Marathi mulga

Your input is appreciated a lot, kindly discuss on discussion page before deleting any edits.

New line has been added where it is explicitly mentioned that the concerned person has experienced emotional difficulties after going through the method, this is an important discussion which people seeking information must be aware of, i hope you do not have any problems in letting people know that there are some harmful side-effects possible due to this method. This is an information world and we at wiki must strive hard to express as much information as possible, without taking any side. Decision should be left to those who seek information, we must only provide that information, this is what is the essence of wiki, and as a responsible editor of wiki, I understand you also agree to it.

<< I'm all for diversity in discussion. >>

Welcome

<<

But in all my years as an abhyasi, I've experienced these physical side effects just once. 

>>

Hence it is more then obvious that there are emotional as well as physical problems associated, also process is not smooth and degree to which these problem may occur varies with people to people, but they will be present is agreed between us, hence link which discribes these problems must be visible to people, so that they can decide and judge for themselves

<< It's the same with the hundreds of abhyasis I've exchanged notes with over the years. These problems are few and far-between. I have no issues with hilighting these issues as long as the complete picture is presented: >>

Since these problems exist hence for all new members, it is must that they all should be aware of possible consequences.

<< These problems occur rarely >>

But we agree that they do occur

<< They almost never show up once the abhyasi has become regular with his or her practice >>

Here we are talking about initial stage and not thereafter, this perticular section informs about problem which users will face when they start this method.

<< One swallow does not a summer make. Being responsible also means being careful not to make it sound like this is a mainstream example because it isn't. >>

Since you yourself have experienced this problem hence you should not have any objection by placing this link, once again kindly allow information to reach people, this is just information which must be made available by poeple like us, to those who seek information. none of us here are advertisment agent for any group but sensible editors who keep and unbiased view of matter at hand.

You had asked for a reference as where Mr Chari claims himself to be God, and that has been provided, now why are you dealeting the fact ? pls discuss.

Reply to Marathi

Hi Marathi...I will reply in the Sahaj Marg discussion page for all to see...

Thanks

Don.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4d-don (talk • contribs) 18:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

Reply to Marathi by 4d-don April 17, 07

Hi Marathi...

I agree with you that the article is less "balanced" now than before, but it will find it's level just like water. I would not suggest that you add more "anti" SRCM but that you try and change the manner of the statements of the "anti's" and add some "pro" SRCM(tm) of the Chari group, which I presume you are. Much of the "anti" SRCM(tm) is directed at Chari and the SRCM(tm) registered in California by the SRCM Shahjahanpur and the "ex-abhyasis" "anti's" who see the whole SRCM as a cult of a PERSONALITY and a MISSION. (I add myself).

It is not a method just like Christianity is not a METHOD, but a faith based religion with dependency on the preceptor (priest), and the Master (Christ) to get to ONE (God the MALE). Christians depend on the priest (preceptor) and the structure (Mission) of HOLY MOTHER THE CHURCH to bring one to HEAVEN. At it's origins, all (faith-based) religions were "cults" and then some achieve power and become the "OFFICIAL" and accepted religion with all it's cultic powers increased and its inner corruption intact. Some have only been exposed in recent times.

Those who go to "meditation", go for "spirituality" or a "system" and not religion. They do not go to become "dependent". Faith-based institutions such as "sahaj marg", which is not "raja yoga", but a bastardization of it (eliminating tapas and yamas), are now more and more seen as "cults" and Sahaj marg "adherents" will have to live with that. Faith, according to J. Krishnamurti, that leads to "violence"...I agree. One sees it in Sahaj Marg. War is a lack of "logic". Seperation and schisms are a lack of "spirituality".

I just saw the last edits and can suggest that a smaller number of edits, limited to a specific few sections, would be less "aggressive" and would be considered less "arrogant", and might bring a less agressive reaction. (karma?..lol)

It seems that some of the other editors feel "attacked" when there are too many edits in one post and tend to reject them all, where they do not seem to with a softer approach. jmho...lol

Don't give up, as sometimes, even in WIKI as in "commercialization" or general acceptance of new ideas or products, the rule of 3 works. The first reaction to something new is to "ignore" or "reject". The second is to "analyse" as one feels; "I've seen this before"... And then the acceptance comes (often) on the third "impulse" if the product is beneficial or the statement (in this case) is beneficial and/or true

In the case of this article, where the factions are entrenched and "emotionally" involved, it could take longer but we have ETERNITY as in Spirituality, the JOURNEY is the THING.

