User talk:King of Hearts/Archive/2021/08
Administrators' newsletter – July 2021 edit
News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2021).
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Guideline and policy news
- An RfC is open to add a delay of one week from nomination to deletion for G13 speedy deletions.
Technical news
- Last week all wikis were very slow or not accessible for 30 minutes. This was due to server lag caused by regenerating dynamic lists on the Russian Wikinews after a large bulk import. (T287380)
Arbitration
- Following an amendment request, the committee has clarified that the Talk page exception to the 500/30 rule in remedy 5 of the Palestine-Israel articles 4 case does not apply to requested move discussions.
Miscellaneous
- You can vote for candidates in the 2021 Board of Trustees elections from 4 August to 17 August. Four community elected seats are up for election.
List of Admiralty Charts 1967 edit
I see that the decision on the article is transwiki to Wikisource, and that you are the admin on this. What next? The article is still there on WP. How is the transfer managed? I have used Wikisource but never contributed material, so I am not familiar with the procedures. Do I, as creator of the page, need to be involved, or does this just happen? Thanks Kognos (talk) 10:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent changes
If your wiki uses markup like <div class="mw-content-ltr">or<div class="mw-content-rtl">without the requireddirattribute, then these will no longer work in 2 weeks. There is a short-term fix that can be added to your local wiki's Common.css page, which is explained at T287701. From now on, all usages should include the full attributes, for example:<div class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr" lang="en">or<div class="mw-content-rtl" dir="rtl" lang="he">. This also applies to some other HTML tags, such asspanorcode. You can find existing examples on your wiki that need to be updated, using the instructions at T287701.- Reminder: Wikimedia has migrated to the Libera Chat IRC network, from the old Freenode network. Local documentation should be updated.
Problems
- Last week, all wikis had slow access or no access for 30 minutes. There was a problem with generating dynamic lists of articles on the Russian Wikinews, due to the bulk import of 200,000+ new articles over 3 days, which led to database problems. The problematic feature has been disabled on that wiki and developers are discussing if it can be fixed properly. [1][2]
Changes later this week
- When adding links to a page using VisualEditor or the 2017 wikitext editor, disambiguation pages will now only appear at the bottom of search results. This is because users do not often want to link to disambiguation pages. [3]
The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 3 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 4 August. It will be on all wikis from 5 August (calendar).
Future changes
- The team of the Wikipedia app for Android is working on communication in the app. The developers are working on how to talk to other editors and get notifications. You can read more. They are looking for users who want to test the plans. Any editor who has an Android phone and is willing to download the app can do this.
- The Beta Feature for Discussion tools will be updated in the coming weeks. You will be able to subscribe to individual sections on a talk page at more wikis. You can test this now by adding
?dtenable=1to the end of the talk page's URL (example).
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
20:45, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Featured picture scheduled for POTD edit
Hi King of Hearts,
This is to let you know that the featured picture File:Inspiration Point Bryce Canyon November 2018 panorama.jpg, which you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for August 19, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-08-19. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:54, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
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Bryce Canyon National Park is an American national park located in southwestern Utah. The major feature of the park is Bryce Canyon, which despite its name, is not a canyon, but a collection of giant natural amphitheaters along the eastern side of the Paunsaugunt Plateau. This panoramic view, as seen from Inspiration Point, shows the colorful Claron Formation, from which the park's delicate hoodoos are carved; the sediments were laid down in a system of streams and lakes that existed from 63 to about 40 million years ago (from the Paleocene to the Eocene epochs). The brown, pink and red colors are from hematite, the yellows from limonite, and the purples from pyrolusite. Photograph credit: Tony Jin
Recently featured:
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Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Problems
- You can read but not edit 17 wikis for a few minutes on 10 August. This is planned at 05:00 UTC. This is because of work on the database. [4]
Changes later this week
- The Wikimania Hackathon will take place remotely on 13 August, starting at 5:00 UTC, for 24 hours. You can participate in many ways. You can still propose projects and sessions.
- The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 10 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 11 August. It will be on all wikis from 12 August (calendar).
