Robertect

Please don't disturb archived talk pages. Johnleemk | Talk 10:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought that was the current section, I have corrected the error. Thanks (Robertect 10:58, 10 December 2005 (UTC))

Hi Robert, I will in the next two weeks step by step go through your points. But please be patient with me, because I lack enough time at the moment. By the way Dagom Rinpoche is my abbot and I know also Gangchen Rinpoche and also visited Trijang Chogtrul Rinpoche at Rabten Institute and met Gonsar Rinpoche there. I think we will have a quite interesting discussion, because all this is related to Shugden and many contradictionary stuff... but I will also be careful not to say things out of a bad motivation. So I will take time.

Just I recognised that you want to stop the discussion. Ok for me it is the same. But if you're really interested in the points we can email or better phone. On the other hand the discussion can have a great benefit or we can create bad Karma. I read only some points of your contributions until now and recognised that I have to take time to answer them properly and deeply. So we can do how you like. Perhaps I will answer however for the readers benefit, but as said before: I'll take time for that, best whishes, Kt66 01:16, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

NKT

Hi Robert, I think you should first get some idea on Wikipedia. Answer just on my discussionsite, like I do on yours now. I moved your message to my disc. board. Please read some indroduction articles on wiki. yours Kt66 13:15, 12 December 2005 (UTC) PS Out of time problems I would prefer to phone to discuss the points you're interested in rather then emailing. From which country are you? I'm from Germany.

NKT/ secterian views and the like

Hi Robert, I'm sorry it seems to me that the stuff now is quite worrieing you. I will not go on with my answers. Perhaps they led you in a conflict. This stuff isn't quite fine, I know myself. I loved NKT/GKG and what they said very much and believed what they said. To find out step by step other things is going deeply to heart. So please care for yourself, don't worry: what you experience is a part of your path, it will help you, I'm quite sure. Try to see any problem as a sign of the need to improve wisdom/understanding and compassion and be please open and unbiased. Much love, Kt66 21:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi Robert it's nice to talk with you. It is really fine to read your message. I think one of the main key for all goodness and problems is remembering the interdependence of things. With this the mind will be served in a good way. I just try this to remember, so thank you for your feedback regarding this point. The Gelug Tulku I mentioned (without name - to not misuse his name) emphazises this point of the interdependend origination very much. By this one is overcoming anger and the like and comes to a more broader perspective with more understanding than accusation. However, only sometimes I do rememeber this ;-)

Also thank you for your honesty and open/selfcitical approach. This I met never when speaking/discussing to a follower of NKT. I enjoy in that and hopefully this will not push your Ego ;-) but increase this fine quality of you.

I think I will not going on to answer. For me there is the danger to get to quickly involved and becoming fanatic. So I will stop. I think there are some points which can help all sides and perhaps there are some who not. But also this will depend upon many causes, like the capicity of the reader and the like... However, Thank you very much, really nice to met you Kt66 19:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the past massage. I didn't read the biografie of Malcom X - until now ;-) I think you recognised an underlying aspect of my personality. My way is to find out the "truth" even if people see and tell the opposite. I come from East Germany as you know ruled by a dictator ship and with no real freedom. What I could't accept I said it and of course I got problems. Allthough I thought in a naive communist way, when I recognised that the school authorities suppressed the free will of Christians I protested against it. Later me was taken away the microphone when I confronted as a member of the parliamant in my home region the mayor with his dissembling political statements which were completely the opposite of what the people were thinking and they forbid me to go on with speaking. After this I got problems with the secret service... - but however at all times there were also people who protected me, because they saw it came not from evil will but a kind of honesty to speak the "truth" as I understood it - and some naivity too ;-) However this is yet gone. What I cherish at your approach is your openess and honesty. I think these are real good qualities for the spiritual path. I enjoy in all your qualities and the qualities of your NKT friends and Geshe-las too, all the best and the fullfilling of all your spiritual wishes, yours Kt66 21:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

questions at the DS article

Hi Robert in the next days I will go through it, I have to check out some sources and have less time. My main reliance in that field is also Dr. Alexander Berzin, a Havard Doctor who can read Tibetan, Chinese, Sanskrit and more languages. He is a disciple of the past and the present Tsenshab Serkong Rinpoche, whoes Root Guru is also Trijang Rinpoche and who also practiced DS and gave it up after checking it out. Dr. Alexander Berzin is quite learned and knows the sources if I find no answers I will contact him. You can visit his website under www.berzinarchives.com there you find also a biografie on Tsenshab Serkong Rinpoche. I had the opportuity to meet his incarnation in Graz during the Kalachakra empowerment... Kt66 21:22, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

