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Archive 3: January 2007 — June 2007

Auckland Meetup 2 Scheduled - Feb 10 2007

You are invited to Auckland Meetup 2 on the afternoon of Saturday February 10th 2007 at Galbraith's Ale House in Mt Eden. Please see Wikipedia:Meetup/Auckland 2 for details. You can also bookmark Wikipedia:Meetup/Auckland to be informed of future NZ meetups. - SimonLyall 06:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

POTY 2006

The arrangements for the Commons:Picture of the Year 2006 competition are now complete, and voting will start tomorrow, Feb 1st. All the featured pictures promoted last year are automatically nominated. As the creator of one or more images nominated for the election we invite you to participate in the event. Alvesgaspar 12:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC) {{Jan}}

Treaty

Thanks for the compliment :) Couldn't have done it without Tirana tho... perhaps this is that partnership thing that people keep talking about. --Helenalex 22:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The principle of partnership, even. Or reasonable co-operation. Sorry. You guys give me compliments and far too much credit, and I make lame Treaty jokes in return. --Tirana 04:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

History of Otago

It does seem very reliant on old stuff, but then sometimes the old stuff is all there is. I think an expert on this would probably have a few problems with it, but I don't know enough about either Otago or pre-European Maori to have an informed judgement. --Helenalex 00:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a shame that User:Peter Entwisle is no longer contributing - he wrote the History of Dunedin article and also - literally - wrote the book on Otago history (he's one of Dn's top historians). Grutness...wha? 01:57, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

A shame indeed. Never mind, another will come along one day... Kahuroa 03:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Kiwi species range map

Any objections if I internationalise this so I can use it on Māori wikipedia?

Feel free - if you want to use any of the maps I've made, then go for it. Unfortunately I haven't still got the original but it should be pretty easy for you to change it over.

PS - rumours of panic in Auckland over a tiny earthquake were manufactured by the media. It barely caused a ripple on my latte.

Ah good - not an early warning sign of Rangitoto about to burp, then :) Grutness...wha? 11:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Tu Pounamu IV

Do you know anything about Tu Pounamu IV? The page seems suspect for all sorts of reasons, but for all I know this guy really exists and is deserving of a page. Are there any Ngati Awa wikipedians out there? --Helenalex 00:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Auraka

Gruß. If you have time, would you perhaps be willing to retranslate the article Auraka using en:Auraka as a source? The German article reflects an earlier version, before some research threw some light on the facts. Thanks/Vielen Dank Kahuroa 05:12, 6. Mär. 2007 (CET)

My pleasure! At your request: de:Diskussion:Auraka#Übersetzung (neue Fassung) --ThT 08:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Maori monarchs

I saw your reversion at Tuheitia Paki. Could you check the edit made by the same anon at Style (manner of address) please.-gadfium 08:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes for NZ towns

Hi K - that's probably a pretty reasonable idea. I've been worried about the userboxes for a while, since a lot of them seem to have a mishmash of info - often including contradictory population info based on town vs council vs region vs whatever. Part of the reason I made all those standardised maps was to try to get a lot of the articles looking a bit more uniform. You're right that it would need a bit of discussion, but the Aussie town infobox is probably a good place to start. Grutness...wha? 10:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

"New Zealand" culture

I've been working on the Culture of New Zealand page and have come to the conclusion that one of the reasons why it is not very good is that whoever originally wrote it doesn't know the difference between Pakeha culture and New Zealand culture in general. Since I don't think there is a single NZ culture, I've proposed renaming the page Cultures of New Zealand (plural), moving all the specifically Pakeha stuff to Pakeha culture and limiting the NZ culture page to brief overviews of Maori, Pakeha and other NZ cultures and how they interact, as well as the arts. I'd appreciate you having a look (there is a fuller proposal and explanation on the talk page) and commenting if you have an opinion one way or the other. --Helenalex 05:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Petroica reference tag

