Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven

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ÐℬigXЯaɣ 10:39, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

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I left a reply about the Esperanto shenanigans on my talk page.

I am still on the whole an inclusionist, though I do think things should have reliable sources. For example I think it is ridiculous to rely on secondary sources when the primary sources are themselves the horse's mouth, and if the secondary source just says "the primary source says this", it seems odd insist that the secondary source is somehow more reliable than the first. (The insistence comes from assuming the secondary source also checks its facts, which, except for learned journals and the better class of sub-editor, is unfortunately rarely the case.)

I have nothing against Esperanto and I can get the gist of something written it since it is largely a Romance/Germanic hybrid like English. I do have everything against incorrect information, and unfortunately some speakers of Esperanto do tend to push the point a little too far. One might as well argue TCP/IP or binary numbers are a universal language, by reductio ad absurdem.

Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 04:05, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Simon!

You speak about Esperanto "shenanigans". Ok, here is my new year's quiz:

Which of the followings assertions are true, which are false?

1) Google Translate includes Esperanto.

2) The number of Esperanto speakers in Hungary doubled between 1990 and 2000 and again between 2000 and 2010.

3) The Chinese government publishes news in Esperanto every working day.

4) Two third of the Esperanto speakers answering in Facebook began using Esperanto practically before they learned the language for 30 hours.

Are there any complaints about the sources I gave?

Yes, some speakers Esperanto do "tend to push the point a little too far". As do some speakers of English and some enthusiasts about English... I am ready to help adjusting exaggerated assertions.

All the best and a happy new year --09:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Esperanto in Hungary

Hi there,

Thanks for your comments at my talk page. I have replied there.

My particular gripe is not with the statement that Esperanto is spoken in Hungary (I am sure it is) but the spin, in my opinion, to make it stated that it is somehow a first language or native language or widely spoken. The only official language in Hungary is Hungarian; Romanian and German of course are spoken a bit, and some English and German and amongst the older population Russian. It is simply untrue to project Esperanto as being a widely spoken language in Hungary. If you say 4% then when I get on the train here every twenty-fifth person in the carriage should be speaking Esperanto, and it ain't so; and that is in a cosmopolitan part of the country.

I have no problem with Esperanto (well I have some linguistic problems with it being essentially a Romance-based language that is not particularly useful to people outside Europe, but that's a different argument). I have the problem with what I considered, and still considered, pushing a point by saying it is used in Hungary as an official language. It isn't. I have taken this out and it has been added back to the point that I have given up. It is only an official language on degree courses to establish that the student has a knowledge of linguistics, essentially. Saying more is pushing the point. Si Trew (talk) 09:08, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Simon, that you are sure that Esperanto is spoken in Hungary. The page Languages of the European Union is for languages "used by people within the member states of the European Union". So, no doubt, Esperanto can be included on that page.

The page says now: "In Hungary it is officially recognized by the Ministry of Education as a foreign language (...)." This is true. You wrote that it is "simply untrue to project Esperanto as being a widely spoken language in Hungary" - I totally agree (and the article as well).

4 % is the percentage of native speakers between speakers of Esperanto, not between the hungarian population.

Esperanto is quite useful for people outside Europe because it is much easier than e.g. English, more regular. And it opens the way to a special international network. That's why quite some people outside Europe learn it in addition to English. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 10:56, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

The key word here is "foreign". Thank you for that. I am not sure how long that would stay there, I left you a longer reply in a previous addition to your talk page (a polite one but making the same points I had made above and thanking you), and I think you are right the key word is "foreign". Si Trew (talk) 00:36, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

The linguistics of Hungary are very problematic just from a political point of view. Romanian of course is spoken in some parts, and Hungarian is spoken in some parts of Romania, and it spills into Serbia and Croatia a bit etc and these are very touchy political/nationalistic subjects. I think someone once tried to add on to Languages of the EU that English was the official language of England, when England has no official language. I have nothing against Esperanto, I just want to avoid it becoming embroiled in the kinda linguistic politicking that tends to happen on these articles as a kinda form of nationalism and which, in a sense, Esperanto was designed to avoid. I am not sure literally what "Esperanto" means in Esperanto but at least I take it to mean "I hope", and as long as we all do that and hope to do better, the world gets a bit better each day. Si Trew (talk) 13:43, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

I think we can just wait and see, if "Esperanto" succeeds to survive on Languages of the EU.

"Esperanto" means "someone who hopes". "Esperi" is "to hope" and "-anto" is someone who does something, in the present tense; e.g. "parolanto" is someone who speaks.--Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 06:17, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

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Category:Esperanto speakers of Jewish descent has been nominated for discussion

Category:Esperanto speakers of Jewish descent, which you created, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:59, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

What a pity. There is an obvious link between being of Jewish descent and speaking Esperanto; see the discussion. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 10:03, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

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