User talk:Jeff Dahl/Archive 4

Tablet press animation

A mental reminder

Hi Jeff. The tablet press animation was a nice piece of animation. I just came across a cool toilet annimation. The "click to flush" part is really fun. I was wondering whether you have time to create something similar for the toilet article? Thanks. GregManninLB (talk) 00:58, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, I will officially add it to my mental to-do list; it's a worthy project. It might take me some time to decide on the best approach and do the drawings though. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 06:18, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jeff! I just saw your tablet press animation. Absolutely brilliant! What software did you use to make it? --Slashme (talk) 11:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! The base image I did first in inkscape, making raster outputs for each of the moving components and the background. Then, I imported them into Adobe ImageReady. For me, ImageReady was bundled with photoshop and you can open it from the link at the bottom of the Tools menu. If you have it, I could send you the .psd file so you can explore how it's made. The animation is only 6 frames; to do it I started with 2 frames corresponding to the first and last position of the cycle, and used the software's tween function to generate the intermediate frames. I had to manually animate the rollers and the powder fill. ImageReady uses layers just like photoshop; you can change their position and opacity as part of the animation. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 12:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ka statue DYK

On 3 April, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ka statue, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Daniel Case (talk) 03:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Note

Note to self: Image:Tomato je.jpg is a good image for Lycopene. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 05:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Archiving older posts

Dear Jeff, How did you recently archive your talk page? You clearly selected some posts with the mouse but what did you do after that to archive it? Here is my talk page:[1] I want to archive the first 20 posts but don't know what to do after I have highlight them. What did you type or what button did you click on. Any help you can give is appreciated. Fabian Leoboudv (talk) 09:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip Jeff. You can delete my brief post here. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 20:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for pointing it out. I have just uploaded the new version. Please let me know of any other articles you think are worth uploading. Danny (talk) 13:59, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

request

Brother, I have a request for you if you are up for it. This is a 39 year extinct, banned organization, and I don't want flames about copyright from naysayers at the Lab, further you simply do far and away the most beautiful graphic work when presented the individual elements. Please let me know if you have the time or energy. If not I can post it at the Lab. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I'll take a look at it; just post a link. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 03:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Jeff, it is at User:Jeff Dahl/Scout Badge Images#Burma Girl Guides badge. :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Hope that's not too tall one for you. :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

POTD notification

POTD

Hi Jeff,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture Image:Refueling, 1923.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on April 16, 2008. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2008-04-16. howcheng {chat} 22:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

POTD

Hi Jeff,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture Image:Iowa 16 inch Gun-EN.svg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on April 17, 2008. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2008-04-17. howcheng {chat} 23:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Tut's titulary

Do you know what happened to Tutankhamun's titulary? Its...disappeared. And he's one of the most important kings. Regards. Leoboudv (talk) 00:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Was moved to its own table in the article because it was way too big even for a collapsible infobox. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 02:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Jeff, Did anyone say you're the greatest? Because you are. I should have scrolled down further on the Tutankhamunarticle. I did what 99% of visitors would have done and just clicked on his titulary only to see an empty line. The thing is that there was no reference in the Pharaohinfobox saying we should scroll down further to see his titulary...but what can you do? Its not your fault. Fabian. Leoboudv (talk) 06:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reference to Tut's titulary. It helps a lot. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

History images

Thanks for doing the images @ history article ... I like it. J. D. Redding 21:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Glad you like it. I often find that many high-level articles lack images that let the reader know they're at the right place and set the tone for the article. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 03:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:Jet engine.svg nominated for delisting

Hi, I've nominated Image:Jet engine.svg for delisting from Featured Picture status. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/Image:Jet engine.svg. howcheng {chat} 16:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve#Rub el Hizb

We could use your crazy Arabic skill here... Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 05:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, not sure how I can help on that. Anyway, it looks like it is already done. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:05, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Is the Arabic clean/correct/look proportional inside the image to you? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, the font could be a little more precisely done, compare with Image:Flag of Saudi Arabia.svg which has the same text but a slightly different calligraphy style. Not sure if this is stylistically important. My first thought would be to use the calligraphy from the Saudi flag, which is easy enough to do, but might not be "officially" accurate. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

