User talk:Maheshkumaryadav/Archive 2

Respect to the community views

I would like to share that after retrospecting and reading views of some contributors that i respect. I would be more careful to the community views and consensus. Within Wikipedia with so may different persons with different motives, it had been difficult for me to understand when individual users become community. I shall be taking the suggestions more seriously. In future, i intend to improve the articles that i had started, and shall avoid mass stub creation. It would be better for me to work with some mentor. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 17:46, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

• After listening to the community views, I have no complaints for the deleted articles created by me. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 17:57, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
• I am trying to change the attitude, it had been a bigger problem then edits. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 17:57, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
• I intend to show the changes not only in my words, but also through my actions also. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
• You would see my future articles more Notable, Verfiable, with Neutral Point of View and extra care for copyrights. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

You write: "...After listening to the community views..."????? We've been speaking for ages. Half a dozen editors writing "stop". We can help. You just ignored us all. Now there's a community ban proposal underway, and you "suddenly get it"???? That's pretty sudden. I have not one ounce of belief, faith, or trust left. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:10, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

And to top it off, you have the unmitigated gall to waste my time and that of everyone else's on yet another pointless ANI discussion. This is as far as I am going with you. You are out of here. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 23:49, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

PMDrive, which discussion are you referring to with regards to "yet another pointless ANI discussion". If you're referring to his defense of himself against a ban, it's hardly fair to call that "pointless"--are you saying he should just be silent in proposal that he be banned from Wikipedia? Qwyrxian (talk) 01:02, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I think PMDrive is referring to the slightly earlier discussion, just before the proposed community ban. Maheshkumaryadav asks for the article creation ban to be rescinded, for the second time in two days. No-one, other than Mahesh, has actually responded in that section. - Sitush (talk) 01:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Economy of Chandigarh Capital Region

Thanks for adding some citations to Economy of Chandigarh Capital Region. I've tided up your edits a little and made some other adjustments, details of which are in the edit summaries. It is still short of a lot of citations but I see no problem in merging it into Chandigarh Capital Region now. - Sitush (talk) 21:28, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Black money in Indian politics

The article Black money in Indian politics has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This article is a content fork of Black money in India. That article is short enough that any relevant information should go there. I'm prodding rather than recommending merge because the only 2 verified references (after my editing) are already in the other article, so there's not really anything to merge.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:46, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Serious question

Let me ask a series of serious questions. I am considering opposing the ban at ANI, and instead offering mentoring. However, doing so is pointless if the end result is just a waste of your time and mine. So, here's what I want to know:

1. Will you accept mentoring? This means having someone (probably me, with the input of others) carefully watching your edits, providing specific feedback on edits you make, and to whom you ask questions before making any substantial changes.
2. Will you accept an indefinite ban on creating new articles? You would be allowed to appeal the ban to the community after such time as you had demonstrated your general willingness to work within the system and after your mentor(s) completely agreed that you were capable of doing so in accordance with policy. While I can't speak for the community, I for one wouldn't even consider a appealing such a ban in less than 6 months of good work (this is a standard minimum time limit for bans, site-wide or topic specific, although 1 year is also common). Note that this includes any type of article creation outside of your own userspace--i.e., redirects, splits, file uploads, etc. You could work with your mentor (eventually) about creating articles in your userspace, but the decision to move them into mainspace would be 100% with your mentor (and other interested parties) until such time as your ban were removed (if ever).
3. Will you be willing to learn about and follow our policies/guidelines? The ones that concern me off the top of my head are NPOV, Verifiability, and Copyright rules, although it could extend to any relevant policy/guidelines?
4. Will you be willing to go through at least a short period of time where you don't make any edits to mainspace without approval of your mentor? Note that this will mean you'll be doing a lot less editing at first, as no mentor is going to drop all of their own Wikipedia work just to review your contributions.
5. Will you accept that if your mentor or an uninvolved admin believes that you have intentionally violated these or any other conditions of mentoring, or have otherwise gone back to your old ways, you will immediately be indefinitely blocked, and possibly site-banned?
6. Will you work (through the editing conditions discussed above) in helping improve/fix the problems you've already created before or at the same time as pursuing new work?

