Myst3

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Magneto is Jewish?

You say that it was established 8 years ago that Magneto is Jewish. Do you have a reference for that? Cheers. — Estarriol ^talk 10:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Magneto's name

I got that from the most recent, the first issue of the Official Atlas. It's in the section on Poland. "The notorious mutant activist Magneto (Erik Lehnsherr) is believed to have been born in Poland..." And then the very next page, on Romania. "Georg Odekirk helped forge papers for Magneto (Erik Lehnsherr) at one point in his career..." Thanos6 (talk) 20:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, Thanos6. That reference is cool, because it confirms Marvel thinks Magneto was born in Poland. But it does not mean "Erik Lehnsherr" is Magneto's real name. Rather, it confirms that the forger Georg Odekirk is still considered a part of canon, and Odekirk clearly forged the name "Erik Lehnsherr" for Magneto. When something is added in parenthesis like that, it means that this is the name Magneto is known by. It doesn't mean this is his real name. In proper writing, you're not supposed to use the parentheses at all, but rather state the full legal original name, and

then say, "also known as." So, it's Magneto, also known as "Erik Lehnsherr." In any case, Georg Odekirk forged the "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinti Gypsy" papers for Magneto, that's what the forgery was. So by the very fact the Atlas mentions Odekirk, it means Marvel is standing by the name being a forgery. The Handbook entries on Magneto and his family, as well as the Marvel.com biography of Magneto, make it clear that Magneto's real name is unknown. Nothing about using the "Erik Lehnsherr" alias in parentheses after the name Magneto, in the Marvel Atlas, implies it's Magneto's real name, since the Odekirk story stands as canon, and Magneto's actual biographical entries in various Marvel handbooks and on the marvel.com site, confirm Magneto's real name is unknown. Thanks again for being kind enough to respond. I appreciate it. It's hard to communicate with people on Wiki sometimes.Myst3 (talk) 05:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Question though: Bearing in mind that I have not read the actual Odekirk story (I do in fact think it's ludicriously stupid), is there anyway in the issue that one could find a loophole that Odekirk simply created a false life for Mags to use, while the name of Erik Lehnsherr had already been his? Or does it flat out state that forger-boy created the name from whole cloth as well? (Let's get rid of his name, brilliant idea...talk about causing problems with things like the AoA) Thanos6 (talk) 07:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The Odekirk story was written by Joe Kelly. Mr. Kelly and Bob Harras and many people at Marvel genuinely wanted to fix the mistakes of X-MEN UNLIMITED #2, and restore Magneto's Jewish identity, which was the only identity that matched his history. The forged identity story was a good way to restore Magneto's correct ethnicity, and correct the historical mistakes. I personally would have wanted a much stronger correction. Why couldn't Marvel just say, Magneto is Jewish, was born Jewish, and he pretended to be a Sinti, and leave the name "Erik Lehnhserr" out of it. But apparently Marvel is still beset by certain editors and writers who don't want Magneto to be Jewish, and don't even want him to be a Holocaust survivor. So Marvel still won't do the most sensible, obvious, ethical, and enlightened thing, which is declare Magneto is Jewish, and always was, and deal with the name situation at a future time. As it stands now, the false identity includes Magneto's entire name and background. When certain editors or writers forget this, either naively or deliberately, it supports the anti-Semitic faction that has existed at Marvel for years, that does not want Magneto to be Jewish. The name of and by itself, is not that important. It's what the Odekirk story tied it to. Personally, I never liked the "Erik Lehnsherr" name -- it's a stupid name for Magneto, in my opinion. Be that as it may.

Here is a synopsis of the issue: The scenario begins with Gabrielle Haller lying on her bed working on a lap-top computer, writing the American Sen. Kelly, begging him to help find and secure the release of Charles Xavier. [This followed the events of ONSLAUGHT.] Sabra, the Israeli super-hero, a mutant and Mossad agent, suddenly appears floating in the air outside Haller's balcony doors. Haller has just pushed open the doors, saying, "You're too important to lose, Charles. I will see you ... FREE?" And Sabra says, "Sometimes, Ambassador Haller ... freedom, like the truth, is little more than an illusion. Don't you think."

Sabra has come to Haller with information. She says to Gabrielle Haller: "I'm sure you recall shocking the world when you announced that you had undeniable proof of Magneto's identity as Erik Lehnsherr. The undeniable has just been DENIED." Sabra then goes on to show Haller, and the readers, the file on a master forger named Georg Odekirk. In this file, apparently, is a computer analysis of the identity papers of Erik Lehnsherr, which shows that Odekirk forged those documents. Haller says, "He created Erik Lehnsherr? If this is true ... you must take me to him! He could be our only link to Magneto's true identity ... our last chance to stop him once and for all!" [Never mind that Haller is a fellow survivor and once defended Magneto in the World Court; now she wants to stop him "once and for all."]

But just as Sabra is flying Haller to the Transylvanian Alps, to meet with Odekirk, the scene switches to Odekirk, who is working on another forged passport, sitting in bed while his wife sleeps beside him. Suddenly Odekirk looks up -- he has a visitor. It's Magneto, in full costume.

