User talk:John Hill/Archive01

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• How to edit a page
• Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
• Picture tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Naming conventions
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Francs2000 | Talk [[]] 01:38, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

References

I notice you have been sticking references in a lot of articles, which is basically a good thing, but are they all relevant? I generally stick to references that I have used in the article, and maybe some obvious ones to cover up what other people have done (or to cover "common sense" stuff). I noticed you stuck a ref about Grantley Adams in the History of Trinidad and Tobago article, and I was wondering how that related to the topic. Thanks Guettarda 14:06, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Dear Guettarda:

Thank you for your comments. Yes, I am new to the Wikipedia and still learning the "how to" and "whens." Grantley Adams snuck in there by mistake - I will remove the entry immediately - it's good you pointed it out.

Cheers,

John Hill

Edit summary and ~s

First, good additions to Kashmir, but a minor note: there's no need to put "~~~" in the Edit Summaries; Wikipedia adds your name and date automatically as part of the edit history. Looking through Wikipedia:Edit summary legend helped me. -- A D Monroe III 18:56, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

(Odd. This section got added twice. I removed the duplicate. -- A D Monroe III 19:01, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC))

.................................................................. Thanks for all your help and excellent advice! I am really impressed by the rapid attention and professional assistance I am getting! I am greatly indebted to you all. And special thanks to whoever shrank and captioned the photo I uploaded of Nagarjuna's statue - I couldn't figure out how to do this. I will have a look at the "Picture Tutorial," and the other notes for newcomers as soon as I can find some spare time.

Cheers,

John Hill

Further reading

Thanks for the "Further reading" additions on the Silk Road page and other. If you can, it would be great if you could add ISBN numbers so that the books can be readily purchased and consulted by other readers. Best regards PHG 01:42, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

William Beebe

Did you know Beebe or have some other direct connect with him? I have always been fascinated by him Guettarda 02:32, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I was very fortunate when I was a young teenager to know Dr. Beebe quite well. My father, Dr. A. E. ("Ted") Hill was a close personal friend, and later his doctor, in Trinidad. I spent several summer holidays, between about 1954 aqnd 1959 working at the Research Station at Simla as a "laboratory and field assistant". We often stayed with Asa Wright when we were up visiting from Port of Spain.

Dr. Beebe was certainly a most extraordinary person - full of charm and wit, and a very patient teacher. He taught me how to really love and appreciate the wonder of nature - I have very fond memories of afternoons spent wandering alone through the forests, birdwatching and chatting - just the two of us. If you would like to discuss him further - please do not hesitate to write to me directly at: wynhill@bigpond.com (PS you will have to add the character for "at" here between "wynhill" and "bigpond" - I can't find the symbol)

Cheers,

John Hill 02:53, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Central Asian Articles

Excellent contributions recently - it's great to see some images coming up too. Keep up the good work! prat 02:20, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your kind comments - I'm glad someone is appreciating the work. Hope you are enjoying living in China - but it must be very cold now (it sure is hot and muggy here in Cooktown! John Hill 02:55, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Images

WHen uploading images that you own the copyright, please add a tag to the image description page. By adding {{GFDL}} it makes the copyright status clear, and automatically categorizes the image.

Note that owning a picuture is not the same as owning the copyright. — Zeimusu | Talk 05:44, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, will do.

John Hill

Great - One more for you Image:Nagarjuna.png Great image, I'm assuming it's gfdl — Zeimusu | Talk

Images

Of late, I noticed that you have loaded a photograph on Lhasa, and a photograph of Lahul.

I would like to request for you to upload more images of Lahul, Spiti, Kinnaur and Tibet, landscapes, houses and people. You may upload on my User page.

Thanks.

Mr Tan 12:22, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

References on East Asian (contd.)

I noticed you have been adding references in lots of East Asain articles, for instance your work on Weilue 魏略 by Yu Huan 魚豢, but I started to wonder where you would find accountable references and especially search services for East Asian topics on the internet. IMO Google searches do not provide accountable informations. Thanx. Ktsquare (talk) 00:09, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Volker Thewalt images

Hi! I notice that you uploaded images by Volker Thewalt (e.g., Image:Nanga02.jpg). They're very nice.

I noticed that you hand-labeled them "copyright free" but gave them the GFDL label. This is somewhat contradictory. By "copyright free", do you mean that Dr. Thewalt released them into the public domain? Then, {{PD}} would be the right image tag.

I went to Dr. Thewalt's home page and looked at the copyright notice at http://www.thewalt.de/impressum.html --- He said the photos (including Nanga02.jpg) were for private use only and he does not grant a licence for transfer to derived works, without a written agreement. This contradicts the labeling of "copyright free" and/or GFDL. Did you get written permission from Dr. Thewalt? If so, could you record this on a Wikipedia page somewhere? If not, we probably have to remove the images.