GKG expulsion section

Dear Robert. Perhaps you can come back to neutralize the expulsion section on Geshe Kelsang Gyatso? - see the board discussion there. That would be fine. Even if you don't know the backgrounds, you could nevertheless help as a provider of a neutral attitude. If you don't have time or feel not good to do that, ok. Thank you very much. Kt66 23:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Robertect. I couldn't really follow the last remarks at the disc.board. I agree: That HHDL hadn't the wish to follow the Kalama Sutra. He wished to stop the bad influence of that practice which he and others recognised. I added this passage on the Kalama Sutra because his Buddhist critics (especially NKT) always says: He has broken the commitments to his Guru (you know this is one of the heaviest misdeeds if this would be the case, and by this they accuse him to have made a huge mistake), but I think they are irritated on that subject and don't understand what they say on that and when this misdeed is really done (according to Tsongkhapa there are four needed attitudes to brake that samaya to the Guru! These are not known in NKT.), that's why I added, that his action is in accordance with the Buddhas Teachings. Also when you remark his tone wasn't modest against Pabongkha and Trijang Rinpoche I think you are irritaded on that. Did HH ever said about both Lamas, like GKG, they are "foolish", "are misleading people" are "ruthless dictators" and the like? I heard personally the last time in Swiss that he is very able to discriminate between this topic and their qualities and that he acknowledge their qualities and contribution to Buddhism too. He has not this dualistic "black and white" thinking. Did you know, that some of his Tantric Gurus pushed up monks and led them to violate fights? He had also to react on that in a proper way. However, I wish not to convince you. I just wanted to express my opinion, that I can not share your opinion that there is no difference between the accusations of GKG against HHDL and what HHDL said to stop the influence of that Shugden practice. My best wishes to you, Kt66 10:54, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kt, what you say is fine, we discussed this previously. The only thing I would emphasise is that Geshe Kelsang was reffering to the the Dalai Lama in his political capacity, not in his capacity as a Dharma teacher when he made these comments. For me this is also an important discrimination just as you refer to discriminating qualities. I suspect our views are closer than you think but its difficult to get to the nub of it. For example all the points you make about Guru reliance, I usually agree with, but then you conclude by saying something like "This is not taught by NKT" - and I have only studied NKT closely so I end up thinking, well, we heard these same teachings very differently, although now it sounds like you hear from your current teacchers something much more like what I hear in NKT, so I think this is good. NKT is quite big and there is a wide range of understanding and interpretation within it. When I hear about your experiences I am full of sympathy and sorrow, I think I would be not very different to you if I had those conditions. My old teacher was Ani-La Chowang at Heruka center and she was very clear about proper reliance and also she had good relations with many Buddhist traditions (including Tibetan) in London, and Geshe-la was very happy about this. With all my best wishes (Robertect 13:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC)).

Shugden

Hi Robert. Please be patient with me. Hopefully in the next week I can go on with the discussion. Take care, Kt66 00:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject

Greetings! If interested, please join WikiProject Tibetan Buddhism. I hope that it will assist us in ensuring articles are of high quality. Sylvain1972 17:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I have been following the points you have be making on the various NKT pages and find them very interesting. Could I possibly email you some questions? My address is p_m_kenny@hotmail.com . Thanks Patrick --82.42.2.30 13:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)--Patrick K 13:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

NPOV Brick

Dear Robert, I would appreciate your advice regarding the NPOV Brick I have requested on the NKT page - please see my comments on the talk page. Regards Excellentone 16:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Robert, this is just to let you know that the NKT article will be proposed for deletion on Monday by the administrator Amerique. Having been involved in editing this article you may want to take part in the 7-day-discussion that will follow the nomination. Thank you. Marpa 22:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

clean up

Hi Robertect, maybe you can leave your comment at the NKT talk page. Although it may not be easy to make a "clean up", I think the way user:Excellentone now took, making substential changes without discussing it, I can not agree with. What do you suggest? (Please see history.) I would suggest to ask for a mediation on this "clean up" process or a "neutral editor" to do this. If we follow mediation I think we should go step by step through the article and its passages. I can agree with the way you decided on suggesting a version and discuss it at the talk page. I agree to the "clean up" process as well. Thank you, Regards, --Kt66 15:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso article

Hi RE, maybe you can help improving the article of GKG, someones whished for and I feel not able to contribute much at that time. Please see the Talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kelsang_Gyatso#POV_.22One_of_the_strongest_tenants_of_Buddhism_is_to_never_forsake_your_teachers_teachings..22 thank you very much. Regards kt66

Substantial edits at the Dorje Shugden article

Dear editor I like to draw your attention to that specific article, Dorje Shugden, which was substantially changed by a group of three new editors, without any discussion on the talk page. Rather one of the new editor revealed: "Many of these changes were discussed between at least three of the editors." which must have happened outside of WP, because there is no discussion on the talk page or their WP-accounts. One of the new editors claimed: "You seem to be the only person who accepted this article as it was. If you check you will see that the changes made make this article more neutral and unbiased then it was before previous edits." If I check I see the article omitted different POV's, deleted verified passages, included passages from anonymous websites and turned the article to a more bias Pro-Shugden POV. I'd like to ask you to check that and to give your opinion or to collaborate if there is a need for improving the article, so that we can have an unbiased, neutral, well-informed article which fairly presents all POV's. Thank you very much, --Kt66 (talk) 19:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)