probably the name of a school somewhere, but I checked school names in Chandler, Stroud, Depew and Lela and didn't come up with anything. For kicks and grins, I put in Drumright and got this! Green Ridge School between Depew and Stroud, at R 7 E (top) and 3 (rightside coordinates) in Creek County. (Note all the oilfield dots.) SusunW (talk) 18:56, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- I have found that a lot of these old places that people associated with were actually railroad stations. Sometimes the station was simply named after the operator or a landmark. Even schools popped up around them and took on the name. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 19:11, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Tru dat, or not even a station, just a stop. In this case, it really helped to know about the area. The towns she lived in were all oilfield towns, so knowing the larger ones was critical for searching. Many of them no longer exist, thus the place names book is invaluable. I looked it up in my personal copy, but found one on line to share with Rosie. SusunW (talk) 19:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- I have found that a lot of these old places that people associated with were actually railroad stations. Sometimes the station was simply named after the operator or a landmark. Even schools popped up around them and took on the name. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 19:11, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Besides the e-mail I sent you, Rosiestep I checked Oklahoma Place Names and I think you are correct that it isn't/wasn't a town, village, etc. Probably the name of a school somewhere, but I checked school names in Chandler, Stroud, Depew and Lela and didn't come up with anything. For kicks and grins, I put in Drumright and got this! Green Ridge School between Depew and Stroud, at R 7 E (top) and 3 (rightside coordinates) in Creek County. (Note all the oilfield dots.) SusunW (talk) 18:56, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Rosiestep Never heard of it, but school records are extant. Oilfield country, so it may have been somewhere once but no longer. Lemme see if I can find anything. Searching is easier than typing, because my hands are so cold. SusunW (talk) 21:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Wow! Small world, indeed. Are you familiar with Greenridge? I couldn't find an article for Greenridge, Oklahoma, so didn't link it, but maybe Greenridge is referring to something/somewhere else? --Rosiestep (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Requesting your inputs
@ SusunW,
New year Greetings and hello again.
If you remember one of our previous discussion related to difficulties in including Journal citations, the same day a new issue came before me and to discuss similar thing again immediately would have been tiresome so I waited for a while.
In following section Draft:Avret Esir Pazarları#Partisan coverage of slavery in modern Turkish textbooks I have taken note of a Journal article by Turkish professors 'Avarogullari's, who have mentioned in their article itself that they found their own college students found unaware of slavery in Turkish history, so they did research Turkish school books and wrote the Journal article. When serving professors in Turkey themselves write a critique, in principle as independent editors we may have good faith in those professors (So I believed).
But some user placed a maintenance template {{unreliable|section=yes}} and message on my talk page claiming quoted journal believed to be predatory. Personally I do not see any issue other than article and the journal has not been cited enough by other reputed journals up til now.
I don't know of much about journal but looking at content of research article I don't feel any reason to doubt good faith of researching professors.
As I said earlier there was a case where in Doctors in Pakistan army's hospital came out with a research article or a Pakistani university professors came out with a research article , or Iranian professors came out with a research paper admitting some limitations in own community / country then is it really not possible to give a chance to their points rather than create an information black out just because they did not talk from platform we (WIkipedians) suppose to be standard one?
Rather than deleting content or using template {{unreliable|section=yes}} I have written following alternate template text (by drawing parellel of Template:Current).
- {{Notice|Following article content is based on currently available source/[https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ1200418 journal] to present probable state of the status/information. ::Since authors of given source/ journal are critical of state of affairs in own country, present information from cited source/ journal is included, assuming good faith about authors, with presumption to have at least partial measure of reliability. ::Information may be updated as and when new sources corroborating or otherwise becomes available, and initial source/journal may have limitation of lack of corroboration or review or citations from other sources or limited circulation of the journal. ::Please feel free to improve this article or discuss changes on the talk page. }}
For example I am also working on another Draft:Hermeneutics of feminism in Sikhism and there are few more such drafts I am working on. Is it possible to source and retain content by finding such some recourse, because there are many small small communities again rights activists and feminist professors getting standard international platform is not always possible.
Is it possible to try above kind of template as a test case?
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku (talk) 06:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- This is not my area of expertise, but I would simply ask Headbomb who tagged it. Our coverage on the topic includes Predatory publishing and Wikipedia:Vanity and predatory publishing. But a list is maintained and I looked for the journal World Journal of Education and the publisher Sciedu without finding anything. The web provider of the article, ERIC does appear on the list and I vaguely remember a discussion between Headbomb and Megalibrarygirl about the site, but not what the discussion was about. ERIC is a digital library (Mega is a librarian) sponsored by the United States Department of Education, so I am unsure why it would be on the list. But be that as it may, neither the journal nor original publisher appear, thus it seems to me the source is not unreliable, if that is based on who hosted the article. As I told you before peer reviewed is the criteria we are hoping for and this profile indicates that it is. (It also indicates that there are other providers of their content, but most appear to be behind paywalls.) Let's see if Headbomb can provide clarification. SusunW (talk) 15:52, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- The World Journal of Education is published by Sciedu Press, a well-known predatory publisher. Likewise OAJI is an illegitimate site giving fake impact factors, and is garbage. That things are hosted on ERIC does not change anything about the origin of the scholarship being predatory (see also Wikipedia:Vanity and predatory publishing#Use in the real world vs use on Wikipedia, which is of relevance here). Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:58, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- I'll take the opportunity to plug in WP:UPSD as a very useful script here, and it will highly both doi:10.5430/wje.v8n6p82 and the above OAJI link as problematic. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:01, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for your input Headbomb I am curious why neither are on the WP lists I highlighted above? We certainly cannot expect editors here to know the back story on every journal in publication, so the script is very useful. Thanks. Bookku, I'd recommend installing the script. SusunW (talk) 17:14, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- If you mean why neither are on WP:JCW/W17 and WP:JCW/E24, the short answer is that neither
