User talk:Raymondnivet/Archive 1

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Hello, Raymondnivet, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like Ophélie Bretnacher, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Off2riorob (talk) 18:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Ophélie Bretnacher

I have nominated Ophélie Bretnacher, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ophélie Bretnacher. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Off2riorob (talk) 18:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the message on my talk page -- please make your arguments against deletion in the deletion discussion.

Article

Hi, raymond, imo you are not really helping your case, the article was trimmed by an editor in an attempt to improve it and you again have reverted to the previous very messy version, I would have thought it better to have a trimmed version than none at all, but hey, that is only my opinion, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 18:14, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Likely the article will be deleted. Please understand the specualtion and connections to a different person that went missing is cluding the issue. Read the standards for article creation it might help just a bit. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 18:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello,

I do not understand why you are censoring regarding facts that are proven and documented, in particular the disappearance of Eva Rhodes in Budapest, at the same time as that of Ophelia Bretnacher.

Know that everything I write is always fully documented.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/.../article6158142.ece www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Body-of-former-model-Eva-Rhodes-found-buried-in-Hungary.html - velvet.hu/.../megtalaltak_eva_rhodes_holttestet/

However I agree that you expose me what you decided to keep this article and why and even what you decide to retire and why.

Know that you practice censorship, which is not necessarily consistent with the Rules of Wikipedia ...

And it would be better than we were talking before our lawyers did so ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raymondnivet (talk • contribs) 18:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

The fact that someone else disappeared at the same time in Budapest is connected by what? Connecting the two is drawing your own conclusions that the two things are connected. Off2riorob (talk) 18:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

• Please be very careful not to mention lawyers as anything related to legal threats is treated very strongly, also please assume good faith, there is no censorship. Off2riorob (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)*

I know I am not the owner of this text and I sincerely hope it is improved. but in this particular case, hell Hell In A Bucket has mostly withdrawn more than half. why? Improving an article, not delete it ....

Why not tell me why you do not mention the important things?

We have several guidelines that monitor what is included, how and why. Right now I've tried to get out the accusatory interests out. This is meant to be dry, we aren't narrating a play by play Americas Most Wanted show. Please note as Rob said legal threats of anykind are not allowed. I will thus report you to an admin. Likely a block will result until or unless you drop the legal threat per policy. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 18:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

• Raymondnivet, please retract your comment about "lawyers" as it could be reasonably construed as a legal threat. If you are indeed making a legal threat, you will be blocked from editing until the legal action is resolved. –xeno^talk 18:49, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Take a look at Jon Benet Ramsay, look at how this article is written compared to yours. We understand you are a new user but it is not yet ready for mainspace. Consider taking it to your user page and fleshing it out. If you want I can attempt to help make it NPOV and see how it can be included... Hell In A Bucket (talk) 18:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

"Facts that are proven and documented"- Existence is not the same as notability. No one is disputing the former. The latter is what this article lacks. --King Öomie 19:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

thank you. This article is important. I acknowledge that I am French from Paris and we have neither the mentality nor even how to write. In addition I have problems with language. So it is with pleasure that I am ready to listen to your advice. Especially if you do not remove me all the important points of this article ... thank you

The language barrier isn't the biggest problem. You may want to turn on GoogleTrans in your Preferences (under Gadgets) if you're having trouble understanding what people are saying to you in English, though.

The problem with the article isn't that it isn't important. Certainly it is, at least to the people involved. But then, so is your family, and your pets. What happened to the girl was terrible. But it was a murder. They're fairly common. This doesn't make her death particularly notable, in the grand scheme of things (and that's what Wikipedia is for, the big picture). The specific policy covering this article is WP:VICTIM. You may also read WP:BLP1E. Keep in mind that the fine points of different policies vary between different languages of Wikipedia. The fact that the article was acceptable on the French Wikipedia doesn't guarantee its inclusion in the English version (and it certainly doesn't mean we're engaging in censorship-we're just following our own policy). --King Öomie 21:40, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

December 2009

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to Wikipedia. However, please know that editors do not own articles and should respect the work of their fellow contributors on Ophélie Bretnacher. If you create or edit an article, know that others are free to change its content. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. So I ask you today December 9, 2009, to keep it in the state as it was in its original version, the last recorded by me...

Regards. Raymondnivet (talk) 14:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC) Hell In A Bucket (talk) 18:17, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I know I am not the owner of this text and I sincerely hope it is improved. but in this particular case, hell Hell In A Bucket has mostly withdrawn more than half. why? Improving an article, not delete it ....

Why not tell me why you do not mention the important things?