This conditions probably sound pretty harsh. Heck, they probably even sound like they're treating you as a second-class editor. In a sense, they are--these conditions (and possibly more , to be decided on by the community) are strict because you have regularly flaunted consensus, edited in ways that are directly contradictory to core policies, and have generally been very difficult to work with. Some users even believe that you have at times been intentionally deceptive, although I'm not certain if this is the case. This is why, so far, every single person commenting on the ban proposal on WP:ANI has supported it. If you want to be a part of Wikipedia, as I think you do, you have a lot of work to show that you are willing and capable of following our policies. Note that you may not be; as Sitush pointed out on ANI, there are some people who simply cannot work within our rules; the end result of mentoring may well be that you show that you can't/won't follow policies, and as such, you'll be indeffed.

Your answers to these questions will help me determine whether or not I'm willing to formally make this offer, and to see if the community will accept it. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:08, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Answers and willingness to improve

1. Yes, i will accept mentoring, and would welcome feedback. I shall listening and learning more.
2. I am willing to accept any type of ban and won't appeal to remove it, till i show productive work under mentor-ship.
3. I will be learning more about NPOV, Verifiability, and Copyright rules.
4. Yes, if community asks, i am willing to NOT make any edits to mainspace, without approval of my mentor.
5. Yes when the mentor or any uninvolved admin believes that i am intentionally violating any conditions, i should be punished.
6. I will be working to help and improve/fix the problems created (intensionally or unintentionally) by me in the past. Will take full responsibility of my creations and will contribute more responsibly to the encyclopedia.
7. If you accept, i would like to start under your mentor-ship. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 05:47, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Just a short comment on 5: Block are not punishment, they are preventions. You are not being punished by your restrictions because you broke rules, you are getting restrictions to prevent you from breaking the rules again. So don't see it as punishment. --OpenFuture (talk) 09:51, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, i understand. As English being my second language, sometimes the meaning doesn't come what i mean to say. The problem had been not agreeing to users i had been communicating (community), that the edits or quality of my contributions to main domain. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 10:00, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The potential for mentoring is currently being discussed on ANI. Let's see how it goes; ultimately, the decision will be based on community consensus. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The problem seems to be that my communications are not soft, in this part of world we not use the words, 'kindly', 'thank you' n others than often. The lack of soft skills, make the other think that i am not obliging. I am also not enjoying to save myself on ANI, that much effort used on main domain would have been better. If i defend myself on ANI, some feel i am arrogant. If i don't defend then some feel, i am not responding. Lets see what the community consensus becomes. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 10:13, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I am concerned by your last comment at ANI. Please try to explain to me, here, how 99% of your edits have been within policy. Please explain how that is the case, given how many of the articles you started were deleted, are being redirected, or are being vastly stripped. Ignore the stub issue for the moment. I accept that 99% of your contributions were made in good faith. It's the belief that your edits were almost entirely policy compliant that worries me. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:33, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

i agree with you, on that. I should take back those words. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 15:42, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I've made a formal mentorship proposal on ANI. I ask that you don't comment on it there, at least until we wait to see if any other editors have anything to say. Eventually you'll need to indicate acceptance of the proposal, but, again, let's see if anyone thinks it needs to be modified first. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:47, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

The consensus at ANI appears unanimous to allow mentoring instead of a ban. Please make a comment on that ANI thread indicating that you accept mentoring, and we can discuss here how to proceed. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Note that since you have agreed on WP, you are immediately not allowed to make any more edits to mainspace for a minimum of 2 weeks, future mainspace editing privileges at my discretion. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:59, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Noted. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 08:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Good luck

Thank you for the message on my talk page. I hope that you are able to find a way that you can happily and productively contribute to Wikipedia and leave this period of drama behind you. Active Banana (^bananaphone 14:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Bishanpura

I have removed the remaining citation at Bishanpura, which you added yesterday, because it did not support the statement to which it was attached, ie: that Bishapura is "a village in Notified Area Committee of Zirakpur". Citations are intended to verify that statements made in an article are correct, according to reliable sources. They should not just be stuck into an article at random.

The article itself will not be deleted because coordinates have been found for it, but the statement made in it does need citing, otherwise it is likely to end up being an extremely single-sentence article of extreme brevity, such as "Bishanpur is a location in Molhali, India". I'm not going to cut it back to that, but someone else might.