|journal=ERICnor|journal=World Journal of Educationwere used in the mainspace as of the last WP:DUMP (i.e. 1 January 2021). For ERIC, that's normal and good, since it's not a journal. For World Journal of Education, that's also normal and good, since it's not a legitimate journal. Likewise if you restrict yourself to the WP:CITEWATCH subsection of WP:JCW. Both the general WP:JCW compilation, and the WP:CITEWATCH-subcompilation will only pick up things that are in the mainspace as of the last dump. If things aren't cited, they aren't picked up. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)- Headbomb, I have the script installed that you told me about so I can see the highlights. I don't remember the name of the script. Can you add it here for Bookku and SusunW to look at? With ERIC I double check the stuff it has indexed now. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:34, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Megalibrarygirl: See WP:UPSD linked above. Or here. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:41, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Thanks Megalibrarygirl for the input. He gave the installation link above and I installed it. SusunW (talk) 18:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Headbomb Thank you!!! I have found the script really useful. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Headbomb, I have the script installed that you told me about so I can see the highlights. I don't remember the name of the script. Can you add it here for Bookku and SusunW to look at? With ERIC I double check the stuff it has indexed now. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:34, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- If you mean why neither are on WP:JCW/W17 and WP:JCW/E24, the short answer is that neither
- Thanks for your input Headbomb I am curious why neither are on the WP lists I highlighted above? We certainly cannot expect editors here to know the back story on every journal in publication, so the script is very useful. Thanks. Bookku, I'd recommend installing the script. SusunW (talk) 17:14, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- I'll take the opportunity to plug in WP:UPSD as a very useful script here, and it will highly both doi:10.5430/wje.v8n6p82 and the above OAJI link as problematic. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:01, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- The World Journal of Education is published by Sciedu Press, a well-known predatory publisher. Likewise OAJI is an illegitimate site giving fake impact factors, and is garbage. That things are hosted on ERIC does not change anything about the origin of the scholarship being predatory (see also Wikipedia:Vanity and predatory publishing#Use in the real world vs use on Wikipedia, which is of relevance here). Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:58, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
It's one of those weeks and its showing. We had a storm pass through earlier in the week and the snow is built up so high in the valley we had to dig our way out of the house just to check on the dog's, Jack and my brother's family. Everyone is safe but I've been stuck in the house unable to go out for almost five days now. It's -19f, right now at mid day, so yeah, it's that time of the year I looooooooove the most. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:16, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- Tsistunagiska, I feel you. Still cold here but warmer than yesterday. 25C/77F, so at least my brain is able to function. My hands and feet still feel like ice cubes, but if I can hold out until Tuesday, it's supposed to get into the 30C/80Fs. I cannot wait. SusunW (talk) 20:51, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- I just want to go outside and see the light. Most of my windows are covered by snow (LoL). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- Come visit. I have tons of light and you will probably think it is toasty in comparison. SusunW (talk) 21:16, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- You should definitely not tempt me like that (LoL). I'm packing now!! --ARoseWolf (Talk) 21:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- Front part of the house has a separate suite with a bed/bath, so you can quarantine for 2 weeks in comfort. LOL SusunW (talk) 21:36, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- You should definitely not tempt me like that (LoL). I'm packing now!! --ARoseWolf (Talk) 21:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- Come visit. I have tons of light and you will probably think it is toasty in comparison. SusunW (talk) 21:16, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- I just want to go outside and see the light. Most of my windows are covered by snow (LoL). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 20:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
DYK for Katherine Loker
On 16 January 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Katherine Loker, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Katherine Loker donated $30 million each to Harvard and USC, and millions more to develop university, medical, and cultural programs in California? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Katherine Loker. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Katherine Loker), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (ie, 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
February 2021 at Women in Red
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--Rosiestep (talk) 15:00, 27 January 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Citizenship of ancient Athenian women
As I was looking into background for our priority on Classicists, I came across Citizenship and the Social Position of Athenian Women in the Classical Age. A Prospect for Overcoming the Antithesis of Male and Female. I don't know how far back you want to go in your article on nationality but it is interesting to see the status of women has a long, long history. There's also an interesting bibliography. Just let me know if you need any further help on nationality. Hope your sister is feeling better.--Ipigott (talk) 12:43, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks Ipigott. We managed to get round the clock nurses scheduled but I'm still checking in a lot until we are sure that her sugar levels are stable and that she is comfortable with the new helpers. It's triply (is that a word?) difficult as she couldn't move without help, is a type 1 diabetic, and was the primary caregiver for her husband who has dementia. She's able to walk short distances on the new hip now and we have finally figured out a food schedule that is keeping her sugar levels more stable. (Medicine plays hell with the levels so the same insulin she was taking before she fell wasn't working to keep her levels in the normal range.) Poco y poco. We are making progress.
- Anyway, I am hoping to be back to my stuff regularly in a few days. It's of necessity been very hit and miss for a couple of weeks. I have feelers out on the Dutch system for Guyana, Suriname, and their islands. And have put out queries for Belize. That will leave me with the British and Danish holdings in the Americas. (I haven't done the French ones, but I understand the system, having worked through Haiti). I was hoping you could help me with Greenland, Iceland and the Virgin Islands. But, I am not there yet and am trying to finish up the Spanish colonies first. The Greek piece is interesting and I'll add it to Europe's section. Haven't even begun to think about that part yet. SusunW (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Need any ice? I could break you off a few 'cicles.
