User talk:Kumarrao/Archive 2

Chalukya dynasty

Edit wars are not frutiful. Please see formal dispute resolution for content disputes. utcursch | talk 11:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a content dispute -- you want to add something to the article that you feel is correct; few other editors feel it's not suitable for the article and revert your edits. The best option is to go for informal mediation or Request for comment. utcursch | talk 12:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

your sources

You cant quote Alduri's web page as you did on Chalukya talk page, because if you did the same source would be used to show that Telugu script came from old Kannada script.Dineshkannambadi 13:30, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Where are they using that web page.? I removed it from the Kannada page yesterday.Dineshkannambadi 13:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Dont drag my name

Kumarrao,

Don't drag my name unnecessarily as you did here. If you do not have the patience to sort out the dispute through amicable discussions on talk pages, it is your problem, not mine. And please stop taking individual names and accusing them just because you have an argument over the contents of an article. Wiki ethics indicate that content disputes have to be solved over talk pages and it is better for everyone of us here that we adhere to such ethics. I have already warned you once here. Any further personal attacks or involving my name in any disputes unnecessarily will not be taken lightly. Thanks -- Amarrg 16:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

How to use sources

Kumarrao, in wikipedia, you can produce the views (if clear and unambiguous) of any scholar, but you cant expect that one or two scholars will be given the same weightage as 8 or 9 scholars. The minority views are always minority and at best can be used as a side note. You cant blow it up, create a para called "natives of Andhra" and change the face of the article. These are wiki rules that admin Utcursch can expain to you. I can produce atleast a dozen more scholars who claim that the Badami Chalukyas were natives of Karnataka. Earlier theories before 5th century are only theories with very little inscriptional evidence. Once you understand this, things will become easy.Dineshkannambadi 16:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

June 2007

This is your last warning. If you continue to make personal attacks on other people as you did at User talk:Dineshkannambadi, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Gnanapiti 17:34, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Yes, even I was skeptical about the sample size but ignorant about the techniques used. But even then I think H5 and H14 y-haplogroups are predominantly present among the sample tested.

I don't understand why anyone would want to insert objectionable references into articles which are especially on sensitive topics. Anyways lets put this aside and let us put an end to this. We will remove 'objectionable' references esp. to Karnataka, Kannada etc.as pointed out by some users

Gangs have to be met with gangs and individuals with those of that ilk.

What tags are you talking about? The tags at the top of the page? --Altruism^{To talk} 11:50, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

.

Reliable citations WP:RS

I strongly agree you. Despite there existing a WP policy on the credibility of citations, there is/are ample room/loopholes for including websites, many of which are of the "backyard" kind. A website could be hosted by shelling out a few bucks or on free hosting services and Voila!!! we have pages where we can include whatever is convenient for us. It is largely for the users in question to monitor and pro-actively exclude such sites from being used as citations. Lets face there are very very few people out there who are totally unbiased in presenting history anywhere on Earth. Even eminent 'historians' have been caught fabricating/making up history. God save us (mankind)!

I will deal with the tags and remove them shortly. They can just be removed, by editing, after a valid reason(s) in the edit summary. --Altruism^{To talk} 12:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Could you plz. give me the exact link. I see that the first post in your main talk page hasn't been archived. Shall I do it? Also, please see the archive box. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 12:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll remove the edits in a day or two. Or, you could incorporate the necessary changes and remove them. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 13:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Your edits on my talkpage

Hi Kumarrao, due to a host of personal commitments, I am no longer active on Wikipedia. I suggest that you try either WT:INWNB or WP:ANB. Sorry for the same. --Gurubrahma 13:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Periyar

Just in case you are not watching my talk page I thought I would let you know that in the begining I wasn't very clear about what you were saying. Now I do!! (My slow brain). Anyways I have put some reference that he indeed was a Balija Naidu, but not sure how well you can make it fit into the article. I leave that to you, since the credit of bringing it to notice goes to you obviously. Cheers and please do not take my earlier comments as some kind of personal attack!!!!! ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 18:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure why you added the word Telugu to it when I mentioned that it states him as Balija Naidu alone. A Balija Naidu can be from any of the four states of South. ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 19:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Please watch Telugu script for some acts of vandalism

Telugu script is in a high risk category due to a possible attack from some vandals. Please watch it. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 05:48, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