Could I also suggest that you perhaps start using citation templates when you add references? Your current style produced bare links. These are awkward to maintain and, in my opinion, often rather nonsensical to look at on the page. There are various citation template methods. The ones which I use most are:

• Template:cite book
• Template:cite web
• Template:Cite journal
• Template:Cite news

These can also be (mostly) filled in using the "Cite" link in the page editor toolbar (the blue bit at the top of the editing area when you edit an article). - Sitush (talk) 15:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Sitush, Thanks for the citation template guidance, i have started using it. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 17:33, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

No you have not! Look, anyone can view your contribution history and there is no evidence there that you have changed your cite method either in mainspace or userspace. This is the last straw - I was considering throwing my weight behind Qwyrxian's offer of mentorship but why the heck should I when you are still saying one thing and doing another, plus ignoring positive advice (as with my comment about ensuring citations are not just dumped into articles). You've wandered off to "fix" another article, fiddled with your sandbox, made a (possibly untrue) statement about being in the process of expanding an article, and then made another almost certainly untrue statement above. I despair, I really do. I wasn't expecting that you would fix Bishanpura instantly, but to lie about something, as you appear to have done, is a different ballgame. - Sitush (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually, my bad. You "sort of" used the template at Bishanpura but completely missed the point of it, which is why it looked no different from barelinks unless the raw text was examined. You need to fill in the blanks, as the template article explains, eg: name of newspaper, date of publication, name of author, title of the piece. I've deleted one of those citations already: a story about some minor illegality bore no relation what so ever to the statement it was supposed to be supporting. - Sitush (talk) 18:29, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I have sorted out Bishanpura for you. Take a look. It is still a stub, but it is a stub which can survive a challenge. You will also see how to use the cite templates. - Sitush (talk) 21:30, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

• I have deleted it altogether. Mahesh, that was a perfect example of exactly what we've been discussing. It started out as a single sentence. No references, no nothing. This after you'd already been editing this site for a few years. As of now, the content hadn't been expanded by a single keystroke. All that had been added to the thing were some category boxes and the coordinates. Let me state once more that a single sentence is not an article. PMDrive1061 (talk) 17:08, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Scratch that and you have Sitush to thank for it. He was planning on expanding the article into something more than the opening sentence, so I've restored it. PMDrive1061 (talk) 17:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the extra citations, Mahesh. However, I'm not going to sort them out for you. Please read what I said above about bare links. You have been here long enough now and should not really be still at the "newbie" phase of using bare links. I am happy to help you fix the issue, but I'm not cleaning up any more mess that you create.

I assume that the citations do now support the statement(s) made. If they do not then either remove them again or (often better, when an article is as thin as this one is) expand the article to include statements that they can support. - Sitush (talk) 17:31, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tourism in Chandigarh Capital Region

A tag has been placed on Tourism in Chandigarh Capital Region, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

This merely duplicates content from Chandigarh, Panchkula, Mohali, Zirakpur , which are themselves linked to in the main Chandigarh Capital Region article

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Sitush (talk) 16:28, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The article got deleted when i was trying to improve it, bad luck for the article. I would be thankful if other methods of deletion can be used than speedy deletion. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 17:30, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure about that? I didn't see any edits for a while. - Sitush (talk) 17:35, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Merging in Chandigarh Capital Region, might have been a better option. Still respect to your decision. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 18:11, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Woah, I did not delete it, merely tagged that it should be considered for deletion. And since you created it, I'm curious as to why you did so if you think that the content should have been in the CCR article. - Sitush (talk) 18:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Apology

Maheshkumaryadav, I said a couple of things to you here yesterday which were uncalled for. It was frustration, boiling over, and in retrospect I think that I should have walked away for a while. There certainly was a communication issue with regard to one of them (about the citing issues), and ultimately I cannot prove my other statement (about your claim that you were working on improving the Chandigarh tourist "list of lists"), because for all I know you were doing so using pen and paper prior to making adjustments online. I apologise for this. - Sitush (talk) 06:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Monsoon session

A tag has been placed on Monsoon session, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

