Irvingredman

March 2022

Hello, I'm Binksternet. Your recent edit(s) to the page Charles Fox (composer) appear to have added incorrect information, so they have been reverted for now. If you believe the information was correct, please cite a reliable source or discuss your change on the article's talk page. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 04:13, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Hey- I'm not sure how any of this works, but email me your phone number and I'd love to chat. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Irvingredman (talk • contribs)

I'm not interested in a phone call, hearing your version of Fox's version. If Fox apologizes and gives Lieberman a few million dollars I will change my mind. Binksternet (talk) 20:16, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't know how this site works, so I'm probably repeating myself in different places, but...

It would seem that a volunteer wikipedia fact checker would be interested in knowing the facts. I was willing to enlighten you, but you seem awfully emotionally invested in a matter and a business you know nothing about. But to be clear, if anyone has a conflict of interest, it's you. I recognize, at the end of the day, about 26 people in the entire (make believe) world care about this and I was trying to clear it up for them, for me and to make your site more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Irvingredman (talk • contribs)

"The facts" contradict each other. Wikipedia is going to present all of them that have been published, not just your favorite half. Facts such as Fox and Gimbel listed as sole songwriters conflict with facts such as The Washington Post piece talking about how the inspiration of the song was Lieberman's alone, confirmed by Fox and Gimbel themselves talking to the media in the 1970s. You are seeking to hide that part of the narrative. You are not here to improve Wikipedia; rather, you are here to fluff Fox. Binksternet (talk) 21:56, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Blink: You sound like a victim here. You should not be in Wikipedia. You should write a memoir about your hurt feelings that no one will care about. Trust me, Fox does not need any fluffing. An outstanding humanitarian (60 yrs married, 60 yrs with BMI, 50 yrs on exec board of Motion Picture Academy, 10x the man of the year at various charities and institutions, wrote primarily with 4 lyricists and stayed friends with all 4 for 50+ years each (Crewe, David, Gimbel, Williams), raised millions for inner city kids through his charity concerts and was praised and thanked by Lieberman's own parents-- a gem of a human being who also created some of the world's most beautiful and lasting music. Lieberman broke up one marriage, faltered into 3 marriages of her own, added zero notable music and sometime after 2004 (32 yrs and 4 Fox/Gimbel albums later) announced she wrote a poem that "Killing Me Softly" was based on. BMI, Naras, Atlantic records, The Library of Congress Copyright Office, the Grammy museum, the songwriters hall of fame freely publish and can ascertain actual facts as to who wrote the song, and it is legally and contractually and factually uncontested. A publicity interview in the daily news from 1973 is not facts. And just because a friend of Lieberman's quotes it in a self published book that no one reads, that doesn't make it a fact either.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Irvingredman (talk • contribs)

You are welcome to your outdated viewpoints about who had the upper hand in the sexual relationship between Lieberman, a 19-year-old woman newcomer to the industry, and Gimbel, an accomplished 45-year-old man who positioned himself as the gatekeeper to her successful career. But don't try to change the history of Lieberman's contribution to the song. I am well aware that Fox did plenty of good things, wrote lots of highly praised music, but his 1970s business dealings with Lieberman don't look so honest in retrospect. This one part of his life will not be whitewashed, despite Fox's efforts in that direction. Binksternet (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, Irvingredman. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Charles Fox (composer), you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{request edit}} template);
• disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam#External link spamming);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 04:15, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Charles Fox (composer) has been reverted.
Your edit here to Charles Fox (composer) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline. The external link(s) you added or changed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-6Odbq4Lq0) is/are on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. If the external link you inserted or changed was to a media file (e.g. music or video) on an external server, then note that linking to such files may be subject to Wikipedia's copyright policy, as well as other parts of our external links guideline. If the information you linked to is indeed in violation of copyright, then such information should not be linked to. Please consider using our upload facility to upload a suitable media file, or consider linking to the original.
If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 16:47, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

The sympathy of the world is with Lori Lieberman, not Charles Fox or Norman Gimbel

I can see by your editing history and your username that you are connected to Charles Fox (composer). You must stop editing his biography in a non-neutral manner. According to the WP:Conflict of interest guideline, you can suggest changes on the talk page, at Talk:Charles Fox (composer). However, the sympathy of the world is with Lori Lieberman, not Fox. You will not be allowed to whitewash Fox's reputation with regard to the song "Killing Me Softly with His Song".