Thanks! -- hike395 15:45, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi, John. Maybe it was clear from Dr. Thewalt's e-mail, it just isn't clear to me. He can't have it both ways: protecting his photos with copyright on the web site, but releasing them into the public domain here at Wikipedia. He may wish to keep his copyright to the photos, but releasing them under the {{GFDL}} license. That's the default when someone uploads a picture to Wikipedia. But, because you did it for him, you may wish to contact him asking him specifically if he releases his photos under GFDL, and point out that someone could legitimately copy his photos (for either commercial or non-commercial purposes) and ignore what he says at http://www.thewalt.de/impressum.html. If he wished, he could update his web site to also use GFDL.

Sorry to be a pest --- this is both to protect Wikipedia and to protect you. -- hike395 06:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Here's my suggestion. I would

1. Change the image tags to {{GFDL}}, which preserves Dr. Thewalt's copyright for his own page. Do not say that the image is copyright free.
2. Send Dr. Thewalt e-mail, telling him that you posted his pictures, sending the full URL for each of his images on Wikipedia (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nanga02.jpg), show him that you are posting it under GFDL and ask him if the license is OK with him. He can see the license by looking at the URLs that you send him and clicking on the GFDL link.
3. If the license is OK, you can paste his e-mail into the Talk pages of the images. If the license is not OK, you'll probably have to remove the images. If he wants some minor tweak (say, having the Wikipedia image page link back to his home page), that's pretty easy to do also.

Hope this helps! -- hike395 18:10, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Well done!!! I think everything is fine now. Thanks for doing this! -- hike395 00:24, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Image:Cape York Peninsula Map.jpg

Image deletion warning

The image Image:Cape York Peninsula Map.jpg has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it will be deleted. If you have any information on the source or licensing of this image, please go there to provide the necessary information.

Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:52, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

• Just to confirm and clarify, you created the map? Also, copyright is automatic, and thus we need to make certain we get a good licence. Otherwise, thanks for the response. Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 12:36, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

About Image:Early morning on the Ganges.jpg

Hi John,

I just wanted to let you know that the image you uploaded Image:Early morning on the Ganges.jpg, I have uploaded it on commons at commons:Image:Early morning on the Ganges.jpg

Thanks for the great images. --Spundun 06:43, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi again,

On my talk page you wanted to know if its easy to move the images to commons. The answer is two fold. As for the administrative complications, yes its easy, meaning there are no complications. But it *is* tedious because you will have to upload each image individually. read this short faq entry on commons about it. On top of the directions given there, you should also add a tag like {{NowCommons|<imagename of the image on commons>}}. You can look at what I did on the two image pages. There is no other page to modify, just upload the image and put a not on the image in wikikipedia here that the image is now on commons with the NowCommons template. However to automate the uploads, there *is* a software that wikipedians use to upload a lot of images togather to commons. Its called Commonplace it might be helpful to you. If you try that, then I reccommend that you try it with one or two images and make sure its doing what you expected it to do, by checking the image pages that it just created on commons. You will still have to add the NowCommons template to the images on this wikipedia by hand.

Please make sure you add the images to appropriate cateogries. Without categories, images will be lost on commmons, since there would be no way to loacte them if they are not part of a category and if they are not on any wikipage in commons either. E.g. I put [[Category:Gages River]] for the Ganges photo. which in turn is a subcategory of "Rivers of India" which is a subcategory of "India" . You can also create galleries on a subject if you have taken many pictuers of a subject. Explore the commons website more to get an idea.

Uploading your images on commmons is a good idea since then people on all wikipedias and other wikimedia projects can use your images, provided they can find it, also read this short page on first steps to ploading a file in commons.

Hope this helps. --Spundun 16:48, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Photo gallery?

Hi Rling, I recently recieved a photographic barnstar, and clicked on the barnstar to see who else had recieved the honor. I came across you and was wondering if you had a photo gallery where I could see some examples of your work? --Fir0002 11:50, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

French Guiana

I didn't delete your picture from History of French Guiana, User:Sdrawkcab did. Ask him. Look at the history of the page before making accusations. PBP 12:24, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Suriname

Hello, I deleted the images not because they're 'rubbish' (they're very good) but because they were cluttering the page and were uneeded. There were about 3 large pictures of Maroons in the 50's cluttering the page, making it look untidy and unprofessional. One pciture is more than enough - they weren;t particulary pertinent either. Some pics of the Maroon rebellion would be more suitable. Hope this answers your question, Sdrawkcab 21:39, 22 September 2005 (UTC)sdrawkcab

