User talk:Mellk/Archive 4

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Archive 4

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

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Belarusian placenames

FYI, I started Category:Set index articles on populated places in Belarus. If you notice other Belarusian placename homonymy, please populate it or let me know. - Altenmann >talk 19:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I already created a few disambiguation pages e.g. Zamastochcha, should I convert those? Mellk (talk) 20:02, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

On note of the Belarusians flag

The rationale behind it was it's common use by Belarusian cultural organisations throughout the world

Here's some examples off of commons

Also, here are some links to google i could find of this flag being in use.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Belarusian+Community+and+Culture+Center+in+Vilnia/@54.6845275,25.2794498,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNZbeS3DK6OnbHquGWFNuUZ4VjfhW-zhCg3CW1C!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNZbeS3DK6OnbHquGWFNuUZ4VjfhW-zhCg3CW1C%3Dw86-h114-k-no!7i3024!8i4032!4m11!1m2!2m1!1sbelarusian+lithuania!3m7!1s0x46dd95299dce6091:0x47c240620a8c5a6a!8m2!3d54.6845218!4d25.279685!10e5!15sChRiZWxhcnVzaWFuIGxpdGh1YW5pYZIBEGNvbW11bml0eV9jZW50ZXLgAQA!16s%2Fg%2F11t47vt7z2?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Belarus+Orthodox+Church/@43.6610098,-79.4426915,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPUiB2u-UivPDCyHkhy9_B4v5s7_gdKAEbJrXIt!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPUiB2u-UivPDCyHkhy9_B4v5s7_gdKAEbJrXIt%3Dw203-h152-k-no!7i3264!8i2448!4m11!1m2!2m1!1sBelarusian+church!3m7!1s0x882b34416888695f:0x5dc50f7aa51a6b9b!8m2!3d43.6609694!4d-79.4428688!10e5!15sChFCZWxhcnVzaWFuIGNodXJjaJIBBmNodXJjaOABAA!16s%2Fg%2F1ym82kyhf?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/place/St.+George+Belarusian+Orthodox+Church/@41.9086203,-87.6908492,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipO0sRgbWx5Wx3V8ba3yrZz2oxmY-iS1Q-bfUgwi!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0sRgbWx5Wx3V8ba3yrZz2oxmY-iS1Q-bfUgwi%3Dw203-h270-k-no!7i3000!8i4000!4m11!1m2!2m1!1sBelarusian+church!3m7!1s0x880fd2a5b422b9a1:0x91e42364416eba04!8m2!3d41.9086152!4d-87.6910692!10e5!15sChFCZWxhcnVzaWFuIGNodXJjaJIBF2Vhc3Rlcm5fb3J0aG9kb3hfY2h1cmNo4AEA!16s%2Fg%2F1tdfnw2g?entry=ttu

I hope this is sufficient. 🤓 WeaponizingArchitecture | scream at me 🤓 07:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct that it is still widely used, particularly by diaspora, but I still do not think that this can be considered an ethnic flag. The template documentation for Template:Infobox ethnic group says: Please be cautious about using this: most ethnic groups do not have a strongly associated flag.. Perhaps you can check if any WP:RS refer to it as such? Thanks. Mellk (talk) 07:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Russo-Ukrain War

Hi. You said, "Due to WP:RUSUKR, editors who are not extended confirmed (<500 edits) are unable to make edits about the Russia-Ukraine war, but can still leave constructive comments on the talk page or edit requests.". it would nice if there was a Protected or semi-protected notice on the page. There isn't one that I could find.PaPiker (talk) 18:36, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Page protection is one way of enforcement, but it is not really feasible to protect all pages with such content. It also says: On any page where the restriction is not enforced through extended confirmed protection, this restriction may be enforced by other methods, including page protection, reverts, blocks, the use of pending changes, and appropriate edit filters. Mellk (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Sockpuppet

Sorry, I don't know how to say it for competent user, But it seems, that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cavide96 is a sockpuppet of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Andriyrussu Noel baran (talk) 15:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Seems possible, I was watching Viktor Tsukanov and noticed they restored the sock edit. Do you have any other diffs that could be used as evidence? If you are unable to, I can submit a new case at WP:SPI. Mellk (talk) 17:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't know exactly, but he made a typical editions (for Andriyrussu) with surnames and collided with another user: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cavide96. And all these editions, for example here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yvan_Dibango&action=history. Andriyrussu, after - 213.110.126.122 (maybe him), followed with his "reincarnation" Naxsy, and ended with Cavide96. Also Naxsy was blocked on 7 March and its created on 9 March ([[1]]). Noel baran (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks like the account was indeed a sockpuppet and is now blocked. Mellk (talk) 03:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the help! Noel baran (talk) 04:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I do not think they are going to stop creating new accounts soon so if you notice any new accounts you can open a new case at the SPI (or add to open ones). Mellk (talk) 09:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are right, is created a new one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BunicaValea Noel baran (talk) 15:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

