Wikipedia

User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 55

< User talk:Pigsonthewing
Latest comment: 9 years ago by MediaWiki message delivery in topic The Signpost: 12 November 2014
Archive 50←Archive 53Archive 54Archive 55Archive 56Archive 57→Archive 60

Tech News: 2014-43

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. You can read translations.

Recent changes

  • You can test a new system to see math using MathML. Go to your display options and choose "⧼mw math mathml⧽".
  • You can add badges in Wikidata for quality articles and featured lists. [1] [2]

File information cleanup

Problems

  • Developers fixed a security problem. If you use Internet Explorer 6, you won't be able to log in any more. You should use a newer browser. [4]

Changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki (1.25wmf4) has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since October 16. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from October 21, and on all Wikipedias from October 23 (calendar).
  • 10% of logged-out readers are getting pages from servers that run the HHVM tool. HHVM should make pages load faster. You can also test it as a Beta Feature. [5]
  • If you add the same parameter twice in a template, it now puts the page in a tracking category. [6] [7]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

13:48, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Trial of Thomas Paine

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Thanks for your edits here; having looked into it I agree that they're good changes.

I would suggest, however, that in future you not justify a change with "MoS"; it's inside baseball, unlinked, and even if someone knows what it refers to, the MoS is a big document (or, several big documents). Ironholds (talk) 14:18, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #129

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Template deletion discussions

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I notice you've been nominating a number of templates for deletion (which, in my opinion, is cool and good). Do you think it would be helpful to concatenate the noms into one long discussion? There might be a couple points to be made regarding individual templates but I feel that the majority of the discussion could just be carbon-copied to all of them with equal applicability. Just a thought. (PS - I have not edited Wikipedia in a very long time so let me know if this suggestion has become totally absurd) { } 13:10, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

@Jacob Gotts: When they're part of a set, such as at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 October 22#Glossary templates, I do. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:19, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Signpost template

Latest comment: 10 years ago9 comments4 people in discussion

I'm fully onboard if you're trying to rationalise the template zoo. Why didn't you go to the Signpost first? Tony (talk) 23:47, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

"go to"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:43, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Ed was taken aback to find a deletion request without a heads up. But the larger picture is the importance of rationalising templates on en.WP. Tony (talk) 11:14, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Ed was making dramah. There was a prominent notification on the template, and a notification on every page which transcluded it. Indeed, he had also been discussing it on Signpost talk pages. The speedy closure of the active MfD, with only a single voice against deletion, was a shocking abuse of the admin process for which gameplaying, in a just world, the admin would loose his bit. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:21, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
There are other ways to acomplish the same goal... How about finding a replacement template the Signpost can switch to first, and then nominate the current one for deletion, so to avoid the giant notification being splattered over every (past) issue of the Signpost. I didn't want to say it out loud, but that was rather an abuse of process, and I stand well in my rights as editor to minimize such disruptions. I only had to act as admin when you stepped out of bounds and undid a valid closure. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 13:53, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
(watching) The easiest way would be to redirect the present one to the normal {{quote}}. The minimal difference in font size seems not worth to have something extra. A redirect could have been the outcome of the deletion discussion, open to all, not just a project, had it it not been prematurely closed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:02, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
How about you re-open the discussion which you improperly closed, and let the community discuss what to do? It is you who has abused process; both of your closures were improper. Your claim about "every (past) issue of the Signpost" is utterly bogus. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:15, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it's utterly bogus... As I have stated, take it to deletion review. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 14:23, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
It's utterly bogus because that is not a list of every past issue of the Signpost; and because all you needed to do if that was your beef (and if it was, you should have said so instead of giving a different reason) was to apply <nowiki> around the MfD notice on the template page. You should reverse your improper closures. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 October 2014

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Wikidata weekly summary #114

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Other Noteworthy Stuff
    • The Wikidata Game now has a 'Commons Categories' game
  • Did you know?
  • Development
    • Made significant performance improvements (to be rolled out next week)
    • Worked on usability improvements to the editing of sitelinks
    • When you link to an image on Wikimedia Commons in a statement it will now show up in “global usage” there.
    • Made the phpunit tests for Wikibase much faster
    • Wikibase phpunit tests on travis pass with hhvm now
    • Fixed label/description uniqueness constraint checks
    • Work on entity usage tracking
    • Year formatter now shows the year instead of the unformatted ISO string in case of a precision mismatch
    • Diff and old revision pages don’t run the JavaScript UI any more, should be much faster now
    • Introduced a Changers concept to the JavaScript frontend, wrapping the API and entityStore functionality
    • Identified issue causing content in the old serialization format to be included in XML dumps
  • Monthly Tasks

