User talk:Opera hat/Archive 2

Lady Laurence

You're right that we shouldn't be perpetuating the unsourced style "The Princess Royal, Lady Laurence". I have, however, added a note on her entitlement to the style - here. Is that ok? DBD 10:18, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree. I've just done some trawling through the online London Gazette for examples of usage and the Princesses Royal Louise (Duchess of Fife) and Mary (Countess of Harewood) are only ever called "HRH the Princess Royal" after their creation as such, except when they are listed among the peeresses at coronations. (I've just amended their articles accordingly.) This exception obviously would not apply to the current Princess Royal, so there is no circumstance when "Lady Laurence" would ever be used. I think all other titles give way to the higher one of Princess Royal. Opera hat (talk) 12:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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Compromise

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Charmian Fleming

Yes - Chancellor does mention that Fleming's first cousin Charmian married Ian's brother Richard: it's a little off topic, but I've altered the text to reflect that as it is good background. Cheers! - SchroCat (^ • @) 05:44, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

C-in-C East Indies

Hi - I don't know if you have seen the Book of Dignitaries (here is the link [1]). I would welcome any thoughts you have on the gap in the current wikipedia list after Cornish. Perhaps the post was vacant? Dormskirk (talk) 21:57, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello. Yes, I used the Haydn source as the starting-off point when adding the pre-1830 commanders. I had thought it might be likely the post was vacant as Britain and France were no longer at war following the Treaty of Paris (1763), but I've just rechecked Cornish's entry in the ODNB and the relevant section reads "Cornish, who had been advanced to vice-admiral of the blue on 21 October 1762, returned to Europe in February 1763 before news of the peace treaty was known in Asia...". So I don't know, I'm afraid. Opera hat (talk) 16:03, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

OK. Congratulations on your excellent work expanding the list in the first place. Dormskirk (talk) 16:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

New articles you created

		The Writer's Barnstar
		Thanks for the recent new articles you created, including George Burlton, Frederick Watkins and High Steward of Ipswich. Your contributions to improve Wikipedia's coverage of notable people and topics is appreciated. Northamerica1000(talk) 22:25, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

New cfds regarding "Old Fooians"

Two new cfds propose the renaming of some twenty categories. Most of those who took part in last year's cfd "Former pupils by school in the United Kingdom" seem unaware of them, so I am notifying all those who took part in that discussion, to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus. Please consider contributing here and here. Moonraker (talk) 13:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Princess Ringo George Paul John

Hat, I think you know as well as I that British princesses by marriage (who aren't royal by birth) take on their husbands' full styles in feminine form (such as The Princess Charles The former Princess Andrew, The Princess Edward, Princess Richard, Princess Edward and Princess Michael to name only those living apart from Catherine). There are a few reasonably reputable sources I found straight away (MSN RFH Royal Insight). We simply have no evidence that such practice (the status quo) has suddenly been parted with in Catherine's case, so I am going to revert. DBD 22:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know anything of the kind. I can explain to you why I doubt it if you want, but for the purpose of wikipedia articles (particularly biographies of living persons) it doesn't matter: the burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and a blog and a couple of royalty fan-sites are not reliable sources. I'm surprised at you for having removed a "citation needed" tag without providing a citation in its place. Opera hat (talk) 19:32, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

James Johnston (died 1795)

Hi, I think you mean Lieut-General Johnston, the only surviving son of this man James Johnston (Secretary of State) who was born 21 May 1721 baptised St Martin-in-the-Fields 29 June 1721 and died probably at Weston nr Bath 26 November 1795. Is that right? If so I can add some more. I can find no blood relationship between him and "Irish" Johnston and it would be nice to have the link. Eddaido (talk) 02:05, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't know. I did notice the James Johnston (1721-1795) in the article on the Secretary of State, but that section of the article is totally unreferenced, so I didn't like to use the information. Please go ahead if you have better sources! The only mention I found of the two James Johnstons being related is in that old History of the 4th Dragoon Guards I've cited: possibly not that reliable on genealogical matters. Opera hat (talk) 02:15, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