A10: duplicates content in Lok_Sabha#Sessions_and_working_hours and Rayja Sabha

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Sitush (talk) 14:32, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I redirected it. It is an appropriate search term for finding out information about the work periods of Lok_Sabha, so is best to keep around, even though content wasn't appropriate, Sadads (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Citation check, please

Hi, could you possibly check out a citation in one of your articles please? Media bias in India, reference #2 doesn't seem to be working here in the UK & it is not in the Wayback machine either. In fact, the entire site seems not to be working. From Google searches it appears to be a blog of some sort. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 16:35, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the new reference and for trying to use the cite template. Good stuff. You may want to check out User_talk:Sadads, where there has been a little chat about this article. In retrospect, I should have instigated it on the article talk page and then posted a link to it for Sadads. I really didn't think it would develop into the dialogue that it has. I will smack myself. - Sitush (talk) 17:17, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

One of the first things to do...

...is for you to stop recommending splits, proposing them on Wikiproject pages, or otherwise worrying about that right now. While the issue is complex, trust me when I say that almost all of your recommended splits have been unnecessary or actually wrong. While there are no hard rules about splits, many Wikipedians believe that they should only be done when the parent article is already to large and there is sufficient sourcing for the standalone article. You also need to demonstrate that the separate topic itself meets the notability guidelines. Before you worry about technical issues like re-structuring, I think you should focus on learning how to create and improve content.

Anna Frodesiak suggested on my page that one way you might be able to do that is by working on a new, full-fledged article in your userspace. By this, we do not mean an article split off from another one that basically just moves over content. Nor do we mean a stub or series of stubs. Rather, we mean a full article, of at least several paragraphs, containing good, reliable sources (we can also work on how to use citation formats), possibly with pictures, infoboxes, etc. In other words, an article decent enough to be featured in DYK. As you yourself have pointed out, or coverage on India is sorely lacking. Help us begin to remedy that by creating a decent article about something in India not already covered in the encyclopedia.

Alternatively, if you would prefer, try looking at another article that you believe is missing key information that you believe you can get information to complete. We can work on drafting a new paragraph/section for that article in your userspace, and move it over once it's ready.

Let me know what appeals to you; but I'm looking for something that actually adds new, sourced, neutral, non-essaylike information to the encyclopedia, not merely restructures existing content or provides trivial or unsourced information. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:32, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. It would be better to start with drafting section in the user space for the articles of my interest. I will try to keep it new, sourced, neutral, non-essaylike. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 06:47, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Let me know what topic(s) you're interested in. I'd be happy to start with the pointers before you get too far along in drafting--certain topics/sections will be easier than others for a first run. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Politics of Chandigarh can be a topic in article Chandigarh, User:Maheshkumaryadav/Blue sandbox can be used. Let me make paint some canvas there in user space. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 08:47, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of villages in Panchkula district

The article List of villages in Panchkula district has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

Proposed deletion of List of schools in Panchkula

The article List of schools in Panchkula has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

Proposed deletion of List of schools in Chandigarh

The article List of schools in Chandigarh has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Proposed deletion of List of villages in Haryana

The article List of villages in Haryana has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

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You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

Though this seems to be an automated message, still for kind information of new visitors, i would like to inform that i won't be able to make edits in main domain for next 15 days, nor i intend to protest the deletions. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 10:43, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

These messages are basically automated and strongly recommended. Basically, when we use an automated tool called Twinkle to prod something, it automatically puts a message on the userpage of the user who created it. This falls in line with deletion policy, which recommends the same thing. You are welcome to remove these messages as soon as you get them if you don't intend to contest them. As a side note, if you want me to contest a prod for you, please tell me, especially if you think you have sources to overcome the reason for the prod. I will happily remove the prod for you if we can validly provide enough information to keep the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Blue Sandbox

In your blue sandbox, two problems. First, this sentence, "Indian National Congress[3] and Bharatiya Janata Party are the two key political parties." is not adequately sourced and not neutral. First, the source is for the 2004 elections, which is much to long ago to make a legitimate claim about today. Second, you can't actually state what the "key political parties" are--that's an opinion. You could make factual claims (assuming you can source them) like "In the 2010 election, the two best finishing parties were A & B" or "Newspaper C has found in a survey that the majority of residents affiliated with a political party are loyal to Party D" or something like that.