Tech News: 2014-44

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems

  • There was an issue with files from Commons on October 21. You could only see those with names between 140 and 159 characters by visiting Commons itself. [8]
  • There was a problem with cut and paste in VisualEditor in Firefox. It was fixed quickly. [9]
  • There was a problem with editing math in VisualEditor. It was fixed quickly. [10]

Software changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki will now come to Wikipedia sites every Wednesday, instead of every Thursday. [11]
  • The new version of MediaWiki (1.25wmf5) has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since October 23. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from October 28, and on all Wikipedias from October 29 (calendar).
  • VisualEditor now uses autovalues for templates if they are in TemplateData. [12] [13] [14]
  • VisualEditor's menu items now show their shortcuts beside them. [15]
  • VisualEditor now opens faster when you click "edit". [16]
  • The rules for plurals in translations changed in some languages. Interface translations are currently not being updated from translatewiki.net; this process will start again on November 6. [17]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

05:21, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Games infoboxes

Latest comment: 10 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hi Andy! How are you getting on with merging the games infoboxes following on from this TFD discussion? Template:Infobox Country Asian Games has been "in the process of being merged" for several months now. Is it even possible to do? I'm a little bit worried that the concerns I raised in the discussion are bearing out. We should probably assess whether this is do-able or not and close down the merge proposal as appropriate. SFB 21:18, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

The merge proposal has already been "closed down" - with a consensus to merge. There is no deadline. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:53, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
True, but I don't see the benefit of leaving templates in a long-term state of having banners showing they are "currently" being merged. I think of templates like foundation blocks of the encyclopaedia – content tends to get built in other ways if the foundations aren't fixed. I'm not massively bothered about it, but it does make me question the value of using people's time to have discussions that don't result in anything for several months – the older the discussion, the less representative of the current opinion it gets. SFB 23:48, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 October 2014

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

EduWiki

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

How did your session go at EduWiki? I wish I could've joined you! I'll be visiting TGH on the 10th-13th Nov, though, so perhaps we could get together then? Walkerma (talk) 00:32, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

@Walkerma: It went well, thanks. Would be good to meet you there; Ill let you know once I've confirmed my availability. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:44, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #131

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Tech News: 2014-45

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes

Problems

  • There was a bug in VisualEditor with Internet Explorer. It hid tools like the link editor when you opened them. The bug was fixed on Monday. [21]
  • Issues with the new search tool caused geo data code to show up on pages on Monday and Friday. The mobile "nearby" tool was also broken. The problem is now fixed. [22] [23] [24]
  • HHVM caused server issues on Thursday. They are now fixed.

Software changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki (1.25wmf5) has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since October 29. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from November 4, and on all Wikipedias from November 5 (calendar).
  • Some wikis have icons at the top of a page to show if it is protected or featured. Icons show up using CSS. You can now use the <indicator> tag in these templates instead to add the icons. [25] [26]
  • VisualEditor now tells you if you're editing a re-used reference. This helps you avoid changing it if you just want to add a new one. [27]
  • The icons in VisualEditor's template editor tool for adding more fields are back, along with other fixes. [28] [29] [30] [31] [32]
  • After November 6, all wikis will have the tool to edit TemplateData. [33] [34] [35]

Future changes

  • The new search tool will come to the last wikis in the coming weeks. This includes Wikipedia in French, Chinese, German and English. [36]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

17:28, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Station Infobox templates

Latest comment: 10 years ago22 comments3 people in discussion

You are currently nominating many for of them deletion or merging into more generic Infoboxes. I agree with most of those, but don't understand why you have avoided Template:Infobox bus station which could easily be made redundant to the standard Template:Infobox station. It is still a little UK-centric, even after you moved it and made some amendments, but much of that could be eliminated without much loss and a few parameters added to the main one, which is already being used for intermodal passenger transport stations. Secondarywaltz (talk) 21:34, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I had planned to do some further work to globalise it; but it hadn't occurred to me that {{Infobox station}} could fill the need. I'll take a look, tomorrow. Thank you, and please make your views known in the various TfD discussions. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:39, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
@Secondarywaltz: On closer inspection, there doesn't seem to be a great overlap in parameters. Can you give one or two examples of intermodal stations using the template, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:41, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Parameter match and comparisons
Infobox bus station Infobox station
name {{{name}}}
image {{{image}}}
image_caption {{{image_caption}}}
image_alt NONE
{{{alt}}}
other_name {{{native_name}}}
{{{other_name}}}
locale {{{address}}}
borough {{{address}}}
longitude {{{longitude}}}
latitude {{{latitude}}}
coordinates_region {{{ISO Region}}}
gridref ADD (UK only use)
start {{{open}}}
closed {{{closed}}}
manager {{{owned}}} or {{{operator}}}
Could ADD this extra one
stands {{{platforms}}} for train and bus
ADD specific "bus_stands"
{{{bus_stands}}}
operators {{{operator}}}
{{{bus_operators}}}
routes {{{line}}}
{{{routes}}}
travelcentre ADD if required
A fun-in-the-sun agency? {{{travelcentre}}}
natexp NONE (UK only use)
Could this be eliminated?
railstation {{{connections}}}
usage {{{passengers}}}
map_type
map_caption
map_alt
map_dot_label
map_size
label_position		 {{{map_locator}}}
by directly inserting
Template:Location map
website {{{website}}}

