User talk:Snow Rise/Archive 23
Administrators' newsletter – July 2023 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2023).
Administrator changes
Bureaucrat changes
Guideline and policy news
- Contributions to the English Wikipedia are now released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License (CC BY-SA 4.0) license instead of CC BY-SA 3.0. Contributions are still also released under the GFDL license.
Technical news
- Discussion is open regarding a proposed global policy regarding third-party resources. Third-party resources are computer resources that reside outside of Wikimedia production websites.
Arbitration
- Two arbitration cases are currently open. Proposed decisions are expected 5 July 2023 for the Scottywong case and 9 July 2023 for the AlisonW case.
Parsing AQI readings edit
Hi there. Just a reminder if you can find some resources. Thank you. 68.174.155.22 (talk) 01:35, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'm so sorry, OP: I saw this message yesterday, but I had/have so many balls in the air off project (and a few here too, for that matter, albeit of a much smaller variety), that I totally spaced. Hang tight--will compile it as soon as I can: some of it comes off of other devices, so some manual entry involved. :) SnowRise let's rap 02:41, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- Hey IP, are you still there? Let's have a talk about where you're at and what you most want to understand about the AQI sampling and/or what data you want access to quickly. For a starter, these links may be of use to you: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]. However, note that regional resources are in some respects actually where the most fine-grain resources and robust reporting data are to be found, so if you do not mind disclosing your locality I'll probably be able to direct you to a monitor reporting schema that is more precise and frequently updated, with larger historical data sets. SnowRise let's rap 14:44, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment edit
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Talk page banning query edit
Hi Snow Rise. Thanks again for your impartial and sound comments at ANI; I'm taking the feedback on board and I hope the other editor is too. You asked if I was aware that I have it in my discretion to ban people from commenting on my talk page? Well, no, I was not aware of that. I'd really like the ANI discussion to be closed, so rather than asking you a question there and keeping the thread open, I thought I'd do it here instead. Just to clarify, are you just referring to WP:GOAWAY? As in telling someone to stop commenting and then hoping they respect your wishes? Or did you mean I could manually revert every unwanted addition if I wanted to? Or is there an actual way to ban people? Thanks in advance. Damien Linnane (talk) 09:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oh, hi again Damien Linnane. You're most welcome: I'm very happy to be of help and happier still that you both could walk away from the discussion feeling matters had been at least somewhat addressed to you satisfaction. To answer your inquiry: yes, you are permitted to ask another user to leave your talk page in peace, and with very limited exceptions (involving formal notices of blocks and such) any user is expected to honour that request. If they persistently do not, most admins would almost certainly be willing the show them the door with the threat of a block. The expectation though is that you use this right with discretion, since doing so willy-nilly can be problematic in terms of making you an accessible member of the community. The relevant policy page section is WP:USERTALKSTOP. You are also permitted to remove any content to your user/user talk added by another editor (again, with the exception of certain kinds of notices, and in the hope you don't do so arbitrarily). The relevant policy language for that is at WP:REMOVE. Thanks for being open to feedback in the discussion: I hope the next time we cross paths on the project is under less stressful circumstances for you! SnowRise let's rap 14:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
Got to get off my hands on that edit
Hey Thebiguglyalien: we really do need to finally get around to that independent Advicepages policy page proposal, don't we? Let's make a plan to at least start detailed discussion and drafting by the end of August? SnowRise let's rap 21:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- It would be great if a better local vs community consensus distinction was made in policy. I suspect writing the draft is the easy part though. The difficulty in clarifying consensus (which this is supposed to solve) will likely make it equally difficult to get everyone to agree on a clarification. I still have one possible approach in my sandbox history, but I'm not particularly attached to it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'll take a very rough crack at putting forward how I see the issue, having watched the original drama that lead to to rule and (because I do more RfC than any other single thing here, seen a thousand and one discussions since on WikiProject talk pages where it seems that most participant editors were unaware of the principle. That's going to be the major, major hurdle. It's unambigously policy, broader community consensus and some arbcom rulings both. But it is so poorly understood that many people here will perceive that it is a novel proposal, not a proposal to move the policy language to it's own space, if we don't frame this just perfectly. There's actually a danger here that this could provoke a reaction from major WikiProject participants who haven't thought the issues with conflicting standards between WikiProjects (and all of this taking place outside of normal CONLEVEL procedures) all of the way through, such that they realize that this project literally can't function without the AdvicePages principle. Hence why ArbCom codified it and it got enshrined as policy (but in a slightly weird place).
- So here's the status quo right now. The majority of these RfCs, I am the first person to point this out (I can actually count one hand I think the number of times someone else got to it first), but when you do point it out, people get it and accept it pretty much without exception, because the issue and wording of AdvicePages is pretty clear. It helps that I always add "Look, if every major contributor to the relevant article(s) is contributing to this discussion and agrees to abide by the consensus, then you might well be able to enforce this. But the point is, you can't just point back to this discussion if someone outside this clique does raise the issue on an individual talk page: policy is clear that in every such occasion, you must have a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS take place on that article's talk page. It doesn't matter that you decided on a standard approach to multiple articles on the WikiProject: that's not how WP:CONLEVEL works. If you can live with that potential wasted energy if even one outside editor decides to rain on the walled garden parade, go at it. Just be careful going any further to try to enforce that consensus directly, as that will get you blocked."