Second, the student organization information would go into the Punjab University article, not the Chandigarh article, as student associations are not the same as state-wide political organizations.

Finally, I'd like it if you could start talking to me here, on this page, about what you want to do, work on, etc. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, till now i was going after the topics hot in media. Like Protests in Middle East and North Africa, Protests against corruption in India, Chandigarh area topics etc. I searched several topics that i liked but there were already articles or sufficient content on those topics, I would want search some more. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 14:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I want to give it serious attention, so I will look at it tomorrow. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I actually misread your comment; let me know when you figure out where you want to go. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Pabhat

The article Pabhat has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

Proposed deletion of Himmatgarh

The article Himmatgarh has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

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Proposed deletion of Kishanpura

The article Kishanpura has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

Proposed deletion of Maharajaswaas

The article Maharajaswaas has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

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Proposed deletion of Religion and business

The article Religion and business has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Proposed deletion of List of educational institutions in Chandigarh Capital Region

The article List of educational institutions in Chandigarh Capital Region has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Single-item list, content copied without attribution or consensus from List of educational institutions in Chandigarh. Former article deals with the actual location of the listed item & so is more specific.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Sitush (talk) 18:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Karmic deletion

Please don't feel bad about your articles being zapped. I've had a few nominated for deletion too, and there were no hard feelings.

In fact, I regularly inspect articles that I created and delete or merge them. There have been a few that fall into the 'what the heck was I thinking?' category.

Some of my lemons include:

• Marshmallow Challenge - I merged into Iterative design.
• Brittle diabetes - Current AfD by a doctor who knows the subject.
• Action International Martial Arts Association - I merged into Hee Il Cho.
• Galactic archaeology - I merged into Galaxy formation and evolution.

Possible lemons ripe for AfD or merge:

• David Angell Humanitarian Award - Could merge into David Angell
• Levantine Sea - Hey, it's a sea. A sea deserves an article, right?
• Brent Hinkley - Non-notable actor stub on borrowed time unless he gets a really good role soon.
• Stringbike
• Pigeon pie - Squab pie could probably consume this.
• List of David Letterman awards - I made this from existing content to break up a dispute.
• Methane chimney

If anyone AfDs them and the decision is that they go, fine by me. That's good for Wikipedia. I don't own them. I was just stupid enough to make them. What you made wasn't stupid. They just weren't developed. If you like, pick a lemon. If it's ok with Q, AfD it. It might help bring some karmic order back to the universe. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, Well said. It also works in the other direction: sometimes articles are put forward for deletion and the nature of the process actually improves them, thus not only saving the things but in fact benefiting the project. This does not necessarily reflect badly on the proposer but, ultimately, the concern is the project rather than any individual. It is all part of the idea of consensus. I rescued one that was at AfD back in January or February. Churchill Machine Tool Company went from an AfD candidate to a Good Article within a couple of months, much of that time being waiting for the GA review. I think at least a couple of your own fall into this "rescue" category - Cactus Garden is one, which I proposed and am happy to see is going to survive.

I have some drafts in my own userspace right now that would never survive in mainspace, but I'm hoping that - given enough time to pick at them, and a lot of research because they are a little obscure - I can turn the things into something half-decent, release them to the community at large and watch them grow. It may not happen, but userspace is a wonderful place. It is never a bad thing to start there and then move things over. I've even asked people to check them out before now, seeking advice etc. Pretty much the same situation, in fact, as you are in but in my case done on a voluntary basis. I wish you well, and know that you are in good hands with Qwyrxian. - Sitush (talk) 00:07, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Wow. Churchill Machine Tool Company is amazing. I'm actually considering starting List of ghosts. Is that a good idea? Heck no! Well, maybe. I don't know. I just don't know anymore. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the motivation. The word 'karmic' made me think of 'Brahma and Shiva' (section below). From now onwards i won't mind asking for deletion of my own work also, if i find that it was unwise on my part to create them. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 10:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm pleased to hear you say that. And, I'm looking forward to seeing you really express yourself, creatively. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:36, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

AfD: Religion and business

See here. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Chandigarh Capital Region