Woke up to -37F/-38C and the high is only -35F. Friday's high is looking to be in -40's and the low Friday night is around -52F. Wanna come up for a snowball fight in that? lol Love ya and hope you are well. My time here will be limited for a while. --ARoseWolf 18:33, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
- Tsistunagiska Not on your life. Try to stay warm. SusunW (talk) 18:55, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Precious anniversary
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| Six years! |
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--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:05, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Can't believe it because it feels like yesterday that we met! - I have a woman on the Main page, Libuše Domanínská, we should start a few more for March, will do Doris Stockhausen next. - Best wishes for care-taking of your sister! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:08, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
- Its a better place with you here Victuallers (talk) 09:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and Victuallers: Thank you both. She's getting stronger every day. We go for a follow-up on Tuesday and will make plans from there. I am hoping soon to be back to editing regularly. SusunW (talk) 14:09, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
WikiProject Canada 10,000 Challenge fourth anniversary
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The Bronze Maple Leaf Award | |
| This maple leaf is awarded to SusunW for writing six Canadian biographies during the fourth year of The 10,000 Challenge of WikiProject Canada. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Reidgreg (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2021 (UTC) |
Congratulations
Gerda's October corner
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I uploaded new pics (click on songs), including "our" concert (after exactly two years without) and a cow sunset --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:09, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
- Kind of wish I was on that pond right now. We have some big thick snowflakes falling today. You can hear them hitting the ground. I'll be out harvesting starting tomorrow so I'll be in the snow all day and pretty much all weekend. Ariana was outside catching them on her tongue and ended with more on her face but the snow is a good source of fresh water. Sure you don't want some of this snow? --ARoseWolf 18:29, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf, not a chance. 80/26 here today and lovely. I'm more likely to be hanging at Gerda Arendt's pond, which is gorgeous. SusunW (talk) 18:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
- 35/2 here for a high today. We'll be in the negatives next week and may not pop above freezing until Spring again. It's typical for mid to late October. Day light is starting to really drop off too. I agree that lake is gorgeous. I picture myself in a small boat wearing a late victorian summer dress sitting under a lace parasol umbrella reading a book. --ARoseWolf 18:42, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
- I imagine! Today: DYK #1700, and I uploaded more images, mostly blue and green, for hope. You can probably imagine who translated the DYK article. Send him praise, perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
- Today, mostly black&white, and standing upright as Psalm 15 says --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- I love your color schemes. SusunW (talk) 21:23, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Today: see yourself, read about a hymn praying to not be on earth in vain, about a comics artist whose characters have character (another collaboration of the "perennial gang", broken by one of us banned), and in memory of the last prima donna assoluta, Edita Gruberová. I had to go to two grave sites last week, one who died now, one who died 10 years ago, so standing upright and in black seems appropriate. More colours - but subdued - can be had on hikes, - updated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for all you do, Gerda Arendt, not just the writing but the constant encouragement of others. I appreciate you and your constant presence. SusunW (talk) 15:55, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you! Today: a scandal, and more fall colours, including a short sermon. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:05, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps you can help me because a composer died (on his 103rd birthday), and it's all in Spanish. Any help welcome, including to check if some may be copyvio, because it reads a bit like not only translated but also copied. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- I'm on it Gerda Arendt, but I am still drinking my first cup of coffee, so I'll be slow. SusunW (talk) 13:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you so much, and no rush, and now even a ref in English. I'll be out now, and will see if we can nominate him for Recent deaths later today. Udo Zimmermann died 22 Oct, and was ready the same day, and appeared 25 Oct, - that's what we call recent. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Okay, Gerda Arendt, I think I've done what I can do. I took out that long list of works as it appeared to be a copy paste and also took out the source Ecured, because I couldn't tell if it was curated and because it appeared to be a copy paste of another work, which I did cite. I did note from other pieces what are considered his most notable pieces. Let me know if I can do anything else to help. SusunW (talk) 18:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you so much, and no rush, and now even a ref in English. I'll be out now, and will see if we can nominate him for Recent deaths later today. Udo Zimmermann died 22 Oct, and was ready the same day, and appeared 25 Oct, - that's what we call recent. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- I'm on it Gerda Arendt, but I am still drinking my first cup of coffee, so I'll be slow. SusunW (talk) 13:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for all you do, Gerda Arendt, not just the writing but the constant encouragement of others. I appreciate you and your constant presence. SusunW (talk) 15:55, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Today: see yourself, read about a hymn praying to not be on earth in vain, about a comics artist whose characters have character (another collaboration of the "perennial gang", broken by one of us banned), and in memory of the last prima donna assoluta, Edita Gruberová. I had to go to two grave sites last week, one who died now, one who died 10 years ago, so standing upright and in black seems appropriate. More colours - but subdued - can be had on hikes, - updated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- I love your color schemes. SusunW (talk) 21:23, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- 35/2 here for a high today. We'll be in the negatives next week and may not pop above freezing until Spring again. It's typical for mid to late October. Day light is starting to really drop off too. I agree that lake is gorgeous. I picture myself in a small boat wearing a late victorian summer dress sitting under a lace parasol umbrella reading a book. --ARoseWolf 18:42, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf, not a chance. 80/26 here today and lovely. I'm more likely to be hanging at Gerda Arendt's pond, which is gorgeous. SusunW (talk) 18:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
What's the weather like down there today, Susun? --ARoseWolf 18:07, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf Good to see you here. Hope all is well. Beautiful blue skies, sun, hummingbirds in the garden and 26/79. We'll probably have rain around 5, as is typical for an hour this time of year. SusunW (talk) 18:20, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's good to see you too. That sounds lovely. I think I may go there in my mind. We have just a touch of sunlight today but the temperature difference wont be great from high to low which means more snow soon. Its -7/19 right now and the high will reach -5/23, low will be around -9/16. I suspect the last running surface water will be frozen solid after this next dip. Later this week we will be very close to -2/-18 for a low before it warms back up. I know how absurd that sounds, The warm spell will see it only get into the low 20's. Hummingbirds sound nice about right now. --ARoseWolf 18:28, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- I honestly have no idea how you can survive there. I would struggle mightily. SusunW (talk) 18:43, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Honestly, it's all about survival and planning and planning for the things you planned to go wrong and planning for the plan that you planned when your plan goes wrong to go wrong, et cetera, et cetera. I will admit that you can go a little crazy up here so if you wonder why I am the way I am, well, there ya go (lol). --ARoseWolf 18:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Anyway, for warmth of hearts: memories in friendship --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:20, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- significant day in many respects --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
- Honestly, it's all about survival and planning and planning for the things you planned to go wrong and planning for the plan that you planned when your plan goes wrong to go wrong, et cetera, et cetera. I will admit that you can go a little crazy up here so if you wonder why I am the way I am, well, there ya go (lol). --ARoseWolf 18:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- I honestly have no idea how you can survive there. I would struggle mightily. SusunW (talk) 18:43, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- It's good to see you too. That sounds lovely. I think I may go there in my mind. We have just a touch of sunlight today but the temperature difference wont be great from high to low which means more snow soon. Its -7/19 right now and the high will reach -5/23, low will be around -9/16. I suspect the last running surface water will be frozen solid after this next dip. Later this week we will be very close to -2/-18 for a low before it warms back up. I know how absurd that sounds, The warm spell will see it only get into the low 20's. Hummingbirds sound nice about right now. --ARoseWolf 18:28, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Unity Dow you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. 
This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mujinga -- Mujinga (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
The article Unity Dow you nominated as a good article has passed 
; see Talk:Unity Dow for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mujinga -- Mujinga (talk) 15:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- You write you really want the image slot for the DYK - how about this slight crop? I think it would look better at 110px.