A bit more hunting online brings up this site which gives as a source the 1952 edition of Burke's Landed Gentry. The common ancestor is Archibald Johnston of Warriston (died October 1619) who married Rachel daughter of Sir John Arnot, Provost of Edinburgh and had issue, including two sons: 1) James Johnston of Beirholm (died 1617) who married Elspeth daughter of Sir Thomas Craig and had Archibald Johnston, Lord Warriston (c. 1610-1663), Lord Advocate, who married Helen daughter of Sir Alexander Hay and had (among others) James Johnston (1655-1744), Secretary of State, anachronistically described as of Orleans House, married Catherine daughter of John 2nd Lord Poulett and had Colonel James Johnston, married to Charlotte daughter of George 1st Earl of Halifax; and 2) Joseph Johnston (c. 1601-c. 1638), 1st of Hilton, married Sophia daughter of Patrick Home of Polwarth and had Archibald Johnston (c. 1630-1671), 2nd of Hilton, married Catherine daughter of Sir George Winram of Libberton and had (among others) Sir Patrick Johnston (c. 1650-Sep 1736), Lord Provost of Edinburgh, married Margaret Kynnear and had Captain George Johnston (c. 1686-7 Jun 1770) of Kimmerghame and Monkstown, married Hesther daughter of J. Bland of Dublin and had General James Johnston (died Dec 1797), married Henrietta Cecilia daughter of John 1st Earl De La Warr and had Major Henry George Johnston (1766-c. 1808) and Caroline Johnston, married Francis Evelyn Anderson brother of 1st Lord Yarborough.

What's your source that the Colonel Johnston who married Lord Halifax's daughter is the same as the General Johnston who was colonel of the Scots Greys? Opera hat (talk) 04:29, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

The man that runs Stirnet is a Scot by descent and that (Scotland) was his original focus, he is not always perfectly accurate but I see no reason to disagree with what you have passed on. I'm not a customer so can't see what he says on his site. Anyway by my calculations that makes Irish Johnston and Mr Secretary Johnston (the father) third cousins so I thank you for that. Same man col of Royal Horse Guards then Scots Greys? I'm going to have to take some time to go into that. From a codicil dated 12 Feb 1795 to his will "I give to my good friend Major General Home Colonel of the Grey Dragoons my sword which was presented to me by the Prince of Wales. I give unto Adjutant Lieutenant Richmond of the Grey Dragoons my Regimental saddle housings and caps". Is that meaningful? Will be back. Eddaido (talk) 05:46, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a customer either, I was just being quick with the "print screen" button. Opera hat (talk) 00:15, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake to say I'd be back. He also signs off at the end of the (long) will with Colonel of the Royal Regiment North British Dragoons. Johnston's executors were Joseph Jekyll Esq and George Bussy Villiers, Earl of Jersey, which ties up the other side. Eddaido (talk) 21:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

More time now, its a long will, "my first wife who was sister to the late Earl of Halifax". Comfortable? Eddaido (talk) 00:09, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, I believe you! Good work. Where has his will been published, though? Opera hat (talk) 00:15, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

So far as I know only here: The National Archives, DocumentsOnline. Let me know if the link does not take you directly to it. Eddaido (talk) 01:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Are you able to check Johnston's exact death date? I suspect he's the "James Johnstone" who was appointed Governor of Duncannon Fort in 1782.[2] However, these offices were usually held for life or until reappointment elsewhere, and the London Gazette gives a date of 2 December 1795 for Sir Robert Sloper's appointment as Governor,[3] which seems a bit early if Johnston died on 24 December. Opera hat (talk) 23:55, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

No, I can't but here's an item which says he died on 24 November [4], one that says December[5] and another [6], I guess the first one is likely to be most accurate what with a day and all, I suppose a burial record would be best but I don't know how to access them for Weston parish church. My own record shows 26 November which may have been a burial but I don't now know where I found it but will keep looking. Not enough help am I! Regards, Eddaido (talk) 00:23, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

May I request your aid?

I have been in the process of working back from the present and merging redundant articles, along with moving them to appropriate spots, with regards to the British ministries (Talk:List of British governments). Since you said you created some of the articles, I gathered that you have some experience with Wikitables, among other things. If possible, would you be willing to help split Conservative Government 1957-1964 into Macmillan ministry and Douglas-Home ministry pages? Furthermore, would you be willing to help me with other mergers? It would be useful to have multiple people working at the same time. Thanks. RGloucester (talk) 22:48, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

What's the justification for organising these lists by Prime Minister rather than by party? I would have thought there should only be separate articles if the entire government left office, rather than just the Prime Minister. At present the article Eden ministry (previously Conservative Government 1955-1957, which I didn't create) seems to say that all the ministers were reappointed to their offices in April 1955, which is not what the source says. Twentieth Century British Political Facts splits the mid-20c. Conservative period in office into two: 1951-1957 (Churchill and Eden) and 1957-1964 (Macmillan and Douglas-Home). If that's what the principal (only?) source does, I don't see why wikipedia should do things differently. Opera hat (talk) 08:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I've just copied this to Talk:List of British governments as that seems the better place to raise such an issue. Opera hat (talk) 08:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