I'm worried about this article and all of its related sub-articles. The problem is, none of these articles provide any sources to demonstrate that there actually is such a concept as the "Chandigarh Capital Region" or "Grater Chandigarh". A Google News search produces no results for the first term, and only 5 results for the second term. Do you have any sources that actually demonstrate that this is considered to be a specific region of India? As a comparison, take a look at Greater Los Angeles Area, which is a comparable term used to describe a confluence of cities in California, USA. This actual area is specifically cited in high quality sources, including US government sources (sometimes under that name, sometimes under a description like "Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside"; sometimes under the term "Los Angeles Metropolitan Statistical Area"). Do you know of any evidence that clearly shows that this linking of multiple cities into a single area is a common idea in India? That the cities somehow form a statistical/economic/political unit? Without such citations, I'm actually inclined to say that every article, including the main one, relating to Chandigarh Capital Region may need to be merged into Chandigarh. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:46, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

There is no such thing and it should be merged with Chandigarh. Shyamsunder (talk) 07:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I have tried to give some links on talk page Talk:Chandigarh_Capital_Region, regarding the use of term in general media. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 09:23, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Though Google is one of the best Search engines, As per my knowledge 'Google News search' in India is not having agreement with many new papers and channels ( may be more than 50%). Some are affiliated to yahoo etc. Digging in simple google search (esp. google.co.in) helps in many cases where Google News search is not able to provide results. I just wanted to share the insights. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 09:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I looked at this issue last weekend and was as bemused as Qwyrxian. I could find some references, but very few and very tenuous. The region certainly is not a defined area from what I saw and I did think that the whole thing might be a serious piece of original research/POV. I would be content to see the articles merged into the relevant town/city articles (not all of their content relates to Chandigarh). - Sitush (talk) 09:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

It might be better to do further talk on Talk:Chandigarh_Capital_Region page. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 10:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

At first I was a little worried about that, but since I'm mentoring I think it's fine. Technically speaking, article talk pages are part of mainspace, which technically you can't edit, but I think that your help here is very valuable for us there. As long as you don't edit tendentiously (which hasn't really been a problem for you) on talk pages, please do keep contributing to those talk pages where you're invited. I would say that you shouldn't go off to new talk pages at the moment, though, if only so that you can stay a little more focused for now.

But regarding Greater Chandigarh, I see you've put up a lot of references there--thank you. I will take a look at them tomorrow and see how it "feels" to me, and hopefully will get other editors' input, too. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:02, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Haryanvi music

The article Haryanvi music has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

While this form of music may well exist, I cannot find any reliable sources, and only a few unreliable ones. If even a single source can be found, this can be saved.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:07, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I tried to find source, didn't succeed till now. If no source is found, might be merging and redirecting to Music of Haryana would be better. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 09:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

There is not much point moving something that is unreferenced into another article. I know that there are hundreds of thousands of exception here, but the policy is that if it is not referenced then it should not be here. - Sitush (talk) 09:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Music of Haryana is itself a big huge problem--it's entirely unreferenced, highly POV, and reads like something halfway between a religious text and a travel brochure. I'll have to add it to my list, but, unfortunately, I know I won't be able to find any references to support it. If there anything in Harvanyi Music to move over, I would, but I'll have to look again. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:56, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that Music of Haryana is a copyvio, with a massive expansion on 23 April. It probably needs taking right back, if not actually being prodded. - Sitush (talk) 13:02, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

And indeed it was either copyvio or plagiarism. Wayback machine shows the content added here on 23 April 2010 at least as far back as January 2009. I have restored to the situation prior to the big addition. - Sitush (talk) 13:14, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree, appears to have come from here: http://www.4to40.com/music/print.asp?p=Folklore_of_Haryana_Part-II&k=Iktara.--NortyNort (Holla) 13:19, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Brahma and Shiva

In Hindu mythology, there are three different gods that look after different roles:

• Brahma- God of creation
• Vishnu - Supports, sustains and governs the Universe
• Mahesh- the Destroyer or transformer