POTD notification

POTD

Hi Jeff,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture Image:Gibraltar map-en-edit2.svg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on September 10, 2008. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2008-09-10. September 10 is Gibraltar National Day. howcheng {chat} 22:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Increase image size

Dear Jeff, Can you possibly increase the image size of the pectoral in Pinedjem I since you have done this recently with all the Pharaohinfoboxes? Or is it the size set? I tried changing it with my anon IP (I forgot to log in) but haven't been able to increase its tiny size. The pectoral ia a great image. Leoboudv (talk) 05:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a default size set, it is something like 150 px or so, so when no image size is given, the template uses this standard size. One can also put in a custom size using the ImageSize parameter. It is important to note that the syntax will not allow you to put in the letters "px" but only the number you want (eg "250" but not "250px") or else the parameter will get messed up. I made the change on Pinedjem I here. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 18:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Jeff. When you made the adjustments to the Pharohinfobox, image size wasn't discussed. I used the traditional px for this feature. Guess I was wrong here. Thank You. Leoboudv (talk) 19:44, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Egyptarchive image

Dear Jeff, I noticed you downloaded this image of king Neferefre from Egypt-archive which is copyright free [2]. Could you consider downloading this particular image of Neferirkare Kakai's ruined pyramid: [3] from the same site? There is almost nothing good for Neferirkare Kakai of the Vth dynasty and yet he was a notable ruler with a kind personality. see his article Neferirkare Kakai. The Wikipedia image of his pyramid is badly spoiled by the presence of an individual in it. Of course, the current image on Wikipedia's article for him would be acceptable if it could focus more on the pyramid and eliminate the individual in it...but I don't know if you can manipulate someone else's photo. But then there would be no need to resort to Egyptarchive's image of his pyramid.

I myself have no idea how to download images or properly tag them on Wikicommons. Leoboudv (talk) 06:04, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I've taken images from Wikicommons and stuck them on Wikipedia articles before. I will do this for the Neferirkare Kakai image you downloaded. Egypt Archive is a great source of free images but its selection of images are generally limited. However, if you have the time, this image of a piece of jewellry from Tutankhamun's tomb would be a great addition for Wikicommons: [4] Wikipedia's article on the boy king simply lacks any notable minor jewellry from his tomb: Tutankhamun Its just has the gold mask and a senet table which is OK but not as splendid as this masterpiece of craftsmanship. The creator of Egyptarchive was lucky. He took images in the Cairo Museum before the Museum banned the use of cameras there in 2005 or 2006. (The photograph taking was creating a jam in tourist traffic flow in the Museum.) PS: Thank you for your help on the Neferirkare Kakai image. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 20:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Dear Jeff, If I copy a picture from egyptarchive.co.uk, which tag do I select. I've never downloaded an image before and am uncertain what to use for copyright free images. They are very rare as you know.

Thank You, Leoboudv (talk) 10:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

POTD notification

POTD

Hi Jeff,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture Image:Minard.png is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on June 24, 2008. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2008-06-24. howcheng {chat} 23:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Zrda

• FYI, I just noticed the Admins have banned this user, Zrda, for using 23 sockpuppets: [5] & [6] I think you know this person. Leoboudv (talk) 06:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Based on her 3 brutal and terrible edits to Dab, I would say she's gone. Leoboudv (talk) 19:36, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow Jeff! She snookered you too? I didn't know you gave her a medal: [7] I created the articles on the new female New Kingdom pharaoh Neferneferuaten, Tutkheperre Shoshenq and practically rewrote & footnoted Amenhotep III which I just submitted to Veropedia 3 days ago. I only once received a thank you 'to my contributions to Egyptology' once and that was years ago. Regards, Fabian Leoboudv (talk) 04:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Zerida helped a lot on ancient Egypt when it was a featured article nominee (see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ancient Egypt). She and I did not agree on many points, but she did stick with it all the way through to a successful promotion, making helpful suggestions and most importantly re-writing the language section and improving the other sections as well. The fact that she was committed and made substantive changes to the article itself in the face of our disagreements prompted me to recognize her substantial effort on an important article. Sometimes when people get upset, they lash out, which it appears Zerida has done. It's unfortunate that it happened, but I hope whatever problems she was having with Dbachmann are worked out. I would hate to see Zerida leave since she is quite an expert in the ancient Egyptian language.