Magneto is floating in the air. He surrounds Odekirk's bed with his magnetic energy, and uses his powers to keep Odekirk's wife unconscious. He says, "You failed me." Odekirk responds, "Please ... please, my wife ..." Magneto answers, "She will sleep the sleep of the innocent. She has done nothing ... but you ... YOU, my friend, have BETRAYED me." Odekirk protests his innocence, and then Magneto says, "Do you remember what you promised me the night I came to you, torn and filthy, nearly a quarter century ago? I was searching for my beloved Magda, determined not to lose her as I had lost so many others in the fire that engulfed all of Europe during my childhood. The authorities were in pursuit of me for the 'crime' of avenging my daughter's murder. I was willing to deny who I was ... everything that my family died for ... so that I could find one woman ... so that I would not be caged AGAIN. The Erik Lehnsherr fabrication was a convenient means of ensuring that. You swore that the forged papers were FLAWLESS, that your skills were unsurpassed ... but now, you have proven to be a liability. Your work has been called into question by my enemies, and they will trace Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte BACK to you." Odekirk protests, "That is impossible! That forgery was impeccable! My work is ..." Magneto answers, "It was not enough! You gave birth to Erik Lehnsherr, Odekirk. And tonight, you have killed him. My secrets shall die with him. All that remains now ... is MAGNUS." And Magneto kills Odekirk execution-style, with a burst of magnetic energy to the man's brain.

So, Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte is one forged identity, and Magneto denied who he was and turned his back on "everything" his family died for, to take that identity. It of course means, he is NOT a Gypsy, and has to be Jewish. But the name is tied in there, too. Many fans have speculated that the "Erik" part is a part of his real name. Also, we don't even know if "Magnus" is real. But he's had the name "Magnus" for longer than "Erik Lehnsherr" so it might date from his time at Auschwitz. I've often thought, would it make any sense for Magneto to pretend to be a Gypsy, which he obviously did (I don't even think he likes Gypsies all that much, despite Magda), but use his real name as a false name? But in this scene quoted above, Magneto says that Odekirk "gave birth" to "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte" and "the Erik Lehnsherr fabrication." For 10 years people still say Magneto is a Gypsy, when he is clearly not. And for 10 years, Marvel continues to use the "Erik Lehnhserr" name with various degrees of authenticity. Recently (for the last few years) Marvel has been much more consistent, thanks to Joe Quesada's determination that Magneto will be celebrated by Marvel as Jewish, and a Jewish survivor of Auschwitz.

We might both want to write Marvel for clarification. I know the HANDBOOK writers are totally great guys, and have totally supported Magneto as Jewish, and the Odekirk story, and consistently portrayed the "Erik Lehnsherr" name as false. I suspect this might have something to do with the upper management levels of Marvel, imposing the "Erik Lehnhserr" name on the comics, to match the movies. What makes me sad is that the comics (or the editors thereof) won't make the same commitment to reconfirming Magneto's Jewish identity while they might have to use the "Erik Lehnhserr" name. I know it's not cool to talk about anti-Semitism and Judeophobia, but both still exist, and there is still this prejudice among some comic book fans, editors, and creators; they really do not want Magneto's Jewish identity portrayed in the current comics. Also, Marvel management might be dithering around about this issue, because of their need to sell comics to countries where Jews are hated.

Also, I've pointed out to people many times, that "Erik Lehnsherr" is Magneto's adopted name. He has gone to considerable lengths to keep his real name secret for years. Like many activists, and terrorist or resistance leaders in history, he has adopted this name and it is the name everyone in the Marvel Universe knows him by. He uses it AS his real name, so in-universe stories where the name is used aren't as serious a mistake, as saying this is his real name in some official Marvel biography of Magneto.

Sorry to be so long-winded here. It's a very important issue, in my opinion. By the way, in the ATLAS, (which I can't get to next week), when they showed Poland, did they show where in Poland he was from, or just the entire country of Poland?Myst3 (talk) 17:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with long-windedness. :) Thanks for the in-depth response. I can't believe they're so worried about the whole Jewish thing. They have no problem with making Ben Grimm, Sabra, Kitty Pride, and maybe other heroes I can't remember Jewish, but are timid with Magneto? Absurd. All groups have both good and evil in them (that's why we have, say, the Arabian Knight and not just Fasaud and a bunch of terrorists). To portray Jews as superhumanly moral people who can't do wrong is almost doing them as big a disservice as if they were all shown as villains.

Personally I've always liked the Lehnsherr name, but even that aside, I feel that once you establish a name and history for someone, you should stick with it. That's ultimately why I stopped reading Wolverine years ago, all the "memory implants" and stuff like that annoyed me. I kept getting jerked around.

As for Poland, sorry, nothing specific. Thanos6 (talk) 19:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Magneto (Hunk Larken)

I noticed users DrBat and Myst3 are trying to erase information about Hunk Larsen, probably because the character is not related with Erik Lehnsherr.

Two points: - The article about Hunk Larken is written in the very same way of many other not related characters found in Wikipedia (e.g. Spider-Woman, Ka-zar and Powerhouse (comics)). If you want to keep Magneto's subject exclusive for Erik Lehnsherr, the article's name should be changed to Magneto (Erik Lehnsherr). - The information that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created an early version of Magneto, even not related to the modern character is relevant. And its also curious that the first character had an origin very similar to the Fantastic Four origin.Bios106037 (talk) , 21 July 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)