But I see, that it was already reported at the SPI--Noel baran (talk) 15:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Vladimir-Suzdal chronicle(s)

Hi Mellk, I wonder if you would be interested in helping me write a new article on what is variously called the "Vladimir-Suzdal chronicle(s)", "Vladimir chronicle(s)", "Suzdal(ian) chronicle(s)", "Suzdal-Vladimirian Chronicle(s)", or "north-eastern Rus' chronicle(s)" (e.g. ru:Русские летописи#Летописи Северо-Восточной Руси)? I've been trying to set up a draft over here: User:Nederlandse Leeuw/SVC. But I can't really get a proper definition or scope of what it is, what it is or should be called, whether there was or is one or multiple "chronicles", and what we can say about it.

Currently, I think scholars are talking about essentially the same text covering the years c. 1177 to 1203, written in Vladimir on the Klyazma, probably in several stages (linguist Timberlake 2000 has identified 5 segments), and having been preserved in the Laurentian Codex (Lav.), the Chronicler of Pereyaslavl in Suzdal (ru:Летописец Переяславля Суздальского, LPS), the Radziwiłł Chronicle (Rad.), and the Academic Chronicle (Aka.). (There are probably later textual witnesses as well, but these 4 seem to be the most important). But elsewhere I am getting the impression that "Suzdalian Chronicle" just means everything in Lav. after the PVL, so 1117 to 1305. But the 1117 to 1177 content is usually identified as sharing a common ancestor with the Kievan Chronicle, scholarly known as the "Southern Rus' source", while the 1204-1284 seems to be a unique Laurentian continuation of the Vladimir-Suzdal chronicle, and the last few decades are commonly identified as copied from a lost Tver Codex of 1305.

All of this is a bit confusing to me, to put it mildly. ;) I've tried to visualise it here: User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Timeline Rus' chronicles manuscripts. I hope this can give some valuable insights into what we are talking about. Anyway, are you interested and able to help me write this article? I would imagine there is a lot of Russian-language scholarly literature on the topic that I cannot easily access and understand. If you're busy doing other things, that's fine. Cheers, NLeeuw (talk) 12:46, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I will have to look into it further but maybe the following is useful: [2] Mellk (talk) 12:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey, I decided to publish it under the title Suzdalian Chronicle. If you've got some additions, feel free to add them. Cheers, NLeeuw (talk) 05:36, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Boris Yeltsin

Hello, I propose not to delete the important information about Boris Yeltsin's presidency. Please, first you have to discuss it on a talk page of the article. FlorianH76 (talk) 10:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

The chronology does not make sense, first it says he ruled a hybrid regime with a superpresidential system then it discusses his initial reforms and the 1993 crisis with parliament, which happened before the superpresidential system was established. Also, none of this is discussed in the body. See MOS:LEAD. Mellk (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, maybe we can simply put this information after the sentence where the 1993 crisis is mentioned? FlorianH76 (talk) 11:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I already moved the text about super-presidential system to the section about the crisis. I also think saying he "ruled a hybrid regime" is a bit vague, though. Mellk (talk) 11:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

For example, look at these articles: Nursultan Nazarbayev, Ilham Aliyev. As you can notice in the articles about authoritarian leaders it is always mentioned what type of regime they established. Please, return the important iformation about Boris Yeltsin's political regime. FlorianH76 (talk) 22:15, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Medieval Russian writers

A tag has been placed on Category:Medieval Russian writers indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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My edits

Good day! Please tell me why you are canceling my edits? I will be grateful for an explanation in advance.--Alex091981 (talk) 13:14, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Please see WP:SEEALSO for guidance. Mellk (talk) 13:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I read the instructions. I seem to have added everything correctly, according to what was written: One purpose of "See also" links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics; however, articles linked should be related to the topic of the article.... All the links I have included are related to the topic. I'm not vandalizing, I'm adding links based on my editorial judgment and common sense.--Alex091981 (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

You are adding those links to articles that are high-level overviews of those entities. Moreover, the articles you created look like WP:POVFORKs of the respective history articles. If you disagree, you can start a discussion on the talk page, if you so wish. Mellk (talk) 15:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

April 2024 Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 11:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

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Alexander Bogomazov

Hello. Could you please look at this article and the currently ongoing edit war? 212.3.130.232 (talk) 20:38, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

