Neutralstance

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September 2010

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to People's Liberation Army Navy, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Badger Drink (talk) 22:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Problems with upload of File:PLAAF INVENTORY L-15.jpg

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Problems with upload of File:PLAAF INVENTORY JF-17.jpg

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Problems with upload of File:PLAAF INVENTORY JH-7A.jpg

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System counts for PLA munitions

Greetings,

I sympathize your concerns with the atrocious out-of-date information on Wikipedia, and I appreciate your passionate attempts to rectify this. However (there's always one, isn't there?) no matter what we do, we must stay within the guidelines laid out by Wikipedia. That means providing reliable sources (as defined by Wikipedia) for information.

Personally, I am willing to give scramble.nl the benefit of the doubt (I realize that there have been a great deal of photographic evidence coming out of China in the past few years, and have very casually followed along). But as I said, what we are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to doesn't matter to Wikipedia. It has guidelines, we must follow them, or stop editing.

If no such site that clearly collates the data (like photos) and analyses it (this is what we're looking at, or what some article is talking about, and this is how it relates to this source or whatever), then perhaps one should be made. Perhaps, if I may be so bold, you may be the one to do it. It would take time, it would probably require drawing in a bunch of other people with a similar passion, but in the end it would be something that Wikipedia could actually use. It'd probably be of service beyond Wikipedia.

I have recently acquired a copy of The Military Balance 2010 by the International Institute for Strategic Studies, which Wikipedia should have fewer qualms with. (Apparently, the 2011 edition is out, or soon to be out. Would you happen to have a copy?) I intend to merge that data into the wiki at my earliest convenience. I will probably do the summary tables last, to avoid confusion about which value comes from which source, and to give me time to consider what allowances are needed for current sources. (For example, it seems the publication's raw count does not make a distinction between the J-11 and SU-27, while the sources currently used do. Then again, I may be misinterpreting what's written.)

On a side note: would you know where information can be found about the Type 053 frigate? I was going through that article but it suffers from a lack of sources; I fear it will be left with masses of "citation needed" when I'm done.

Hope to collaborate with you more in the future. Cheers!

- RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 14:37, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I understand that there have been enthusiasts who have been watching the videos and photos coming out of the PRC. But as is apparent, Wikipedia is not likely to accept the work of enthusiasts unless the work behind it is shown, and presented in such a way that Wikipedia can easily reference.

Just giving me the bundles of links to the photos and vidoes. and explaining what they mean, would not be adequate. At that point, it'd be my and your word against accepted Wikipedia practice, and we'd still be left without an acceptable way to reference it.

That's why I suggested you might put together some sort of website where all the pictures and videos can be seen, and where the enthusiasts' analysis can be evaluated by everybody. The big list that you posted on my talk page, that practically appears out of nowhere so far as Wikipedia is concerned, is exactly the sort of thing we need to avoid.

- RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 18:28, 1 July 2011 (UTC)