Numbriga kärumees

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Ilyushka ☃^Talk!_Contribs 10:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Chamber of Co-operation

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Chamber of Co-operation. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

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Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:12, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Chamber of Co-operation

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Chamber of Co-operation. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chamber of Co-operation. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:12, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Otto Strandman

Hey, what exactly is the difference between evoy and ambassador, I know that he was a "saadik", so why would ambassador be wrong? And he was indeed Minister of Court (kohtuminister). And it was indeed May 9, so I reverted your edit since all the corrections were either unnecessary or incorrect. H2ppyme (talk) 12:10, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Rank of Envoy (saadik) was used in the Republic of Estonia (as other small states, which earned not an Ambassador) before WW II. The present Republic of Estonia (as all other states nowadays) uses rank of Ambassador (suursaadik). He was Kohtuminister, the present Republic of Estonia (as also Estonian SSR since about 1960s) uses term Justiitsminister (in English both are translated as Minister of Justice). It was indeed May 8, when Otto Strandman's government was elected and this is published in the Minutes of Constituent Assembly, but not in Riigi Teataja (State Gazette). May 9 is the day, when the government meet the first time and made their first decisions, which are printed in RT. --Numbriga kärumees (talk) 12:20, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Minister of Court goes, aswell as the official date of May 9... I don't mind about the envoy thing. H2ppyme (talk) 13:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

You are welcome to check minutes of the Constituent Assembly here [1], and also official Directory of Estonia (Eesti aadress-raamat 1938-1939 = Directory for Estonia = Adressbuch für Estland = Адресный указатель Эстонии / [toimetanud A. Pullerits, A. Tooms] Ilmunud [Tallinn], 1938 (Tallinn : Tallinna Eesti Kirjastus-Ühisus)), what is not online. --Numbriga kärumees (talk) 13:33, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Official sites of the Government of Estonia and the President of Estonia state that it was May 9, also it only becomes legal once it has been published in the State Gazette, so May 9 should remain. And I really don't understand why we would have to use the most comfortable translation, to simplify and call it the Minister of Justice, while in Estonian it was clearly the Minister of Court. It's not like it's hard for people to understand what it means... H2ppyme (talk) 14:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

In State Gazette, 1919, is not mentioned, that May 9 was the day, when Strandman's government was elected. Under this date are published first decisions which this government made. May 8 is mentioned in numerous Estonian sources, you are free to chech them. Kohtuminister ja Kohtuministeerium are translated als Minister of Justice and Ministry of Justice in the official Directory of Estonia, 1938. Justiitsminister and Justiitsministeerium are russisms introduced during Soviet occupation. Estonian government in exile maintained the post of Kohtuminister until the very end. --Numbriga kärumees (talk) 14:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

As long as the page valitsus.ee states that it was May 9, this date remains, otherwise, we would have to move the date of Päts's final day in office aswell. I don't think it is wise to always use the pre war translations (though they might be useful sometimes). There is absolutely no need to translate kohtuminister into Minister of Justice, when Minister of Court is more direct translation and doesn't lose its meaning. H2ppyme (talk) 14:29, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

You are very clever.--Numbriga kärumees (talk) 14:37, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

No need for me to feel insulted, so I'll take that as a compliment. H2ppyme (talk) 14:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually, as a compromise, you can change the name into Minister of Justice, but just in the text next to it, you could mention the direct translation of "Minister of Court" as it differs from modern Estonian Minister of Justice. H2ppyme (talk) 14:49, 19 August 2011 (UTC)