There is extended information above and on the deletion page. read the wiki-links it will help explain what we are saying. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 19:31, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 09:37, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case

You have been accused of sockpuppetry. Please refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Chloemassart for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with notes for the suspect before editing the evidence page. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 19:29, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

it's not me it's my wife. Raymondnivet (talk) 19:59, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we must insist that you assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 20:40, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

• Look, I don't think this is an issue, just one edit for your wife raymond..lets move on ..perhaps if your wife simply put the fact that she is your wife on her page than that should be ok. There has only been the one edit, shall we move on? Off2riorob (talk) 22:51, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

• Raymond, there was no bad comment meant for your wife, I am sorry that you felt that, it was more of a misunderstanding and was not meant as an insult in any way. The expression meat and socks are common on wikipedia and are related to multiple accounts controlled by the same user. Off2riorob (talk) 23:09, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry Raymond, Sometimes we use metaphors and forget that in translation things are lost. In this case I am only reffering to wikipediaterms and policy, no offense or personal insult is meant. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 00:52, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 16:35, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Your tenacity is Admirable.

You rtenacity and want-to is amazing Raymond. I appreciate the fact that you were so willing to go up to bat for Ophelie. It is truely a sad situation. I just want to show you the difference between Jon Benet Ramsey [[1]], or Natalee Hollaway, [[2]] now compare Ophelie she had a spike of coverage when she died that has steadily petered away. It is the notabilityy aspect we were talking about. I did have a question is there any articles that highlite this death as a treaty sticking point? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:02, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

		The Resilient Barnstar
		The Resilient Barnstar may be given to any editor who learns and improves from criticisms, never lets mistakes or blunders impede their growth as Wikipedians, or has the ability to recover with a smile. You have done admirable Raymond. I salute you! Hell In A Bucket (talk) 16:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Well now that the article has survived a deletion review on the French Wikipedia I don't think there should be aq problem adding it here. I can't speak french or I would offer my services. You might try rewriting the article in English and asking a editor to make sure that the spelling and context should be in English but I think it has a doubled chance of surviving here.Hell In A Bucket (talk) 00:47, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Help

{{helpme}} Hello, I have re-writed Ophélie Bretnacher. It is on my User page User:Raymondnivet/Ophélie Bretnacher disappearance wich have been kept on the french Wikipedia (after the deletion discussion) http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oph%C3%A9lie_Bretnacher Thank you for helping me. --Raymondnivet (talk) 08:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

As the article was deleted via AfD, you might want to ask at deletion review. As enwiki and frwiki probably have different inclusion criteria, the result of a deletion discussion on frwiki is of limited relevance here. Timotheus Canens (talk) 10:40, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ophélie Bretnacher disappearance

Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Ironholds (talk) 10:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The article in question was simply a message from you about the status of the article on the French wikipedia. Such things are inappropriate as articles and best kept on talkpages; that is why it was deleted, not because I questioned the importance of the subject. Ironholds (talk) 14:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've deleted it again, since it was just a re-creation of the original article. If he wants to have the article on en-wiki, he'll have to take it to WP:DRV. Jayjg (talk) 01:58, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

2nd Speedy deletion of Ophélie Bretnacher disappearance

Hello Jayjg and Happy new Year, You delated a new page on Ophélie Bretnacher. It was completely different, improved by the french wikipedians, and kept after the discussion. Not the same text, primary and secondary sources. Not the same photo. You didn't reed it ? I thought you were informed, because, I had explained all of that at Hell In A Bucket :

You r tenacity and want-to is amazing Raymond. I appreciate the fact that you were so willing to go up to bat for Ophelie. It is truely a sad situation. I just want to show you the difference between Jon Benet Ramsey 2, or Natalee Hollaway, 3 now compare Ophelie she had a spike of coverage when she died that has steadily petered away. It is the notabilityy aspect we were talking about. I did have a question is there any articles that highlite this death as a treaty sticking point? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:02, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello and Happy new Year Hell in a Bucket,

I have it :

Les familles d'Eva Rhodes et d'Ophélie Bretnacher, autre étrangère disparue en Hongrie, envisagent d'adresser ensemble une plainte auprès de l’Union européenne

http://www.jfb.hu/node/837

D'après le correspondant de l'AFP en Hongrie, ces deux affaires ont été pour lui l'aspect le plus difficile de son métier de journaliste parce que « À cause de l’AFP, on est obligé de poser des questions douloureuses que, personnellement, on préférerait se garder de poser »

http://www.jfb.hu/node/1026

Eva Rhodes & Ophélie Bretnacher have been kept after 17 days of discussion I am very happy with the way the French Wikipedians have improved the page

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oph%C3%A9lie_Bretnacher

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Rhodes

Best Regards --Raymondnivet (talk) 13:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations Raymond, the article looks real good. Off2riorob (talk) 14:30, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Well now that the article has survived a deletion review on the French Wikipedia I don't think there should be aq problem adding it here. I can't speak french or I would offer my services. You might try rewriting the article in English and asking a editor to make sure that the spelling and context should be in English but I think it has a doubled chance of surviving here.Hell In A Bucket (talk) 00:47, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Best regards and sorry if I made a mistake maybe not to inform you.--Raymondnivet (talk) 07:26, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I've added a message of support for you on the deletion review. One way or another I will help find a way to include your article. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 05:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 08:27, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Ophélie Bretnacher

Sorry for not responding earlier, I was away for several days. I'll respond at the DRV. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations on a favorable review on AFD. it has passed a deletion for the English 'pedia. Hopefully the last one it has to. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 03:38, 23 January 2010 (UTC)