Songwriting partners Charles Fox and Norman Gimbel signed 19-year-old Lori Lieberman to a management contract in 1971, taking an exorbitant 20 percent of her earnings, double the usual 10. Then Gimbel romanced Lieberman, initiating an affair even though he was married and 24 years older. Today in the #MeToo era, this behavior looks very bad, and with the onerous contract, makes both Fox and Gimbel look like predators. Later in 1976, when Lieberman wanted to leave her unsuccessful contract, Fox and Gimbel fleeced her of $27,000 in cash and insisted she pay them $250,000 in future income. Predators, for sure.

Lieberman had the initial inspiration for "Killing Me Softly with His Song", and wrote some lyrics down on a napkin. Lieberman's friend Michele Willens confirms this as a witness (Willens is the daughter of political philanthropist Harold Willens and the niece of writer Doris Willens.) Fox composed the music for the song, and Gimbel wrote/reworked a substantial portion of the lyrics, but the two men decided to cut Lieberman out of any royalties by signing their names as the only two writers. This avaricious action diverted millions of dollars from Lieberman to Fox and Gimbel when the song became a huge hit.

In 1997, Lieberman told The New York Times that Fox and Gimbel had been "very, very controlling... I felt victimized for most of my early career." After that, Fox was angry with Lieberman and never spoke to her again. He wrote the self-serving revisionist book Charles Fox to try and change the story, but everyone saw through the deceit.

In the early 1970s, Fox and Gimbel were busy telling the world that Lieberman had the initial inspiration for the song. This version of history is in print many places, disproving Fox's anti-Lieberman fantasy. Billboard magazine in 1974 said "Lieberman, Gimbel and Fox are really a song-producing team", not just Fox and Gimbel. Gimbel told Billboard that he needed Lieberman's inspiration to write his lyrics. Lieberman said she wrote about 20 songs before meeting Gimbel and Fox.

It's this kind of historical record that will preclude you from the attempted whitewash of Fox with regard to Lieberman. You can't change history. Binksternet (talk) 18:33, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

this email just showed up on my inbox from a month ago-- and it reminded me of what loser journalism you provided on a site that people go to for facts. Your two characte references are: Don McLean, who is a twice convicted wife beater who (even worse:) publicly disowned and disinherited his children for protecting their mother... and Lieberman, a rich beautiful white heiress who by her mid 20s had wrecked Gimbel's marriage and then two of her own-- She literally had Paris Hilton's upbringing, spoiled and beautiful and entitled, made 4 albums, none sold, still got to make a "best of Lori Lieberman" album-- hardly a victim-- but now she's old and bitter. Meanwhile, you're questioning Fox & Gimbel's integrity AND ability to write a great song? Two self made sons of immigrants. Fox had 60 yrs with same wife and beloved throughout the film and record business. Killing me Softly was only one of their great songs, and not either of their best. Gimbel had 20 hits before he met Fox (including Girl From Ipanema) and after they left Lieberman-- together they had 2 Oscar nominations, 5 hit songs, scored dozens of movies and tv shows, Gimbel actually won an Oscar in 1980 (norma are)-- And Lieberman wrote nothing before or after... and even during- only claims to have written her feelings on a mysterious napkin after seeing the aforementioned wife beater Mclean-- What cause are you supporting? How could you assume Fox & Gimbel ever needed help... and what would make you think Lieberman could help, if it was needed. Get a job, a career and a life, Sir! Irvingredman (talk) 22:06, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

References