This editor has for a long time been making unsourced and disruptive changes. If it continues and they do not respond on their talk page, please raise this on WP:ANI. Mellk (talk) 16:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Regarding removal of Category:Former capitals of Ukraine from some pages

While I agree with the removal of Volodymyr from the category (the Principality of Volhynia isn't exactly "Ukraine"), I don't see why Chyhyryn, Baturyn, and Hlukhiv should be removed. They were all capitals of the Cossack Hetmanate, which can be considered the first Ukrainian state. In some documents of the period (such as the Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk) the Hetmanate is actually called Ukraine. Shwabb1 (talk) 15:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

From my understanding, this category is a subcat of Category:Former national capitals which is intended for former capitals of modern nations. The first bulletpoint for not included in the criteria says:

• Former capitals of countries that no longer exist (see Category:Capitals of former nations), unless they were also capitals of yet-existing countries.

Since the Hetmanate went out of existence and those capitals did not become capitals of Ukraine later, I am not sure if they should be included. But the criteria is not as clear as I would like. Perhaps we can include those cities in Category:Capitals of former nations instead? Mellk (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, the criteria are somewhat ambiguous. Looking at the other "Former capitals" categories, I see that some of them include cities that don't even exist anymore (e.g., Tigranocerta from 1st century BC for Armenia). And Category:Former capital cities in India includes over 200 pages!

Including the capitals of the Hetmanate in Category:Capitals of former nations makes sense, but applying the same to all the other categories might take a while... Shwabb1 (talk) 17:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I am not opposed to including them again to Category:Former capitals of Ukraine (if we want to have a loose definition of "country") since it is not applied evenly but we would just need to include a hatnote explaining this (e.g. "this category is for former capitals of Ukraine since the establishment of the Cossack Hetmanate"). At least until someone sorts out the parent category. Mellk (talk) 17:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm fine with either option (Category:Capitals of former nations or Category:Former capitals of Ukraine+hatnote), as long as these three cities are presented as former capitals somewhere. Everything considered, I'm not certain which choice is better. Shwabb1 (talk) 17:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Please take part in relevant discussions when reverting

[3] and Talk:Crimea#Many_more_pro-Russian_protesters. Rsk6400 (talk) 13:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

You wrote in the edit summary: "Removing the misleading first sentence: Occupation was not caused by protests". But, the text does not say this. Therefore, you were reverted for using a misleading edit summary. Mellk (talk) 13:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Removal of significant wikibox info on Russian Civil War

Respectfully, what in God's name made you think to remove all the information about participants in the Russian Civil War from the wikibox? It's good and useful information, especially with the links to other pages. You should really stop this. Koss1919 (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

There was a RfC on the talk page that just ended. Here is what the closer wrote: The outcome of this RfC is that editors may put in option B, and after they have done so, may further edit option B to reduce the bloat. Editors are asked please not to restore option A or make edits that increase the rendered size or byte count of the infobox. We are not supposed to restore option A or add to the infobox because it was bloated. Mellk (talk) 18:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

July 2024

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to Name of Ukraine and this edit to Iryna Farion, you may be blocked from editing. TheWestBelongsToUkraine (talk) 21:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oh, then what? Mellk (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

He must be blocked Marcus Master (talk) 16:15, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, they were blocked. Mellk (talk) 16:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Mellk, why you without explanation deleting updates?

First of all, my updates were much more relevant to scientific point of view, you better leave comment why there is ignorant and propagandistic part of wiki could be left this way instead of using more objective and more scientific points. We can discuss via email, or add your comment what should be proved with link or so Marcus Master (talk) 16:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I would suggest to check the WP policies first. You keep making unsourced changes. See WP:V. Mellk (talk) 16:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

You already received several warnings for this as well, with the relevant links for guidance, but you are still repeating this behavior. Mellk (talk) 16:22, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Reverted Theofan Prokopovich edit

Why? As far as I understand, the modern name of the Ukrainian capital should be generally used. Furthermore, the linked sources also state clearly that he was also a Ukrainian, so including his name in Ukrainian is entirely valid. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 14:31, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Consensus is detailed here. Mellk (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

You also made several other unexplained and unsourced changes. Mellk (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

The only other changes besides Kiev -> Kyiv (which I now acknowledge was wrong) was clarifying what Theofan's name is in Ukrainian. That should definitely stay. One of the primary sources of the article, Ukrainian Encyclopedia online, directly calls him a Ukrainian statesman. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 18:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

OK, I have restored it and additionally added the Ukrainian romanization. Mellk (talk) 18:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that looks better. Mnohohrishnyi (talk) 19:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Russian SFSR

I have a concern over Vasily Utkin.

