Kwloo

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Hello Kwloo, and Welcome to Wikipedia!

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Dave1185

Kwloo, good luck, and have fun. --Dave ^{♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫®} 09:56, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

SG>NK

Please read this again

Visa required, except for A max. stay of 30 days for holders of normal passports issued to nationals of Singapore.[1]

Thanks.--Twofortnights (talk) 00:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes I am aware of that. However, I have cross-checked that supposed info and fact with 3 sources before undoing it. 1. A tour company that operates to DPRK (who I personally went to DPRK with). They have confirmed that there is no change to the visa requirement to DPRK. I have an email on this matter if you would like to see it. 2. Ministry of Foreign Affairs Singapore. They have stated that only those on business visa with a special letter from the Singapore Business Federation qualifies for it 3. A friend who works with a local Singapore tour company. He also stressed that the Timaticweb site is only a guidance and is not to be used as a final confirmation.

In the absence of any formal announcements or press/news release (the only other country with visa-free access to DPRK is Malaysia - of which there are many press articles supporting this fact; and I personally have brought a Malaysian to DPRK visa-free), we can only verify and corroborate that this is incorrect.

Thanks.--kwloo (talk)

I think you really need to read the following to find out why your phone calls and e-mails to some agencies can't be used as a reference let alone grounds to remove content supported by verifiable sources:

• Wikipedia:Verifiability - In Wikipedia, verifiability means that people reading and editing the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source. Wikipedia does not publish original research. Its content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors. Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it.
• Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources - Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published sources
• Wikipedia:No original research
• Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth

Timatic is not a guidance but a system run by IATA based on information supplied by national Governments. It is updated daily (so even if you could find a link for that Singapore MFA statement it could be outdated and it's irrelevant anyway as it is not the Singapore MFA, but DPRK that determines their visa policy) and no passenger can board a plane for a certain destination if the Timatic says they need a visa and they don't have it. Equally, the airline won't face any fines if they boarded a passenger per information published on Timatic. Thank you.--Twofortnights (talk) 12:43, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm aware of it being verifiable. However, the reality is that IATA is not a trustable or reliable system. I know where you are coming from - it is there, it is supposed to be trustable/reliable and hence it can be taken as "from the source". But my point of contention is - the "facts" there are not necessarily reliable.

Is there any point in putting up an information that is on Timatic but is NOT what is available in reality? In other words, if this is not practically possible, should we even be putting it up?

Thanks. --kwloo (talk)

Yes, Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth.--Twofortnights (talk) 13:03, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

How about the fact that "reliable sources are not infallible" [[2]]?

I think we should refrain from making any changes until we can verify that this is not infallible - which I have done so with an email to IATA/Timatic. It is better to put in an incomplete information rather than a practically impossible information. --kwloo (talk)

I am sorry but that would be WP:OR, the whole encyclopedia relying on your word. Imagine if some birther came in and asked for Wikipedia not to include the place of birth in an article about Barack Obama until the issue is cleared, because he has evidence that he was born in Kenya. It wouldn't work, would it. The burden of proof is on you, if IATA updates their page, we will edit the article accordingly. Until then, there is not a single published source to dispute that information. And even if there was, if you would read the rules I linked you to, you would see the solution is not to delete anything but to give a balanced view - "When reliable sources disagree, present what the various sources say, give each side its due weight, and maintain a neutral point of view." from WP:V. --Twofortnights (talk) 13:14, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Since you said that each site is to give its own weight, that is the reason for the remark to check from the nearest embassy or travel agent. It is not saying that it is wrong and in fact that applies to all the countries as well. For the record, the reason I have not added for every other entry is because they can be corroborated with their respective embassy consular pages - which has the final authority on the matter. --kwloo (talk)Kwloo (talk) 13:30, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

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Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 13:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to the Wikipedia Selangor Meetup 1

The 3rd Wikipedia Malaysia Meetup had now arrived on Selangor! Pack your bags and your laptop, and meet some fellow Malaysia Wikipedians in the meetup!