(Copied from Talk:List of British governments) The traditional method of organization for British ministries is that each time a new government is “formed” i.e. after each election, a new ministry begins. That is regardless of whether the ministers remain the same. There are many advantages of using the traditional ministry format. First off, clearer and more concise: most people think of governments in term of their prime minister, I.E. Thatcher government or Thatcher ministry rather than “Conservative government 1979-1990”. It also avoids conflating two different premierships, which can be dangerous if they have different “visions”. I.e. both Chamberlain and Churchill were conservatives, but they had vastly different war policies. See List of Australian ministries for an example of how this works. They’ve got it more right than those who invented the system… I’m working on verifying the facts in all articles as we speak. You can go on and correct that if it is indeed wrong. This format, being traditionally correct, being used by the Dominions (if I may use that term…), and being concise, in that the Prime Minister is who we associate a government with, seems to be the way to go. RGloucester (talk) 14:25, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Ancestors of Sophie, Countess of Wessex

Dear Opera hat! Can you help me to complete the ancestry of The Countess of Wessex? However I just couldn't find the name of four of them and I'm here to ask you can you find the name of those four people? Keivan.f^Talk 16:24, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Line of succession to the British throne talk page

Hello, Opera hat. Could you share your opinion on the problem we are discussing here? Kowalmistrz (talk) 14:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of List of heirs to the English and British thrones

A tag has been placed on List of heirs to the English and British thrones, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

Expired PROD

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If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. – Allen4names (IPv6 contributions) 16:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

List of British Army full generals

I have responded to your questions at Talk:List of British Army full generals. Thanks for your help so far - it is always more encouraging to work in tanden than on one's own. Greenshed (talk) 19:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Did De La Rochefoucauld hold the rank of general? Greenshed (talk) 22:35, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes - I've just added a citation for the date of his promotion to the rank. Opera hat (talk) 22:51, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. If you've got the time, I was also wondering about Richard Temple, 1st Viscount Cobham. Did he go from Lt-Gen to FM directly or via Gen? Greenshed (talk) 21:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Greenshed (talk) 13:13, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of General Grubozaboyschikov for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article General Grubozaboyschikov is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/General Grubozaboyschikov until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:01, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Dukedom categories

Hi Opera hat

At the CFD on Dukedom categories, you critiqued the argument of those who opposed deleting the ambiguously-named "Dukedom of Foo" categories, but did not explicitly make a !vote.

I wanted to suggest that you might want to clarify which outcome you prefer, and make an explicit !vote. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:09, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested moves

Hello, can I made a suggestion for you to include other Duke articles recently moved by the user:Kauffner in you Talk:Dukes of Albret requested move? I don't think any other editor would object to that. Jack Bufalo Head (talk) 02:15, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Charles Cathcart, 8th Lord Cathcart

Hello, Opera hat, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on Charles Cathcart, 8th Lord Cathcart, appears to be directly copied from http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/colonels/046.html. Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted.

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on Charles Cathcart, 8th Lord Cathcart if necessary. MadmanBot (talk) 11:23, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to join MILHIST

Hello Opera hat! Thank you for your contributions.

If you would be interested in joining a group of editors dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history, please take a look at the Military history WikiProject—we would be delighted to have you! If you like what you see, please sign your name here, and a project coordinator will soon be along with a formal welcome. Regards, Anotherclown (talk) 23:07, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

RM

Hello, I recently started a Requested move here, maybe you're interested. Moagim (talk) 13:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Chimay

I have an outstanding question at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Royalty_and_Nobility#Marie_Joseph_Anatole_Elie which I believe is misnamed. No one has responded, would you mind taking a quick look? It seems it is actually Joseph de Caraman-Chimay the younger. If you don't have time, no worries, thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:16, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Mocher, Wynne etc

Thank you! Eddaido (talk) 04:20, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Royal dukedoms

What I meant here is, "this is what is generally done in succession boxes". It's a convention, like writing "The 1st Viscount Melville" (in the same box) when disambiguation is required, even though such a form has never, as far as I know, been in popular use. To return to the matter at hand, we don't use styles in succession boxes (except in orders of precedence), so "HRH The Duke of York and Albany" is out of the question, and "Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany" is used instead to indicate that he was a prince. Besides, you don't seem to object to "Prince George, Duke of Cambridge", which is given twice in that very box. Waltham, The Duke of 13:19, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Ten days have passed; am I to interpret your silence as agreement with my arguments, and I can therefore restore my edit without further ado? Waltham, The Duke of 19:47, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Another four days have elapsed without a response from you, so I have restored my edit. Waltham, The Duke of 15:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

January 2014

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