You see, all Russian biographical articles have an infobox using Russian SFSR, examples including Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, and Tsar Nicholas II.

As per Talk:Vladimir Putin/Archive 17#Geo links in infobox that engaging edit war over "Russian SFSR" by omitting as irrelevant option. By the time, it violates Wikipedia:General sanctions/Russo-Ukrainian War. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 10:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

The problem here is that Moscow Oblast in the context of the Soviet Union is the second-level administration division. It does not really make sense to include the second-level administration but not the first-level one (Russian SFSR). Today, it is a first-level administrative division, but not then. Either both or neither should be included. Mellk (talk) 10:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean, for example Yevgeny Prigozhin was born in Leningrad, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union is in the infobox, is this comprehensible? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Oblasts isn't included, only Soviet republics included until 1991 for infoboxes. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

At the time, Leningrad was a city of republican subordination, not part of Leningrad Oblast. A better example would be Sverdlovsk. It is best to say "Sverdlovsk, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union", or perhaps "Sverdlovsk, Soviet Union". But I think the first option is usually preferable, the second one where the republic is omitted might only work for capitals of republics or just Moscow. Mellk (talk) 11:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

See also Template: Infobox person where it says for birth_place parameter: For union republics, subordinate country can be shown. Mellk (talk) 11:48, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

You're right, also can applies to union republics of SFR Yugoslavia as well? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 11:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Since Yugoslavia was a federated state, I do not see why not. Mellk (talk) 11:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@Mellk and Firefangledfeathers: As a remedy for Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe, Mike Novikoff repeatedly omitting "Russian SFSR" to infobox on Vasily Utkin for not following Template:Infobox person/doc. Should we proceed to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement, after receiving this, and this discussion on Putin's infobox.

And by the way, should we designate this article as contentious topic? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 22:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Also for David Burliuk in 2022, for removing "Ukraine" from infobox it specifically violates the WP:GS/RUSUKR:

• Special:Diff/1026189310
• Special:Diff/1082936852

49.150.12.163 (talk) 23:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

OMG, it looks like WP:DUCK. Perhaps my old "friend" SwissArmyGuy is here again. With his poor English and total misunderstanding of what Arbitration Committee is, among other things. — Mike Novikoff 01:15, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@Mike Novikoff: For the last time, after making four WP:ANI discussions (1, 2, 3, 4) for a long content dispute that you edit as a contentious topic via Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Balkans or Eastern Europe. @Firefangledfeathers: should we proceed to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement? 49.150.12.163 (talk) 01:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

The duck quacks louder and louder, yet it even starts trying to hide. — Mike Novikoff 01:56, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@Mike Novikoff: since union republics of the Soviet Union are most important for biographical articles, for example, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was born in "Kryvyi Rih, Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union" is included the infobox, you can't omit it. 49.150.12.163 (talk) 02:02, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Not for people born in (or near) the largest Russian cities. Everybody knows what Moscow or Leningrad are, and everybody knows it's not Ukraine or Tajikistan. Infoboxes should be concise. On the other hand, specifying a small town such as Balashikha and omitting Moscow Oblast is wrong, because it forces the reader to follow the link for the town that they might not know. — Mike Novikoff 03:04, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

You mean Yevgeny Prigozhin, Alexei Navalny, are born in "Leningrad, Russian SFSR", also for Tsar Nicholas II died in "Yekaterinburg, Russian SFSR". 49.150.12.163 (talk) 03:57, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

It is best to start a more centralized discussion somewhere like Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Russia to get more opinions on the matter. Mellk (talk) 04:06, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I see your point, but would still look a little odd to me to say something like "Moscow Uyezd, Russian Empire". I am not sure if the MOS is strict about this, though, but this is just my opinion. Mellk (talk) 04:07, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Why not? It's better than a small town alone. As for the MoS, I can't find a rule for this specific case, but we do have MOS:NOFORCELINK. And RSFSR is just too broad, it says almost nothing about the location. — Mike Novikoff 05:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Kolky

Dear Mellk, thanks for your interest in the page about Kolky. I would have to disagree about the idea that my edit was not neutral. I have included an historical fact which is supported by the verified local source ("The Routes of the Generations"). Since Kolky is a Ukrainian village, I think it deserves to have the information from local sources and local scholars. It is quite unfair that my edit is being constantly deleted in favour of a particular viewpoint, which is not even fully historically correct and reflects only one nation's view of history. Please let the page about Kolky include also the factual information from local sources. Thanks & best regards Kjfkfwhefjheklw (talk) 11:19, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, the reference should contain the original title ("Маршрути поколінь"), the translated title should be in the trans-title parameter. Otherwise it is difficult to find the source.