Writing for WP is often a thankless job, but your work--and everyone's work--is definitely appreciated. For me, my greatest satisfaction comes from talking to people face-to-face and hearing them talk about wikipedia, without knowing I work on the project. When people say how useful WP is, I know that I've done my small part in making the project better. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 14:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

From what I can surmise, she was obnoxious and singleminded on Arab related topics as one commentator said, rather than on Ancient Egypt per se. She must be that to have posted those kinds of vicious attacks on Dab who is just a poor Admin doing his job maintaining balance and accuracy in articles. I recently saw Dab admonish a User not to include Chinese propaganda that the Dalai Lama eats babies and these kinds of stuff. I pity the Admin here who does his job and gets verbally abused or has his user site vandalised in return sadly. PS: I didn't know of a site to promote articles, only delete them. Regards, Fabian from Canada (talk) 00:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

That's OK Jeff. I thought you forgot to bold your AfD opinion, that's all. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 01:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Is there any possibility you could place this copyright free image onto Wikicommons: [8] I could add it for the article on Amenemhet III. Its a nice piece of jewellry Just curious. Leoboudv (talk) 05:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. Also, if you haven't found it already, I have a master list of Bodsworth's images that I uploaded on my commons sandbox page: User:Jeff Dahl/Sandbox. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 06:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Commons uploading

• Thank You Jeff. May I ask 2 simple questions? I have a registered account at Wikicommons and I tried to upload a copyright free picture 1 week ago. But the tag asked if it was a GNU or GDFL license? What do I do--I don't know the difference? FYI, I have notified Bodsworth of the posting of his Egyptarchive pictures (as he requested) and he replied that he was happy the pictures are useful to others. As an Aside, do you live in North America? I'm in Surrey, BC Canada, just north of Washington State and a 2 hour drive from Seattle. We're in the PST (California) time zone. Regards, Fabian Leoboudv (talk) 00:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
• Um! I pasted the Wikicommons picture for Amenemhet III's article: [9] but I notice the egyptarchive link for the picture is wrong. It shpuld be this link here not this I hope this isn't a problem. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 00:44, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for fixing the link; I just copied and pasted off the previous template and forgot to update. As for your licensing question, GFDL stands for "GNU free documentation license". The gnu is an animal; for some reason they chose to associated their free license documentation with the gnu. Where am I? I grew in in Minnesota, but I'm going to graduate school in Chicago. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 01:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

• Then copyright free would be under GDFL, I suppose. BTW, when do one use GNUs? Is it for pictures where we have to provide a free use rationale? Just curious. PS: I hope life is great in 'The Windy City.' I know the University there is first rate. Leoboudv (talk) 02:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

• The Copyrighted free use tag is an acceptable alternative to GFDL. GFDL is not the only license choice, we can also use certain Creative Commons licenses, or Public domain, and a number of others. The license only has to satisfy certain conditions, such as freedom to reproduce, modify, etc. See free content. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Anubis

Have you considered placing this life-size image of Anubis on Wikicommons: [10] As an Aside, I'm sorry but I don't know how to access your sandbox. Leoboudv (talk) 05:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

• See here. You can see my sandbox by going on commons to User:Jeff Dahl/Sandbox. It won't work to type that in the wikipedia searchbox, you have to go into commons in order to type that in. Also, if you go to any of the image pages (on commons) and click on "Links:The following pages link to this file" you can find a link back to the sandbox page. Hope that helps, Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 00:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
• Oh Its on Wikicommons? No wonder I couldn't find it. Thank You, Fabian Leoboudv (talk) 20:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Image:Kuwaitguidelogo.jpg *م ك | الفتيات المرشدات

Sorry to pester you, could you correct the text on Image:Kuwait Girl Guides.jpg? Thanks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 15:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, this is kind of fuzzy which makes them tougher. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 22:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

This is the text م ك | الفتيات المرشدات . It should help. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 08:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Rapunzel-Disney.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Rapunzel-Disney.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipe-tan nominated for Featured Picture

I thought I would let you know that I have nominated Wikipe-tan for Featured picture at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates#Wikipe-tan. -- Ned Scott 10:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Uploading images onto Wikicommons

Dear Jeff, When I try to upload an image from egyptarchive.co.uk, I am asked in the license to choose from an array of options. I can't type in {{copyright free}} for an egyptarchive.co.uk image. Am I doing something wrong, do I select 'GNU Free Documentation License' because the images from the tombs of Tanis (a few new photos) are Mr. Bodsworth's work, not mine or is there another option. I wish I could type in the cf free tag but the down arrow button for licensing doesn't give me this option. This makes me wonder how so many people can select copyright free for the tag?