Similarly in Wikipedia, all roles like creation, maintainance, deletion are all important. I seem to enjoy creation more :-) Creating better is what i would like to learn. I am saying this in lighter sense, hope doesn't offend someone. Thanks. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 10:01, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Good analogy (from what little I know of Hinduism). As long as you see that all three are important, than its perfectly fine to work whichever aspect you prefer. I'll make some comments above as well, but, like Anna, I wanted to echo that I think your attitude here is very positive and helpful. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Systemic corruption

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Systemic corruption requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, a rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Sitush (talk) 15:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Your contributed article, List of educational institutions in Punjab, India

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, List of educational institutions in Punjab, India. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - List_of_educational_institutions_in_Punjab. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at List_of_educational_institutions_in_Punjab - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Sitush (talk) 17:26, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Copyright violations: please stop

Your addition to Systemic corruption has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other websites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 17:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Earlier i used to think that copying a line and changing it a bit, doesn't violate copy rights, but in last few days i have read more about copy right policies and have learned and found that i was wrong. In future i intend to write all the text in my own words, to avoid any copyright issue. Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 05:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I must say, Mahesh, that in the case of this particular article (and many others) you did not change the text one bit. You directly copied the content. Your memory is playing tricks with you, but no worries as per my comment below about clean sheets/new pages. There are a few cases where you could in fact copy and paste the content provided that you acknowledged the source, but to be on the safe side I would recommend that you follow your interpretation of the copyights policy as have stated above. - Sitush (talk) 06:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Life and culture of Jats

You moved Life and culture of Jats and Economy of Punjab (India) without any discussion . Please undo and discuss why you think these should be moved.Shyamsunder (talk) 20:26, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Let me step in a second as Shyamsunder as Mahesh's mentor. First, at the moment, Mahesh is not allowed to make edits to main space, so xe cannot undo the moves as you requested. Second, the second move is actually correct: parenthesis should generally be used only for disambiguation, not for extra details. So, the title would be "Economy of Punjab (India)" only if there also existed an article like "Economy of Punjab (Russia)" or some other country that also had a location called Punjab. On the first move, though, you are correct--Mahesh basically changed the focus of the article from one about Jats in general to one about Haryana Jats, and that was inappropriate. I'm going to rollback that article to its former state, then move it back. Mahesh, it is possible to create a new article on "Culture of Haryana", but, as you know it is probably better as a section in Haryana. However, when moving or considering moves, you should never change the actual topic of an article--since Jats live in many different regions, it was wrong to change the article to only focusing on Haryana Jats. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Now, having said that and made the reversion and move, Shyamsunder, it would be great if you could work on that article. First, it's highly POV (lots of peacock words); more importantly, though, it's not clear to me why it shouldn't be a part of Jat people. We can probably hold that conversation best at Talk:Life and culture of Jat people. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:07, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

And can I just add, for the benefit of anyone that turns up to this talk page, that both the items mentioned by Shyamsunder and the copyvio notice in the section immediately prior to this (not to mention umpteen PROD notices etc) relate to edits made prior to the mentorship arrangement being put into place. They may be symptomatic of the issues which gave rise to that arrangement but Maheshkumaryadav should not be maligned for them in the current environment - it is all just part of the "clean up".

Mahesh, take heart. You are on a new, clean page in your Wikipedian life. Make the most of it. - Sitush (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Culture of Haryana article doesn't exist as of now, I can try to expand the Culture section in article Haryana (in my sandbox), and if sufficient content is developed, maybe a separate article can be created. Meanwhile directing Culture of Haryana to Life and culture of Jats is not advised as Haryana have other castes also like Ahirs (Yadav), dominant in districts like Rewari, Mahendragarh, Narnaul, Gurgaon etc Mahesh Kumar Yadav (talk) 06:08, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

But castes live well beyond their traditional areas, both in India and abroad. Don't create an article just for the hell of it. Many of your recent creations had the appearance of POV-pushing by article name; that is, bombarding the project with as many articles containing the name of Chandigarh and Haryana as you could think of, without any real thought regarding their merits. Tying things down to an area is not a great idea unless something is unique to that area & you can develop some reasonable content for it which could not sit happily in an existing article.

I bet there are Jats and Ahirs living near me here in Manchester, England; there is certainly a Yadav family operating a shop just down the road. (Well, Yadav by name - I am assuming that they are of the same caste). I have no idea if the caste system operates in any meaningful sense outside of India but my suspicion is that the squabbling is the same even though all the context of "traditional occupations" etc is totally irrelevant there.