Secondly, I could not find any other sources to support the statement that Polish and Soviet forces massacred the civilian population in November 1943 and ended the republic (the page number and quote is also missing). This is also a questionable source at best since the author simply glorifies the UPA and is more of a guide book. As a result, we should not be using it for exceptional claims. In general, reliable sources should be cited. Mellk (talk) 11:34, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Changing text in Grand Duchy of Finland

Hello, I've noticed your urgent attempts to change some words on Grand Duchy of Finland in particular from "ruled" to "within". I understand you might be quite upset seeing your edits being reverted, however unfortunately this not quite good to change wordings to make text less understandable. Although some of these changes were originally mine, there are also lots of text that's not written by me. You may also talk to other contributors as well.

With all respect, at this moment I don't see any reason for your changes, you surely can let me know more about why you think it needs to be changed, but changing text right away that has been on the article for a long time and checked by various contributors isn't the best option.

cheers Dresson354 (talk) 21:59, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

You made this edit on 1 August then tried to make the same changes today here and are now engaging in an edit war. Please join the talk page discussion instead. Mellk (talk) 23:23, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Your claims are disrespectful, I must report these kind of actions Dresson354 (talk) 23:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

If you are not interested in discussing your changes and would rather say that I might be "upset", then you are not helping. Mellk (talk) 23:39, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry, but it seems like the changes are made from your side. As said, you are changing text that was written long time ago thus went through many revisions. If you don't like the text with "ruled" words it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Using term "ruled", "reign" etc... is more accurate due to fact that historically the Grand Duchy (as name suggests) was under rule. For example why you don't change "Swedish rule" to "within Sweden"? Both are correct however "rule" is sounds and is more accurate. Especially in Grand Duchy case.

So I would like to have a compromise with you, as you seem to not like these changes. Dresson354 (talk) 23:46, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I reverted your edits and the following IP edits:[4][5] An IP from the same range also reverted me today just before you made a revert. I am not introducing my own changes here. Does that sound right? Mellk (talk) 23:51, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Could you please let me know what was wrong with these edits? Dresson354 (talk) 23:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

As I mentioned in the article talk page, the wording is awkward. Saying "Autonomous grand duchy under Russian Empire's reign" does not sound right. Such changes (along with "full independence") also give the false notion that Finland was some kind of independent nation to some extent. I do not think there is any dispute that until 1917, Finland was part of the Russian Empire, but was given limited autonomy. For example, the Russian constitution stated: "the Grand Duchy of Finland, while it constitutes an indivisible part of the Russian State, is governed in its domestic affairs by special institutions on the basis of a special legislation".

I also do not see any reliable sources that use the same kind of wording that you used. For example, A short history of Finland by CUP refers to it as "an autonomous Grand Duchy within the Tsarist Empire". Nested Identities: Nationalism, Territory, and Scale refers to it as a "Russian Grand Duchy". Mellk (talk) 00:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately you are totally wrong in this matter. Finland or Grand Duchy of Finland enjoyed full autonomy thus "semi independence". Not officially, but also widely speculated that Grand Duchy of Finland was more leaning towards personal union. You can check my words anywhere online, just to make sure you don't think I just invent all that.

Grand Duchy was an establishment that existed to some degree separately from Russian Empire, the Grand Duke was ruling both Russia, Poland at some point and Finland. That's why it is important to bring that in text. Otherwise this will just look as some sort of fully integrated region. That said in 1917 Finland became fully independent nation without any dependencies from any sides. That's from where the word independence comes from "depending on something".

So using "fully independent" or "ruled" is quite correct. However "within" for example does also suit if there's no other choise in your opinion. But your claim about Grand Duchy of Finland's status is quite wrong. So let's leave "within" for now and I'd suggest to check more about status of Grand Duchy. Dresson354 (talk) 00:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

sorry, to correct my words. Not Grand Duke but Emperor (Tsar) Grand Duke for Finland. Not for Russia. Dresson354 (talk) 00:26, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Of course, the Russian emperor ruled Finland (along with all the other places mentioned in the full title). I am not saying that "ruled" is wrong, but the wording used in those changes did not sound right in those places. I think for the status for example, it is best to keep this as simple as possible. Historical Dictionary of Finland for example says: "In 1809, Finland became a Grand Duchy of the Russian Empire" (p. 127).[6]