Cooktown Photo

John,

I removed the photo because, although it was from this website, in which I was given permission to use the image by the webmaster, I later realized that he scanned the images from the book, Explorations: Great Moments of Discovery from the Royal Geographical Society, which says on the cover, "Photographs © Royal Geographical Society Enterprise Ltd" and "All rights reserved. No portion of this book may be reproduced—mechanically, electronically, or by any other means, including photocopying–without written permission of hte publisher." When I added the image, I wasn't aware of this, but now I'm afraid the only way we'll be able to keep the photo is if we contact the publishers for permission. Maybe we can. --Hottenott

Image:Traffic jam on road to Rohtang Pass.jpg

Please add a copyright tag to this image; fx {{GFDL}}. Thue | talk 11:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Ta-Yuan

Hello John, thank you for the message. I am a great fan of your voluminous annotated translations of the Hou Hanshu and the Weilue... great informative work! My main source on the Ta-Yuan (beyond the Shi-ji translations and derived work) is the book by W.W. Tarn, "The Greeks in Bactria and India". He generally supports the timeline described in the article (for example, "Ta-Yuan, which had formed part of the kingdom of Euthydemus...The remainder of the Sai-wang horde apparently seized the Greek province of Ferghana, their name to Chinese writters becoming merged in that of the province Ta-Yuan... Heliocles must have left this outlying province go..." etc... However, I do not have a whole bibliography on the suggestion that "Ta-Yuan" may mean "Great Ionian", and actually Tarn takes the contrary position, apparently referring to earlier debates which I do not directly know of: "Naturally I agree with those who have said that Ta-Yuan does not mean "the great land of the Yavanas"; it is enough that the Ch'ien-han-shu knows of a little "Yuan", Siao-yuan, in the Tarim Basin, which had nothing to do with the Greeks" (this rationale does not sound overly convincing to me by the way). Doing so, he references two authors: Willie p28 ("Notes on the Western regions", and de Groot p64 ("Chinesische Urkunden zur Geschichte Asiens")... that's all I know! Best regards PHG 13:41, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Question

Hi. Did you ever hear from the Royal Geographical Society in regards to the Cooktown photo? --Hottentot 03:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I would like to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year. Guettarda 17:22, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Image:Yaks with loads.JPG has been listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded, Image:Yaks with loads.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

Admrboltz (T | C) 00:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

The image is listed for deletion currently at WP:IfD because it is not used in any articles. If you wish, you can upload it to the Wikimedia Commons commons:Main Page where all Wiki's will have access to it. --Admrboltz (T | C) 04:48, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:King Songsten Gampo's statue in his meditation cave at Yerpa.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:King Songsten Gampo's statue in his meditation cave at Yerpa.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you. Stan 17:00, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Hermaeus

Hi John. Thanks for the comments! Please go ahead with the Chinese transcriptions, I am certainly no expert there. For the identification bewteen Wutoulao with Spalirises, it is from Tarn, although I do agree the similarity doesn't sound obvious. Regards PHG 23:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Himachal Pradesh map.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:Himachal Pradesh map.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{GFDL-self}} to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stan 13:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Wild Rhododendrons in Kashmir.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Wild Rhododendrons in Kashmir.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Image legality questions page. Thank you. Jkelly 04:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Perfect. Tracking down the date that the creator died, updating the image description page with that information, and using the correct tag gives us everything we need. Thanks for sorting it out. Jkelly 16:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

M. Kiani

Hello John

Is it possible for you to help me to contact M. Kiani - I want his permission to use images from his book and I have noticed you have got his permission to show some of his images.

Regards Ivan

Dear Ivan:

I am not sure who you mean by M. Kiani - or which book you are referring to (is it one on Trinidad?) nor have you left me your details so I can contact you directly. If you read this please get back to me with more information.

Cheers,

John

Dear John:

The images on the Qashqai page is photos by M. Kiana: "Kiani, M. 1999. Departing for the Anemone: Art in Gashgai Tribe. Kian nashr Publications, Shiraz. ISBN 964-91200-0-9"

My email address is ivan@jozan.dk

Regards Ivan

Theiler and Downs

Hi John. How are you doing? I noticed you were adding this reference, and I was wondering if you might be interested in writing an article about the Trinidad Regional Virus Lab. I have wanted to for a long time, but I didn't have a reference for it (didn't know where to look for a reference). I think it would be a great addition. Guettarda 13:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Begnin lymphocytic meningitis

I removed the reference you provided in Meningitis mainly as the topic is not mentioned in the article, see Talk:Meningitis#Removal of reference for further explanation and discussion. However you may have highlighted the need for an addition section or extra article:

• Firstly what is Benign Lymphocytic Meningitis - is it, given the more common absence of identified viral cause, a form of aseptic meningitis, if so does it deserve mention within that article ?
• Extra details, if available, would help expand on the reference you gave: specifically year of publication and any online copy or PubMed abstract number (see PubMed search). David Ruben ^Talk 01:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Kurram River, Kurram Valley and Kurram Agency

Hi John, I was cleaning up geographical categories and articles and noticed these articles you contributed to. The Kurram River article often refers to Kurram Valley by it e.g. "It is highly irrigated, well peopled...", the article has no proper flow, could you please clean it up and write separately about Kurram River and Kurram Valley? Thanks. Waqas.usman 13:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you John, I don't know much about the areas and I felt that I should not update the articles. Thank you for your contribution! I'll try to find some pics from the area. BTW does Khyber Pass lie in Kurram Agency or Kurram Valley? Coz we have a pic of Khyber Pass. Waqas.usman 11:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. You're right :( Let's pray for peace in the other regions of the world plagued by war as well. Waqas.usman 22:03, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Request for opinion

John, I've been having problems with user:Eiorgiomugini concerning some articles on Chinese dictionaries. It's escalated to a personal attack and I don't know if I should ask for mediation, arbitration, or what. Could I ask you to review the edit histories and give me your opinion? If you think I've been unreasonable, please let me know and I'll try to ignore him/her. Thanks in advance. --Keahapana 21:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

John, just a quick update. Now he requested mediation and I asked for assistance.[1] Best wishes. --Keahapana 21:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Daxia and Bactria

Hello Mr. Hill. I have written down some thoughts about merging Daxia and Bactria on Talk:Ta-Hsia and I am eagerly looking forward hearing from you about them. Guss2 12:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Schoenus

In the article Anthemusias you wrote:

a schoenus or parasang was about 1 hours' travel by caravan)

but Herodotus writes (Histories II 6):

The parasang is three and three quarters miles, and the schoenus, which is an Egyptian measure, is twice that. [2]

Should this be corrected in the article, or is there in fact some dispute over the proper length of a schoenus? Gdr 20:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Gdr;

I have replied on your Talk Page. Cheers!

Frogs

Hi John,

I read on your user page that you are interested in Cape York wildlife. Do you have any frog photos that aren't represented on Wikipedia? The only tropical frog photos are of the Giant Tree Frog (Litoria infrafrenata), and those also found south. Thanks --liquidGhoul 07:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I would love to! How would you like to do it? Email or upload them? --liquidGhoul 08:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Uploading to commons would be the best bet. Just name the photos descriptively (e.g. tree frog qld) or what you think they may be . Names aren't important, categorisation is, and we can figure how to categorise after uploading. Thanks. --liquidGhoul 10:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Yep, email them to me then. (removed email for spam) --liquidGhoul 22:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

North Queensland frogs are in a bit more trouble than the southern frogs. There seems to be more diseases which are affecting them. Having said that, droughts are a natural thing, and populations will increase again. There is suspicion that the Cane Toads are being affected by disease, and it is good news to hear it is having a noticeable effect. The current advice is to not kill adults. It takes a while for the disease to take affect, and it needs to be passed from adult to child. However, I still reccomend killing tadpoles, eggs and juveniles (only if you know what they are!). I was very surprised to see that you have goannas in your backyard, I thought they were getting rare because of the Cane Toads. --liquidGhoul 23:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Desert Tree Frog is on the main page today. --liquidGhoul 03:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Quotes

While it is a very nice quote, we don't really want to be collecting such things in the encyclopedia articles. There's some talk of trying to get Extinction to Wikipedia:Featured article status, so I'm more motivated to keep things neat and tidy there. Wikiquote is really the place for that sort of thing. Jkelly 02:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know a lot about how Wikiquote is organised, actually. If you go to wikiquote:Extinction, you'll see that the Beebe quote is there. From my brief experience with it, Wikiquote seems to duplicate quotations, so that every quote goes into a topic page (like "Extinction"), and the author page (in this case Beebe). There is no Beebe page on Wikiquote, so right now that quote is only in the Extinction Wikiquote article. If you feel inspired, you could start a page for Beebe there... Jkelly 20:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Adrian

hello Mr Hill, I dont Know whether you are dead or alive. or whether or not your wife is dead or alive, but i write based upon a picture on your website that contains my family in it. it has been brought to my attention that they did not give you permission to take that photograph, and we will like you to remove it asap. thankyou. this picture that i'm refering to can be found on the saint vincent and the grenadines page. the photo is titled 'mother & children'.