I and Gnanapiti arrived at some kind of compromise by aggreeing to have "Kannada-Telugu script". It started all over again with KNM and Sarvagna insisting that Telugu script originated from "old Kannada script". Kumarrao 08:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Very unfortunate. I requested editors of Telugu script not less than 3-4 times to use the Talk page for any discussions. Reach a probable consensus, and then make the agreed upon changes. --Altruism^{To talk} 09:26, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:3RR violation report against me

Plz. refer to 3RR violation complaint against me, where I've been reported for 3RR violation, when all I wanted was for protection of the article Telugu script. In fact I had made a request to several sys-ops, several hours prior to having inadvertently violated 3RR. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 09:17, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I've also reported a highly probable case of sockpuppetry WP:SOCK against User:Sarvagnya. Plz. see Possible sock puppetry, as some users seem to be using sock puppetry to bypass 3RR. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 09:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Plz. also see the page for reports, for checking User:Sarvagnya. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 12:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Origin of Vijayanagara Empire

Thanks you for attempting to provide citaions that that page. However, there are a few requirements. For the books referenced, in the reference section, please provide full publication info, year of publication, place of publication and an ID number, the way I have for my books (the books by Venkataramanayya and Durga Prasad are kind of hanging). This is always needed for verification (by anyone). In the "inline" citations, please provide the page number from the source and the year of publication, the way I have. This is a wiki requirement. If its a web citation from a link online, provide a web citation format (as in your Robert Sewell citation). The format for that is

cite web|title=|url=|author=|publisher=|work=|accessdate= (starting and ending with double flower brackets).

Thanks.Dineshkannambadi 14:23, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your continued efforts to update the citations with required info. I want to point out a a few things I noticed,

• As far as possible, use only English language sources in English wiki. There is no shortage of English sources on this matrerial. One of your citations came from a vernacular source.

• Please dont put names of historians in the main article. It has to be in the "inline" citation that way I have put it. This brings the article to wiki standards. You could always write, "according to a historian" in the main article and then name the historian in the citation. If the historian is refering to another historian, the citation must say "Raja in Mantri (1900), p100" where Raja is the historian referred to and mantri is the historian whose book you are refering to.

• The section on "Vidyaranya" needs to be cited. I will be adding a detailed section about arguements historians have made favouring his valuable involvement in the founding of the empire. If you have the sources opposing his involvement, please cite that information.Thanks

Dineshkannambadi 14:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, in you citation by Suryanarayana Rao, you have left out the full details where he gives full credit to Hoysala Veera Ballala III for organizing the opposition to the invasion and that Harihara and Bukka teamed up with Ballala III. All this will be entered by me in due course.Dineshkannambadi 18:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Finally the unfair block ends

My block of 24 hrs has finally ended. Though unfairly awarded, thanks to User:Blnguyen, I'm proud that I was able to contribute my bit to Telugu, and more for being able to defend the truth. --Altruism^{To talk} 05:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

You have not mentioned the appropriate code here. --Altruism^{To talk} 05:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Vepachedu different from Mr. Ramchandra Rao (indculture)

About 8days ago, one Mr. Vepachedu wrote (by email) asking me not to confuse him with Mr. Ramchandra Rao (indculture). I replied to him that I would also convey the same to you. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 10:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Telugu script

I have readded Kannada Empires in Kannadiga page because the Alduri webpage has been used in the Telugu script page claiming the Chalukyas were originally from Andhra and relearnt Telugu etc. Of the 15 scholars I have read from, none make such a far fetched claim . It has been made clear that Alduri's web page is not acceptable as he himself says he is not an expert and is also a minority opinion. Once you remove the statement,the statement in Kannadiga page will change to reflect what was there earlier.Dineshkannambadi 19:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

no bargaining

1.Do not forget that Adluri's webpage was used by you and your team to push "old Kannada" theory. Now, you repudiate its validity. On the contrary, I still believe Adluri's contribution has its own merits. Convictions should not change according to convenience.

There are several sources that bring to light the old Kannada theory. You must be aware of that now. Seems like you are using Alduris site to your convinience too, .Dineshkannambadi 23:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

2.You also conveniently ignored that Durga Prasad's book (which you cited in many articles) also talks about Andhra as Chalukyan original home.