Now, there is some dispute about the level of autonomy. There is the book International Law Situated: An Analysis of the Lawyer's Stance Towards Culture, History and Community by Outi Korhonene which presents an interesting analysis of the 'Finnish Question' at the time. For example, it is mentioned that Finland was a province of Sweden for 700 years and whether it enjoyed any autonomy and to what extent is disputed, while the tsar established a Senate which was meant to govern according to the old laws but to what extent this meant autonomy is disputed. It is said that Finland was annexed to Russia in 1809 and that under the reigns of Alexander I and Alexander II, Finland developed autonomous governance structures but without any sovereignty. Then, the emperor tried to integrate Finland more closely, with details of this. Mellk (talk) 00:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. The Emperor indeed tried to integrade and fully annex Finland, however before these events it did enjoy hight autonomy that can be described as "semi independecy"

I understand that many sources say it differently. And that dispute of autonomy is due to fact that there were multiple waves where emperors as you mentioned tried to fully annex country. When Grand Duchy was established, Grand Duke or Tsar proclaimed Grand Duchy being "Nation amongst other Nations" then for contrast in 1900 to 1917 Russian government tried to fully annex with high russification attempts.

So lets conclude, I've heard your position and won't touch your reverts that you made. In future I will pay more attention on how text looks and sounds. However I am gonna politely ask to not revert harmless small edits in future unless they are bad or badly written. Dresson354 (talk) 01:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, in future, let us discuss any disagreements about wording? I will also move this discussion to the article talk page. Mellk (talk) 01:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

We may discuss in future as well, however let's first talk and not make undo all things at once. I am also contributing and spend my time on contributing Wikipedia. My edits are not vandal and they not bring any incorrect information.

If you don't like some wordings, you might correct them, but please don't undo all edit alongside. Dresson354 (talk) 09:29, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the most recent change, I would suggest "autonomous entity" or "autonomous polity" rather than "autonomous state" (since "state" often refers to a sovereign political entity). Thoughts? Mellk (talk) 13:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. However I don't think "state" refers to only independent nations. For example Taiwan is also considered as state or Scotland. In this sense the term state is widely used and more understandable, it also corresponds to country's historical status much better. So I would ask if you'd be okay to leave as it is? Dresson354 (talk) 17:04, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I am discussing first. Is there any RS that refer to it as an autonomous state? The examples I mentioned above simply say grand duchy. Mellk (talk) 17:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

yes, many sources do refer as Grand Duchy, because it's the official historical definition.

After quick search I found an example where the term "state" is used [7]https://www.swedishfinnhistoricalsociety.org/grand-duchy-of-finland-1809-1917/

Of course we can use term "grand duchy" instead "state", but I think the wiki article will be then cluttered with the same word "Grand Duchy". Dresson354 (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Now, even if we agreed with "full autonomy", it would still be more concise to say "grand duchy within the Russian Empire", do you agree? Mellk (talk) 00:59, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

As I stated in the message above, I do agree. But please read last sentence. Dresson354 (talk) 01:14, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Sarmatism (pseudohistory) - set up for deletion

The sources there do not correspond to content. The author tried to create a concept out of nothing, it is telling the entry failed to pass on Lithuanian Wikipedia itself. It is clearly an unencyclopedic entry of no relevance, breaking WP. I would be eternally thankful unto You if you helped me out in this process. 83.6.202.147 (talk) 18:33, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I restored the hatnote because you did not give a reason for removing it and it is needed for disambiguation. You are also not using AfD correctly. See WP:AfD. Mellk (talk) 18:35, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Could you please explain ?

Hi Mellk, could you please explain why you accused me of WP:OWN here and WP:STONEWALLING here ? I'm under the expression that your behaviour falls under WP:ASPERSIONS, especially since you made other accusations against me in the past. Please remember to concentrate on content according to our talk page guidelines. Rsk6400 (talk) 08:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

You can start by responding to my concerns on the article talk page rather than continuing to make disputed edits. Mellk (talk) 15:12, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

That's not an answer to my question. Also: How can an edit be disputed before it has been made ? Rsk6400 (talk) 07:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I explained my reasoning on why we cannot use a particular source, you ignored this, undid my edits, and continued to make edits to the article. One of the reasons you were topic banned from Ukrainian language was due to stonewalling, and you are doing this again. Mellk (talk) 10:58, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

No, you didn't look closely enough at my edits. You claimed that a Yale (sic) lecture by Timothy Snyder could not be used as a source. Before I removed the POV-tag, I added another source[8]. You restored the POV-tag and it still stands, so where is the stonewalling ?

Some hours ago, you criticised a third editor for watching your talk page[9], but it seems you are watching mine, too. It is true that the admin who banned me thought that I was stonewalling. But also admins can commit errors, and several editors (including myself) think I wasn't. You can check for yourself. And you should also explain why this is no PA. Rsk6400 (talk) 08:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I explained the reasoning on the talk page. You used this source (and are still using it) for POV statements. You still did not address this. Therefore, to say that you are not collaborating on this front is not a personal attack.