My allusion to my wife is that to invite "other religions" to meditate with a group that is so obviously divisive in itself, would be met with incredulity. Even wives and husbands are "seperating' over this group that makes their followers "detached" from the problems of family life such are MATES (wives, husbands, family, friends, neighbour...) So those inside Sahaj Marg tend to "ignore" the problems of thier own surroundings and get into "relating" to the Master, the Mission and "only the mission". According to Chari, even the Method is to be sacrificed to "OBEDIENCE". When you love the MIssion and the Master more than the husband, and depend on the Preceptor to get you to the ONE rather than the husband, then, that relationship is over. JMHO

I will continue to syntax and spelling so as to avoid "arguments" due to misunderstandings of syntax and grammar. I will also do small edits so as not to confuse other's debates. But I will add my 5 cents here and there...

Have fun and remember that we are "safely tucked" inside the ONE, where we live...

4d-don

reply to Marathi April 17,07

Hi Marathi...

Good for you...

I meditated way back in the late 70's early 80's until Babuji died (under strange circumstances) and the take-over by Chari (and his gang of Western preceptors). You can read Michael's blog if you want the feeling at that time, specially in his "comments" by other older abhyasis. There are some other comments by older abhyasis on the French Blog of Elodie (Alain, Christian, etc) and some others in the "Tell me Truth India" where Navneet Kumar, Babuji's grandson who is now "in court" with Chari, goes and replies to all questions.

I left after meeting Chari on his 1rst visit after Babuji's death and "feeling" him.

I am not a "betazoid" (Star Trek) but I have met many "great" men, including what I consider "saints" such as Jean Vanier and other Christian "liberation theologist', who take on the "structure" of the "HOLY ROMAN Catholic Church" and all that involves. Chari was what "liberation theologist" say Christ was not: the Plutocrats taking over Religion in retirement. The "power addicts" controlling RELIGION is not new in my life as a Catholic where I witnessed "Raw un-bridled Power" and it's many abuses.

I am duty-bound to stand up and not be silent in the memory of so many "kids" who were abused, as I see the same structures being built by the "Spiritual" movement such as "the Lalaji Memorial OMEGA School" which is now becoming a "Boarding School", exactly what I fought for many years to "expose" and "bring down".

The Christian Brothers and Sisters and their "pedophile magnet" Boarding Schools for the "very young", are now gone from Easter Canada. The Brothers and Sisters have been "kicked out" of the small towns where the abuses took place. They are not even allowed to 'retire" in the town, but had to leave town and "hide" in other parts of the country. There were not just one or two but "hundreds of primary, secondary, high, colleges, Universities, and their "boarding schools" where the more horrific abuses ended up in many suicides, shattered lives and societal problems, (alcoholism and drug abuse, sexual and physical abuse, etc) ...that is not to mention the abuses by the Priest in the Churches, and the many abuses in the "Youth Programs" and the "Value-based Education" programs.

That is why I spend so much time exposing any sign of "imbalance" of power by faith-based "religions" and the "Brothers and Sister" sets of the "spiritual movement" when they start to focus on KIDS after gathering enough women to do their PR job. In the Catholic religion, it is the women who bring the children, raise the money for the "special" ones (victims), and do all the voluteer work of cleaning, and other duties so the money could be focussed on schools, and "medical" facilities. Not spirituality but business of "education" and Medicine, and relgion .... A great imbalance of power in a society, specially a stratified society with an established class structure. Education uses "obey", Religion uses "love". In the hands of the pedophile, that is a very powerful weapon to use on a child.