.jpg)
Compare the original:
--GRuban (talk) 13:27, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
November 2021 at Women in Red
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--Innisfree987 (talk) 21:33, 24 October 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Your GA nomination of Miriam Soljak
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Miriam Soljak you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of DanCherek -- DanCherek (talk) 00:01, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
ITN recognition for Alfredo Diez Nieto
On 27 October 2021, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Alfredo Diez Nieto, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. PFHLai (talk) 03:58, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
You did that so well, Susun! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:23, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Glad to be able to help, Gerda Arendt. SusunW (talk) 13:24, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Miriam Soljak
The article Miriam Soljak you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold 
. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Miriam Soljak for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of DanCherek -- DanCherek (talk) 17:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Miriam Soljak
The article Miriam Soljak you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Miriam Soljak for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of DanCherek -- DanCherek (talk) 00:01, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Australian nationality law
Just checking that you are aware of this - Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Australian nationality law/archive1. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Gog the Mild, I didn't know. I took October off from the legal articles and am struggling to keep myself on task with them. I have 22 more African ones to write and that doesn't even touch Europe or Asia, which I haven't started. I would prefer not to spend the time in a lengthy review, but if you are asking me to review it, I will. The last one took almost a month to clear and I have a GA review that has taken over a month and is still not approved. (I need to invoke a two-week rule, if you cannot finish in that time, I will ask someone else because I have to move on. {devil horns}.) SusunW (talk) 20:58, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Greetings. No, I'm not. I didn't want it to go through with you ignorant of it, nor for reviewers to put a lot of work in if when you found out about it you were going to give it one look and speedily oppose. Feel free to ignore it. I believe that I have already offered to take over any GANs which are, umm, how can I phrase this? Actually I can't, you'll have to guess what I mean
. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:05, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Gog the Mild Thank you. I have briefly looked this one over. The issues with the previous nom, i.e. confusion over terms and citations to law rather than secondary sources, do not appear to be an issue this time around. That was what took the most time to resolve, so I think he gained insight from the previous FAC. And yes, I know what you mean. In my head, I have invoked the two week rule of my new personal policy. We'll see what happens next week. SusunW (talk) 21:15, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Greetings. No, I'm not. I didn't want it to go through with you ignorant of it, nor for reviewers to put a lot of work in if when you found out about it you were going to give it one look and speedily oppose. Feel free to ignore it. I believe that I have already offered to take over any GANs which are, umm, how can I phrase this? Actually I can't, you'll have to guess what I mean
It's that time again.
Winter break is looming, Susun. I will miss you sorely when I shut this down but I will return in the Spring. I look forward to seeing all that is accomplished and facing a renewed focus and a return to editing in main space. Please stay safe and know that I care deeply for you and my wiki-friends here. --ARoseWolf 20:13, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Asareel, stay safe, warm and healthy. With any luck, I will have finished Africa by the time you emerge and be well on the way through Europe, but who knows. I put the quilt on the bed last week and have resorted to my sweater. These 20/70 degree temperatures are reminding me that winter is nearing. Fortunately day temps are still around 28/82, so I am not yet miserable and my fingers can still type. SusunW (talk) 20:22, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Next week will be our first negative Fahrenheit temps for highs. Wednesday it will be -2f for a high and -9f for a low. We may not hit the double digit highs again until Spring. It is a marathon until then. I will be fine and stay as warm as I can. --ARoseWolf 20:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- I look forward to your return in the spring and will celebrate you with the colors of my garden each time I go there (50 times a day, at least), while you are freezing up north. Mayhaps when you return we will find an article we can collaborate on. SusunW (talk) 20:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oh wow, I would so love that. I will keep that in my heart all Winter. The thought of collaborating with you on an article warms my heart so much it might melt the icecaps. That made my year. I need to be careful (lol) (for the sake of the Polar Bears I'll keep it together). I look forward to it with gleeful appreciation. --ARoseWolf 20:38, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Good morning, my friend. Popped on to see you are still pushing out incredible articles. I am so impressed by your efforts and wish you continued success. You are an amazing editor and such a positive for the encyclopedia. Keep doing you. We hit the negatives hard to start this week (-21f right now). It's just barely snowing outside. Hard to believe it was actually warmer around midnight. The wood stoves are cranking out the heat so my toesies are warm. I have a few hours to do some things on here so I'll get to being productive. Stay safe! --ARoseWolf 14:42, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Good to see you on here. I thought of you last night when I was freezing! Temps here were 15.5/60 and it was awful since we have no heat. Hope you are staying safe. I've been incredibly busy here, but not making much headway on nationality. Today I am trying to focus there. SusunW (talk) 18:27, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- You do what you can. I'm the same. We are all coming from different paths and different directions pull on us all day. I'm pretty sure I came on today because you thought of me last night. I will say that we, sometimes, need something new to break our focus so we can refocus. If you being busy on something new has caused that break to help you to refocus then it was worth it. Regardless, just allow your creative mind to flow like a lazy river rather than force and push it like rapids off a waterfall. It's in you, it's part of who you are. I have read your work here and studied your words long enough to know the creative person you are. My words are just an encouragement to continue your focus and provide context for you. This isn't just how I see you, it is you, it is your vibrations and your strings which play your Song in everything you do and are left on everything you touch like a fingerprint. --ARoseWolf 18:47, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Good to see you on here. I thought of you last night when I was freezing! Temps here were 15.5/60 and it was awful since we have no heat. Hope you are staying safe. I've been incredibly busy here, but not making much headway on nationality. Today I am trying to focus there. SusunW (talk) 18:27, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Good morning, my friend. Popped on to see you are still pushing out incredible articles. I am so impressed by your efforts and wish you continued success. You are an amazing editor and such a positive for the encyclopedia. Keep doing you. We hit the negatives hard to start this week (-21f right now). It's just barely snowing outside. Hard to believe it was actually warmer around midnight. The wood stoves are cranking out the heat so my toesies are warm. I have a few hours to do some things on here so I'll get to being productive. Stay safe! --ARoseWolf 14:42, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oh wow, I would so love that. I will keep that in my heart all Winter. The thought of collaborating with you on an article warms my heart so much it might melt the icecaps. That made my year. I need to be careful (lol) (for the sake of the Polar Bears I'll keep it together). I look forward to it with gleeful appreciation. --ARoseWolf 20:38, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- I look forward to your return in the spring and will celebrate you with the colors of my garden each time I go there (50 times a day, at least), while you are freezing up north. Mayhaps when you return we will find an article we can collaborate on. SusunW (talk) 20:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Next week will be our first negative Fahrenheit temps for highs. Wednesday it will be -2f for a high and -9f for a low. We may not hit the double digit highs again until Spring. It is a marathon until then. I will be fine and stay as warm as I can. --ARoseWolf 20:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