I put the tag up, not because i doubt that Petroica is a genus but because they didn't give a reference to back up the statement that the genus is not related to european robins. There are probably some cases like this where you're right and I could go ahead and do it myself.. but I put these tags on many massive articles as well in which its not a case of: 'Hey lazybones! fix this because I think it needs it!!"- in most cases, the creators of these pages will be watching them and seeing as these people created those articles (and will probably remember where they got the info. from)- it will thus be straightforward process for them to add in references- but it would be a baffling ordeal for anyone else-( I'm saying this from experience). Its also simultaneously pointing out to people the importance of references in terms of making a good wikipedia article. Kotare 00:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your Godwit edit

Although my wife is of Maori ethnicity I don't have any any Maori myself and I wasn't confident enough to replace the previous (rather tentative) language regarding the Maori name. ...Gaimhreadhan^{(kiwiexile at DMOZ)} • 14:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Maori migration canoes

If the note on Moeka'a and Walter book is off topic in this article, that means the reference itself is off topic... It is true that this book doesn't directly deals with maori migration in New Zealand, but with some maori migrations in Cook Islands, but aren't you the one who added the reference ? Nevers

There's always April

Pity we let March go by without causing another debacle... Kahuroa 08:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

There are so many other months. Why limit ourselves to April! (Nice to hear from you; all is well?) Bucketsofg 00:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Kia Ora

Hi Kahuroa, I've noticed you around, and lately saw ur edits to some of my originals so I just wanted to say a big fai'aksea (thankyou) for your excellent edits to my page, and for your work in general in higlighting the highly under-represented Polynesian and Maori topics that ur articles cover. Please continue to peruse and improve my work, I'm a relative newbie and am thankful for all the improvements made to my pages.

Take careMattbray 13:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Rotuman

Hi Kahuroa

I'm slowly assembling a Wikipedia to be in Rotuman and hereby invite you to vote for it's inclusion here. Please help me bring this dream for such an important resource into reality.

Thanks and Noa'ia! Mattbray 07:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Your edit to Tangaroa: Change from "Elsewhere in Polynesia" to "Elsewhere in the Pacific"

The above change was unnecessary. Rotuma, while part of the nation of Fiji, is immensely culturally distinct, and Rotumans look, and identif themselves as Polynesians. I think it's fine to leave the title as "Elsewhere in Polynesia" (this is all becuase I'm presuming you changed the title thinking Rotuman were Melanesian or Micronesian. If I'm wrong in this assumption, apologies.) Kia ora --Mattbray 00:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually 'Polynesian' mythological figures like Tangaroa or Maui are known outside of Polynesia. Tāwhaki is another who is known across the Pacific too, outside of what the Europeans divided up and called Polynesia and Melanesia. So the title change isn't necessarily one which has anything to do with whether or not Rotuma is Polynesian, but is more inclusive and reflects the reality better. Our legends are actually Pacific rather than just Polynesian or Melanesian Kahuroa 05:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

PS - Have you seen the film "the Land has Ears" by Merata Mita, a Māori director, which is set on Rotuma? Neat film. So I know what Rotuman people look like, and actually I met some in Fiji one time. Kahuroa 06:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I have seen the film, "The Land Has Eyes", I understand Merata was the executive producer. We Rotumans are all quite proud of the film as an accurate (albeit low budget) representation of one of our great myths. I intend to write articles both on the film and the myth when I get the time.... Back to the issues with the Polynesia template, I was aware that Rotuman was not by definition a Polynesian language, but didn't know that navbox was linguistically based, so maybe we could use the "Polynesia" template to refer to polynesian cultures and people, and then create another specifically referring to the lingustic subdivision of "Polynesia" within East Fijian-Polynesian? What do you think --Mattbray 06:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. I see where you are coming from. A linguistic template for use on Polynesian language pages as defined by linguistics - that might work, except the linguists might say that that is already well covered by the Language Infobox. But what pages would the new template be used on? Could be tricky defining what it applies to and where the lines would be drawn. Might be controversial, and we would need to base it on something verifiable... Kahuroa 06:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