I watch the page Ukrainian language so it was very obvious that this dispute escalated to dispute resolution then AE. I have avoided joining discussions on that article recently for obvious reasons. I also did not criticize the other editor for simply watching my talk page. Instead, they decided to jump in to write some bullshit, then went to the actual discussion for the first time to copy-paste it there. Mellk (talk) 09:09, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Swedish instructors KIA in Poltava hit

relevant losses on Poltava 2A00:23EE:2178:EF9:EC3E:4E1B:10B6:3F89 (talk) 22:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source for this claim. Mellk (talk) 22:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Ukrainian shah

Hi. I've noticed you canceled my little edit in the article. As I know you can read Ukrainian. There's the etymology of the word "shah" in the article in the Ukrainian-language section. I was just trying to remove unconfirmed information that contradicts the known origin of the word. All the best, Myrczyk (talk) 23:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Please see WP:CITE if you wish to change this. This needs to be cited to a reliable source. We are not using sister projects as reliable sources. Mellk (talk) 23:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

So where are the sources for the claim that shah has anything to do with the shilling? Myrczyk (talk) 23:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

This has been in the article since 2005 and I have not seen any previous dispute over this. I have started a talk page discussion here. I think it is worth asking the creator about this first. Please feel free to add your input there. Mellk (talk) 23:48, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Please patrol out the page. Thanks in advance. Myrczyk (talk) 08:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, thanks. Mellk (talk) 11:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

French places with German names

Not that I think it's a good faith argument but I was curious about the idea, so I checked Alsace. It has no less than two German names with three spellings. The city of Strasbourg has two as well. Strasbourg's is a more specific dialect, so I'm close to learning something. CMD (talk) 03:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

They would also be disappointed to learn that there are strong German influences there as well. Choucroute garnie is a popular dish. Mellk (talk) 11:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Interesting, I'll have to try it. CMD (talk) 11:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Native names of cities: Dublin & Vitebsk comparisons

Hi! How are you? Could you, please, explain your edit here towards Belarusian city, that has only one native name, which is in Belarusian, as it is in Belarus? At the same time there is no misunderstanding towards Dublin in the same conditions. Best wishes from Belarus,--W (talk) 12:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not understand your comparison with Dublin. Russian is an official language in Belarus and there is no consensus to remove such names. Mellk (talk) 12:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

National symbols of Russia

Do you read and write russian ? I do. That the reason why i will undo the cancelling of my verified and verifiable contributions regarding

- the pix of the Constitution of the Russian Federation because: 

Конституция Российской Федерации = Constitution of the Russian Federation

- National emblem - Coat of arms of Russia 

please notice the double headed eagle was literally espoused by Ivan III marrying Sophia Palealog in the XVth century.

Thank you for understanding that facts and figures matter Cordi-Allemand (talk) 10:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

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Boyars

Hello, @Mellk, why did you deleted my changes in boyar article? This changes aren't relevant enough to require reliable source. Kievan Rus' and Muscovy are obviously different countries, so should be putted into two different categories. Бояри is the spelling used both in Ukrainian and Russian. Shahray (talk) 09:35, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

All your edits do not follow WP:V or WP:NPOV. Mellk (talk) 10:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Do you think "supreme Ukrainian rulers of Kievan Rus'" follows WP:NPOV [10]? Not even fringe sources use this kind of wording. Mellk (talk) 10:32, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Since Supreme rulers of Kievan Rus' quite literally named themself as "Grand Princes of Kiev"(Modern Ukraine), and Central Ukrainian lands served as core of this state, we can simply name them Ukrainian. Similarly how principalities of Moscow, Tver, Ryazan or Novgorod are named russian. Shahray (talk) 10:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

And which sources support this view? Mellk (talk) 10:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Support what exactly? If you mean the core of Rus', then here's a text in the Wikipedia article:"When the Varangian princes arrived, the name Rus' was associated with them and came to be associated with the territories they controlled. Initially the cities of Kiev, Chernigov, and Pereyaslavl and their surroundings came under Varangian control." Someone even tried to delete this quote, but editors replied:"The two sentences cited are supported by two reliable sources, and there is no reason to delete them. It is true that Kievan Rus' had more than just these three principalities, but it is also clear these three were the most important in its earliest phase.