WikiProject Canada 10,000 Challenge fifth anniversary
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The Bronze Maple Leaf Award | |
| This maple leaf is awarded to SusunW for writing the biography Marie-Louise Lacoste during the fifth year of The 10,000 Challenge of WikiProject Canada. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Reidgreg (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2021 (UTC) |
April
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memories: two people on DYK, both connected to Oper Frankfurt, and don't miss yesterday's video of Pink Floyd given to me! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:07, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for always focusing on the beauty of the world. It does inspire us to keep moving forward. SusunW (talk) 22:00, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
- thank you, yes, it helps - Easter - resilience - Spring - thank you for improving articles in April --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:39, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- dance and singing, peace doves and icecream --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you Gerda Arendt. Life's little pleasures. SusunW (talk) 21:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
- big excitement: now you can listen to what I heard live yesterday, Kyiv Symphony Orchestra, Luigi Gaggero & Diana Tishchenko (violin) / Kulturpalast Dresden (25 April 2022 on YouTube (that's 25 April in Dresden, a different violinist, but the same program) - ours pictured here - dove sono as encore --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:16, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you Gerda Arendt. Life's little pleasures. SusunW (talk) 21:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
DYK for Andrea Pető
On 1 May 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Andrea Pető, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Hungarian historian Andrea Pető believes that "right to be forgotten" policies should not be applied to the Holocaust? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Andrea Pető. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Andrea Pető), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
DYK for Flora Botton
On 1 May 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Flora Botton, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Mexican sinologist Flora Botton was rescued by an American soldier when being transported on a train from Bergen-Belsen in 1945? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Flora Botton. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Flora Botton), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
May 2022 at Women in Red
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--Innisfree987 (talk) 04:57, 2 May 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Citation format: sfn
I recently switched over to using the sfn citation/bibliography format that you use in many articles. I like how it can pinpoint specific pages in the reference material and creates a bibliographic list. In the AFD for Marty Kemp, a frequent WIR contributor mentioned that they find the format unfamiliar and a barrier. I had different encounter with an editor changing ref formatting of Domingo Emanuelli (I later restored it). Have you received similar feedback? I certainly do not want to introduce barriers for future contributors. TJMSmith (talk) 16:39, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- TJMSmith I've only ever encountered one editor (who had made exactly 3 edits to WP) who complained about it. I like it not only because of what you said, but because I don't have to try to "read around" the citations when editing text. In my experience, most people who contribute completely ignore the ref formatting and use whatever they are familiar with, so I find that comment odd. While our guidelines do say to use the MOS already in place, that doesn't often occur and shouldn't hinder others from contributing, IMO. SusunW (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TJMSmith Popping in to this, since you can't use sfn easily in Visual Editor, I do think it is a barrier to new editors in some senses. I didn't use it when I started either. (You can see how I did refs when I started out in: Nikolai Utin.) But I don't think it's such a significant barrier that you should worry about hypothetical maybe-future editors being turned off by it. -- asilvering (talk) 20:26, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for weighing in here Asilvering. It should come as no surprise to anyone that I have zero clue to what "Visual Editor" even is, so I don't use that. But it's something to consider. SusunW (talk) 20:29, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Haha! It's the "what you see is what you get" editor, rather than the source code editor. If you try making an edit while logged out, you should get a window that appears to ask you which one you would prefer to use. You presumably turned it off ages ago. I tend to switch between them depending on what I'm doing. I expect most brand-new editors pick the Visual Editor. -- asilvering (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- I have some vague recollection that somewhere deep in the past we were offered the opportunity to turn it on (I am sure I never turned it off , because like how would you do that?) Wikipedia editing tends to remind me of those dreaded fortran, dbase, and dos programming classes from university days. So, I stick with what I know how to do and if I need other technical help I go to people I have discovered that have magic wands available. I have no magic. SusunW (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- I have some vague recollection that somewhere deep in the past we were offered the opportunity to turn it on (I am sure I never turned it off
- Haha! It's the "what you see is what you get" editor, rather than the source code editor. If you try making an edit while logged out, you should get a window that appears to ask you which one you would prefer to use. You presumably turned it off ages ago. I tend to switch between them depending on what I'm doing. I expect most brand-new editors pick the Visual Editor. -- asilvering (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for weighing in here Asilvering. It should come as no surprise to anyone that I have zero clue to what "Visual Editor" even is, so I don't use that. But it's something to consider. SusunW (talk) 20:29, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
One more c/e request
Greetings @ SusunW, @ARoseWolf:,
It's one more micro–aggression / discrimination news from same state of Kerala from where Mansiya V. P. belongs, few week back you helped me in c/e.
It is tough to imagine a school boy is allowed to come over school stage and accept accolades but a school girl is not. The discrimination comes in many forms and may not be unique to Indian state of Kerala but such micro–aggression / discrimination rarely make it to news or books, though social media made it much easier. With a single instance reported by media encyclopedic article would be difficult so I covered the same in sister project 'wiki news'. The project seem to have own review process but my linguistic limitation need additional c/e support, ( I am still to get aquatint with any one on that project). I would be happy and request if either of you can spare some time for c/e if easily possible.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 10:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Bookku Sorry, lots going on right now in real life. I know nothing at all about editing on any platform other than en.WP. SusunW (talk) 18:19, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Bookku, the very first thing I notice is their definition of NPOV,
"It must also comply with the neutral point of view — that is, the article must represent all sides of a story fairly and in an unbiased way."
This is different than en:wp's definition. On en:wp NPOV means"representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic."