- This might make a lot of sense to even the majority of committed WikiProject adherents, but you can bet dollars to doughnuts some are going to rebel hard and insist this is some massive new overreach of novel policy. Mark my words. Our job is to manage that number with as clear, rational and comprehensive a guideline as we can, plus a compelling and equally thorough proposal prompt/argument advocating for the move. We have to make this airtight or we might create a cascade effects of the most reactionary walled garden WikiProject members creating a hardened narrative around it and newer editors following their leads, actually making things significantly worse than the present (when at least people accept the existing policy when you link them to it. It is essential we demonstrate what inevitably happens without this principle, and what in fact did happen in the past before ArbCom and the community at large stepped in. Or else it's better that we don't try at all, if you follow my meaning.
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Re: Nerd fight edit
Now if you'll all excuse me, I think I'll watch an episode of TNG before I turn in
Just started getting into Star Trek: Strange New Worlds which is quite good. Of course, a lot of the minor but important backstory occurs in Discovery, so it helps to watch all four seasons of that first. It's kind of sad that DSC got hammered by fans, but it's not as bad as people think it is. My only huge criticism was the spore drive, which is just absurd, but a token homage to Paul Stamets. I got a chance to talk to the writers before they launched it and I know they care, but the spore drive concept should never have made it into the show, IMO. Other than that, I enjoyed DSC and I'm loving SNW in a big way. The made a huge effort to return to the roots of Trek with this one. Viriditas (talk) 08:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
- Well, I've watched the first two series of Discovery and most of the first series of Strange New Worlds. My impressions have been mixed:
- I remained cautiously optimistic about Discovery through the first series, though there were moments that I and a friend would watch it that we found ourselves "MST3K-ing" it, if you follow my meaning. The second series, my interest started to slip: I found it all terribly predictable on the whole, down to almost every plot "twist" in the back-half of the series being fully telegraphed in the first few episodes, for anyone familiar with the tropes of contemporary TV writing in the area of speculative fiction. The pacing was also just a huge issue for me: every single episode needed to have everything happening all at once at...well, warp speed, to use the obvious turn of phrase! For me, the highlight was definitely the appearance of the hitherto unmentioned army of armed EVE drones that popped out of Discovery to defend it in the climactic battle. Though it was mostly a feeling of "Sure, this might as well happen, why not!", that I'm not sure reflects well on the second series..
- I did think that the second series ended in a very interesting place, and I was curious to see where they might run with a largely unexplored area for the franchise (the post 24th-century galaxy). But I only made it through the first episode. The writing, acting, and direction choices in that episode were so off-putting I put the show down and have yet to come back to it. It was as if the creative team were trying to recreate the frenetic energy of Run Lola, Run, fused with Star Trek, and not really doing much credit to either part of the recipe. And the general tedious effort to tie it together with the typical "quipiness" of action sci-fi shows in the post-MCU industry wasn't doing it any favours either. I also didn't get the sense that I was going to very much like what they had decided to do with the narrative of the future Federation. But admittedly, I never checked up on what was said about the show thereafter, and could probably stand to give it another try.
- Strange New Worlds might the closest thing to the thematics of the earliest Star Trek shows among the newest raft of shows, which I generally consider a good thing. For my money, everything from Voyager to the TNG movies to the Abrams movies to the recent sequence of contemporary shows have all failed to capture the humanistic element that made TNG and DS9 (and to a large extent, TOS before them / to a lesser extent, Enterprise after) so compelling in that somewhat obvious but still subtly crafted morality play kind of way. Strange New Worlds brings some of that magic back into the foreground, though I will say it still has rather a heavy reliance that is typical of all the new Star Trek shows on trying to appear cleverdick at every opportunity, relying heavily on action, and trying to force a cinematic tone into every episode. The characters are also a little broadly drawn for my money, and the constantly high stakes drama often contrived.
- And the less said about Picard the better: maybe the single biggest waste of potential of any follow-up project/product in the entire genre. And not just the critically-panned second series (which I only watched small excerpts of) or the the third series with it's mixed reception. I found even the first (and realtively well received) season to be so poorly written, meandering, and relentlessly paint-by-numbers (and yet somehow also filled with inexplicable creative choices) that it was basically unwatchable. And yet watch I did, as perhaps the most well-crafted character of 20th century television was leveraged into a campy deconstruction made to shuffle through an improbable and bewildering narrative almost completely devoid of charm or meaning or any recognizable connection to what came before. What a terrible shame.