- The old CSS
<div class="visualClear"></div>will not be supported after 12 August. Instead, templates and pages should use<div style="clear:both;"></div>. Please help to replace any existing uses on your wiki. There are global-search links available at T287962.
Future changes
- The Wikipedia Library is a place for Wikipedia editors to get access to sources. There is an extension which has a new function to tell users when they can take part in it. It will use notifications. It will start pinging the first users in September. It will ping more users later. [5]
- Vue.js will be the JavaScript framework for MediaWiki in the future. [6]
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
16:18, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
Undeletion request edit
Hello King of Hearts. Please restore the ff. files in accordance with newly-accepted consensus at Commons on exceptions of Italian works by deceased authors (c:Template:FoP-Italy):
- both by Carlo Scarpa who died in 1978.
- File:Galuppi-Burano.jpg - assuming this is this sculpture, then most likely OK now as its artist died in 2005.
- File:Venetie Italie 223.jpg - the upload log claims it was created by Marino Marini, who seems to be Marino Marini (sculptor) who is also already deceased.
I once tried requesting the undeletion at WP:UNDEL, but for some reason my requests were unnoticed. They are now archived at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion/Archive 362.
I am now requesting for your restoration of these, as I recently saw your closure of several Italian pending FOP cases as kept (like c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Torre Galfa (Milan) and c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Milano - panoramio (28).jpg). Thank you. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 12:15, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
.jpg){kind=link}
Sat Aug 14: Wikimania Wiknic NYC edit
| August 14, 12-5pm: Wikimania Wiknic NYC | |
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 You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for a planned socially-distanced Wiknic ("the picnic anyone can edit") in Brooklyn's Prospect Park to coincide with the virtual Wikimania 2021. For this occasion, and to allow more space as desired, we have individually packed lunches provided by the chapter, and attendees are encouraged to RSVP at Eventbrite and give sandwich/entree orders.
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--Wikimedia New York City Team 18:47, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
Speedy close? edit
Please revert your speedy close of this RM here which has significant support. Just because a proposal contradicts a guideline doesn't mean consensus can't change or choose to IAR the guideline in a given case. I don't think a speedy close is justified here. And WP:SPEEDY does not even apply to RM discussions anyway. Please allow it to run its course. Thanks. --В²C ☎ 03:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- By speedy I actually mean WP:SNOW - over the years many RMs have been attempted in contravention of WP:USPLACE, and they have never succeeded. And even if a slim majority happen to support such a result at a particular discussion (which this RM was not trending towards by the way), it is far more likely just luck of the draw in terms of who showed up rather than evidence of consensus changing. (If you have a population where 60-70% of people support something, and you take enough random samples of 10 people, you'll eventually end up with one where the opposition is a majority.) That is partly what WP:LOCALCONSENSUS is for; WP:IAR can only override a guideline with an overwhelming consensus. The right place to discuss USPLACE is on the talk page of the guideline, which I see is already ongoing. Why not steer that discussion towards your preferred view, and if you succeed restart the RM? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:48, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- That may be good advice—thank you—but it’s beside the point, which is about the appropriateness of your premature close of an ongoing RM discussion. SNOW is rarely used in RMs and normally only where the discussion is unanimously agreed upon one way or another. I suggest you reread WP:SNOWBALL and pay particular attention to WP:SNOW#The snowball test, which this case does not meet, and WP:SNOW#A cautionary note. Thanks. —-В²C ☎ 05:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- In a normal discussion, a mere majority of well-thought arguments is sufficient to carry the day. In this discussion, an overwhelming supermajority is required to override WP:USPLACE, and that's just not going to happen; it's about as likely as an AfD with 10 unanimous deletes turning into a slim majority to keep. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:48, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- (User talk page watcher here) @Born2cycle: while I support for simplification of the names, in my opinion KoH is right. You cannot initiate any new move requests while a centralized discussion is ongoing. That is what happened to our case, in which the use of cityname-only convention for uniquely-named Philippine towns was only "institutionalized" thru MOSPHIL during mid-2020 (though I can now see some shortcomings of this convention such as the case of Bulusan). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 05:56, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- You have it backwards. The RM was proposed three days before the centralized discussion was started. The close of the ongoing active RM was premature when it was suddenly closed days before it would elapse and be ready for closure. Highly inappropriate. You’ve tried to rationalize this close in three different ways now, none of which apply (SPEEDY, SNOW, and “started while centralized discussion is ongoing”). Please. This is ridiculous. —В²C ☎ 10:01, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- B2C: The RM was flawed from the outset. You should have directed User:PK2, the technical requester, to USPLACE, PERENNIAL, or even the Village Pump since the subject is (as I'm sure you're aware) flagged as a perennially-rejected proposal, and since their less-than-one-sentence request gives no indication of any familiarity with these guidelines. They may not have even wished to continue with the request had that been made clear. Choosing instead to immediately elevate the request into an RM of your own as a means of debating the subject again was disruptive. For a variety of reasons, closure was justified. ╠╣uw [talk] 13:59, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- No, it wasn’t justified. All of these unjustified excuses don’t allow for consensus to change which happens through discussion of individual cases exactly like this one, as well as through centralized overall discussions. It’s WP:Status quo stonewalling. —В²C ☎ 17:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think we just fundamentally disagree on what WP:IAR means. For me, IAR does not mean to attempt to gradually chip away at a guideline until it ceases to be enforced. IAR is for situations that come up rarely, where we ignore a policy or guideline as a one-off because the situation demands it, but is unlikely to be invoked for similar situations in the future. If there is a large set of instances in which you believe a guideline is wrong, then the correct procedure is to propose to change it. We should never get in a habit of invoking IAR in a similar manner on the same guideline on a variety of cases (which I assume is your intention here; as a final outcome, having the AP cities + Omaha be the only cities without a state would make no one happy). -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:44, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- It’s for both. The relevant purpose here is WP:CCC. And you don’t even need IAR to propose a change contrary to previously established consensus. So there’s no rule-breaking involved in such a proposal, and no justification to close it prior to it elapsing. —18:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- And that's where we disagree. As I understand it, IAR is not for changing consensus. It is for doing something contrary to sitewide consensus even as you continue to acknowledge its general applicability. Basically, you shouldn't use IAR because you disagree with a rule; you should only use it when a rule ought not be applied in a particular case for very special reasons. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:57, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- It’s for both. The relevant purpose here is WP:CCC. And you don’t even need IAR to propose a change contrary to previously established consensus. So there’s no rule-breaking involved in such a proposal, and no justification to close it prior to it elapsing. —18:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think we just fundamentally disagree on what WP:IAR means. For me, IAR does not mean to attempt to gradually chip away at a guideline until it ceases to be enforced. IAR is for situations that come up rarely, where we ignore a policy or guideline as a one-off because the situation demands it, but is unlikely to be invoked for similar situations in the future. If there is a large set of instances in which you believe a guideline is wrong, then the correct procedure is to propose to change it. We should never get in a habit of invoking IAR in a similar manner on the same guideline on a variety of cases (which I assume is your intention here; as a final outcome, having the AP cities + Omaha be the only cities without a state would make no one happy). -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:44, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- No, it wasn’t justified. All of these unjustified excuses don’t allow for consensus to change which happens through discussion of individual cases exactly like this one, as well as through centralized overall discussions. It’s WP:Status quo stonewalling. —В²C ☎ 17:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- B2C: The RM was flawed from the outset. You should have directed User:PK2, the technical requester, to USPLACE, PERENNIAL, or even the Village Pump since the subject is (as I'm sure you're aware) flagged as a perennially-rejected proposal, and since their less-than-one-sentence request gives no indication of