PS - is there a political element to this? IE, do Rotumans feel that they don't want to be part of Fiji and want their independence? Kahuroa 06:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Not at all, certainly not to the majority. There were movements proposing independence but such propnents are few and far between. Back to what I was saying, the linguistic template, (which should clearly specify that it is) could be used on the language pages, whereas the "Polynesia" or "Polynesian Islands" could be put on pages referring to islands of the polynesian triangle as well as polynesian outliers pages for culture history or geographic subjects. I just find that this template Template:Polynesia is ambiguous if it meant to refer to Polynesia in a linguistic sense, because in seeing it, it seemed (to me) to refer to the geographic and then the cultural group. --Mattbray 07:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm soon writing an article about the cession of Rotuma to Britain. Rotumans have throughout their history been far more closely in contact with their polynesian neighbours, rather than Fiji. The cession to Britain was the result of a colonial blunder, while pre-European contact the connection could barely be made between the two. While historically we have had lttle to do with each other in the long run, modern Rotumans for the most part live in Fiji main and feel a connection to the nation, as well as their very distinct home island. Mattbray 07:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The tricky thing with the idea of 'Polynesian Islands' would be finding a definition from an authoritative source that includes Rotuma without including the rest of Fiji. Kahuroa 07:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Wooden shelters

I *thought* that's what you were talking about, but my knowledge of Maori is so tenuous I wasn't sure whether I was, um, barking up the wrong tree :) BTW, I've never got round to asking about your user name - long hawk? tall chief? Grutness...wha? 13:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Kāhu = hawk, roa = long. Flying around keeping an eye on things from a long way away... I didn't think about it, its just what came into my head when I logged on. Kahuroa 05:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

wrens

Bugs me too. But apparently it is decreed thusly - article titles are singular wherever possible. Ho hum. Sabine's Sunbird talk 05:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Pisonia brunoniana

On 13 May, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pisonia brunoniana, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 07:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu

Hello, Kahuroa. May I ask why you removed the template to the recording?--Tdxiang (Talk) 03:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Whakatane

Kia ora, I've added something to your comment on the "Discussion" page for Whakatane. So much to do, so little time ...! MisterCDE 04:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with what's in "Te Ara", but knowing Jock Phillips (from the DNZB project) it should be reasonable, although of course it all depends on individual authors. The online version does not appear to have a very good search engine. I have a copy of Horouta and Rongo Halbert's version of events based on East Coast whakapapa sounds good to me (Toi te Huatahi and Toi Kairakau are 2 different individuals generations apart, and there is likewise an identity confusion with Kupe and Whatonga). He blames the confusion on Tuhoe, which of course is where Best seems to have got all his info. So if you want, I can put that in, otherwise it's up to you ... I live in Ahitereiria these days, but I have an extensive library. MisterCDE 03:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

You're right - the search engine for Te Ara doesn't turn up much, tho here's the entry for Whakatāne which could be useful for the article generally. I'm starting to think it might be better to start an article on the 2 Toi (or perhaps an article on each?) and when that's done the Whakatane article could just link there. It would be a change - ie to start from the current research rather than have to do a rewrite as I did for Kupe. Te Ara is pretty strong in blaming it on Smith starting here for instance. I'm a bit pressed this week in particular but could look at it later on - if you wanted to start it from your library, fine. Kahuroa 05:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Same here, I'm supposed to be working! I think the right approach is to have biog articles on some at least of the Tois ... there are actually 3 in the whakapapa given by Halbert and also by John Steedman(2 called te Huatahi and 1 Kairakau), particularly Toi te Huatahi II who is the one who had Whatonga as his grandson. But it's complex stuff ... your wiki article on Kupe is fantastic, one would aim at the same sort of thing for Toi. I may or may not get around to it but like you not this week for sure. MisterCDE 04:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