Is there really a need for a parameter that only refers to National Express? It's one of many bus companies. Even in Britain a "travelcentre" could mean different things, ranging from a fully fledged fun-in-the-sun agency to a ticket booth. What is it meant to indicate in this context? Most of the parameters are covered except for a couple that could be added. Secondarywaltz (talk) 19:28, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. It was |routes= (which is not |lines=), and |natexp= parameters I was thinking of in particular. |other_name= is not the same as |native_name=; I'd already added the latter to the bus template, and the reverse could also be done. Let me have a further think. We may need to put some tracking categories into the bus template, to see how much its unique parameters are used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Seems |natexp= didn't acutally exist; I've removed it from the documentation, and struck it in your table. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:14, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
More updates/ striking out added. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:39, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Added Category:Temporary - Infobox bus station using travelcentre parameter. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:45, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
The subtle change of parameter name to {{{bus_stand}}} that I had suggested above, was because "stand" in that context may not be understood outside British or Indian cultures. In some places bus routes are referred to as lines (just not by you and me). It's tricky designing for every version of English culture. Thanks for the quick updates. Secondarywaltz (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Good point. I'll change it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
|operators= for a bus station are the bus route operates; |operator= for a railway station is the company which runs the station. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Still working; but how's this? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:31, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Also one with map. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:49, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
For compatibility with Preston bus station you need to fix the caption under the map, which currently says the ugly "Location within United Kingdom Preston central" and used to say "Location within Preston city centre". -- Dr Greg  talk  22:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
@Dr Greg: Done, though I'd be interested to learn what prevented you from doing so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:17, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
No, that wasn't the solution I was looking for. My point is, the template default should do it for me automatically, just like {{Infobox bus station}} already does. I'm not an administrator so I can't make the necessary fix to {{Infobox station}}. -- Dr Greg  talk  23:22, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
I see what you mean. That should be working, now. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:35, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


145 pages using this template have |travelcentre=yes. 9 pages have |gridref=. I've removed the latter. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

@Secondarywaltz: I think only the map parameters remain to resolve, now; can you elaborate on your comments in that section, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:39, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea how to deal with maps in an Infobox. In most cases I really just want to delete them, because the location they show is not explicit enough. A dot in the middle of a country, state or city does not help me very much. We already know those things. Coordinates are much more useful in that they can be opened in a choice of mapping and zoomed to the level of detail you require. Secondarywaltz (talk) 23:52, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
@Secondarywaltz: I agree utterly. Hopefully, the forthcoming OpenStreetMap-based tile server will render them redundant. In the meantime, though, I doubt we'd find consensus to remove them from this template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:46, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Catalysts and Catalysed Reactions

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Catalysts and Catalysed Reactions is currently an orphan article. Might be a bit of low hanging fruit for you to sort out. --Project Osprey (talk) 19:32, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to King Edward VII Memorial may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
  • DEFAULTSORT:Edward Vii, Statue}}

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 16:32, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

BBC composer pages

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Excellent additions. Some top notch stuff in them, which I'm still getting familiar with. Thank you for incorporating links to them. Tim riley talk 21:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. (Talk page stalkers: see Template talk:BBC composer page). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:08, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Nonsensical fragment

Latest comment: 10 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Andy, I agree that a reference to the Idle Women wasn't sensible in the lead of the Sonia Rolt article, but far from nonsensical. Have a look at this Independent article or this book. Haven't got round to a wiki article, but it's a good piece of feminist propaganda. Chris55 (talk) 08:51, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

The fragment was the emboldened part of the sentence "At the beginning of World War II she volunteered to work on the canals and because they had a badge for the Inland Waterways (IW) were named the Idle Women". That's - quite clearly - nonsensical. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:42, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Not nonsensical it just leaves out the rather obvious fact that she wasn't the only woman who volunteered. Had you been a little more helpful and less in put-down mode I might have got it first time round. Chris55 (talk)
It is not written in coherent English. It is nonsensical. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Now Available (November 2014)

Hello Wikimedians!