Hello! You didn't leave any address so I will have to answer you here. I apologise if I have hurt your feelings or caused any embarrassment to you or your family - this was certainly not my intention at all. I thought that my sister (who took the photo) must have had permission to take it - as everyone in it is clearly posing for the photo - but, I admit that is a different thing to giving permission for the photo to be used in a public forum such as the Wikipedia.

I have already removed the photo from that page and left a request for the editors to remove the photo altogether from the Wikipedia. Please let me know if you are happy with that. Again, I am very sorry indeed for any hurt I may have caused unintentionally. Best wishes, John Hill.

Want same piscture better quality

Hi John, I very much like your picture "Three monks chanting in Lhasa, 1993" on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Three_monks_chanting_in_Lhasa%2C_1993.jpg I'd like to get if there is better quality or bigger resolution this foto. I really want it. my email: Daidas@gmail.com please say something.

Vaidas --213.197.129.54 09:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the note. Life has been pretty messed up the last month or so - both on and off wiki. Hoping it gets better. I appreciate the comment. Guettarda 15:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

re: Congratulations

Thanks mate.

I am really hoping that you will be pleasantly surprised and there is a huge population boom with the upcoming rains :). Good luck! --liquidGhoul 13:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

dolphin

Which parts of the text does the reference you added apply? Please don't just slap in a reference. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I ask you the same question regarding the Extinction article. Joelito (talk) 15:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Please excuse me - I have just learned how to properly insert a footnoted reference and am just going through my recent entries and attempting to fix them. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if you are not happy with the results. John Hill 23:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You are inserting the same reference into multiple articles about fish. References are suppoed to be sources used to write the articles. However, in Flounder, for example, your insertion of the reference is the first edit you have made to the article. Your activity can be interpreted as spamming in an attempt to promote the book you are citing as a reference. Also, I notice that you have inserted references to some on-line sources by John E. Hill without any recent edits to the articles. If you are the same as that author, then you need to be mindful that such self-cites may be interpreted by some editors as vanity postings, and you need to make it clear how the references directly support the contents of the article. -- Donald Albury 03:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Donald: I will also paste this reply on your discussion page - but I think the discussion should stay here too as I seem to be receiving criticism from a number of people about how I have been adding references to articles. Much of this criticism seems, on reflection, to be valid.

First, as a result, I am now reviewing how I reference articles and, as I can find the time, I will go back over articles I have already referenced and try to either change them, remove them, make them more relevant or use them as a base for additions to articles. Perhaps some of the "references" I have made would be better placed under a heading like "Further Reading"? Any suggestions along these lines by yourself or others would be much appreciated.

Now, in my defence, I have honestly tried to just make references in places where they seem to me to be relevant. In regards to the book I have recently been adding as a reference to a number of articles on various fish species - I have just read it and was impressed with the clear way it deals with the threat posed to many if not most stocks of edible fish in the world. I am certainly not trying to "promote" it on any basis other than I think it is a fair and clear account of the rapidly escalating disaster facing us all today.

Many of the Wikipedia articles on various fish species do not even mention the fact that the species under discussion are severely threatened by overfishing, pollution, climate change and other factors. As a person who worked in fisheries research years ago in Alaska, I have a particular interest in these matters and I am appalled by the precipitous decline of fish stocks world wide. I thought this should be emphasised in articles on fish species which are under particular threat. I can see now that I should add something more than just a reference. However, this is what I thought I had done in the article on flounder that you mentioned by adding a brief section on "Threats" together with 3 pertinent references which make specific mention of flounders. Do you think this is an invalid sort of entry?

As regards my two draft books on the "Silk Road Seattle" site. I have used them as the basis for several fairly detailed historical sections on various topics. They are both heavily annotated translations of Chinese texts from the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE on the opening of the so-called "Silk Routes" to the West and India and are the first translations of these texts into English. They contain numerous geographical and historical references to countries, cities, peoples, and routes as well as trade and products, which are unavailable in other sources. As such, they are relevant to the history of many places and on many subjects. Certainly I believe they have great relevance in a wide variety of fields and I have an interest in making people aware of them and the information they contain (I wouldn't have spent 26 years doing the research for them at entirely my own expense if I did not). They are available for free, and I know from the responses I have received many readers have found them of interest. Perhaps, though, I need to make their relevance clearer in some instances and will endeavour to do so as soon as I can.

Finally, after leaving me some time to update at least some of the many entries I have made, I would be grateful, assuming you can spare the time, if you (or other readers) could review any of these updated references and let me know if I am now on the right track?