Secondly, how did you select a license for a Fair User rationale for the Rapunzel image you uploaded. It can't be GDFL since you didn't take it--was it GNU? Can you tell me what the license codes are. Confused. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 19:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

What you should be able to do, I think, is leave the license field as "none selected" (the first option), but then type in the template for the copyrighted-free use tag in the "additional info" box above. Alternatively, once the image is uploaded, you can change the license by manually editing the page as well. For large numbers of images like the Bodsworth set, you could try using an upload program such as the one called "commonist". I have never used it by it might be a lot easier and faster than the one-by-one manual uploading. As for rapunzel, that one was uploaded locally to wikipedia rather than commons (commons doesn't accept fair-use), and there are differences between the commons upload page and the Wikipedia upload page that make it possible to upload fair-use images. Hope that helps. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 20:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

• Someone mentioned Commonist too to me...but you need Java here and I don't have Java on my computer. Anyway, I have maybe 10 new egyptarchive images to download from the tombs of Tanis. As for the Rapunzel image, if Wikicommons doesn't take RF images, how did you upload it to Wikipedia? There is nothing on Wikipedia which says 'Upload file' anywhere? I clicked on the New Pages link and there is nothing there either for downloading a fair use image onto Wikipedia. Secondly, may I ask if this is the one method which alllows people to scan images on copyrighted books and then place them on Wikipedia like this one: [11] or would it be rejected today? The uploader even says its from a copyrighted book. I'm assuming the image is on Wikipedia, not Wikicommons. I hope you can answer my 2 part question please. Thank You. Regards, Fabian from Metro Vancouver, Canada Leoboudv (talk) 20:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

On Wikipedia, on the left side of the screen there's a toolbox; you will see the upload file button in that toolbox. Scanning images from copyrighted books, like any fair-use image, has to have a valid fair-use rationale. It looks to me like the copyrighted image you pointed out would not really satisfy the fair use criteria because new photos could be created that would be free replacements. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 20:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Jeff--that's the missing link I was trying to find. Do you think that scanned images from books would be deleted today? That was the impression I got. BTW, when you were placing pharaoh infoboxes a few months back, you skipped Shoshenq V, the last king of Dynasty 22 because there was no image for him or his hieroglyphs. I just added his prenomen and nomen Akheperre Shoshenq and an image--a rather cheap but important image of his Year 11 Apis stela. Perhaps you might consider placing it in a Pharaoh infobox now since he reigned for 38 years in Lower Egypt. Regards, Fabian Leoboudv (talk) 21:05, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I added the infobox. Sometimes, scanned images from books are OK if they have an legitimate fair-use claim or if they are truly public domain--published before 1922 for example. That particular image probably should be deleted because the fair-use claim is not legitimate. This particular image would probably not be deleted immediately, but instead would probably need to be tagged and wait for at least a week to give the uploader a chance to justify a claim of fair use. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 21:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use vs Free use

Thanks for fixing the Shoshenq V article. I should clarify: the image of the Apis stela of Shoshenq V was not cheap; it was the work itself that was cheap. This king was really the last king of the 22nd dynasty which was falling apart under his reign. (Osorkon IV doesn't count since he only controlled Bubastis and Tanis) Even in his Year 36, 'separatist' local kings or princes like Tefnakht I of Sais--who anonymously dated his activities in a stela from this year (and doesn't bother to mention Shoshenq V!)--and Iuput II of Leontopolis were already reasserting themselves. So, basically Shoshenq V was an emperor with very little clothes. He still controls Memphis in his 37th year since an Apis burial is documented by various stela but most of the work done here was also of poor quality. That is why some scholars call the end of 22nd Dynasty as "the Libyan chaos' when the Dynasty collapsed with his death and a whole bunch of local kings suddenly appear in Lower Egypt. This is the situation that Piye documents in the Nile from his Year 21 victory stela.