That's the trouble with Wikipedia... so many things needing to be done ... Kahuroa 04:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I've got a bad dose of the flu. But I've made a start, see Toi and Toi (name). MisterCDE 04:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Well done Mr CDE. I've been working on plants lately, for this and for the Māori Wiki. I do have my doubts about the ultimate authenticity of T-t-h II, so it will be interesting to see what your material says. I changed the names slightly to conform to the Māori Language Commission conventions. Kahuroa 05:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you did seems to have clobbered Toi (name)? MisterCDE 05:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC) Also, last I heard there were two mainland NZ species of Myoporum, one very rare found only at Kawhia? MisterCDE 05:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe instead of creating pages for each Toi we should just list them on Toi (name) with some more details? I don't know there would be enough for a page each, and you've made a start ... I was thinking of Myoporum debile, but I see it's now called Eremophila debilis. Cheers MisterCDE 03:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Not convinced about Toi and Whatonga ... there are 3 people named Toi here, and they are not coincident (as someone, Halbert I think, pointed out, Toi-Kairakau can't be called Toi-te-Huatahi because whakapapa show clearly he was not an only child). So I think it's better to leave Whatonga out of the title. So maybe change Toi (name) (and even its title) so that it doesn't contain the general stuff about the name, just the historical characters? MisterCDE 05:05, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe so, maybe just Toi then - re Toi-te-huatahi, logic cannot always be applied to traditions - they are almost never self-critical or self-analytical until writing and literacy comes along, because those are characteristics of written rather than oral cultures. Even Toi-te-huatahi could mean either 'only child' or 'parent with only one child'. I think at least one of the historical characters didn't exist until shortly before 1900. What needs to be done is to look at what the actual traditions said before Smith/Best and co came along and did a rewrite Kahuroa 05:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

infobox

Sure, I'll make something up later today. Brian | (Talk) 19:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Brian New Zealand/infobox a Start, I have merged some ideas from other infoboxes to get it. I'll need to do some testing on it before we use it or anything. Hopefully I'll get a 'finished' one ready, and take it to the notice board by the end of the week Brian | (Talk) 10:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Macrons

Sorry, I didn't mean to get snappy, I honestly don't care about Maori/Māori, but I get annoyed when bird names get changed. I work with New Zealand birds, and prefer the Maori words for them, but it is frustrating as hell to edit Kereru, Kaka and Kokako and pages that link to them,especially when it is seeming trying to establish a convention rather than follow one. My attempts to talk to someone in the NZ project were ignored. If no one is planning to move Kakapo then no worries. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

AS it happens, I'd been following the convention already, for Māori words when writing about the Pouākai in the bird article (Pouākai really needs its own article incidentally). Still seems like a spectacularly bad idea for English words derived from Māori (like Kokako or Tui), as opposed to when discussing a Māori word itself, where it makes perfect sense. Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Toi

Hey, nice to hear from you. The Toi article was deleted under WP:CSD#G6 ("Housekeeping. Non-controversial maintenance tasks such as temporarily deleting a page in order to merge page histories, performing a non-controversial page move like reversing a redirect, or removing a disambiguation page that only points to a single article"). This looks to me to have been a mistake, since the fact that you are concerned means that it is not 'uncontroversial', and it does not seem to be purely house-keeping. One factor (though not stated) may have been that the article functioned as a disambiguation page, but there were only red-links in it. The best way forward, I think, is for me to recreate the page and for you to work to improve it. Best, Bucketsofg 17:36, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Plant names

Please note that the naming convention for plant articles on Wikipedia calls for the use of scientific names, generally, with common names being redirects to the article titled by the scientific name. I have moved the rata articles according to this policy. Post at WP:Plants if you have any questions. The articles are lovely and well done--thanks. KP Botany 04:02, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for finishing up the move. KP Botany 21:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Auckland Grammar School

Good Afternoon,

Nice to see that you are also an Aucklander.

Could you please help write a short stub http://mi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Grammar_School - just a few sentences based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Grammar_School? Just 2-4 sentences would be sufficient enough. Please. --Per Angusta, 02:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Kahuroa for the perfectly translated article, your Maori skills are Awesome! --Per Angusta, 07:57, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Cheers. I based it on the German version Kahuroa 07:59, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

You based it on the German version? Wow, that's nice! Wolfgang K 22:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)