- So that's my impression of where the franchise is right now. SNW has some potential, but I'm not convinced, with the current creative stewardship of the franchise as a whole, that it won't fall into relying on it's more superficial elements more than the more compelling explorative fare that makes for truly good science fiction. I think the people in charge are largely blind to what made the earliest shows in the series what they were (or else they are actively looking to do something that moves expressly in a different direction, as is their prerogative, at the end of the day). TOS, TNG, and DS9 all owe more to the great writers of the theatre than they do to Star Wars and the successful sci-fi movie action blockbusters. Episodes of those shows were tele-plays in the deepest sense. Their magic was in their dialogue and the graceful exploration of human universals. To the extent they had predecessors in television, it was the sci-fi anthologies, not the action adventures.
- Eh, I'm ranting. I guess I just don't want to be seen as aging reactionary dismissing the new stuff merely by virtue of it not being perfect and completely aligned with my expectations. I've given it all a chance. I really want it to work, and I'm prepared to take the bad with the good when it does (as with Enterprise, parts of the Abrams movies, and occasional good or even great episodes of 'Discovery and SNW). The product just isn't that good on the whole in my opinion. The writing is often clumsy and tin-earred, it has the fingerprints of studio notes all over it, often as not, it can be very obvious and cumbersome in its pandering (speaking to social issues with metaphor is one thing the franchise has always done, and often done well, but this is a different animal in my opinion, being more about aping the values of it's audience than in posing challenging questions to expand the viewer's horizons), and often becomes a confusing pastiche of priorities: a product with an identity crisis formed from trying to pull the story in too many different directions at once.
- All of which is to say...I think I'll stick with the classics. I'll probably check in with Pike and crew now and again, and I should probably give the second half of Discovery a fair shake at some point. But my expectations are exceedingly low after all that has come between "What We Left Behind" and now. SnowRise let's rap 01:41, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think that most people are inflexible, unyielding, and resistant to change. Familiarity breeds habits which become preferences and then solidify into unwavering opinions. It happens. It takes some active effort to resist it, to fight against it, and to embrace the new, the different, the nontraditional, and ultimately, the profane. Every fiber in our being tells us not to, to stay away, to move towards what is comfortable, agreeable, and has the feeling of home. So where am I going with this? Let me dig deeper for an apt analogy. Just as we have come to accept that it isn't about nature versus nurture, but rather nature and nurture, so too is it not about old Trek versus new Trek but rather old Trek and new Trek. I think you've momentarily forgotten this because old Trek holds so many good memories. Who can forget the chills going up your spine in 1989 when "The Measure of a Man" first aired? Or a decade later when DS9 took Trek where it never went before in 1998 with "In the Pale Moonlight"? I can still remember the electricity in the room. And yet, and yet, you would have us leave it there! No, my friend, no, Voyager took us to another place, as much as you deny it. "Year of Hell" gave us all the time travel plot we wanted. Kurtwood Smith's performance as the mad scientist was second to none. "Living Witness" is a tour de force performance by Robert Picardo that is essential must-see Trek. And "Muse" was a fun, light-hearted homage to the theatrical influences you discuss above. "Author, Author" left many of us with tears in 2001. And it is only one of many incredible episodes (and arcs) in the series. I can say the same thing about Enterprise and Discovery, but you will no doubt give me the same, Aristophanic complaint! Please, do not cut yourself off from the new and the different. The same complaints you wage against new Trek can be made against the old; please realize this. You say that new Trek is "more about aping the values of it's audience than in posing challenging questions to expand the viewer's horizons", but be honest, is that really true? Of course not! Old Trek did the very thing! Old and new Trek are merely reflections of their audience, each unique to their time and place at a particular point in time. DSC is the version Gen X came up with, for better or for worse. Viriditas (talk) 08:32, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, but you see, this is just the kind of reductivist argument I was hoping to head off. It's become the very popular and easy thing to do these days to simply imply "Oh, well every generation thinks that about what comes next." as a means of deflecting criticism away from contemporary works. But here's the complicated truth: not all writer's rooms are created equal, and some of this stuff may very well just be crap. I have no sacred cows when it comes to what is essentially a type of brand loyalty when one assumes as franchise can do no wrong and can't decline in quality.
- Or better put, vary in quality. Because neither is this a simple "old vs. new" situation. TOS was inspirational for it's time, but it was TNG that brought depth to the formula, and DS9 that broke the mold on serialized storytelling of speculative fiction. And Voyager is closer to the "old guard" shows than the new, in terms of timing and tone. But it is a truly terrible show my friend: I'm sorry, it just is. Tin-earred dialogue, nonsensical concepts, predicated in inane technobabble to a degree to make the even the series 1 TNG writers blush, flat characters, flatter acting, no consistency, or continuity or meaning to anything. The concept is brilliant: it really had potential to push the line that DS9 started with nudging the franchise towards some realism and moral depth. That show should have been about a desperate flight through one hostile territory after another, resources dwindling, ethical grey areas toyed with and moral event horizons occasionally crossed, all while two crews that are pragmatically and philosophically opposed to the point where trust is difficult and even mutual ability to go on together in doubt, must contend with one-another.