The SRCM which was a small meditation group, is now a "cancerous" growth that is focussing on KIDS regardless of the direct warnings of Babuji and other deeper thinkers and philosophers such as Dr. KC Varadachari who was to be Babuji's successor until his death and Chari. Meditation was limited to 18yrs old and kids are to be out of the meditation room. Now kids 9yrs old are taught to meditate by SRCM (Simgapore). Babuji then appointed a committee including his son to assure the lineage in his family, according to some 'inner circle" members (and Umesh and now Navneet) I was not that close to the POWER but Babuji was "humble" at least in "show" and were were "special" to him as he was to us. Not just him but many were "special" to me also. It was not a "theocracy" then where the Master was 'worshipped" as today. I was just a "fellow pilgrim" of Babuji and never called him MASTER, but if asked who was my Master, I would laughingly say: "the short "hookah" smoking guy in the corner over there. There was no "ego" back then and we just felt that we were "just doing our duty" and numbers was not the name of the game.

Sorry to be "long winded"...

4d-don.

Reply to Marathi on 4d-don Talk April 20, 07

Hi MM

On the Prayer sections, the SRCM(shahjahanpur) group added that in there and they "insisted" through an "edit" revert debate that the Text has to be kept "intact" as if it was a "coded message" and could have "deliterious" implication if a word was changed. I debated that with them and then an admin, sided with me and did a few reverts and as they insisted, I Simply referenced to their litterature that they claimed to have the right to do, and kept the quote intact.

You might get a debate re-opened if you change the wording in that section but you can if you want to. That section does not reflect badly on SRCM(tm) Chari, nor the SRCM (Shahjahanpur) and other "exposers" have left it alone until now...I think it's a negative reaction to "too many edits at once"...People are easily overwhelmed these days of "information overload" and react emotionally so as not to "waste time"...Unlike us "old farts" who have time on our hands and the girls don't find us attractive anymore...lol  ;-0

It will settle down if we put LOVE and COMPASSION in the equation and see where the "non-acceptance" really lies. In the case of many who stay here, they have been hurt by SRCM and others are "defending" their turf so are also "emotional"... Let us move away from the testosterone driven "red end of the emotional spectrum" toward the more compassionate and loving "green "Heart regions" and into the "blue spectrum" of LOGIC, since we are using WORDS...

This is fun...

Keep on the Sunny Side of LIFE!!

4d-don

To MM

Hi,

I have seen your POV on SM discussion, i am more then eger to discuss things with you, and do hope we will come to a comclusion, based on some logical facts, you have raised few good points and i appritiate you for that, unfortunatly i am still travelling, will be back in US soon, will discuss thereafter.

Have a nice time, and enjoy life, these discussion are also part of that only. hope you understand.

Regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shashwat pandey (talk • contribs) 04:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

To MM

Here is the complete text you had read only one section..

Dear Harbans Ji, You have raised a very important point here, i am glad that you have raised this. I have a copy of Quran which i took after i was attacked by a muslim mob coming out from Friday Namaz around 4 yrs back, that incident had forced me to understand the philosophy of religion and i have done a critical reading of Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism after that, i find that Quran is source of all the the militancy we are facing today as it justifies killing of non-muslim, i had a debate over Islam and have highlighted certain facts like Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89 If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.4:91 There are many such verses in Quran and Hadith which directs muslims to kill non-muslims also to impose a tax on non-muslims (Jijzya) etc. Even though i do not agree with contents of Quran but still i have placed that book in the same respectable place where i have kept Geeta and Vedas etc. Why ? Simply because if i do not agree with something i have no right to insult the faith of others, since i do not like to hence i do not follow it, but why should i burn it that too publicly ? what would you prefer to call this act ? Since i do not like Islam, i had invited people to debate over it and have asked them to inform me what is correct, till now no-one has been able to show me Islam is a tolerant religion and preaches peace. Now if i have some political target to achieve or if i have to gain something out of it only in that condition anyone would like to insult faith of others. Debate and prove your point why indulge in something like burning and teach violence and hate towards other? That too depending on your own view on what happened before It is only because seeds of division was needed to be sown, otherwise if India is united how can we have so many political parties based on different religion, caste, area, language, and so many other things. Rulers will never want that people of India should ever get united otherwise their existence itself will be under threat and they just can't rule us anymore. When you talk about atrocities before independence, don’t you feel it was British who were responsible, entire Indian population was suffering, why to point out towards only one community ? if you talk before British it was muslims for more then 500 yrs, entire hindu religion was suffering. Again why to point towards only one community ? do you believe there were atrocities on Dalits during hindu rule ? and this hate and division of India today is because what happened 800 yrs ago ? pls think independently and logically. Just because some-one burned a book sometime back you dislike it ? have you read it personally ? pls do it, and then decide if it is right or wrong, reading itself will clear all your doubts. You must also understand here that first thing any invading army does to a conquered nation is to burn the traditional book and destroy their history, all that they want is to cut the people from their root so that they have no history and can be ruled. This is what Aurangzeb tried to do, he burned all Hindu book in Nalanda and Taxkshila university, and they were burning for more then 6 months. That was the biggest blow to Hinduism, but still it has survived because all the Veda's and sculptures were traditionally learned by heart and hence there is no scope of destroying a rich and divine culture that we have. Those people are Brahmans as per hindu tradition who have learned the Vedas, one who knows at least two Vedas was given the title of Diwedi, those with knowledge of three Veda’s were called Trivedi and one with four were called Chaturvedi, Pandey Shukla etc were associated with learning of other books. Brahmanhood is not by birth but by what knowledge you posses. If you learn the veda’s you are a pundit, thats it. If you feel that there is something wrong in Manu Smirit, i would request you to be a free thinker and make decision independently, read that book, understand it and then decide. This is the sole purpose of my debate with Pratap.