As for the issue of the image itself, the image of Yuya and Thuya is not legit...because there is NO rationale for its use. Am I understanding you correctly? I have a friend who downloaded images of CD covers of her favourite pop groups using Fair use only to have many of them deleted. So, I don't know if a claim of fair use for a specific topic is legitimate. This article was done several yrs ago and there are several images of Shoshenq II's mask and tomb treasures. If I try to use one of them and say it is only for Shoshenq II, is a low resolution image and and, of course, I give the cited source, would it pass muster as a Fair use image on Wikipedia (not Wikicommons of course)? I ask this because there is currently no image of his treasures anywhere on this pharaoh's Wikipedia page. Or am I dancing close to the edge? Any ideas. Regards, Fabian Leoboudv (talk) 22:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

So there's a difference between free use and fair use. Free use is, for example, like the bodsworth images. Bodsworth is the copyright holder and he says anyone can use them freely with no charge or restrictions. Fair use, on the other hand, means that we are taking an image that is not free but using it anyway. We can only do this when specific criteria are met: specifically the ten criteria that make up the fair use rationale. Each of the ten criteria has to be met to use a non-free image on wikipedia. For the Sheshonq treasures on the website, since any of those artifacts could be photographed brand new, the non-free images on the website you provided could be replaced by a free one. For those images, and for pretty much any artifacts, new photos can be taken so generally a fair use is not possible. Fair use would be necessary if no new free photograph could be created. When it comes to CD covers, no one can take a free photo of it because the designs are copyrighted, so we can make a claim of fair use. Does this make sense? Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 22:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

• Yes. I'm slowly getting the hang of it. Sorry I was away as I had Sunday mass at 4PM PST to attend . Just one comment on the first rule: No free equivalent. The Cairo Museum authorities have prohibited all picture taking in the Museum since 2005 so its not possible to take an image of them today. see this Would that allow a fair use claim since no one cannot take any images of Sheshonq II's treasures in the Cairo Museum? Bodworth's own images here were done before the ban was put in place but he missed Sheshonq II's mask. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 01:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I would say in that case it might be OK to claim fair use. You just have to make sure to make thorough documentation, including a fair use license tag, a fair use rationale template, such as {{Non-free use rationale}}, and just make sure to link back to the article you want to use it in and make a very complete description as to why the non-free photo can't be replaced. Having an iron-clad rationale will help prevent the image from getting deleted. Hope it works. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 02:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for telling me that I could type in the copyright tags in the summary box above the Licensing table. That was the missing link which prevented me from uploading pictures. I have added a few images Jon provided for Takelot I, Osorkon II, Shoshenq III and one on Tanis: [12] Now everything makes more sense. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 09:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Lycopene

Do you see a big difference occur when you made this edit? It looks nearly identical to me, except I think the small text is a bit more readable than superscript text, while only taking up marginally more space. Just curious mostly, because your edit summary "why take up 2/3ds of the page with a huge block of chemical formula" seems inconsistent with what I observe. ChemNerd (talk) 18:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I did see a big difference on my system; without the linebreaks the infobox takes up 2/3rds of the page, at least on my system (19 inch with firefox, winXP). Checking it on a different system (22 inch with windows explorer), the <small> version looked OK. I guess it comes as no surprise that different browsers/monitors display pages differently, but at least for some viewers the <small> version without linebreaks won't work. I've tried several different ways to make the formula fit, and at least for me the best was with the superscript font. Any other ideas? Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 21:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I kind of figured it was something like that. If the article looks fine for you this way with your browser/monitor combination (and it works fine for mine), then I guess nothing else needs to be done. Thanks for the explanation. ChemNerd (talk) 23:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Locating fair use images on Wikipedia

Dear Jeff, Is it possible to locate fair use images on Wikipedia. Sometimes they are placed on a certain article and later replaced by images on Commons. Its simple to find pictures on Commons: you just type in say 'Mussolini' or 'Ramesses II' and you get a bunch of images. But how about finding fair use images on these subjects which have been downloaded to Wikipedia since they are copyrighted...like your Rapunzel image? It seems to me only you would know how to locate this image since you have its precise title name. But I wouldn't as a third party be able to type Rapunzel on Wikipedia and find this image. Any ideas? Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 09:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