- What did we get instead? A warmed over rehash of TNG, but with one-tenth the talent evident in the writing. Infinite resources all the time, except when something has to be arbitrarily suddenly scarce in order to be the inciting incident for a planet- or space-anomaly-of-the-week plot. And the status quo ante button hit at the end of every episode for the most part. I remember the "Year of Hell" as being not much better than the rest, but at least it hinted at what that show could have been in the hands of less hackey writers. Truly almost unwatchable, but watch 95% of it I did watch, because I still had hints of free time in the 90s, accordantly much lower standards, and there was such a dearth of even half-competent shows in the genre at the time. But season after season it was an uninspired hot mess of a show by comparison to the two that preceded it. You can call me a snob or an aging yester-yearer, but I'll go to my (apparently quite near? ;) grave sticking to that assessment. Yes Robert Picardo brings some much needed chops to a handful of decent episodes, but they are few and far between. The only good thing that came out of Voyager is that they crapped the bed so badly, Ronald Moore left the fold in frustration to go do essentially the same concept, only...you know, good, and very arguably the best science fiction show of the last thirty was the result.
- And it's even more complicated, the chronology. Because half the TOS movies were mediocre, almost all the TNG movies were, and Enterprise came after Voyager but was arguably at least a little bit better and a little bit closer to emulating the TNG formula successfully. Meanwhile the last Abrams movie is actually kind of good? Discovery started strong and then went off the rails, Picard had everything going for it theoretically, and yet started bad, somehow got much worse and then kind of plateaued. Strange New Worlds might actually be more good than bad, but it's principle cast do tend to make me roll my eyes in how broadly drawn they are. It's not a "good --> bad" arrow of time (pun intended) by any stretch of the imagination. The quality rises and falls. But it's not all great and I'm telling you, subjective assessment or no, you can't convince me that said quality didn't peak with two back-to-back entries in particular. And yes, I also do genuinely believe there is a qualitative difference between how those two shows handled their morality plays compared to more recent entries. TNG and DS9 could be downright transgressive for their time, format, and place on the airwaves. The new shows play it much safer, relative to where the boundaries are today.
- No "New Trek" doesn't suck and "Old Trek" doesn't rule. Rather, the vast majority of it has landed somewhere between silly and awful, but with periods of true genius when the stars aligned with certain talented groups of people. But the last truly great constellation in that sense was a while ago. Sorry my friend, but this analysis is not 'inflexible' but rather only logical. ;) SnowRise let's rap 12:39, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- I wasn't deflecting criticism; in fact, I didn't even bother to address the criticism because the same criticism can be levied at TOS and their films. If you're at all familiar with the history of television and film (and I can only assume that you are), then you know that this isn't a reductionist argument at all, it's a simple fact that audience tastes change over time, and with it, the structure and presentation of drama. You couldn't make a film like Star Trek: The Motion Picture because there's very little action driving the film. The space dock sequence is notorious as a sleep aid for insomniacs (particularly the 12 hour looped version on YouTube). Recently, I was raving about Three-Body, the Chinese television production of the 2008 novel. It's great because it doesn't use or rely on the modern science fiction action adventure formula, and frames the entire story instead as slow, methodical detective fiction. It works for me, and I thought it was the best science fiction show I've seen in decades, but the majority of the US public wouldn't spend a minute on it because they have different tastes.
- The beauty of what someone like Tarantino did with Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, and Jackie Brown, is he went back in time decades or more, borrowed heavily from old stories and dramatic structures that simply could no longer connect with modern audiences, and made them new again. Say what you want about Tarantino and his weird foot fetish and whatever, but to do that, to accomplish that, to take what is old and make it new again, that is extremely difficult, and frankly, rare to pull off. New Trek isn't able to do what you want it to do, so it has to appeal to new ways of doing things, and that's what you're really upset about. And hey, I get it, I've had this argument a hundred times, that's why I titled it "Nerd fight". Nobody is right or wrong here, it's just different ways of seeing the same story. And I'm not going to get into Battlestar Galactica at all, as it had plenty of crappy episodes that I could talk about from here to the end of time. But let's take your argument further: Does GoT suck in total because they couldn't pull off the last season? I came to DSC with an open mind, but I wanted to hate it. And once I realized that, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Viriditas (talk) 13:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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Administrators' newsletter – August 2023 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2023).
Administrator changes
Interface administrator changes
Technical news
- The tag filter on Special:NewPages and revision history pages can now be inverted. This allows hiding edits made by automated tools. (T334338)
- Special:BlockedExternalDomains is a new tool that allows easier blocking of plain domains (and their subdomains). This is more easily searchable and is faster for the software to use than the existing MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. It does not support regex (for complex cases), URL path-matching, or the MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist. (T337431)
Arbitration
- The arbitration cases named Scottywong and AlisonW closed 10 July and 16 July respectively.
- The SmallCat dispute arbitration case is in the workshop phase.
Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment edit
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Chess notation edit
Hi, may I suggest you read the article Algebraic notation (chess) for your game with User:Theleekycauldron? Main things to note are that in standard algebraic notation you don't give the "from" square", only the "to" square. Instead just give the initial letter of the piece. Also moves are numbered in pairs. So it's 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6, not 1.e4 2.e5 3.Nf3 4.Nc6. Anyway all those details are in the article, which if I say so myself is looking close to GA status. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 01:57, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- Hey, MaxBrowne2: sorry, I missed this in the mix initially! To be perfectly honest with you, after the first couple of edits I thought I was conforming with algebraic notation, as best I could recall--but I guess my recollection of the format is even rustier than my gameplay--and neither likely to impress, I fear! I'll review the article and do my best to try to keep my entries consistent from here, but please feel free to make corrections directly without concern for offending me, should you see any errors and be so inclined! SnowRise let's rap 20:27, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
Spelling enquiry edit
Your spelling corrections were welcome, but one was unnecessary. (I did have to double-check though.) Bazza (talk) 08:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- Bazza 7 Oh, how peculiar! I'm usually very good of those UK/US variant spellings because of my background, but I was pretty sure about that one! (And so was my supposedly dual-dictionary spellchecker!). Thanks for letting me know: that is very much appreciated, even if it is a little bit of egg on my face! I'll go change it back unless you got to it already. SnowRise let's rap 13:48, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- No need to change back: us English English speakers can't make up our mind about whether it's "enquiry" or "inquiry", so seem to put up with both. So no egg on your face. The greater joy of Wikipedia is these little things lurking within the bigger picture. Regards, Bazza (talk) 13:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm getting to be the poster child for idiosyncrasies: having background (and lived in) both the UK and US (and elsewhere in the commonwealth and anglophone worlds), having a formal background in linguistics, having worked in various professional (and volunteer! :) writing environments, and finally, being a part of the global English community online these days, same as most all of us, sometimes I find myself oscillating between various usages, and lately even mixing and matching certain spellings for certain phonemes between different words using the same sound! Good golly, you'd think over time I'd be settling into more stable usage, but it seems to be going in the opposite direction: sometimes I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth/fingers until it happens! And as you say, the ongoing old/new and regional variations just within UK usage isn't exactly making things any clearer!
- No need to change back: us English English speakers can't make up our mind about whether it's "enquiry" or "inquiry", so seem to put up with both. So no egg on your face. The greater joy of Wikipedia is these little things lurking within the bigger picture. Regards, Bazza (talk) 13:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- All that said, out of respect for the OP and LANGVAR (and not wanting to appear to be a needlessly over-prescriptive language maven), I have reverted the change to the section header. Maybe others will notice and be edified. SnowRise let's rap 14:32, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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Barnstar for you edit
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The Helping Hand Barnstar | |
| I was looking for a barnstar for editors who help with understanding others but I guess a helping hand is a good way to think of it. Springee (talk) 20:17, 28 August 2023 (UTC) |
Oh, thank you very much Springee! I've never received this one before, and I'm very flattered by the sentiment behind it. :) While you're here, I should take the opportunity to say that I appreciated your own comments in the same sequence of discussion--not just because I found them very well framed and worded, but also because there have been moments in the last couple of days when I've felt I was being perceived as a bugbear for people aligned along both of the general poles of this cluster of issues, so it was a good moment to hear someone say that they understood the distinction I was trying to make and appreciated the value of the third way perspective in this instance. I usually try not to be too nonplussed by feedback or the level of support I am enjoying, minute to minute, so long as I feel I am doing the right thing/backing the best way forward, but your first two comments in particular genuinely did have a little perk-me-up quality to them, so thank you for that. :) SnowRise let's rap 20:50, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
- If I knew that was the sort of reaction I was going to get every time I would be giving you a lot more barn stars :D
- I really do appreciate the way you were trying to thread the needle on that topic. Far too often it does feel like this is a zero sum game and people are either with or against us (which ever side "us" happens to be). Perhaps the worst part of that is when we fail to see the difference between someone who is trying to be fair to both sides vs someone who is trying to "win". I had really hesitated to respond to that discussion but I did so in large part because of your articulation that the issue is the behavior rather than the basic belief. Anyway, your comment was really appreciated and I hope we have more understandings in the future. Springee (talk) 01:18, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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Just an applogy edit
Hey SnowRise, I wanted to apologies as I just disagreed with you in both RfCs associated with the barn star above. I think we both saw similar facts but on balance fell to opposite sides of the "what to do about it" fence. Just wanted to let you know. -I hope you are having a great day! Springee (talk) 15:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- What!? Oh, the betrayal!! Heheh, no, I get it Springee! I was, afterall, the lone skeptic about the necessity for a sanction in that discussion there for quite a while myself. I've since been won over that it's preventative and necessary in light of the newest information, but it's certainly reasonable minds may vary territory. I still appreciate the cogency and articulation of your position. :)
