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ClanDestine

Hi. Thank you for adding the cited portion of this material to the ClanDestine article. However, I removed the portion of it that was uncited. I tried adding details and added another cite for the other material, but please do not add uncited material to articles. You're a veteran editor now, and so I assume you know about the various policies requiring citations for material. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 19:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Nightscream: Actually, citations are not required for plot descriptions per WP:PLOTCITE. This is why it is acceptable for the Fictional history section of that article to have so few citations. In regards to the part about the Destines vs. the ClanDestine, I am not familiar with the group's comic background and was merely paraphrasing the text found at Destined (Ms. Marvel)#Writing. Since you appear to be more knowledgeable in this area than me, please let me know if the aforementioned page also contains errors. Thanks. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The fictional history section of which article? The ClanDestine article? It does not have "few" citations, it's filled with them. I know because I'm the one who added them. Or did you mean another article?

You don't have to add a citation for a synopsis in the article on the work in question. But you added mention of plot material from one article in a different article. For that, you do need a cite, whether it's a cite of the episode in question (a primary source), or a secondary source (which is preferred).

This is because the point of WP:V is so that readers know where the information in question came from. When a reader reads plot info in an article on a film, book, etc., it is presumed to come from that work. But a reader coming across the passage in question that you added would not know what episode that info came from. In addition, that section you linked me to was not a synopsis, but analytical or evaluative commentary on the adaptation from a critic, which is a secondary source, and that source is cited for that paragraph.

And you did not merely "paraphrase" that info. The "Noor" dimension and the fact that the Clandestines are trying to get home is not mentioned anywhere at that cited source. Nightscream (talk) 00:56, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Nightscream: I disagree with your reading of WP:PLOTCITE. Nowhere there does it state that plot descriptions need to be sourced for articles not about the work itself, and if what you're saying is true many articles that I know of need to be tagged with {{More citations needed}}, including this GA and this GA (to name a couple). I will also note that the text I added specifically references the Ms. Marvel series, so technically readers do know where the information came from.

I think you may be misunderstanding me about the paraphrasing bit. You wrote here that That is not the name of the group in the comics, nor does the cited source say so. The name of the comics group is simply the Destine family. "ClanDestine" is just a play on words used as the name of the series. So, I was trying to explain above that the text I added (The 2022 Disney+ series Ms. Marvel feature a group known as the Clandestines, which shares the name of the ClanDestine from the comics.) was paraphrased from Destined (Ms. Marvel)#Writing (The episodes introduces the antagonists of the series, the Clandestines, Djinns trying return to their home Noor dimension after being exiled on Earth. This group shares the name of an "obscure family of enhanced people" from the comics, the ClanDestine.). If this information is inaccurate, please correct the error on the aforementioned episode article as well. InfiniteNexus (talk) 02:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@InfiniteNexus: I wasn't referencing PLOTCITE specifically. I was talking about the rationale behind WP:V, WP:CS, et al on a general level. The reason we add citations is so that readers know where info comes from. A reader would have no way of knowing where the info you added came from. They would have no way of knowing if it came from the show itself (and if so, which episode), or a secondary source.

This is not the case for a synopsis or plot summary in the article on that work, because, as I stated above, a reader can presume that it comes from the work itself. Per WP:TVPLOT, WP:FILMPLOT, WP:BOOKPLOT, a narrative work can serve as its own primary source for the purpose of its content and credits. But that info was not in the plot summary of the Ms. Marvel article, but a subsection on the writing on the series --- and WP:PLOTCITE does indeed specify the plot summary. In any event, we need to keep in mind the essential reason or rationale for a given policy or guideline.

Moreover, you added analytical/evaluative material that assesses the manner in which the given work adapted elements from the source material, which per WP:SYNTH, does indeed require a secondary source.