That's one I don't know the answer to; I would refer that to the Wikipedia:Help desk. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 02:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Dear Jeff, If a photo from a web site is replacable (ie. perhaps its a stela or statue from a Museum in London or Paris) that anyone can snap a photo of, wouldn't it be disqualified under the Fair use rationale? FYI, I have added 3 images for the funerary masks of Shoshenq II and Psusennes I under but that was clear because they objects were from the Cairo Museum which prohibits cameras. Also check the one I placed under Pierre Montet. I have also heard that photo taking by tourists in the Valley of the Kings has now been banned. I presume, but don't know for sure, that picture taking by tourists have also been banned in other Museums throughout Egypt sadly. Leoboudv (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Your FURs are well written, so good job on that, but I can't guarantee that someone won't delete them. In fact, I would say that it is likely that they will get deleted at some point as being replaceable, which they probably are. The solution for that would be to contact the creator and convince him to license them under a free license, such as one of the creative commons licenses, such as CC-BY-SA (creative commons-attribution-share-alike). This is exactly what I did for this image. You just have to email the guy, tell him how useful the image is and how good it is, how much it would benefit the free encyclopedia etc. Take a look at Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. Your email should have some boilerplate text that the guy can fill in, and just make sure that it says all the required things. Then, forward the email to the OTRS system with a link to the image file and they will put a tag on it with a link to the OTRS ticket which contains an archived copy of the email permission. This is an excellent way to get images for WP and photographers are often glad to help out and see their stuff being used prominently. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 23:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

• this page describing the process is also useful. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 23:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
• The process seems to be time consuming. Its strange that Wikipedia may not allow them since the author does say that the images are CF free but not to be used for commercial purposes. (and that is how they are tagged) As for any challenge, I would say that they are not replacable since all photo taking in the Cairo Museum has been banned for at least 3 years. As an Aside, can you answer my question about 'replacable' images? If an object is located in a European or North American museum, then there is no fair use rationale for using them from this web site because someone else could take a photo of them too--is my understanding here correct? Thank You, Leoboudv (talk) 23:40, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is my experience in general that photos of museum artifacts (as opposed to modern, copyrighted works of art) are generally considered replaceable no matter where they were taken, North America, Europe, or elsewhere. Anyway it is surprisingly easy to convince people to let us use their images, and you can often get a lot of good stuff just by asking the right people/questions. Then, you won't have to worry about fair use rationales. By the way, you have to write a new FUR for every article an image appears in, so for at least one of your images, it is used in two articles, and has to have a FUR for each article it's used in. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 00:00, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• Sorry to disturb you Jeff. So in the image of Psusennes II's second funerary mask, I just changed the FUR from Psusennes I to from Pierre Montet's article only. I can only use 1 FUR image for 1 article, is that about right? Or more. It sounds a bit complicated. Leoboudv (talk) 00:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

You can use fair use images in as many articles as you want, provided each use satisfies its own FUR criteria. For example, in an article about a video game, you could include a screenshot in that article. Let's say the video game was based on a movie. You could potentially use that same screenshot in the article about the movie, provided that it's use is consistent with fair use. For example you could be making a comparison about how that movie inspired further video games, and you could include the screenshot there to show the visual style. But you couldn't use the image in an article about an unrelated subject. So you can use them in more than one article as long as you write a second FUR on the image description page. Now for the Psussenes image, including it in a list is probably not consistent with fair use so you should probably take it out of the list. One thing that might have you confused is the statement that fair use images have to be used in at least one article. This is a minimum, in other words, the image has to be used in at least one article in order to not get deleted. If a fair use image is not used, it is called an Orphaned Image. Also, an article can have more than one fair use image as long as it doesn't get excessive. Does this make sense? Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 01:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Jeff I apologise for disturbing you in Chicago. I have removed the FU images from the 'List of Pharaohs' as you suggested. Just one comment: when you state that a FU image "has to have a FUR for each article it's used in," what do you mean? Are you stating that I should say in the article section of the image summary box for the FU image: 'Psusennes I' and 'Pierre Montet'. In this case Montet would be the person who found Psusennes' tomb so they are interwoven. Is it that simple? Or am I supposed to upload a duplicate image of the same picture, only this time write Pierre Montet (since there is a pre-existing one on Ps. I) Thank You, Leoboudv (talk) 01:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at the image description for Image:National Geographic - King Tut face.jpg; does that answer your question about multiple licenses? Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 02:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• Yes it does indeed. Thanks Jeff. BTW, here is my small collection of (17)images on Commons:[13] There is a visiting ROM exhibition in Surrey, BC where I live. Regards, 24.87.136.31 (talk) 03:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Photos