Durga Prasad says they were natives like the Kadambas, What does that mean. You are choosing to selectively use the "chalukya Vishaya" to your convinience. I have checked another 10 scholars (Stein, Rice, Eaton etc etc just to name a few). I dont see the Andhra/Cudappa theory anywhere.Dineshkannambadi 23:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

3.In addition, the origin of Vijayanagar empire is a highly controversial topic which you yourself agree. I recently found a book by Bangalore Suryanarain Row (1881), a Kannada scholar, who dwelt at length on various theories but did not venture to make any conclusion (I added this citation in the article).

I have full access to B.S Rao's book and I will add the "full" info on the role of Veera Ballala III in that article shortly.Dineshkannambadi 23:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

My original objection that Vijayanagar empire was not a Kannada empire still holds good. Is it logical that you yourself revert the article back to its orignal state? That implies you made the earlier change without proper reason. Do you agree?

Th earlier compromise was made to solve an issue. Not solve it from Kannada point of view while you go romping around using Alduri at your will and wish.Dineshkannambadi 23:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The condition you made smacked of bargaining. Is it scientific?

I have never bargained with history. Just was letting you know that compromises should work at both ends.

If I offered a compromise that one can use Telugu-Kannada script, also known as Old Kannada script it was based on the availability of citations in favour of both the contentions. Same thing holds good for Chalukyan home because I could find two independent sources in its support. I believe truth cannot be bargained.

One source (Alduri) is not acceptable as he himself says he he is not an expert. You cant selectively disregard his old Kannada theory on the same page but selectively quote the Cudappa theory to your convinience. Durga Prasad is ambiguous as he says both "natives like Kadambas and Chutus" and "Chalukya Vishaya". Nowhere does he say they are Andhras or Telugus. Its just your imagination. On the contrary I have more than 10 scholars listed attesting to their Karnataka origin and intend to provide more. You have used the Alduri web page to your convinience and expected an adjustment from others.Dineshkannambadi 23:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Hai

Hai Kummarao,

I accidently came upon your profile.I admit that i too have bad experiences from these bunch of guys.They always alter articles like Malayalee etc.Not only Telugu Wikipedians but we, Malayalee Wikipedians are fed up of them.I doubt their intentions very much.They are keen to promote their languages in cost of others.These people are language fundamentalists and interfere in any articles that has a slight touch with Kannada and Karnataka.For further information pls look talk pages and page histories of Mangalore, Bangalore,Kasaragod,Kasaragod Tulu,Mappila Malayalam etc.You will understand.

Also see my talk page for more details.

ARUNKUMAR P.R 04:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Brahmic family

This looks like a content dispute. Since, it's very clear that you (and others) are having a dispute with another group of editors, I'd strongly suggest going for dispute resolution such as Wikipedia:Requests for comment or Wikipedia:Mediation. You can request page protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. utcursch | talk 14:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

web vs book sources

Kumarrao, the issue is not "you are using web sites , so am i". My web sites agree with mainstream thought (book citations). Your web site is not corroborated with any book citation. Even among book citations, the citation has to be popular and widely accepted. Durga Prasad is unclear, the more I read, the more unclear it becomes. Instead of following wiki policy, you are trying a propaganda of your web source even in the Brahmic page. You are claiming I am being partisan, but thats exactly what you are doing and that too without strong support from mainstream hisorians. As an example, a Russian traveller who visited Vijayanagara in 1472 wrote of them as "Kadamba kings". You must be aware that no where in wiki do you see this cited by me. Why? because the observation of this Russian Traveller is not considered main stream. The citations have to agree with "MAINSTREAM" thought. wiki is not a newspaper, but an encyclopedia. Please understand this.Dineshkannambadi 16:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not questioning Alduri's view or Durga Prasad's view. I am questioning using minority source and giving it same weightage as majority sources per WP:UNDUE, which is what you are trying to do. You did not bother to mention the vast majority view in Telugu script regarding the same issue and in Brahmic family also, but are all heart when it comes to mentioning this tiny view by Durga Prasad in Chalukya dynasty (convoluting it). lets see what you put in History of Andhra. Dineshkannambadi 23:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Kannada-Telugu Scripts

Hai Kumarrao,

How come Kannada-Telugu script can be called as Old Kannada script when Telugu script has more alphabets and pronunciations than Kannada script?In alphabets and pronunciations, Telugu can only be analysed with Malayalam script as both of these scripts have got vocalic L in their Vowel array and larger number of pronunciations.