any familiarity with these guidelines. They may not have even wished to continue with the request had that been made clear. Choosing instead to immediately elevate the request into an RM of your own as a means of debating the subject again was disruptive. For a variety of reasons, closure was justified. ╠╣uw [talk] 13:59, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- You have it backwards. The RM was proposed three days before the centralized discussion was started. The close of the ongoing active RM was premature when it was suddenly closed days before it would elapse and be ready for closure. Highly inappropriate. You’ve tried to rationalize this close in three different ways now, none of which apply (SPEEDY, SNOW, and “started while centralized discussion is ongoing”). Please. This is ridiculous. —В²C ☎ 10:01, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- That may be good advice—thank you—but it’s beside the point, which is about the appropriateness of your premature close of an ongoing RM discussion. SNOW is rarely used in RMs and normally only where the discussion is unanimously agreed upon one way or another. I suggest you reread WP:SNOWBALL and pay particular attention to WP:SNOW#The snowball test, which this case does not meet, and WP:SNOW#A cautionary note. Thanks. —-В²C ☎ 05:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent changes
- You can add language links in the sidebar in the new Vector skin again. You do this by connecting the page to a Wikidata item. The new Vector skin has moved the language links but the new language selector cannot add language links yet. [7]
Problems
- There was a problem on wikis which use the Translate extension. Translations were not updated or were replaced with the English text. The problems have been fixed. [8][9][10]
Changes later this week
- A revision tag will soon be added to edits that add links to disambiguation pages. This is because these links are usually added by accident. The tag will allow editors to easily find the broken links and fix them. If your wiki does not like this feature, it can be hidden. [11]
- Would you like to help improve the information about tools? Would you like to attend or help organize a small virtual meetup for your community to discuss the list of tools? Please get in touch on the Toolhub Quality Signal Sessions talk page. We are also looking for feedback from tool maintainers on some specific questions.
- In the past, edits to any page in your user talk space ignored your mute list, e.g. sub-pages. Starting this week, this is only true for edits to your talk page. [12]
- The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 17 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 18 August. It will be on all wikis from 19 August (calendar).
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
19:25, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent changes
- The Score extension (
<score>notation) has been re-enabled on public wikis and upgraded to a newer version. Some musical score functionality may no longer work because the extension is only enabled in "safe mode". The security issue has been fixed and an advisory published.
Problems
- You will be able to read but not edit some wikis for a few minutes on 25 August. This will happen around 06:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance. During this time, operations on the CentralAuth will also not be possible.
Changes later this week
- The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 24 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 25 August. It will be on all wikis from 26 August (calendar).
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
21:57, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
August 25: ONLINE WikiWednesday Salon NYC edit
| August 25, 7pm: ONLINE WikiWednesday Salon NYC | |
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 You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening salon (7-8pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop. To join the meeting from your computer or smartphone, just visit this link. More information about how to connect is available on the meetup page. We look forward to seeing local Wikimedians, but would also like to invite folks from the greater New York metropolitan area (and beyond!) who might not typically be able to join us in person! If there's a project you'd like to share or a question you'd like answered, just let us know by adding it to the agenda or the talk page.
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(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)
--Wikimedia New York City Team 14:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Read-only reminder edit
A maintenance operation will be performed on Wednesday August 25 06:00 UTC. It should only last for a few minutes.
Also during this time, operations on the CentralAuth will not be possible (GlobalRenames, changing/confirming e-mail addresses, logging into new wikis, password changes).
For more details about the operation and on all impacted services, please check on Phabricator.
A banner will be displayed 30 minutes before the operation.
Please help your community to be aware of this maintenance operation. Thank you!
20:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
You closed the discussion as a redirect but there was only one person who proposed redirect and they said Delete or redirect. Why did you choose redirect?...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:06, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- The purpose of an AfD is not to determine whether a page should exist at a particular title; that is the job of RfD/RM. The purpose of an AfD is to determine whether a topic deserves an individual article, regardless of where it is located. None of the "delete" !voters presented an argument as to why the article history should be erased or why the redirect is inappropriate, so they can be considered to implicitly support redirection. If anyone disagrees with the redirect, they can nominate it for RfD. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 20:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) I can sort of see both sides to this, especially as the AfD seemingly had no clear consensus either way. Maybe an NC closure would have been more appropriate (if perhaps, less ideal) to allow for a new listing with fresh input. A redirect can almost be considered a de facto delete though, as delete had a credible amount of support. Maybe KoH needs to consider expanding upon their AfD closure rationale better in future (especially as I queried an AfD closure by KoH here not long ago, also due to unclear rationale). Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- No, I saw a clear consensus here to delete/redirect. While WP:GNG is met, WP:NEVENT is one of the few SNGs that strengthens GNG (along with WP:NCORP), so meeting GNG alone is not sufficient. Any "new listing with fresh input" should not discuss whether the article belongs (it doesn't), but rather whether the page should stay (i.e. an RfD). -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- KoH, for what it's worth, I don't think the redirect (for which I couldn't personally care less about), was a "clear" consensus, though the delete arguments were stronger, not overwhelming. I only really jumped in on this to suggest that you may want to consider expanding on your AfD closure rationales, as many closers already do, as that would at least relay your closure reasoning to involved editors. I can see why WilliamJE raised an eyebrow at this, as I did on another AfD you closed recently. Maybe just take it into account in future? Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- No, I saw a clear consensus here to delete/redirect. While WP:GNG is met, WP:NEVENT is one of the few SNGs that strengthens GNG (along with WP:NCORP), so meeting GNG alone is not sufficient. Any "new listing with fresh input" should not discuss whether the article belongs (it doesn't), but rather whether the page should stay (i.e. an RfD). -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) I can sort of see both sides to this, especially as the AfD seemingly had no clear consensus either way. Maybe an NC closure would have been more appropriate (if perhaps, less ideal) to allow for a new listing with fresh input. A redirect can almost be considered a de facto delete though, as delete had a credible amount of support. Maybe KoH needs to consider expanding upon their AfD closure rationale better in future (especially as I queried an AfD closure by KoH here not long ago, also due to unclear rationale). Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Draft? edit
Hello King of Hearts, thank you for creating the draft, but I am not sure how to get it out of a draft once final clean up or additions are made. Was wondering if I could ask you to guide or point me to where it is written? Thanks. TataofTata (talk) 16:16, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
- You can move it yourself: Special:MovePage/Draft:2009 Istanbul Molotov Bus Attack. However, please ensure that it is well-cited and ready for the main namespace before moving. You don't want someone nominating it for deletion again. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:19, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
- Ah ok I see, thank you. TataofTata (talk) 20:03, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
The Signpost: 29 August 2021 edit
- News and notes: Enough time left to vote! IP ban
- In the media: Vive la différence!
- Wikimedians of the year: Seven Wikimedians of the year
- Gallery: Our community in 20 graphs
- News from Wiki Education: Changing the face of Wikipedia
- Recent research: IP editors, inclusiveness and empathy, cyclones, and world heritage
- WikiProject report: WikiProject Days of the Year Interview
- Traffic report: Olympics, movies, and Afghanistan
- Community view: Making Olympic history on Wikipedia
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent changes
- Some musical score syntax no longer works and may needed to be updated, you can check Category:Pages with score rendering errors on your wiki for a list of pages with errors.
Problems
- Musical scores were unable to render lyrics in some languages because of missing fonts. This has been fixed now. If your language would prefer a different font, please file a request in Phabricator. [13]
Changes later this week
- The parameters for how you obtain tokens in the MediaWiki API were changed in 2014. The old way will no longer work from 1 September. Scripts, bots and tools that use the parameters from before the 2014 change need to be updated. You can read more about this.
- The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 31 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 1 September. It will be on all wikis from 2 September (calendar).
Future changes
- You will be able to read but not edit Commons for a few minutes on 6 September. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance.
- All wikis will be read-only for a few minutes in the week of 13 September. More information will be published in Tech News later. It will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks. [14]
Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
15:59, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Unprotection request for FC Bayern Munich edit
Hi, the article FC Bayern Munich was pending-changes protected by you due to persistent vandalism back in 2013. Vandalism is infrequent now and the article is edited a lot, so I don't think it is a good candidate for pending changes protection anymore. Thanks –Gladamas (talk · contribs) 23:38, 30 August 2021 (UTC)