Pansitkanton

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We're so glad you're here! Senator2029 (talk) 07:25, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

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thanks

Thanks for the maps of the Philippine languages, and for fixing up the classifications. I didn't realize I'd missed so many! — kwami (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

BTW, our language articles don't always correspond one-to-one with Ethnologue. SIL tends to be a bit ambitious in carving out new languages, so sometimes one of ours will have more than one ISO code. However, the maps you're making are only a match to one of the codes. Perhaps the articles really should be divided to correspond to Ethnologue, but otherwise the maps should fit the coverage in the article. Eg, Isnag language, Maranao language (+ a bit in Sabah), Surigaonon language, Aklan language, etc. — kwami (talk) 18:17, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so I now got what you meant by this. I did separate maps for Itneg dialects. I'll just merge the maps. Thanks — Pansitkanton (talk) 15:21, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Ethnologue is often inconsistent in what they consider a language, but my consolidations may be inappropriate too, so if you know better than either of us, don't hesitate to split an article, even if that means two articles have to share an ISO code (in such cases, we try to use Linguist List's [abc-xyz] codes, but they don't always exist), or to merge articles with separate ISO codes. Generally, my aim was to have a separate article for every language variety that is unintelligible to others, but not for every ethnic group speaking mutually intelligible varieties, even if Ethnologue counts them separately. — kwami (talk) 19:37, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what are Wikipedia mods' yardstick in creating new language articles, but as I suppose you are specializing or have a background in linguistics, "languages" can only do much as labels most especially if it concerns two or more geographically-contiguous and closely related speech systems. Technically, mutual intelligibility is one basis to classify something as a language more than a dialect of another one. However, as for the case of Norwegian-Danish-Swedish, we generally consider them separate languages despite that linguistic analysis reveals they're more of a Scandinavian dialect continuum. An alternate case for Chinese languages which are called dialects in local discourse, yet are distinguishably unintelligible. What do you guys typically do here on Wikipedia? Do you generally use mutual intelligibility as criteria for a separate article or political labels? There are High German dialects with separate articles. Or I suppose the breadth of content has something to do with that? Personally, since a lot of these dialect clusters I'm working on have barely any substantial literature (grammar, phonology), and since they are linguistically classified as dialects anyway, I suggest they remain under one language article. — Pansitkanton (talk) 19:54, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

That's fine by me. It's also fine if you want to merge varieties that Ethnologue distinguishes. I generally go by mutual intelligibility, but others go by official recognition. We've also got the problem of being restricted by our sources, which may use conflicting criteria. Dialect chains are a problem no matter how we approach them. — kwami (talk) 21:04, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

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Visayas

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Borneo-Philippine languages

Template:Borneo-Philippine languages has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. NSH002 (talk) 16:04, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

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keeping redirects

Per this edit,[1] it's better to keep the language names (Gubat etc.) in the links. Some day the articles may be split, and if they are, your edit will no longer take the reader to the correct article. That's a primary reason for using redirects. — kwami (talk) 22:30, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:Austronesian languages

I cleaned this template up a bit, and fixed the duplicate argument error, but several problems remain. The first, and most important, problem is that it is far too big. For details, see WP:NAVBOX, especially "All articles within a template relate to a single, coherent subject". The same applies to Template:Borneo-Philippine languages mentioned above - which just needs to be split into separate templates for the Borneo and Philippine languages, but is otherwise in fairly good condition. See also WP:BIDIRECTIONAL for the basic idea behind navboxes: "Every article that transcludes a given navbox should normally also be included as a link in the navbox so that the navigation is bidirectional." In brief: it needs to be split up!

Also:

1. It's a bad idea to nest one call of {{Navbox with collapsible groups}} within another one. The whole point is to display all the collapsible sections as closed by default, except for one, which can be specified within an article page when it calls the navbox. It's not possible to do this if it's nested within another call of itself. For the same reason, it makes no sense to specify |state= (except within "noinclude" tags) since the state is implied by the argument passed externally to the navbox calls.
3. If you want to display a title across the top of a child navbox (which I suspect is your intention here), you can do so using |title=, no need to use the collapsible groups template.
5. There is little point hiding a very small section within {{Navbox with collapsible groups}}.
7. Be aware that {{Navbox with collapsible groups}} doesn't solve the problem of large templates, it merely hides it; so does hiding a group using |title=.

Hope this helps. Regards, NSH002 (talk) 11:21, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I never thought of using |title=. This is much more convenient and would help me comply well with Wikipedia standards. Thank you so much! --Pansitkanton (talk) 11:24, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Just remember, they still need to be split up (as a rough guide - there are exceptions - a navbox with more than about 50 or 60 entries should be split up). If they aren't split up after a reasonable time, I'll probably nominate them for deletion. Or you can nominate them yourself once they've been split up, since they'll no longer be needed. You could also consider using a footer template to link the resulting smaller templates; for an example, see Template:Japan Academy Award (film) footer. NSH002 (talk) 11:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Image sizes in articles

Hi. This recent edit of yours caught my eye. It is not uncommon for WP editors to hardcode image sizes which look good to them when articles are previewed on whatever size, resolution, and display geometry they are using. However, I want to ask you to read WP:MOS#Images, particularly the point which reads, "The thumbnail option may be used (thumb), or another size may be fixed. The default thumbnail width is 220 pixels; users can adjust this in their preferences. Lead images should be no wider than "upright=1.35" (by default this is 300 pixels)." Please keep in mind that other WP users may be using different displays and different display resolutions and geomotries than you, and that display sizes and resolutions commonly in use tend to change as technology evolves. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:15, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

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IP block exemption

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Pansitkanton (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

Caught by a colocation web host block but this host or IP is not a web host.