 
The TWL OWL says sign up today :)

The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for, free, full-access accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for:

  • DeGruyter: 1000 new accounts for English and German-language research. Sign up on one of two language Wikipedias:
  • Fold3: 100 new accounts for American history and military archives
  • Scotland's People: 100 new accounts for Scottish genealogy database
  • British Newspaper Archive: expanded by 100+ accounts for British newspapers
  • Highbeam: 100+ remaining accounts for newspaper and magazine archives
  • Questia: 100+ remaining accounts for journal and social science articles
  • JSTOR: 100+ remaining accounts for journal archives

Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects: sign up today!
--The Wikipedia Library Team 23:25, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

You can host and coordinate signups for a Wikipedia Library branch in your own language. Please contact Ocaasi (WMF).
This message was delivered via the Mass Message to the Book & Bytes recipient list.

Periglacial => Periglaciation

Latest comment: 10 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Hi Andy, I noticed that you unmerged these two articles and then proposed merging them. Since you appear to be an experienced Wikipedian, I infer that your actions and suggestion are ones of process, not agreement or disagreement with such a merger. (I note "bad merge" in one of your comments.) Since there was no page, Periglaciation, before I migrated the contents of Periglacial there, it wasn't really a merge, but a name change. This because the article title, Periglacial, violated WP:NOUN, I moved it to one of the same scope, except with a noun for the title. My move occurred after a period from March to May to allow for other users to comment. None did. Your thoughts? (I'll monitor this page for your reply.) Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 03:21, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

You apparently performed what is known as a "cut and paste move". This deprecated process neglects to carry the editing history (and this attributions) to the new article. The correct process would have been to use the "move" function, but since the newer article has been subsequently edited, that action is no longer available to us, and a "history merge" should be performed by an administrator. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for that insight, Andy. Knowledge of the proper function was above my pay grade, but now I'll know to be more careful. Since the move appears to be an issue of mechanics, not of consensus, how do I apply for an administrator to do the history merge? Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 12:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
You could ask on WP:AN. Be sure to mention "history merge". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:31, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 November 2014

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Wikidata weekly summary #132

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
 
Sir Nigel Shadbolt, Lydia, Magnus and Sir Tim Berners-Lee at the ODI award gala

Tech News: 2014-46

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes

  • You may see a new tool on the mobile site of the English Wikipedia. It asks simple questions to make the article better. In the future, your answers will go to Wikidata. [37] [38]
  • The MediaWiki API now shows information in a nice format. You can translate it in translatewiki.net. [39]

File information cleanup

Problems

  • Wikimedia Labs was broken for a few hours on Thursday. It was due to a hardware problem. [40]

Software changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki (1.25wmf7) has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since November 5. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from November 11, and on all Wikipedias from November 12 (calendar).
  • You can now use more editing tools for tables in VisualEditor. You can add rows and columns, merge cells, and edit table captions. [41] [42]
  • The style and insert menus in the toolbar of VisualEditor now show fewer tools. This helps you see the most common tasks. You can see all items by clicking "More". [43]
  • The way windows inside VisualEditor work has changed. VisualEditor should be faster and have fewer bugs. [44]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:00, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Clophill

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I gotta say I'm confused as all get-out by, what seems to be, unreasonable tags as a reaction to this simple factual claim, that "The incident was covered in some detail in the 2013 film The Paranormal Diaries: Clophill." Keep in mind that the only claim being made by this statement is that the movie addresses the incident. Due to the fact that this claim is so extremely easily verifiable, with no room for interpretation, it really is a case where a primary source is acceptable. How could a mainstream motion picture be considered a "fringe" source? The fact that the incident was covered in some detail in the film -- which is all the statement is claiming -- is really indisputable. It's a real stretch of the imagination and of definition to define the source as "unreliable" -- unless I'm somehow missing something? I also don't understand the "not in citation given" tag, as clicking on the tag for clarification leads you to the Wikipedia policy article on verifiability, leading me to again point out how extremely verifiable this is. Look, I know that some Wikipedia editors like to be on the lookout for the use of primary sources. But read the WP policy, and you'll see that they're not forbidden outright, nor is the use of them automatically "original research." To quote the policy, "The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist. This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources."

There is no analysis or synthesis of published material going on here. This is a case where the fact is so simple and verifiable that the claim is comparable to stating in the introduction to the article on Moby Dick that there is a whale in the novel.