Thank you for interest and concern. John Hill 10:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Anxi

Hi John, I'm fine either way. Why don't we expand a bit, like "literally Parthia, here thought to be meant for Indo-Parthia", just to keep as close as possible to the original source? Best regards PHG 05:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Your message

It looks like he has cooled down for the moment. The best thing to do in a case like that is to start by warning the anon - add a {{test}} (or test2, test3, etc) to his user page. If he continues, find an admin, or if you can't find anyone report it at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. If it's an AOL anon, or someone using several IPs it's best to go with requesting semiprotection of the page.

Things are hectic, but they are much better than they were. All the best. Guettarda 12:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Year 3102 BC

Hi John Hill, There are two references cited above with 3102 BC. One is Dr Natthan Singh who is a reputed author of 'History of Jats'. Another reference is that of CV Vaidya who is an authority on Indian history. After your note above I tried to find more references. I found in Sister Nivedita book on Myths of The Hindus and Buddhists in which she has given calculations about Hindu cosmology. She has mentioned that commencement of Kali yuga coincides with the day of the death of Krishna. This way this year coincides with death of Krishna. We have this on wikipedia as well. This year is mentioned on its link page of 3102 BC that:

• 3102 BC – Astrological evidence places this date to be the death of Krishna at the age of 125
• 3102 BC — Year 0 of the Kali Yuga begins

Regards, burdak 15:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Jat in Mahavamsa

Dear John Hill, Thanks for the suggestions. There is a need to find some solid historical fact. That is why I put it for discussion. I found that you have done a good work in Buddhist literature. Most of the Jats had adopted Buddhism when it was at peak. There is a need to research the Buddhist literature about origin and history of Jats. Mahavansha, provides a continuous historical record of over two millennia. At one point I find a comment about Chandragupta Maurya as under-

"Mahavamsa describes Chandragupta as coming of Kshatriya clan of Maurya: Mauryanam Khattyanam vamsha jata. (Geiger Trans p 27)."

The meaning of this shloka in sanskrit is that Mauryas are Jat of kshatriya clan. Can you suggest further approach about this and links which provide material on Jats in Buddhist literature or traditions. burdak 04:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

More on Jat in Mahavamsa

Dear Shree Burdak: Thank you very much for your last note which is, indeed, of great interest and importance as it seems to firmly establish that the Mauryas were of Jat lineage.

Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of the Mahavamsa available other than the on-line in the two internet links given in the Wikipedia article on the Mahavamsa. I haven't been able to find the passage you mention in either of these on-line versions of the Geiger translation but, perhaps, they are not complete or the English translation is faulty. I would be very grateful if you could send me the full quote and reference and any other details you can find. I will search for other references to Jats in my books and notes as soon as I can. I will search for more references to jats in my books and references as soon as I can. Many thanks, John Hill 23:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "mapepire balsain"

Hi. I was glad to see the pronunciation of "mapepire balsain" at Bothrops atrox, especially since I would never have guessed it. Would you mind adding which syllables are accented? You could capitalize them or say something like "with the accent on the last syllable in both words" (if that happens to be right). I'm lost at pronouncing the name without that. —JerryFriedman 00:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jerry. I was very pleased to get your note. I wasn't sure whether the Trinidadian names of snakes would be of any interest to readers - so it is good to hear from you. I have updated the articles on both the Fer de lance or Bothrops atrox and on the South American bushmaster Lachesis muta. I have added the stressed syllables in capitals as you suggested and provided an extra local name for the South American bushmaster (mapapire grande). I used to have to handle (and sometimes find and catch) both these species and remove and preserve parasites found on them when I worked for the Trinidad Regional Virus Laboratory in the 1950s - so I am well aware of the common names for them. Mendes, John. 1986. Cote ce Cote la: Trinidad & Tobago Dictionary, Arima, Trinidad, p. 95, gives some pronunciations but no indication of stress. I will also paste this dialog on both articles' Discussion Pages in case anyone wonders why I have bothered with such details or wonders how I am so sure of the local names and pronunciations. I hope you don't mind. Cheers, John Hill 03:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Viper edits

Hi John. Although I appreciate your willingness to add information to the collection of viper articles, please don't forget to add your references and to mind the existing ones. For example, in Lachesis muta you added the statement "It tends to avoid wet lowlands and prefers hilly regions" to the Habitat section. Where did you get this information? Lots of people just seem to make this stuff up, so if it's unreferenced, sooner or later I'll replace it or simply delete it. In a second example, you recently added "Trinidad" to the geographic range statement for L. muta in the Lachesis species table. However, that whole column has a footnote reference for McDiarmid et al. (1999) -- the taxonomic and geographic source that I've used for all of these articles. As a result, after you modified that statement it was no longer accurate or honest, since McDiarmid et al. didn't include Trinidad. To keep things simple, I suggest we keep this kind of additional geographic info in the corresponding articles only.
Bottom line: since so much nonsense is said about venomous snakes, I want to keep all of these Viperidae articles as accurate, reliable and trustworthy as possible. The only way to do that is to include a reference for *every* bit of information that we add. That may sound like a lot of extra work, but it's not that bad once you get used to it. Just take a look at any article in Category:True vipers. Plus, if you do that and your sources are trustworthy (not just some website full of unreferenced information), hardly anyone will bother to "argue" with you anymore. --Jwinius 02:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Viper edits