- And I'm having...well, a sleep deprived day. But once I get some rest, I think I shall be having a very good one indeed. I've had my nose to the grindstone, burning the midnight oil on work and other obligations for weeks straight, but I'm about to have my first proper sequence of multiple contiguous days with little to nothing pressing to do (on the proper work front anyway) in...well, some fair few months anyway! I don't know if my brain is well adapted to deal with the world under such terms anymore at this point, but if my household will allow it, I think I might start with a nap! :D I'm rambling--have a good day yourself, Spring-G! SnowRise let's rap 18:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
Cherished edit
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| my story today |
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Thank you for the precious recognition you offered me! I replied in short there, including that its title and exuberance reminded me of this cherished cherry by a user I miss. - As for Berit Lindholm: I am proud that I was able, with much help from someone who knows Swedish, to improve her article from a stub to GA, which - prompted by the reviewer - even includes personality on top of performance. I wish the one sentence on the Main page represented some of that. Instead, we had a poor sentence mentioning "damn", possibly intended to attract, in something that her former director (who died in a tragic accident) "is said to have called her" - we don't know, that is, all based on rumor, and some probably lost in translation from Swedish. If it wasn't for the good image, I would have protested. Why this hook and not any of my suggestions? Because the present DYK team believes that opera is not interesting to our "broad audience". Quite systematically so, which made me go on strike when 2023 came, one of two reasons to call it a year of resilience. I had hoped that for a woman like her - not a beginning singer of our local opera but one who achieved world fame - they would understand, but no. I hope that 10,000 of the 13k+ who looked only saw the image and not the poor "hook", but what if people at her funeral saw it? I also resent that the belittling sentence is now forever on top of her talk and in the archive. I normally copy the hook to the project archive but not for that one. Just to clarify a bit why it made me so silent, - I called it unproud ;) -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:20, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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Administrators' newsletter – September 2023 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2023).
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Guideline and policy news
- Following an RfC, TFAs will be automatically semi-protected the day before it is on the main page and through the day after.
- A discussion at WP:VPP about revision deletion and oversight for dead names found that
[s]ysops can choose to use revdel if, in their view, it's the right tool for this situation, and they need not default to oversight. But oversight could well be right where there's a particularly high risk to the person. Use your judgment
.
Technical news
- Special:Contributions now shows the user's local edit count and the account's creation date. (T324166)
Arbitration
- The SmallCat dispute case has closed. As part of the final decision, editors participating in XfD have been reminded to be careful about forming
local consensus which may or may not reflect the broader community consensus
. Regular closers of XfD forums were also encouraged tonote when broader community discussion, or changes to policies and guidelines, would be helpful
.
Miscellaneous
- Tech tip: The "Browse history interactively" banner shown at the top of Special:Diff can be used to easily look through a history, assemble composite diffs, or find out what archive something wound up in.
Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment edit
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New page patrol October 2023 Backlog drive edit
| New Page Patrol | October 2023 Backlog Drive |  |
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
September music edit
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| my story today |
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Our festival's last concert was most moving and inspiring, - also the story of Walter Arlen, - today I'm proud that I survived the decision in WP:ARBINFOBOX for 10 years, standing and singing -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Today's story is about a great pianist with an unusual career, taking off when he was 50. It's the wedding anniversary of Clara and Robert Schumann, but I was too late with our gift. Just for fun: when do you think did Mrs. and Mr. Schumann get their infoboxes, and by whom? (The answer can be found here, but please think first.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Today I remember Raymond Arritt, who still helps me, five years after he died, per what he said in my darkest time on Wikipedia (placed in my edit-notice as a reminder), and by teh rulez. - Latest pics from a weekend in Berlin (one more day to come). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
My story today is The Company of Heaven ("company" with a double meaning, but angelic company in the end). - Pictures of the one more day yes, but no others yet, it's a week with concert or opera almost every night! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment edit
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New pages patrol newsletter edit
Hello Snow Rise,
Backlog update: At the time of this message, there are 11,300 articles and 15,600 redirects awaiting review. This is the highest backlog in a long time. Please help out by doing additional reviews!
October backlog elimination drive: A one-month backlog drive for October will start in one week! Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled. Articles will earn 4x as many points compared to redirects. You can sign up here.
PageTriage code upgrades: Upgrades to the PageTriage code, initiated by the NPP open letter in 2022 and actioned by the WMF Moderator Tools Team in 2023, are ongoing. More information can be found here. As part of this work, the Special:NewPagesFeed now has a new version in beta! The update leaves the NewPagesFeed appearance and function mostly identical to the old one, but updates the underlying code, making it easier to maintain and helping make sure the extension is not decommissioned due to maintenance issues in the future. You can try out the new Special:NewPagesFeed here - it will replace the current version soon.
Notability tip: Professors can meet WP:PROF #1 by having their academic papers be widely cited by their peers. When reviewing professor articles, it is a good idea to find their Google Scholar or Scopus profile and take a look at their h-index and number of citations. As a very rough rule of thumb, for most fields, articles on people with a h-index of twenty or more, a first-authored paper with more than a thousand citations, or multiple papers each with more than a hundred citations are likely to be kept at AfD.
Reviewing tip: If you would like like a second opinion on your reviews or simply want another new page reviewer by your side when patrolling, we recommend pair reviewing! This is where two reviewers use Discord voice chat and screen sharing to communicate with each other while reviewing the same article simultaneously. This is a great way to learn and transfer knowledge.