ARUNKUMAR P.R 04:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Article

Hope you have seen Musunuri Nayaks. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 06:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see and contribute to Narla Tata Rao. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 10:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Plz. see Raja of Muktyala. Tried hard getting sources, but found only one remote source. I guess your surname's also that. --Altruism^{To talk} 05:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Good work on Tata Rao. Is this Moturi Hanumantha Rao related to Moturi Udayam--communists? Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 05:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see

Plz. see and contribute to Kotha Raghuramaiah and Makineni Basavapunnaiah. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 06:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Telugu script has been unprotected. Hope there's consensus at least this time around.

It was only a guess. Last guess-- Does it start with a 'J'. Thanking You, Altruism^{To talk} 10:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

We could re-phrase the sentences, by just retaining the main point and quoting the site as the reference source. For images too something similar could be done. I guess this would work since it isn't verbatim copying. Why else should someone get a source, when there should be no copying of any amount from any site. --Altruism^{To talk} 10:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Bangalore

Hai Kummarao,

Can you pls check the Bangalore article.It contains many vandals such as Majority Kannadigas and Minority Tamilians etc.

Arunkumar P.R 05:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Guntur

Thanks for your feedback on the Guntur and related pics that I added. I don't have any pics on Amaravati Stupa etc, but hopefully during my next trip to India.

Corrections

I have corrected historically unacceptable statements from novice web site by Alduri in Telugu script and Botiprollu pages. Your claims are not accepted by majority of historians.Dineshkannambadi 23:50, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not trying to have an edit war with you, just letting you know that you cant use info from one source (which is from an engineering student), spread it all across articles and create your own version of history. Also, even basic info you had provided was wrong.

• Rashtrakuta of Manyakheta ruled from 8-10th centuries
• They ruled from Manyakheta in Karnataka for most part.
• Ranna is not from Vengi, but from Bijapur/Bagalkot region. I can add several citations for this.
• The Botiprollu script is only one stage in the development of early script which originated from Brahmi script.
• You cant go around claiming the Chalukyas came from this region. Only the Alduri web page claims that. There is no sanction from majority of historians.WP:UNDUE.
• I have also removed the series of FALSE citations you had provided claiming the Bhattiprolu script gave rise to Kannada script. Not one of those sources, other than the Alduri page speaks of it.
• OR Feel free to alter the above statement that Kannada and Telugu scripts evolved from the Southern Brahmi script, a sample of which is found in the Bottiprolu urn inscription. Dont make false claims that the scripts themselves evolved from the Bottiprolu urn.

Hope you understand that Wiki is an encyclopedia, not a Guntur news paper.Dineshkannambadi 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Mini pics

These mini pics are useful for the context. I will reduce their pixel size to go with the text. Thanks. gpics 09:24, July 17th EST.

Plz. see

Plz. see this immediately. --Altruism^{To talk} 10:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I think some of our earlier reports were not properly done. This is a case of ethnocentrism as pointed out by another user You can also reach me by email (see my userboxes) if you want. --Altruism^{To talk} 11:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Dutt

I remember my dad recalling several years ago, that this V L Dutt marrying the daughter of some Muchyaala zamindar, was the talk of their village, 4-5 decades ago. Only after your mention, was I was able to recollect this fact and associate with Muktyala Raja . V L Dutt once came to our village for attending the funeral of his 1^st cousin, 5-6 yrs. ago (who came back to our village on adoption.) Dutt's grandfather hailed from our village before being adopted by relatives in Bellamvaripalem. Incidentally, Ramakrishna's sister's daughter (niece) is one Ms. Santhamma in Guntur, whose name you might have heard of.--Altruism^{To talk} 11:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Makineni Basavapunnaiah

Basavapunnaiah was hardly a simple man. He had expensive tastes like 555 etc. even several decades ago! Yes, this Ms. Udayam is Mr. Moturi Hanumantha Rao's spouse, to whose house I had been to several years ago. You can see this article on Comrade MH by Mr. L Bala Gangadhara Rao, Basavapunnaiah's brother-in-law. LBG, MB and MH were central polit bureau members of the CPI-M. Ms. Vasireddy Seethadevi is LBG's sisters's sister-in-law--Altruism^{To talk} 11:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations!!!