Hi Jaap! Thanks for your detailed note on your concerns about my edits. It is good to see your concern for accuracy as it is certainly very true there is a lot of nonsense repeated about poisonous snakes. It is my object too to make the articles "as accurate, reliable and trustworthy as possible."

Actually, you have raised one of the main difficulties with the Wikipedia - because it can be edited by practically anyone, and because many writers are either pushing a particular line, or are poorly informed, it becomes more and more necessary to give good, reliable references. However, this approach also has its weaknesses as can be seen here in this discussion. Even scholarly, peer-reviewed works can contain mistakes and/or important omissions. Sometimes personal knowledge is more reliable.

You have based a column on the range of Lachesis muta in the Lachesis species table on a particular work by McDiarmid et al. (1999) who, for whatever reason, have omitted a portion of the well-known and well-established range of this species. I tried to rectify this omission by adding Trinidad to the range but neglected to notice that you had already given a reference for the information in the box.

I do believe Trinidad should be listed in this box - especially as it is a country off the mainland of South America and it is of interest to see that the Bushmaster has spread to Trinidad (though not to nearby Tobago or other West Indian islands). However, I agree I should have given an additional reference after I added Trinidad to the list. Under the circumstances, you were quite justified in removing Trinidad from that list - but I would like to add it again with reference(s).

Now, the presence of this species in Trinidad is referenced in several sources already given in the specific article on Lachesis muta. Should I just refer to that article or should I copy over some or all of the references from that article? I could easily find further references to the Bushmaster occurring in Trinidad if I was near a good library - but, unfortunately, I now live in the bush in northern Queensland, Australia, some 350 km from the nearest small city - so my access to books other than the ones in my personal collection is extremely limited.

About my comments that Bushmasters prefer upland forests (and, in the article on Fer de lances, that they prefer wet lowland forests): This is something that all of us who had to hunt and work with these snakes knew well. I clearly remember Dr. Wilbur Downs who was an internationally renowned naturalist and, the Director of the Trinidad Regional Virus Laboratory as well as my boss and teacher at the time, remarking someone had reported that he had caught a "Mapapire" (often the locals would use this non-specific name when they were not certain which of the two large venomous snakes in Trinidad was involved) near the Caroni Swamp, that it must have been a Fer de lance and not a Bushmaster because it wasn't caught in the hills. On our return to the laboratory in Port of Spain, this was, of course, quickly confirmed, by a quick examination of the captured snake.

I was reminded of this recently when I was looking up birds I used to study and work with in the excellent, The Birds of Trinidad and Tobago by G. A. C. Herklots (1961). He makes a brief reference to this difference in the ranges of the two snakes in his introduction on page 10. I could make reference to this book - and perhaps I should, as I don't know anywhere else that this information has been published. However, I suspect that Herklots got this information originally either from Dr. Downs or Dr. William Beebe (who was the Director of the New York Zoological Society's Research Station at Simla in Trinidad at that time), or from local hunters who certainly knew where to look for each species.

In other words, I believe both Dr. Downs and Dr. Beebe probably knew as much or more about the range of these snakes than Dr. Herklots, having had more direct experience with them. I myself have had considerable experience both hunting for and working with both these species. I am quite happy to quote Dr. Herklots but I regard the knowledge of Drs. Down and Beebe plus my own experience of working with these snakes over some 7 years to be perhaps even more reliable than the brief written note of Dr. Herklots in the introduction to his book on the birds of the region.

What I am wondering is, in this case, should I just refer to Dr. Herklot's reference - or should I do that plus add an additional note in the Discussion page?

Any suggestions from you about how to handle these matters would be most welcome.

I will copy this note into your Talk Page as well.

Cheers,

John Hill 07:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey there, John! Thanks for sharing that with me; it looks like you have lots more field experience than I do. :-) It was a good read as well: I can only imagine what it must be like to work for someone like Dr. Downs in a place like Trinidad (for 7 years?). Wow!