Reminders:
- You can access live chat with patrollers on the New Page Patrol Discord.
- Consider adding the project discussion page to your watchlist.
- To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment edit
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Administrators' newsletter – September 2023 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2023).
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Guideline and policy news
- An RfC is open regarding amending the paid-contribution disclosure policy to add the following text:
Any administrator soliciting clients for paid Wikipedia-related consulting or advising services not covered by other paid-contribution rules must disclose all clients on their userpage.
Technical news
- Administrators can now choose to add the user's user page to their watchlist when changing the usergroups for a user. This works both via Special:UserRights and via the API. (T272294)
Arbitration
Miscellaneous
- The 2023 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process has concluded with the appointment of one new CheckUser.
- Self-nominations for the electoral commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections opens on 2 October and closes on 8 October.
October music edit
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| my story today |
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My story today is sad but great. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Today, it's a place that inspired me, musings if you have time. My corner for memory and music has today a juxtaposition of what our local church choirs offer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 20 October 2023 (UTC) A few more pics, and see my talk for what we sang today (I'm the woman in red), and what Tabea Zimmermann played (today's story on her birthday): I heard it, and it's on YouTube. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:51, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
More pics, and today's story is on a birthday, and the real DYK was already on that birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:37, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
Towards the end of the month, I thought of Brian Bouldton, and his ways to compromise, - with musings about peace there, - feel free to join. Hevenu shalom aleichem. Today is Reformation Day, and I believe that reformation is a work in progress. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:54, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
Courtesy edit
Just to make sure you see this ping; thanks for any advice you can add. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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A wikiheart for you! edit
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Wikiheart |
| Your long post on Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war perfectly sums up why the clip does not at all merit inclusion in our encyclopedia. Thanks for sharing the great insight among the newer (and some more experienced) editors. Awesome Aasim 03:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC) |
- Well thank you very much, Aasim: that's very kind of you--though I'm sure somebody else would have been along to say much the same before long if I hadn't. In truth, I understand why some editors do not more intuitively familiar with some of the distinctions I emphasized: WP:NOTCENSORED gets much more prominently emphasized in our informal/organic onboarding process than do the many counterbalancing principles which limit it's more general language. So its understandable that some initially get an impression of the policy as a much more absolute / less nuanced principle than it actually is under community consensus.
- Still, the risks of harm from that video staying up are so substantial that I hope some admin decides to proactively remove it under one of the prongs of policy it currently violates, be it WP:OM, WP:BLP, image use policies, WP:NFC, WP:V, WP:DUE, or just a general invocation of administrative prerogative of the substantial potential for harm. But we'll see. I don't have much doubt it's coming down soon, but every extra minute sooner that it gets done would be significantly for the better, imo. SnowRise let's rap 03:54, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- The actual image is hosted on Commons. Right now the most Wikipedia can do is put it on the bad image list pending deletion discussion on Commons. This is one of these cases that WP:IAR certainly applies: the risk of emotional harm that is caused with leaving that video up far outweighs the desire to include the material. As I said bluntly on the Commons deletion discussion, we are not LiveLeak or any other shock site. Awesome Aasim 04:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm going to try to find time to comment at the commons discussion in a bit myself. But I do think we could revdel the edit at least. At a minimum the video should not be live now. But edit warring over it will only delay the ultimate resolution further. Perhaps I'll appeal to the editor who re-instated it, insofar as they did technically violate BRD and seem to accept now that the sourcing is insufficient, if nothing else. SnowRise let's rap 04:17, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- The actual image is hosted on Commons. Right now the most Wikipedia can do is put it on the bad image list pending deletion discussion on Commons. This is one of these cases that WP:IAR certainly applies: the risk of emotional harm that is caused with leaving that video up far outweighs the desire to include the material. As I said bluntly on the Commons deletion discussion, we are not LiveLeak or any other shock site. Awesome Aasim 04:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment edit
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November Articles for creation backlog drive edit
Hello Snow Rise:
WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.
You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.
Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.
November music edit
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| story · music |
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Hevenu shalom aleichem is my story today. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
In case you have some time: today I have three items on the Main page, almost too much of a good thing! Bach's amazing cantata with the unusual scale, first performed 300 years ago OTD, the nun for the prostitutes, and Schumann's wedding gift for Clara. Also first day of vacation pics uploaded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Administrators' newsletter – November 2023 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2023).
Administrator changes
Interface administrator changes
Guideline and policy news
Technical news
- The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
- There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal is requested.
Arbitration
- Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections.
- Xaosflux, RoySmith and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee Elections. BusterD is the reserve commissioner.
- Following a motion, the contentious topic designation of Prem Rawat has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
- Following several motions, multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the Editor conduct in e-cigs articles, Liancourt Rocks, Longevity, Medicine, September 11 conspiracy theories, and Shakespeare authorship question cases.
- Following a motion, remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the Macedonia 2 case have been rescinded.
- Following a motion, remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the The Troubles case has been amended.