• Date: Sunday, 11 December 2016
• Time: 12:00 - 2:00 pm
• Venue: Sudo Brew, 7 Jalan SS 22/11, Damansara Jaya, Petaling Jaya, Selangor (3°7′54.1″N 101°37′16.4″E)
• Medium of communication:
  • English language - for the general overall meetup
  • Malay language - for a special session to discuss ms.wikipedia.org (subject to enough number of participants)

This meetup was initiated by Chongkian and the invitation was written and sent by NgYShung. For more information, see the meetup page. If there is any enquires, feel free to discuss at the talk page or at the Facebook event page. (Delivered: 07:27, 24 November 2016 (UTC))

Invitation to the Wikipedia Selangor Meetup 2

The 4th Wikipedia Malaysia Meetup will be held for the second time on Selangor, and you are invited!

• Date: Saturday, 25 February 2017
• Time: 11:00 am - 1:00 pm (Malaysia Standard Time, UTC+8:00)
• Venue: Menara Sunway (check page for venue/room update), Bandar Sunway, Petaling Jaya, Selangor (3°4′8.4″N 101°36′36.6″E)
• Medium of communication:
  • English language - for the general overall meetup
  • Malay language - for Malay Wikipedia section (subject to request)

→ To collaborate between Wikipedia Malaysia User Group and Sunway Group, a large corporation in Malaysia.
→ To create Wikipedia (and other Wikimedia projects)'s articles and edit/improve articles on the spot.

This meetup was initiated by Chongkian and the invitation was written and sent by NgYShung. For more information and updates, see the meetup page. If there is any enquires, feel free to discuss at the talk page. If you wish to opt-out of any future Malaysia meetup invitation, please add your name here. (Delivered: 11:46, 22 February 2017 (UTC))

Invitation to the Wikipedia Johor Meetup 2

The 5th Wikipedia Malaysia Meetup will be held for the second time in Johor. Since it is at holiday, check it out if you have time!

• Date: Saturday, 18 March 2017
• Time: 1:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m. (Malaysia Standard Time, UTC+8:00)
• Venue: Al-Haji Grand Restaurant, Jalan Austin Heights 8/2, Taman Mount Austin, Johor Bahru, Johor, Malaysia (1°33′43.2″N 103°46′34.6″E)
• Medium of communication:
  • English language - for the general overall meetup
  • Malay language - for Malay Wikipedia section (subject to request)

This meetup was initiated by Chongkian and the invitation was written and sent by NgYShung. For more information and updates, see the meetup page. If there is any enquirers, feel free to discuss at the talk page. If you wish to opt-out of any future Malaysia meetup invitation, please add your name here. (Delivered: 03:54, 17 March 2017 (UTC))

Invitation to the Wikipedia Kuala Lumpur Meetup 2

The 5th Wikipedia Malaysia Meetup will be held for the second time on Kuala Lumpur!

• Date: Saturday, 22 April 2017
• Time: 6:00 - 8:00pm (Malaysia Standard Time, UTC+8:00)
• Venue: FEEKA Coffee Roasters, Jalan Mesui, Bukit Bintang, Kuala Lumpur (3.1487°N 101.7084°E / 3.1487; 101.7084)
• Medium of communication:
  • English language - for the general overall meetup
  • Malay language - for Malay Wikipedia section (subject to request)

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→ To talk about the past Wikimedia Conference 2017 in Germany, Creative Commons, Malay Wikipedia and the upcoming Wikipedia East, Southeast Asia & Pacific Conference 2018 in Indonesia.
→ Forming a Wikipedia Malaysia User Group, coordinating East Malaysia-related affairs and training newcomer Wikipedia editors.
→ And a lot more!

This meetup was initiated by Chongkian and the invitation was written and sent by QianCheng. For more information and updates, see the meetup page. If there is any enquires, feel free to discuss at the talk page. If you wish to opt-out of any future Malaysia meetup invitation, please remove your name here. (Delivered: 06:01, 14 April 2017 (UTC))