But, back to the present, writing articles like these for Wikipedia is a little different: drawing on one's own experiences is considered "Original Research" and is not done here. I started out like that, writing articles based on what I had seen and heard -- and what I thought I knew -- but then realized that kind of writing would never seem credible to the critical reader. So, after three months or writing like that, it took me over two months of furious writing to undo it all, replacing it only with information from books and some credible sources on the Internet. I forced myself to delete some interesting things that are probably true, which was tough, but sometimes I discovered that I was simply wrong, so in the end I felt a lot better anyway.

However, this approach has its limits as well. First, books can sometimes be wrong too, so if you quote that information and hide behind the reference ("Dr. Soandso said it, I'm not making it up!"), you've still got a problem. In this case, the answer is simple: just don't quote extraordinary and questionable statements. If somebody else seems to have crossed this line, then perhaps it's time to start a discussion. You could also try to obtain the source material yourself, or see if you can find other information to support or refute the claim. Second, anybody can make a mistake when attempting to quote from a source, except that the reference then makes it that much worse; if someone catches you out, they may question the credibility of the entire article. Let's hope this doesn't happen too often. Third, what if somebody misquotes or adds a fictional reference on purpose? This may be more difficult, but I think the solution for this is much the same as for the first problem.

Regarding the Trinidad issue, I don't think the geographic information in McDiarmid's checklist is always meant to be that detailed, especially when describing taxa with wider ranges, such as L. muta. In this case, it's not like omitting Trinidad is the same as forgetting to include a major part of this species' range. That's why I'm in favor of including this kind of additional information the the geographic range section of the particular articles. However, if you really feel strongly about this, you can add it to the tables as a separate statement, i.e. "Also found in Trinidad", along with a reference or two.

As far the habitat info is concerned, as I was saying, quoting from experience just isn't good enough, since nobody else can verify that kind of thing. "And who is this John Hill character anyway and how do we know he isn't pulling our leg?" (On the other hand, if you were to publish your experiences and quote from that, then things would be different. :-)) Second, if you do add the Herklots (1961) reference, it only applies to Trinidad; L. muta may occupy a wider variety of habitats in the rest of its range.

Hope this answers your questions. You can reply here, though, since I've got your talk page on my watchlist for the time being. Cheers, --Jwinius 15:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Jaap (or Jwinius), Thank you for your thoughtful, detailed comments on how to reference articles (something I seem to keep getting into difficulties with!!). In general, I do agree with you - and don't feel strongly enough about the habitat of either of the two species (which, as you mention, may only refer to their preferences in Trinidad) to bother including them any longer. I will, however, add a short note with refs to indicate that Lachesis muta is also found in Trinidad, as I think this may be of interest to some readers.

Thanks so much for your help. And, oh, yes, I was indeed an extremely fortunate young man - I will never forget those wonderful (and exciting!) times in the field and in the laboratory working alongside some of the finest naturalists in the world - I owe a very great debt to the likes of Drs. Beebe, Downs, Aitkens, Anderson, Greenhall and both Drs. Snow - they really were all important pioneers in their fields.

Cheers John Hill 03:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

References

I noticed your query about references above, and thought I would chime in. I would suggest at present you copy the appropriate references, because

• Each article should stand on it's own
• Someone may re-write the other article at any time
• Wikipedia should not be used as a source for itself (by and large)

However there is already one big exception to this ({{GR|1}}) so there might be scope for a similar approach for tightly knit areas. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 20:43 23 November 2006 (GMT).

Kushan Empire

Hi John. Thank you for your message, and let me return the compliment for your work (I am an admirer of your translations of the Han Shu!). I did not follow the Jat discussion in detail, but it seems there are some published sources for their assertions, which, by Wikipedia standards, would allow for a mention. I suppose these should only be described as one view or theory, not as indisputable fact. Best regards. PHG 08:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Tree kangaroo pics

Hi. Sorry I had to take them down but their licensing made them unsuitable for our use and they were deleted. See Wikipedia:Image use policy for details. --Guinnog 21:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, with GFDL licensing there should be no problem including them. --Guinnog 22:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

That's okay

Fixing the redirect, I mean. Happy Christmas! Yuser31415 03:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

new images at jewel beetle

Hi, Thanks for adding a new image to the buprestid article. You might want to consult with others on the talk page before replacing a previous image though. I'm going to move all the images into a gallery, byt the way, as the number is getting a bit out of hand. Debivort 03:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your welcome note and pointing out that I had removed an earlier image. That was totally unintended - I am not sure now how it happened but I had some trouble getting images to sit well on the page and it must have occurred while I was doing this. Oops! Thanks so much for restoring it!!! John Hill 04:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

No problem! Hopefully the gallery will solve our layout problems too. Debivort 04:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)