I managed to get a few new images from Bodswrth at Egyptarchive for Shoshenq III, Takelot I and Osorkon II's tombs as well as Hornakht's sarcophagus lid but I did some things for him in return. But as for the Ancient Egypt website at [14], I don't know what I would do if my images at Shoshenq II, Psusennes I and Pierre Montet are deleted. On this other person's web site, (S. Hayter) I had to save all the images on a computer folder since there was no specific url # for the images--they are all identical on the web until you save them. I have no idea what OTRS is. All I know is that I clicked on 'Egyptian Museum, Cairo' and then the 'Gold and Silver' link to access the images (and save them). All I can do is pray they aren't deleted. As I said, I could click on 'Information' and then on 'Simon Hayter' to E-mail him, but I haven't a clue how to do a pd-attribution anyway. I'd be wasting Hayter's and my time. I suppose then there will be no image of Shoshenq II and a bad one for Psusennes I's funerary mask. The only Common's picture of the latter's mask is just awful: totally out of focus and with lots of camera afterflash as if they photographer was shaking when he took it: [15]

PS: its strange. An Admin told me that non-commercial use photos are not permitted on Wikipedia or Commons based on a J. Wales edict here [16] and yet when I checked the fair use site, it told me I could upload copyrighted images with a proper rationale and correct license tag. I'm confused. But as I said, if the images are deleted, I guess that will be the end of it since I have a job to work in real life and lack enough time to devote on the intracies of OTRS and archiving letters of permission sadly. It would have been simpler if I could just contact Hayter, get his OK and type {{Cc-by-sa-3.0|Simon Hayter at http://www.ancient-egypt.co.uk/}} but I can't (I assume the image would be challenged time and time again without an archived OTRS) and I'm definitely no lawyer. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 08:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know the license issues are tough. I usually try to take my own photos, and I've already uploaded quite a few photos and diagrams. BTW, on the link you provided it says tourists can request permission to photograph artifacts as long as it's for educational/research purposes rather than typical tourist happy-snaps. So it would seem if you request permission ahead of time, you could take photos in the Egyptian museums. If I end up going back to Egypt again, I'll make sure to get written permission to photograph artifacts. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 23:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• According to Hayter's web site [17] under 'New & Changed' and then 'Valley of the Kings,' all the tombs here now "have a firm no-photo policy." That sucks. I guess the series of pictures of the royal VOK tombs he just posted will be his last. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 00:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

POTD notification

POTD

Hi Jeff,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture Image:DesertStormMap v2.svg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on July 27, 2008. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2008-07-27. howcheng {chat} 00:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, nice work! Louis Waweru  Talk  11:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Peer review/Vithoba/archive1

Hi. You had reviewed the Matrikas article, which helped the article improve and get to GA status. I request you to PR Vithoba, an article about a Hindu deity, just like the Matrikas. Maybe with similar issues like jargon. I have tried to put in as many English explanations as possible for Indic terms. Thanks. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 12:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

License

HI Jeff

First of all congratulations to your fine work here. It is also with respect to this image that I am contacting you.

I am working in academia and have a project on a specific part of the jet-engine. Currently, I compose a manuscript for publication in a scientific journal. The idea is to put a beautiful schematic of an engine up front. I am heavily using Illustrator myself to visualize the contents of my research, but I would never reach the quality of Set_engine.svg, not to mention the time it would cost me. I am therefore requesting your allowance to publish it.

Of course, we would acknowledge your allowance alongside the picture, but I am afraid the issue might be more complicated than that. Honestly, I never understood what all these GNU licenses mean here on wikipedia and for the few images I uploaded I just found out a way to it without receiving warning templates. As far as I understand, I would have to specify the type of license that makes the image free, which sounds actually more complicated than just acknowledging the author. But perhaps I just do not understand it clearly.