That doesn't seem far off but it could be. Consensus has held that we do not have to actively seek out opposing reliable sources to make sure that we are representing every view of a subject equally. We are only to represent all sides of what is written in the reliable source we are referencing when writing an article. Slightly different story when we are writing a BLP. It just seems to me that they are saying that you need to introduce all sides in the article including the opposition viewpoint and reference that to sources. Otherwise the article will not get posted. --ARoseWolf 19:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Bookku, the very first thing I notice is their definition of NPOV,
Thanks for your support. "Flummoxed" pretty well describes how I'm feeling. I've never nominated for ITN before; are these specious arguments the sort of thing that goes on all the time there? Am I taking crazy pills to believe the topic is appropriate for ITN? —swpbT • go beyond • bad idea 19:57, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- Swpb Can't answer any of those questions. I have only ever worked on ITN topics with other people who were familiar with the process. Like many of WP drama boards, I have it on my watchlist and rarely comment unless I see something that I believe I can contribute to. The statement that it wasn't being covered abroad was clearly incorrect, as I have read about it nearly every day in our local press and I am not in the US. Like many "women's issues" there is not broad understanding, as is illustrated by the "easily substituted" comment. When things escalate like this, I bow out. SusunW (talk) 20:38, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
RE: GA noms
Hello! Thanks for the ping re: the rainbow logo. I've responded on the WiR page. Also, I see you are active at WiR + WiG and have experience writing Good article, but I'm curious if you ever review GA nominations. I ask because I've nominated Bolivia Carmichaels, Flawless Shade, and Poison Waters for GA status. If not interested, no worries, just figured I'd ask in case the subjects piqued your interest. Happy editing! ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:08, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- Another Believer the truthful answer is that reviewing stresses me out. But that being said, I am trying to push myself to do more reviews. I'll do one of them and we'll see how it goes. SusunW (talk) 17:45, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- Totally up to you! I've promoted many GAs myself, but never completed a review, so I get it. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:47, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Had to give proper credit to you, chica. You are so amazing! I was like a schoolgirl all fawning over the article (lol). Once its accepted should we add an authority control for Marcia? I found her WorldCat identity. Looking to see what else she may have as an identifier. I'll also add Wikiproject templates to the talk page. Im sure one of our amazing category specialist will pick it up from there and review/add the categories. --ARoseWolf 15:56, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I am still working on it. Lots to do before it is ready for mainspace, IMO. But, I'll get there. SusunW (talk) 16:11, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm letting you do your thing then. =) --ARoseWolf 16:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- Gosh, when I suggested someone take a look at it, I was hoping for a clean-up, not a WP:GA! But I think that's what you've written. You might consider nominating it? -- asilvering (talk) 20:14, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
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- Asilvering I was actually thinking about it. She's fascinating and I really enjoyed working on her. SusunW (talk) 20:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for doing such sweet things, and for smiling! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:59, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- She's sweet as honey and so are you, Gerda!!! --ARoseWolf 12:30, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and ARoseWolf: Thank you both. Y'all's continued support and encouragement is always appreciated. Sometimes when I can't seem to write on what I really want to finish, it is helpful for me to jump over and contribute somewhere else. The distraction of writing something else and your encouragement, always pulls me out of my writing block. I appreciate you both so much. SusunW (talk) 12:38, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm always going to push you to be the greatest awesome you can possibly be. You aren't just a great writer or researcher, you are prolific in my view. What you do is critical to the encyclopedia, same for Gerda and everything she does. I am amazed by you both, truly moved by listening to your Song here. --ARoseWolf 12:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf I am truly thankful your path and mine have allowed us both to walk together. SusunW (talk) 12:54, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- rainbow and roses for all! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:19, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- We each have not met by happenstance. Whether guided by some providential power, attracted by each other's light or called by the vibrations and hums of each other's frequencies, here we are and I am grateful for the both of you. I sing over you daily and my thoughts migrate to your side imparting strength, hope and love into your Life while admiring the beauty of your colour's on display and the masterpiece that is your Song. You are part of me now and I carry that for as long as I exist. That is the beauty of community and the creative power by which we build this project. Without one we can not have the other, not in full. --ARoseWolf 13:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, exactly! SusunW (talk) 14:05, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- yes - my choir in Idstein performed an evensong (pictured), two years and two months after the last! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- I needed your gentle reminder to listen to music today, Gerda Arendt. Stress is not a good thing, but a nudge and some melody and now I feel better. SusunW (talk) 20:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- that sounds so nice! - a strong woman singing more --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- ... and the next --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:59, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- I needed your gentle reminder to listen to music today, Gerda Arendt. Stress is not a good thing, but a nudge and some melody and now I feel better. SusunW (talk) 20:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- yes - my choir in Idstein performed an evensong (pictured), two years and two months after the last! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, exactly! SusunW (talk) 14:05, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- We each have not met by happenstance. Whether guided by some providential power, attracted by each other's light or called by the vibrations and hums of each other's frequencies, here we are and I am grateful for the both of you. I sing over you daily and my thoughts migrate to your side imparting strength, hope and love into your Life while admiring the beauty of your colour's on display and the masterpiece that is your Song. You are part of me now and I carry that for as long as I exist. That is the beauty of community and the creative power by which we build this project. Without one we can not have the other, not in full. --ARoseWolf 13:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- rainbow and roses for all! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:19, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf I am truly thankful your path and mine have allowed us both to walk together. SusunW (talk) 12:54, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm always going to push you to be the greatest awesome you can possibly be. You aren't just a great writer or researcher, you are prolific in my view. What you do is critical to the encyclopedia, same for Gerda and everything she does. I am amazed by you both, truly moved by listening to your Song here. --ARoseWolf 12:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and ARoseWolf: Thank you both. Y'all's continued support and encouragement is always appreciated. Sometimes when I can't seem to write on what I really want to finish, it is helpful for me to jump over and contribute somewhere else. The distraction of writing something else and your encouragement, always pulls me out of my writing block. I appreciate you both so much. SusunW (talk) 12:38, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- She's sweet as honey and so are you, Gerda!!! --ARoseWolf 12:30, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for doing such sweet things, and for smiling! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:59, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Asilvering I was actually thinking about it. She's fascinating and I really enjoyed working on her. SusunW (talk) 20:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Marcia Herndon
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Marcia Herndon you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of CorbieVreccan -- CorbieVreccan (talk) 23:01, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Marie-Josephine Gerin-Lajoie