Happy to hear that you have taken over as the director of a national level research institution. -- Altruism^{To talk} 05:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Finally back! Glad to hear from you again. Which article are you talking about? I've started anti-vandalism for some days now, after downloading some tools, created by some benevolent, prog.-savvy users. I could install the tools for you if you want.--Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 06:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Tools

Plz. copy the contents (only first 2 lines) of this page into User:Kumarrao/monobook.js (if you're using the Monobook theme--see preferences). After that, do a hard reload (Ctrl+Shift+R for Mozilla OR Ctrl+F5 in IE). I can't copy contents into your page. Any questions plz. ask. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 11:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Do have a look at these tips. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 11:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The tools are for various purposes; general, anti-vandal etc.They're good. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 11:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Citation templates

Plz. see this Citation_templates. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 12:02, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Plz. see

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Rajputs and Talk:List of Kammas --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 13:10, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Additions

I did notice those changes, but thought that removing them would be inappropriate, given the fact that other names exist in the section. Thanks a lot for the appreciation. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 05:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Yes, just because some members of communities have allegiance to some parties, doesn't mean the community should be identified with parties. I'll be reasonably modifying the article (Brahmaiah) shortly. Assuming he was born in 1889 (1989 in article). --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 05:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Plz. have a look at Gottipati Brahmaiah. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 05:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Possible Vandalism

Plz. see Telugu script, where some possible vandals are deleting RS references also, terming them non-RS. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 06:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Origin of Vijayanagara Empire

Kumarrao, many of your citations dont have page numbers, many others have lumped page numbers (ex:pp22-35). You need to provide page specific citation or atleast specific to a few pages for context, on demand. This is wiki policy you could verify. Please provide page specific citation or the matter will be brought up with an admin and a tag attached to your edits. Sometimes lumped citations are ok, but the body of the article must be more specific so others can verify the citations.Dineshkannambadi 12:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Dont get carried away. When I said there should be page numbers, I was talking about book citations, not web citations. web citations should be accessable, sometimes their links change and a user who added the link may not be aware of it unless pointed to it. I believe I have provided page numbers for all my book citations, to the best of my knowlege. If any are missing, let me know and I have the resources to fullfil it. Dineshkannambadi 14:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Reverting edits

Plz. see User_talk:Kumarrao#Tools. Plz. also see Talk:Telugu script. --Altruism^{T a l k - Contribs.} 05:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

You're Invited!

Hello! I thought you may be interested in joining WikiProject Dravidian civilizations. We work on creating, expanding and making general changes to Dravidian related articles. If you would be interested in joining feel free to visit the Participants Page! Thank You.

Wiki Raja 22:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Kamma

We are all here to improve articles, dont we?. It is good that you are willing to accept the issues in the article. Rather than speculating on anything, it would be good if you could work on the article. I could have removed the sections totally since they are nothing but cruft. But I have refrained from doing so, so that the authors who actually wrote those sections could do something about it. Let me know if I can be of any more help? -- ¿Amar៛^{Talk to me/My edits}05:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome and thank you for your interest in WikiProject Dravidian civilizations. Please take the time to add username to our members list here. Regards. Wiki Raja 20:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to the WikiProject Dravidian civilizations! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Dravidian related topics.

A few features that you might find helpful:

• The Announcements and Open tasks section can be watchlist it if you're interested.
• Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is recommended that you watchlist it.
• The project has a monthly newsletter; it will normally be delivered as a link, but several other formats are available.

There are a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—or little—you like:

• Interested in working on a more complete article? The peer review department of the project would welcome your help!
• Interested in a particular area of a Dravidian groups history, geography, culture etc. ? There is already one task force, and you could initiate the creation of more focusing on specific topics or periods.
• Want to know how good our articles are? The assessment department is working on rating the quality of every military history article in Wikipedia.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around!

Wiki Raja 15:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

I have blocked your sockpuppet, Tejam (talk · contribs), which you used to edit war alongside you, indefinitely. Please do not use sockpuppets in violation of our policy on sockpuppetry in the future. Picaroon (t) 03:36, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

My talk page

Hi, you have asked me to intervene in some telugu script edit wars.

I have no knowledge of orgin of scripts. I contributed to Vijayanagar Empire since I read about them and literature during their period many times in my books and also visited their places.

Moreover If someone does not agree with you for something and you tried to argue couple of times, I suggest you to work on some other articles and come back again after the other author completed his contributions. Meanwhile with your other contributions you can gain credibility by the time you come back to discussion. Also if you have strong references and your refernce and others' do not agree on something, you can write two paragraphs about each of them in an article. Try this and nobody disagrees with it.

Wikipedia is ony one part of information world, and it is just another reference and you can read with pinch of salt.

mlpkr 17:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)