Please enlighten me. No question, your rulings will be respected and appreciated.

Another issue appears to me that the FAA might have a license for it. Their image is in the public domain, which sounds to me pretty free, but that might again be a mistake.Sorry for my ignorance, but these legal things are difficult to digest for me.

Cheers Tomeasy _{T C} 16:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks so much. Of course you can use the image. To answer your licensing question, the original drawing is public domain as a work of the federal government, but my redrawing does attract its own copyright. Since my goal is to make my work freely available, I license all my drawings under dual GFDL and CC-BY-SA. In addition to these license choices, you also have my specific permission to use it in your article. If you want, I can email the permission directly to you. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 01:41, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I would appreciate an email. It will be more license-stuff input for me, giving me more opportunities to understand these things. Moreover, my supervisors and the journal will request me to provide evidence that I may use the work.

The work you initially found from the federal government, was that already a vector, or did you actually produce all vectors by hand, just using a bitmapped painting as a role model?

I have also put a few hours into it. I assume this is OK as I understand the license. I took out some of the details, since it will appear printed on paper with a physical width of ca. 10cm. Namely, I reduced the number of compressor stages and some details in the combustor. I will send it in my answering email, if you want to see it.

In a nutshell: What's the difference between public domain and GFDL?

Is it a requirement to make a prescribed statement, i.e., the one on the image description page, when reproducing a GDFL document. Tomeasy _{T C} 12:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Email sent. The original image was a bitmap, which I used to draw a new vector image, from scratch and by hand. Don't worry too much about the difference between GFDL and PD, because I emailed you specific permission to use the work. Just cite the source and you are OK to use/modify the work.

To answer your question, though, Public domain means that the work has no restrictions and can be used however you want. You don't even need to give credit, except to avoid plagarism. GFDL on the other hand, means that the content is freely available and modifiable, but the GFDL imposes a few restrictions over PD. These are that contributing authors must be given credit, and that future users can't impose more restrictions, such as preventing others from freely distributing the work. Another somewhat anachronistic restriction is that for printed work under GFDL, the entire multi-page license would have to be printed alongside the work. This was originally done because the license was intended to be used with free software, and the idea was to allow people to have access to free software and to modify it however they wanted, but to require that credit be given to contributing authors. For WP users, GFDL can be a pretty hefty restriction, because using even one GFDL image in an off-wiki print article would mean that the article would have to have the entire GFDL printed as well. That's why most contributors, including me, also dual license their work under a creative commons license. This means that you can re-use our work but don't have to print the entire license agreement. Hope this helps answer your question and I'm happy to explain anything more. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

OTRS

Dear Jeff, I was looking at your OTRS image here: [18] While I have a Wikimedia account which I just accessed, I don't have an OTRS account. (which is supposedly placed under Wikimedia) and can't read your message! How did you register for it? I wonder...if it was possible if you could give me a brief but succint boiler plate question asking the author's permission. I haven't asked Hayter about those FU images because I don't know how to compose the question. I also don't know the specific license you used for your lloyd image. BTW, I finally joined the AE Wiki Project. Regards, Leoboudv (talk) 21:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

From what I understand about the system, OTRS accounts are held by a number of people (not me!) who are responsible for, among other things, answering wikipedia's and commons' emails. So whenever you send an email about WP or COM, an OTRS account holder will read the email and take the appropriate action. For example, if a professional photographer finds that someone is taking credit for his image and uploading it to commons, the photographer could email the system and an OTRS user could go and delete the image. Or, they could answer copyright questions or help with BLP issues that arise from email complaints. OTRS users are volunteers and aren't paid by the WM foundation, but are given special access in order to help with routine business. As for your question about seeking permission from the author, the first thing would be to read some of the links in the posts above that discuss asking for permission. Also, I would be happy to forward you a copy of the request I sent to lloyd for the Hatshepsut image. Just send me an email (using the link in the toolbox to the left of this page) and I can respond with the boilerplate permission request I used. Hope that helps and congrats on joining the project! Let me know if you are successful at getting permission or if you need additional help. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 19:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)