Hey there. I saw that you made Marie-Louise Lacoste for the 10,000 Challenge for Canada. I was wondering if you were interested in making Marie-Josephine Gerin-Lajoie. She was the daughter of Marie Lacoste Gérin-Lajoie, who was the daughter of your article Marie-Louise Lacoste. Marie-Josephine has a Canada Post stamp on her. If you're interested, please let me know. Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 02:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- On a side note- Marie-Louise Lacoste would make a great GAN. TJMSmith (talk) 02:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- @MrLinkinPark333 and TJMSmith:, thanks for bringing Gerin-Lajoie and Lacoste to my attention. I can add them to my never-ending list of things to work on. But, right now I am hip-deep in real life stuff, work on Marcia Herndon, work on Gerlin Bean, and still yet to finish the project of women's nationality. I promise I will look at both suggestions, just not sure when I can get to it. SusunW (talk) 13:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello Susan, hope you're well! I wondered if you'd be interested in expanding this. I came across a delightful album here and she seems to be one of the big names in Hawaiian music and an interesting character who should have a much better article. Had 12 children!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:56, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hey Dr. Blofeld, good to hear from you. I'll add her to my list of things to look at, but at present am booked on other things and not sure when I can get to it. Hope all is well with you. SusunW (talk) 13:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Marcia Herndon
The article Marcia Herndon you nominated as a good article has failed 
; see Talk:Marcia Herndon for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of CorbieVreccan -- CorbieVreccan (talk) 22:01, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry to see this has failed but I really think it may be more useful for you to spend your time on other articles. Thanks in any case for all the useful improvements you have made to the article. Let's see how it fares over the coming weeks.--Ipigott (talk) 11:21, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- I agree 100%. Thank you for all your hard work, Susun. --ARoseWolf 13:05, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- I withdrew it, as it seemed unlikely to have an objective review solely based upon the criteria. It also couldn't be considered stable with all the changes and lack of being able to reach consensus on whether to simply remove the material or leave in her/her colleagues claims with explanations that they were problematic. No worries. I appreciate you both and the collegial spirit in which we work. SusunW (talk) 13:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- I could tell that or something else was giving you stress, Susun. It's not worth it. I always keep George's words in mind and have kind of made it a key element in my philosophy here. Ultimately, there is no way Wikipedia can contain the sum total of human existence so an article here is no more or less accurate than the close to six billion perspectives that will never make it in an article. Wikipedia is not about relevance or accuracy, truth or facts, per se, because those are all based on perspective and are mostly subjective. --ARoseWolf 14:53, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf it always causes me stress when people are aggressive, make assumptions of other's intent, and do not focus on working together respectfully. It takes only one person like that to disrupt the working environment. I do think we may be on the path to discovering the sourcing that is needed. I genuinely hope that is the case. The article is better for the varied contributions and bringing it to wider attention was needed. I thank you for your words. Peace to you and thank your for your friendship. SusunW (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- Like you, Susun, I found the comments of several of the later contributors surprisingly disrespectful, especially when we were in the process of trying to sort out her questionable Cherokee connections. Thanks to ARoseWolf we were already making good progress. Given the reviewer's reactions, I feel rather guilty about suggesting you add background explanations but I sincerely thought it would assist readers like me who have little understanding of the history or traditions of indigenous Americans. Unfortunately, I now have a feeling that even if you find pertinent sourcing, further edits to the article are liable to lead to more opposition. Nevertheless I sympathize with your wish to straighten things out. Maybe it would be useful to post any new findings on the article's talk page before updating the article itself. I've come across a number of cases where this seems to work.--Ipigott (talk) 10:00, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- If you have not already seen it, you might be interested in this, which no doubt explains the reviewer's interest in the biography. You can find a copy of the list which was deleted in December 2018 by searching for List of people of self-identified Cherokee ancestry on everybodywiki dot com.--Ipigott (talk) 10:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ipigott You shouldn't remotely feel bad. A comprehensive article should inform people who have no/limited knowledge of the subject with a balanced overview. That's what you tried to bring to the article and why varied input makes an article better. Experts and non-experts working together for a common goal of improvement is a good thing. I cannot see how just deleting the controversial information about a topic is bringing balance nor how it is helpful for our collective understanding. As with any article where discussion becomes disrespectful of others, I won't be editing it again. Too much work to do elsewhere with too little time to do all that I want to do.
- I was aware of that discussion when it happened and to my mind it was a definite example of why consensus as a policy is a failed system. People commenting are not required to know anything about the topic at hand — they can control the narrative and twist it to gain support from others who also have no knowledge of the topic. IMO, juried teams from projects should be the persons who make decisions about inclusion/deletion on topics that impact under-represented communities and those that could cause harm by inclusion of misinformation. If the jury finds the topic to be valid, then both experts and non-experts should work together to ensure that the topic presents the material in a way that is easily understood. But since one would need consensus to arrive at a different system, we are stuck with what we have. SusunW (talk) 13:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- You are quite right. You should never reveal your expertise in any given area on Wikipedia. If you do, you will be quickly shot down and people will remember you as someone whose opinions are not valid. Fortunately we have one or two exceptions such as David Eppstein who has established a reputation for mathematics and Doc James, widely recognized as an expert on health care. Like many contributors, I have avoided saying anything about my professional experience on my user page, listing only my interests. I see you have adopted more or less the same approach. Under such cover, we have both been able to contribute much to Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 18:04, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- I do feel like I owe you an apology over the BITE-y comments made. I wanted to bring in voices that might could have offered insight and worked with us to confirm whether she did have Cherokee ancestry or did not. Never did I think that particular topic had any bearing on the style of writing, verifiability of the information in the article or the subjects notability. I didn't link that to the criteria for GA. It doesn't matter whether her claims for herself are accurate in my opinion, so long as her claims about herself were verified to be her claims in reliable sources, and not those of others, which academic journals generally are considered to be reliable per consensus. Even with her claim being alleged as a lie it is a huge part of her notability as it was a springboard into her studies in ethnomusicology and anthropology. We don't have to agree with her conclusions or the way she obtained her notability but the fact she was notable is why her article was written and approved through the AfC process. You did not deserve the immediate lack of good faith assumptions for what you had written. In my opinion this is a big misunderstanding of WP:HOAX. As always I appreciate you both and I am again, sorry for the undue stress and mischaracterization of your edits. --ARoseWolf 18:38, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf you have been nothing but collegial and aren't responsible for the comments of others. You owe me no apology, as I encouraged you to seek other input. The GA criteria are exactly as you explain above and have nothing to do with her claims being accurate. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about a lot of things, in this situation, but you and I are totally good. I appreciate what you tried to do and your always encouraging spirit. SusunW (talk) 18:52, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- I do feel like I owe you an apology over the BITE-y comments made. I wanted to bring in voices that might could have offered insight and worked with us to confirm whether she did have Cherokee ancestry or did not. Never did I think that particular topic had any bearing on the style of writing, verifiability of the information in the article or the subjects notability. I didn't link that to the criteria for GA. It doesn't matter whether her claims for herself are accurate in my opinion, so long as her claims about herself were verified to be her claims in reliable sources, and not those of others, which academic journals generally are considered to be reliable per consensus. Even with her claim being alleged as a lie it is a huge part of her notability as it was a springboard into her studies in ethnomusicology and anthropology. We don't have to agree with her conclusions or the way she obtained her notability but the fact she was notable is why her article was written and approved through the AfC process. You did not deserve the immediate lack of good faith assumptions for what you had written. In my opinion this is a big misunderstanding of WP:HOAX. As always I appreciate you both and I am again, sorry for the undue stress and mischaracterization of your edits. --ARoseWolf 18:38, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- You are quite right. You should never reveal your expertise in any given area on Wikipedia. If you do, you will be quickly shot down and people will remember you as someone whose opinions are not valid. Fortunately we have one or two exceptions such as David Eppstein who has established a reputation for mathematics and Doc James, widely recognized as an expert on health care. Like many contributors, I have avoided saying anything about my professional experience on my user page, listing only my interests. I see you have adopted more or less the same approach. Under such cover, we have both been able to contribute much to Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 18:04, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- ARoseWolf it always causes me stress when people are aggressive, make assumptions of other's intent, and do not focus on working together respectfully. It takes only one person like that to disrupt the working environment. I do think we may be on the path to discovering the sourcing that is needed. I genuinely hope that is the case. The article is better for the varied contributions and bringing it to wider attention was needed. I thank you for your words. Peace to you and thank your for your friendship. SusunW (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- I could tell that or something else was giving you stress, Susun. It's not worth it. I always keep George's words in mind and have kind of made it a key element in my philosophy here. Ultimately, there is no way Wikipedia can contain the sum total of human existence so an article here is no more or less accurate than the close to six billion perspectives that will never make it in an article. Wikipedia is not about relevance or accuracy, truth or facts, per se, because those are all based on perspective and are mostly subjective. --ARoseWolf 14:53, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- I withdrew it, as it seemed unlikely to have an objective review solely based upon the criteria. It also couldn't be considered stable with all the changes and lack of being able to reach consensus on whether to simply remove the material or leave in her/her colleagues claims with explanations that they were problematic. No worries. I appreciate you both and the collegial spirit in which we work. SusunW (talk) 13:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- I agree 100%. Thank you for all your hard work, Susun. --ARoseWolf 13:05, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
So, I'm wondering how I was aggressive, disrespectful and BITE-y. I agree that she is notable but I simply disagree that falsehoods should be perpetuated. Academia is rife with pretendians and has been since the early 1970s. Prior to that it was Speck and others taking the word of pretendians like Red Thunder Cloud aka Cromwell Ashbie Hawkins which in many cases actually came close to destroying language and culture. It's rather hurtful and is actually harmful to assume that Native people are angry or aggressive when speaking on topics we are intimately familiar with and that impact our lives. You could be misinterpreting matter-of-factness, frustration or any number of things. While we are slowly claiming our space in academia, journalism, entertainment and in the literary world, institutes such as Wikipedia still suppress our voices over the voices of others or they choose the voices that allows them to do this. I ask that you please reread what was said without assigning tone as well as reread how y'all painted Native people in this thread. Thanks. Indigenous girl (talk) 18:41, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- Indigenous girl your statements on the article though direct, were solution-oriented, IMO. The problematic behavior was a direct assertion that an open discussion of what was to be done and how it could be brought to experts was "misinterpreted" as being underhanded, combined with a closed-wall approach to discussion. I am confused how my comments on this page could be construed to have anything to do with Native people, or generalizations about them. My intent was to discuss only editing behavior and policy. If you see anything different in my comments, I would appreciate you pointing that out to me and I sincerely apologize. As I said above "there is a lot of misunderstanding about a lot of things, in this situation". SusunW (talk) 19:55, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- I too would like to know how anything we said above related to Native voices specifically or generally. We discussed editor behavior, content and Wikipedia policy. Failure to follow WP:AGF can manifest in many forms and often is borne out of frustration, matter-of-factness and any number of other things but is often not misinterpreted though the reasons for why one may assume bad faith by claiming an otherwise good faith editor was editing underhandedly may certainly be based on misinterpretation. Either way, I do apologize if you were hurt by anything said. --ARoseWolf 20:18, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- And I want to note this yet again: I have so much respect for you, @Indigenous girl. I'm not just saying that or being patronizing. That's a fact. But to be honest I'm a little hurt you would assume bad faith in anything I have said above which is my perspective on all that has been discussed and is just a validated and relevant as your own perspective, even more so because I can place it in policy. My respect remains and maybe that's why it hurts even more. Now I'm mad at myself for getting hurt. --ARoseWolf 20:27, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- Susun, you mentioned people were angry. I'm too tired to grab the diffs. You also said people were being aggressive. Ipigott stated "Like you, Susun, I found the comments of several of the later contributors surprisingly disrespectful, especially when we were in the process of trying to sort out her questionable Cherokee connections.". ARoseWolf, you said,"I do feel like I owe you an apology over the BITE-y comments made." there were no newbs in the convo. It is my understanding that BITE-y would be in reference to newbs but I admit I could be wrong.
- I didn't come here looking for an apology though I appreciate it. I came here because while folks may not be aware of how they are using language, that language has been weaponized against my community for a long time and it's really hurtful (especially coming from Susun and ARoseWolf). I am not assuming intent, intent doesn't matter, the effect was the use of weaponized language in a conversation with Indigenous people. I want to be clear, I'm only speaking for myself here and I only came here because I care. If I didn't care about you I would have let it go and simply thought bad thoughts in my head but that's not where I want to be. I'm happy to take this conversation off 'pedia, you can email me from my talk page. Indigenous girl (talk) 21:09, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- I too would like to know how anything we said above related to Native voices specifically or generally. We discussed editor behavior, content and Wikipedia policy. Failure to follow WP:AGF can manifest in many forms and often is borne out of frustration, matter-of-factness and any number of other things but is often not misinterpreted though the reasons for why one may assume bad faith by claiming an otherwise good faith editor was editing underhandedly may certainly be based on misinterpretation. Either way, I do apologize if you were hurt by anything said. --ARoseWolf 20:18, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm really not interested in continuing to expend energy on this, especially over a barely notable article. But you have said some disturbing things, Susun, that should be noted.
I think what you're getting at is you believe the article sources that are shockingly inaccurate about Cherokee culture, history, ceremonies, songs and games are somehow WP:RS, just because other non-Cherokee academics have co-signed them. But this is the main problem with the article - the sources are terrible. Maybe read the WP:NDNID article, not just for how we cite Native identity, but it may give you some insight into how we evaluate all claims around Indigenous data. As Indigenous girl said, in the Indigenous Wikiproject, we are used to having to deal with these misconceptions and mistakes on WP, literally every day. You have the wikiproject banner on your page, but you seem surprised by all of this. I didn't think we needed to pad or handhold the explanations. I thought that if you cared about the truth on here, you would understand why it's disturbing to see misrepresentations wind up in articles, and then proposed as worthy of GA status.
My impression, based on your words you have written, is that you think we are "angry",[1] "aggressive"[2] and incapable of being "objective"[3] because you wrote about a pretendian. But by the time we were asked to review the article, you had indicated you knew she might be a pretendian. The way we responded had nothing to do with you as a person, Susun. We were evaluating sources, and talking about the common misconceptions we encounter on a daily basis on WP, as well as elsewhere in the world. The emotions you seem to think are going on here are coming from you. None of us has any hidden agenda here, which you seem to imply with your confusing, "closed-wall approach to discussion"[4] comment. All of our communications were public. Please stop projecting this stuff on us at the Indigenous Wikiproject. As I said previously, Peace, - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 21:11, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
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