When a person gets killed or a women gets raped why is it that a suffix is added? a dalit women is raped or a dalit is killed, is that person not humen ? why are you trying to give a section of society a different place then humen, you are not helping any cause all that you are doing is drowing a line between humen and dalit, what if a brahman (as per your thinking) gets raped or killed, what do you say a person got killed or someone else is killed ?

Best Regards Shashwat Pandey

Harbans virdee <harbans_virdee@...> wrote:

Shashwatji. Regarding your email to Pratap Tambay about Manu Smruti.I am sorry to see that you are trying to justify so called Manu Smruti.I am sure u know that Great son of India Baba Sahib Dr.Ambedkar burned your so called Manu Smurti on 27 th Dec 1927. Why didn't any Hindu like yourself tried to discuss with with Baba Sahib and clarified ? Our Master didn't stop there in one of his great book " ANNIHILATION OF CAST " he said " Veda contain nothing but tomfoolery " Why your forefathers didn't arrest him ? There is very good book in Hindi " HINDUISM DHARM JAN KLUNK " why don't you try to discuss with the writer Mr.L.R.Balley living in Jalandhar,Punjab. Myself finished one book in Punjabi "JAT MITAOGA TO TUMHEN MITAYA JAVYGA " i am giving three stories one, Your so called Rama murdering our forefather Rishi Shambooka.2nd in Mahabharata Brahmin Dronacharia chopped right thumb of " EKLAVYA " third one is also same that if we get chance to come up we can not use the chance.Every story has 10 pictures with them. If you are still not happy,please read one of your brother Prof Surinder Ajnat's books such as " Critics of the Vedas " in English or in Hindi " HINDU ITHAS JAN HARON (not flowers, Defeat) KI DASTAN ". You can get book or Baba Sahib " RIDDLES OF HINDUISM " in this there is true picture of your RAMA and KRISHNA.

With regards H.L.Virdee

Rfc/user for Shashwat pandey

Dear Marathi mulga,

Users Sethie and Reneeholle have filed an Rfc for user Shashwat pandey.

Because you have contributed to either the Sahaj Marg page, the Shri Ram Chandra Mission page, or both, we would appreciate it if you could provide your comments of this user at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Shashwat_pandey

Here are the guidelines for responding [1]:

• Other users can endorse a view (under 1.7), by adding their signature to the list after that view. Along with their signature, they may wish to offer a clarifying comment of one or two sentences, for example if they agree with all but one particular part of the view. Longer responses than that should probably go into their own "View" section.
• Anyone can endorse any view, regardless of whether or not they are outside parties, inside parties, or even the subject of the RfC. Ideally, there will be some view(s) that both sides of the involved parties can endorse.
• You may endorse as many views as you wish. You may also endorse the original RfC statement (under section 1.7), and/or the subject's response (under section 2).

Thank you for your time. It is greatly appreciated! 18:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)