Furthermore, it seems destructive to simply re-add the tags without bothering to respond to the dialogue opened on the talk page.

Incidentally, this is not a matter of somebody taking "ownership" of an edit, since I'm not the person who originally included this factoid in the article. But I do think that the tags are being really absurdly applied here, and it's the absurdity I object to. If I'm wrong due to my own misunderstanding of either policy or the meaning to the tags that were applied, please enlighten me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.102.146 (talk) 05:06, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

It's unlikely that the claim "some detail" was in the programme; if it was, it's an unreliable source. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:47, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

(sigh) I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obstinate, or just misunderstanding something extremely simple. The statement under question is "The incident was covered in some detail" in the film. I admit that the film itself didn't use the actual phrase "some detail." That's got nothing to do with the fact that the movie itself covers the incident in detail. Get it? The film is not an unreliable source by any stretch of the imagination. You watch the movie, and you see that the movie covers the incident in some detail -- or, if you don't like that particular phrasing for some reason, the movie covers the incident. With details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.83.14 (talk • contribs) 21:46, 11 November 2014

This Month in GLAM: October 2014

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 


Headlines
Read this edition in full • Single-page

To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

Wikidata weekly summary #133

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Events/Blogs/Press
    • Upcoming office hours for Commons (Nov 20th) and Wikidata (Dec 3rd). More details on the office hour page.
    • GLAM/Wikidata hackathon in Amsterdam
  • Other Noteworthy Stuff
    • Help make sure these items have labels in your language
  • Did you know?
  • Development
    • Work on reviving the tree of life built from Wikidata data
    • Added a "featured portal" badge (Q17580674)
    • Improved the performance of getting labels and sitelinks in Lua (and decreased the memory usage)
    • Did groundwork on applying page deletions to the repo
    • Refactor initialization of EntityView so that we can use batched label lookup for improved performance.
    • Added IRC to available protocolls for the URL datatype
    • Improved calendar model display
  • Monthly Tasks

Bold text...

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

... in this specific setting, where a "virtual" dialogue between participants of a long-established online community is taking place in the open - for any and all to witness, be that intentional or by happenstance - is considered bad [N]etiquette. The IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force) was one, if not the first, to outline the basics of 'good netiquette' back in the 1990s (see RFC-1855). Since then, the online world has changed dramatically, but the underlying rationale behind each point has remained sound in spite of those changes.

In a nutshell, the usage of "all-caps" as outlined back in the days of Dos 6 & Windows 11 has morphed to incorporate more of the commonly available "buttons" the various interface advancements since then has provide us with today - nevertheless, the intention or motivation behind whatever that 'new way to...' comes off much the same in today's terms regardless.

Its my belief that you did not merely want to emphasize a nuance in your rebuttal for my (or any other reader's) benefit or ease of comprehension but to dismiss-by-minimizing the stated opposing concerns in a dominant voice (e.g. shouted down) at the same time ("I note..."). What should I have done next? Replied to you the same way in hopes to regain equal footing? Devolve further into a contest of wills where I note that you note that I noted what you noted part of which I noted that wasn't noted by you in the note where... an so on? More likely than not, any legitimate concerns already voiced or still to come would then be overshadowed by the apparent instability of the resulting online wing-nut parade taking place. _Mission accomplished_

Plus what is the point of reserving bold-text primarily for bulleted items, form labels, section headings, title boxes & similar when one can pollute relevant content or straight talk the same way? Hypothetically, you wouldn't try to emphasize one of your contributions to a typical Wikipedia article mid-paragraph by bolding that text would you?—I'd think not (for, I hope, obvious reasons), so why would you do it in just as a formal setting as the main namespace hosts (it felt like something marginally acceptable for the User: space at best; not the Project space).

If that summation still doesn't help to convince you of the offense taken, then there is little else I can say or do to help connect the dots for you in moving forward. Prost. -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:18, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Your beliefs are false. HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:38, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 November 2014

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Tech News: 2014-47

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Software changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki (1.25wmf8) has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since November 12. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from November 18, and on all Wikipedias from November 19 (calendar).
  • The new search tool ("CirrusSearch") will be on the English Wikipedia from November 19. [45]

Move from Bugzilla to Phabricator

  • The tool to track bugs will change on November 21.
  • You won't be able to add or edit bugs between November 21 and November 24.
  • You can make the change easier for you by creating your account.
  • Bugzilla will be frozen after the change. You will see, edit and report bugs in Phabricator.
  • You can join two IRC chats to learn more about the change. The chats will be on Tuesday, November 18 at 16:00 (UTC) and 23:00 UTC. [46]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

18:28, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive_55&oldid=1166674815"