Decline reason:

Procedural decline only. You forgot to tell us your IP address so we can't investigate your claim. You can find this using WhatIsMyIP. If you don't wish to provide this publicly, you may use WP:UTRS to provide the IP address privately. Yamla (talk) 12:40, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

---

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Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Sunda-Sulawesi languages

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Your draft article, Draft:Proto-Visayan language

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Proto-Philippine language

Hi Pansitkanton, good to see you again! Thanks a lot for your edits to Proto-Philippine language, especially about the history of the classification and the changing "boundaries" of the Philippine subgroup. Regarding these edits, I have three comments and suggestions:

• You added a lot of important citations, but they are not (yet?) listed anywhere among the references, e.g. Himmelmann (1990), Thomas & Healey (1962), Dyen (1965), Walton (1979), McFarland (1980).
• The classification (not "reconstruction") by David Zorc is great, but as you say, "the groupings herein may no longer reflect widely accepted classifications or naming conventions today". "May no longer" is too weak; Southern Philippines and Meso-Philippine are obsolete, and the inclusion of Ivatan, "South extension" (= Central Luzon languages) and North Mangyan within Cordilleran is not supported in later classifcations. Zorc's classification is of historical importance, but coverage should be resticted to a minimum and further balanced by the more recent consensus classifications by Blust and Reid, which are generally accepted, in spite of the fact that these two scholars disagree about the most important point, viz. the validity of the Philippine subgroup itself.
• My final point is more of a practical nature. We have two articles here on WP, Philippine languages and Proto-Philippine language. The first article is about the subgroup itself, including the history of the proposal, its accptance, and the internal classification. The second article is about the details of the reconstructed proto-language, such as phonology, grammar (yet to be written), and lexicon. Most of your additions belong – at least imho – to the article Philippine languages, where you will also find the currently accepted subgrouping. So I'd suggest to move the classification part to the existing "Classification" section of Philippine languages, and just leave a {{main}}-tag here. Having too much detail in related articles creates the necessity of synchonizing the information in these articles. Also the "History" section should be moved; a "History" section of Proto-Philippine language should only cover the history of the actual reconstruction of PPh.

We have a lot of language family-related articles here with a distribution of information as I have suggested above for Philippine languages and Proto-Philippine language, e.g. Afroasiatic languages/Proto-Afroasiatic language, Germanic languages/Proto-Germanic language, Dravidian languages/Proto-Dravidian language. So I think it makes sense to apply it to Philippine languages/Proto-Philippine language as well. –Austronesier (talk) 17:13, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Austronesier! It's currently a work in progress which I'll have to edit from time to time. Greatly appreciate your input as always! This'll definitely inform me in how I shape the article (and the others you mentioned). Hopefully this takes a better shape in a couple of days, since I'm also currently reviewing all possible literature I can pull out. –112.206.72.35 (talk) 17:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

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Welcome back!

Hey, good to see you again, it's been a while! Great job with the update of the AN template; it's massive and every re-arrangement is a real challenge. –Austronesier (talk) 14:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Hey, it really has been a while! Thanks for the positive feedback as always. Other family nav boxes (e.g. IE) aren't as "thick" as the (older) AN version, so I was actually worried if mods would revert my changes because they might become too unwieldy for a nav box. It also bothered me that for years there were many info gaps and the box does not effectively reflect the complete picture of the family vis-a-vis actual articles and updates in the field. From your response it does seem I'm on track. Though, I was thinking if I should still put narrower groupings for more internally diverse branches like those in Meso-Melanesian and North New Guinea. I lumped the languages together because at this point it might look too eye straining if I go 2 more levels, but I feel this is not doing the groupings any justice. What do you think? —Pansitkanton (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2021 (UTC) 18:07, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Well, there are some voices against having a super-large template, but since everything is collapsible, and since templates are not displayed in mobile view, I have less qualms about it. For Oceanic you should get in touch with User:Womtelo for the finer details of the internal classification. I have made some fine-tuning to CMP (I have written a paper about CMP subclassification that will come out soon, so I have to hold quite back with OR); Celebic and South Sulawesi look good. Badaic is tricky, because if Kaili-Wolio is valid, it does not contain Badaic. So a hybrid of the old Kaili-Pamona group and the modern Kaili-Wolio proposal will always be somewhat inconsistent. I have further added a question mark to Totoli and Boano, but removed it from Embaloh. I think the South Sulawesi status of Embaloh and its special link with Bugis-Campalagian are established. –Austronesier (talk) 22:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I wish we could somehow transclude the smaller templates within the bigger ones. It would make updating and synchronization much easier. –Austronesier (talk) 22:31, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Central Malayo–Polynesian languages

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