Anyway, take Qwyrxian's advice on this. The above is just my 2 cents. - Sitush (talk) 06:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually, Mahesh is right here; I think you misread him. After I did the move back to Life and culture of Jat people, Culture of Haryana redirected there. As Mahesh points out, Haryana has many different castes, so, in fact Culture of Haryana should redirect to Haryana, which it now does. Thanks for catching that, Mahesh, I didn't notice it.

Regarding "Culture of Haryana", you should only think about expanding it if you think that there is a distinct culture that is identified by the geographical area "Haryana" (this is what Sitush was correctly explaining). If Haryana doesn't have a state-wide culture, then it doesn't make sense to have a "Culture of Haryana" article. It is possible to have a similar section in Haryana, but it would instead be listing things like museums, art galleries, music halls, etc; i.e., not the "culture of Haryana", but "the type of cultural activities found in Haryana". That would be a fine part to the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:49, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Police use of torture in India

An article that you have been involved in editing, Police use of torture in India, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for "None of the above" voting option in India

An article that you have been involved in editing, "None of the above" voting option in India, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Environmental issues in Chandigarh Capital Region

An article that you have been involved in editing, Environmental issues in Chandigarh Capital Region, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Culture of Chandigarh Capital Region

The article Culture of Chandigarh Capital Region has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The Chandigarh Capital Region is the name for a group of towns closely connected to and including Chandigarh. It is a political/economic entity, not a cultural one. These towns do not have a connected cultural understanding, so there is no actual topic for "Culture of CCR". Chandigarh may deserve a culture section, but not this.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Chandigarh Capital Region proposal

I'd like your input on the thread I just opened at Chandigarh Capital Region. You may edit that talk page directly without breaking your mainspace ban. I'll ask the two other main editors as well. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Pir Muchhaila‎

The article Pir Muchhaila‎ has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

References

Though references is what make Wikipedia reliable and all info must be supported with references.

• Still anyone have a figure - what % of Wikipedia content is un-referenced ?
• Does all un-referenced content should be removed ?

Thanks. 14.98.28.200 (talk) 11:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, it is actually pretty simple. Your first query just does not matter: the policy is that statements should be verifiable using reliable sources. The fact that other stuff exists which does not conform to the policy is irrelevant in the sense that anything you do (or I do, or A. N. Other does) should conform. If it doesn't then it may be deleted.

Generating an accurate figure for uncited content is next to impossible because there are several ways of denoting such content & also because the content is continually changing. Examples of how to denote include tagging each uncited statement or simply the entire article. The tags generate lists of items which need to be verified and draw attention to problems that need resolution.

We do have to allow for newcomers as they almost always do not have a full appreciation of the policies and/or of the mechanisms for citing and so on. Certainly in the case of biographies of living people, uncited material added even by newcomers is very likely to be deleted if even remotely controversial/personal etc. In the case of experienced editors (ie: ones who have been around for a while and contributed quite a lot, as the owner of this talk page has), it would be expected that they had an understanding of the policies. There really isn't any excuse for an experienced contributor who fails to cite & if I had it my way then I would delete such contributions on the spot if I could not verify them myself. In practice, sometimes it is just better to leave it as being essentially "harmless" but that is a judgement call and therefore subjective. You should assume, therefore, that uncited content will be deleted evne though sometimes it will not. - Sitush (talk) 11:56, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, to amplify what Sitush said...the actual policy doesn't require verification, it requires that the info be verifiable. So technically not everything needs to be cited. However, any information which may potentially be challenged which is not cited may be removed. Any negative or contentious information on living people must be removed per WP:BLP. For other stuff, it's an editorial/behavioral call. A common practice for information that sounds probably true but isn't cited is to first mark it with some sort of template like {{citation needed}}. People may then give other editors time to find a source, and then pull it out if it isn't eventually verified. A lot of it has to do with context, how contentious the information is, the circumstances of who added the info and how, etc. So, it's against our normal practices to just flat out remove all unsourced info, but it's also against practices to leave uncited info in articles indefinitely. Usually, though, the issue can be worked out through the normal consensus-based editing process. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)