About the map: The relationship of Novgorod with early Kievan Rus' is debated (Holmgårdr having a prominent place in Old Norse sources, while some suggesting Veliky Novgorod was the capital of Rurik's realm, although Rurik's historicity is in dispute), but in Rus' chronicles it usually was not grammatically or geographically considered part of the so-called "Rus' land" (Роуськая земля), in which Kiev, Chernigov and Pereyaslavl were the central patrimonies, while Novgorod had to pay tribute to Kiev".

If you mean the title of Grand Prince of Kiev, search for the article "rulers of Ukraine".

Maybe you thought "supreme Ukrainian rulers" means that Ukrainians are superior to somebody, but it really just means that princes that ruled in Ukraine were also supreme leaders of Kievan Rus'. So it doesn't changes the neutrality, it might be oversimplification but again, Novgorod is sometimes referred as russian principality. So it's not a mistake, but I think I used this wording only ones somewhere, how does this relate to boyar article or other articles? In boyar article changes aren't relevant enough to need a source, Kievan Rus' and Muscovy are obviously different countries, and there's few corrections in etymology, so if you don't mind I'll return this changes. For other articles, I will add sources later, but again why would this be such an issue if large parts of them are unsourced anyway? Shahray (talk) 16:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

The policy is WP:NOR. If you cannot find reliable sources that fully support such statements, then the statement should be removed. Mellk (talk) 16:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

So remind me again, how does this relates to boyar article or other articles? Shahray (talk) 16:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

You wrote some paragraphs explaining why 'supreme Ukrainian rulers of Kievan Rus' is fine based on original research and does not need a citation to a reliable source that fully supports this statement. I have already told you that your edits do not follow WP:V, WP:NPOV and now WP:NOR. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with these policies first before you continue to restore these edits. Mellk (talk) 17:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

"Supreme Ukrainian rulers" isn't featured in most of my edits anyways, it's just that you asked, I explained. Are you sure it is original research, list of Ukrainian rulers? To other articles, of course, I will add a source and only then revert the change.

In Boyar article, I don't see where there's a need for additional source, and how "supreme rulers" relates to this? Shahray (talk) 17:39, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

There is no such term as boyar rada. Please start a talk page discussion instead. Mellk (talk) 17:48, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Before this change, it was called "Duma" which is an organ in Russia, not in Kievan Rus'. Rada is just a general slavic term for council. You can just leave it as Boyars Council. Shahray (talk) 18:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

'Boyar duma' is a modern term, but it is used in scholarship to refer to these councils. There is no such term as 'boyar rada' in English-language scholarship. Again, please start a discussion on that article's talk page instead. Mellk (talk) 18:02, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Source? If it is used, then you can just delete a link for russian duma. Shahray (talk) 18:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

"As a traditional institution, the Duma (meaning 'deliberation') had precedents in certain deliberative and advisory councils of pre-Soviet Russia, notably in the boyar dumas (existing from the 10th to the 17th century) and the city dumas (1785–1917)".[11] From now on, I will only respond on the article's talk page. Mellk (talk) 18:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind I found a source. In that case you can just leave it unchanged, do you have any other questions about my changes? Shahray (talk) 10:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't have intention to create new topic in article's talk page, my changes are just small obvious corrections Shahray (talk) 16:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Why did you deleted my changes again? If you don't have any other questions about the changes then why delete them? Shahray (talk) 15:58, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Your edits are not neutral. You were told to start a talk page discussion there. I will revert any future comments you make here. Mellk (talk) 16:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Tinibeg

Tinibeg Wasn't Muslim 37.154.94.209 (talk) 16:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Please provide a source that supports your change to Christianity per WP:V. The mention of being urged to convert is not good enough. Mellk (talk) 16:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Name

Hello @Mellk, you have a lot of expertise in this field, so I wanted to ask you a question here. Was "Tsardom of Russia" the formal name of the entity, or is it just the common name? Also what happened to "Great Russian Tsardom"? Did it fall out of use? PadFoot (talk) 12:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

ru:Русское царство#Название will explain this better. Under Peter the Great the official name was changed to 'All-Russian Empire'. Mellk (talk) 12:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. PadFoot (talk) 12:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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Undoing your changes

I noticed I am not the first one to be harrassed by you after fixing Ukrainian cities spelling. Since your remarks tend to be intimidating, discriminating and biased - I've never seen you complaining about someone using Russian spelling instead of the proper Ukrainian spelilng for a Ukrainian place, and since you've never responded to my request to undo your reverts, I've started undoing your reverts on my edits myself. If you're interested in having a discussion, we can go article by article, but it has to be a constructive dialog, ideally with some moderation because I have doubts about you're acting in good faith. Indiscriminantly reverting all my changes is not nice and this is not how you're supposed to welcome new contributors to the community. Kyiv citizen (talk) 00:02, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

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