Lastly, the citation for that material in the Ms. Marvel article does not make any mention of the Noor dimension or the Clandestines imperative to return home. Since that does not appear in the plot summary of an episode, it needs a cite, even if it's just an episode cite. Since that series is airing, there must be lots of review articles on its, so why not just find one or two and accompany them with that material you wish to add/retain to articles? Hell, here are some. (The CBR one mentions the Noor dimension, but not their desire to return home):

• https://www.slashfilm.com/921093/what-happened-to-the-clandestines-in-ms-marvel-episode-5-the-veil-of-noor-explained/
• https://nerdist.com/article/ms-marvel-time-travel-what-happened-to-clandestine-marve/
• https://www.cbr.com/ms-marvel-agents-of-shield-nod-mcu-disney-plus/

I apologize for misunderstanding your comment about paraphrasing. But yes, I did remove the uncited info from the Ms. Marvel article. Nightscream (talk) 12:27, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) This material on the Ms. Marvel article The episodes introduces the antagonists of the series, the Clandestines, Djinns trying return to their home Noor dimension after being exiled on Earth. was not unsupported by the existing Collider source. In that source, it stated: The Djinns have been wandering Earth for centuries, trying to find a way back home. And the key for the Djinns' “Nooro”/Light dimension... That supported that material in my views. Regardless, I've added to the article and the ClanDestine article, this source from Screen Rant which says: Ms. Marvel season 1, episode 3, "Destined" introduces the ClanDestine, a group of powerful ancient Djinn. In the series, the Clandestine have been stuck on Earth for over a hundred years, with their only desire being to get back to their home dimension. As it turns out, Kamala's bangle is the key to the Noor Dimension, causing the Clandestines to seek her help. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Nightscream: I stand by my statement that a source is not necessary for the sentence In the series, they are depicted as Djinn exiled from the Noor dimension who are connected to Kamala Khan. on the ClanDestine article, per WP:PLOTCITE and the GA examples I linked above. That being said, of course it is perfectly fine to cite a source nonetheless, and I thank Favre for doing so on both the ClanDestine and Ms. Marvel article. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:44, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

You're wrong. It is indeed necessary because the reader needs to know where that information comes from (the same reason most other pieces of information needs a cite), and because the statement constitutes a interpretative claim about how material in one medium or work was adapted into another, which is not explicitly found in the cited source. You go on and on about PLOTCITE, but you don't address any of the things I've said about WP:SYNTH, about WP:V, etc, and without falsifying any of the statements I've made, whereas I have directly responded to your points about PLOTCITE. Can you falsify or refute any of my arguments, yes or no? Nightscream (talk) 03:40, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

​ Again, I am not referring to the sentence about them being adapted from the comics to TV, I am referring to the sentence that summarizes their role in the series (In the series, they are depicted as Djinn exiled from the Noor dimension who are connected to Kamala Khan.). That sentence describes the plot of the Ms. Marvel show, so it should be clear to readers that the source is the Ms. Marvel show. This is not analytical or evaluative in any way, so WP:SYNTH does not apply here. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:15, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

New page reviewer granted

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@Arbitrarily0: Thanks. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Pixel 4a

I was disappointed because it has no SD slot. Why are missing features not important? Polluks ★ 17:57, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

@Polluks: It is unnecessary to note non-existent features unless they are highly unusual/noteworthy. This is not the case here, as phones without an SD card slot is fairly common (not to mention the fact that Pixels have never had one). InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:05, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

July 2022

Thank you for making a report at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Reporting and removing vandalism is vital to the functioning of Wikipedia and all users are encouraged to revert, warn, and report vandalism. However, it appears that the editor you reported may not have engaged in vandalism, or the user was not sufficiently or appropriately warned. Please note there is a difference between vandalism and unhelpful or misguided edits made in good faith. If the user continues to vandalise after a recent final warning, please re-report it. Thank you. IanDBeacon (talk) 17:23, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

They can pretty much be considered a vandalism-only account based on their edits, but sure. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:28, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

DYK for LaMDA

On 19 July 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article LaMDA, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that an erroneous claim that the neural language model LaMDA is sentient has generated conversations on the efficacy of the Turing test? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/LaMDA. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, LaMDA), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 19 July 2022 (UTC)