- An arbitration case named Industrial agriculture has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.
Miscellaneous
- The Articles for Creation backlog drive is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in the Gadgets settings. Sign up here to participate!
Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment edit
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment edit
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ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message edit
Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:40, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
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Administrators' newsletter – December 2023 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2023).
Administrator changes
Guideline and policy news
- Following a talk page discussion, the Administrators' accountability policy has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have notifications (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.
Arbitration
- Following a motion, the Extended Confirmed Restriction has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
- The Arbitration Committee has announced a call for Checkusers and Oversighters, stating that it will currently be accepting applications for CheckUser and/or Oversight permissions at any point in the year.
- Eligible users are invited to vote on candidates for the Arbitration Committee until 23:59 December 11, 2023 (UTC). Candidate statements can be seen here.
Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment edit
Your feedback is requested at Wikipedia:Requests for coment/Names of deceased trans people on a "Wikipedia policies and guidelines" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment edit
Your feedback is requested at Talk:Bangladesh genocide on a "History and geography" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Just fyi edit
I saw your comment at the RfA, where you said very kindly that you shared some of my concerns. I really, really, really don't want to reopen a discussion of my own making that ought to remain closed, but... just so you know, your reasons and my reasons are different. I know that's annoyingly vague, and I'm sincerely sorry not to be more forthcoming, but at least I'd like not to leave a misunderstanding. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:43, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks Trypt. Whatever the cause for your reticence to elaborate, I'm sure it's a good reason. Speaking for myself, I'm leaning in to the feedback provided by others in the discussion and assuming that in fact Clovermoss will make a positive addition to the admin corps. It's just that, being as my own minute experience with her left me with some (admittedly small and probably isolated) concerns, I thought the best thing I could contribute to the discussion was not an !vote for or against, but an exhortation to the candidate to approach similar matters with an extra bit of caution as an administrator, as she seems likely to soon be. I hope she takes it in the spirit it was intended; I debated saying nothing, but on reflection felt this was the right feedback to provide from my very, very narrow window of experience with her, as a member of the community. SnowRise let's rap 20:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive edit
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
December greetings edit
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| December: story · music · places |
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Today, I have a special story to tell, of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. - I wish you a good festive season and a peaceful New Year! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:56, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Good call at ANI re 3D images edit
I was reading the account first at this UTP discussion which linked the ANI one which you closed (diff) and just wanted to commend you on the closure statement. I only regret that I couldn't have weighed in to give even more support to that view before it closed, but I can see the argument for disposing of it quickly and forthrightly to nip any censorship-freedom irrelevancies in the bud before they got started, so in the end I think the timing was good, also. Good call all around; thanks for what you do. Mathglot (talk) 04:18, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, Mathglot--that is very kind of you to say, and appreciated. My thinking was that while there may be a meaningful conversation to be had around the OP's media contributions, irrespective of whether they were ultimately used, it just wasn't one for ANI, where two users had been reported and, under the circumstances (clear cut facts presented by the OP themselves, uniform response from a handful of editors) deserved to have a quick clearing of the matter. I suspect the OP is operating generally in good faith, but may not as yet have a veteran's grasp of what constitutes a content vs. a behavioural matter. Now on the one hand, you can certainly see their decision to ask as a display of goodfaith: how are they supposed to know, unless they ask, afterall? However, the specifics of the request showed not only a misunderstanding of the remit of ANI, but that they are still getting up to speed on some basic discussion/consensus procedure. So, the matter being a content dispute, and the feedback increasingly reflecting this (being generally well-intentioned and cogent, but much of it simply misplaced in terms of fora/namespace), I thought it made sense to redirect the OP. If possible, I prefer that any party (vague or specific) to any matter I close go away feeling heard, so I tried to give them the tools to make the case they want to make in a better way, in a more appropriate place. Hopefully they now see the distinction that this is a content issue, and now have the right policies to base their arguments for their media around. I don't know that they have a particularly strong chance, but at least they will be making their case in the right space, and will get something of a community verdict on their first few outings in this area, before they decide whether to dedicate more time to such content. So, all factors considered, I felt it was a fairly straightforward call. I'm actually a skeptic of non-admin closures at ANI; I prefer a mop's stamp or to just let the matter die a natural death, so to speak, unless the matter is extremely straight-forward--meaning not just that the policy issues are plain and responses generally uniform, but also that a closure has clear benefits over the matter being held open. Since I sometimes permit myself a little twinge of annoyance when a lesser standard is employed than my own unseen and self-designated threshold, in a non-mop closure at ANI, I figure the least I can do is hold myself to the same test. ;) So, it's nice to get positive feedback! Only issue is, you reminded me that I forgot to {{nac}} the close (not required, but good pro forma behaviour, per the above), and now it's too late--drat! SnowRise let's rap 14:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment edit
Your feedback is requested at Talk:Taiwan People's Party. about “Is the Taiwan People's Party appropriately characterized as populist?(RfC)” Thank you for helping out! 星枢 (talk) 15:36, 31 December 2023 (UTC)