User talk:IZAK/Archive 17

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Template:biblegateway

Hi, thanks for your reasonable adjustment to the template I created.

I made a comment here: Template_talk:Biblegateway#Change_in_format. I am not associated with that website, nor am I a great fan of their origins. However, they do an outstanding and well-made range of Christian translations.

I would like to continue with sensitive NPOV contributions on some of the pages where both Jews and Christians have an interest. I declare myself a Christian, but interested in that NPOV!

I hope to see you around. I have found the contributions of yours that I have glanced at to be very valuable. I hope you will come to think the same. — Dizzley (Peter H) 12:06, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

See Book of Amos#External links - I hope you like the effect. Dizzley (Peter H)

Carlebach Edit War

Please spare me your shtuyot, I've been responding on the talk page all evening. I have put in a request for mediation, and I respectfully request that you leave the page alone until then. I will make a request for protection if you don't. Ckessler

• Ckessler: You have not discussed the section in dispute, you have merely reverted me three times! Then, you are not dealing with my objections as they relate to the substance of the section in dispute, all you can mutter is that my "bias" is showing, and implying that somehow you are magically devoid of any bias yourself when you act to revert blindly. You are not addressing the crux of the issue, which is how to define and edit what befits a Wikipedia article. Not every hearsay and gossip that gets said about famous people becomes part of an article, least of all information that requires careful definition and clarification before it can be included. You are treating a very delicate matter in a highly cavalier way. IZAK 09:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Sadducees and Pharisees

Shalom!

Thanks for your message. I changed the 'saggucee' and 'saggucees' articles round as it seemed to make more sense that way; followed the same pattern as the 'pharisee'and 'pharisees' articles. I hope that was OK. I had a go at adding 'saggucees' to the 'Jew' portal sidebar on the article, but figured I wouldn't manage it without screwing it up. I don't know how important they were 'back in the day' anyway, but I just thought I'd leave a not to say thanks for the message and I hope my modification of the articles was OK (I see you are a big contributor to the Judaism-related articles). Joe 10:15, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Joe: What are "suggucees", isn't it Sadduccees? IZAK 04:57, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, it is, of course, but I think I spelt it right when I edited ...not that it matters now, with me having messed that up. Thanks for your continued support.

Invitation

The Mediation Cabal

You are a disputant in a case listed under Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases. We invite you to be a mediator in a different case. Please read How do I get a mediator assigned to my case? for more information.
SteveBot (talk) 07:30, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

--Fasten 13:12, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi, this "invitation" is a little behind the times. User:Ckessler made the request on one recent evening when just the two of us were editing the same Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach article, and in fact after she had made three reverts and after I warned her, she then went seeking "mediation". Since that time the discussion has been joined by several other editors (JFW | T@lk; Jayjg^(talk); User:Yoninah; and User:SlimVirgin) who know a lot about the subject, and they are basically in agreement with me (see Talk:Shlomo Carlebach#Allegations, yet again and the article's history [1]), so the issue is not about mediation with me, it would mean mediation with a larger group as well (if that is what User:Ckessler still wants.) IZAK 06:16, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

You are invited anyway. Feel free to ignore the invitation. --Fasten 17:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Fasten: I have no problem with accepting the "invitation". In any case I had already added some of my responses at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-03-23 Shlomo Carlebach on the very night that the request for mediation was made by User:Ckessler but I never heard anything since, so I am surprised that you are now still going along with it because the other party that asked for the mediation first seems to have backed off and "taken a back seat" perhaps because quite a few other editors have disagreed with her initial reactions. Either way, keep me posted, and when I log on I will be glad to follow up and give you my responses. Thanks again. IZAK 04:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

It is an invitation to be a mediator. You can accept the invitation no matter whether you have an open mediation case or not. --Fasten 08:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh I see, the problem is that I do not have the time for it. Thank you for the offer. IZAK 02:07, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

‎"‎װיקיפּעדיע‎"‎ and ‎"‎װיקיביבליאָטעק‎‎"‎

sholem-aleykhem IZAK! Beside ‎"‎װיקיפּעדיע‎"‎ ‎"‎װיקיביבליאָטעק‎‎"‎ stared today. I would be happy if you could help building the projects in Yiddish. A gut wokh Gangleri · Th · T 17:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

• A gutte voch Gangleri! Unfortunately I do not have enough time to devote to the Yiddish Wikipedia. My priority is to work on the English articles. Hatzlachah Rabbah and best wishes, IZAK 06:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Sadducee/Sadducees

Eeek! I'm just getting started here; thanks for the help. It's a good thing we have experienced users like you to help. I'm glad you did or else someone with a lot less patience with people like me could have got angry...

Anyway, I hope you agree with/approve of the rename, it seemed to make sense. --Joe 12:01, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Another (small) problem...

A formatting one this time, if you look at the articles Orli Shoshan, J.R. Smith and probably many others, I have found it imposible to place commas in the dates, before the year; this may have somthing to do with the dates being links to articles or in brackets, but I thought you might know a way round it. Thanks! --Joe 12:13, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Joe: The reason you are having trouble putting those commas into dates is because you are trying to do somethinng that is NOT part of the Wikipedia way of doing things. On Wikipedia, there are no commas between month dates and year dates, so you should stop wasting your time by trying to so. You need to spend more time getting familiar with Wikipedia's style/s, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style, before you try to edit articles and get frustrated and cause unintended problems. Thanks for asking. IZAK 04:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Okay, but on Wikipedia:How to copy-edit in the "Commonly required copy-edits" section it says 'Constructions such as "London, England" call for a comma or other appropriate punctuation at the end. Similarly, the year is also set off with punctuation, as in "June 10, 1993"...' and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) in the "Incorrect date formats" section says not to do it the way I did. The articles conflict; I thought I was being helpful in trying to do this; but nevertheless I will spend a bit of time reading Wikipedia:Manual of Style before I do any more editing. Thanks again for your patience with me :) --Joe 12:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

ichud

Hello! Can you expand the "ichud"? (not "yichud(unity)" ; about especially wedding and religioius/political philosophy).

• I edited the page, it had some mistakes. At the end of an Orthodox Judaism marraige ceremony, the newly married couple goes into a room together and it's also called Yichud (not "ichud'). IZAK 04:19, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

is there a page like the Requested articles in the Portal or Project Judaism page?

• I suggest you place such requests at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism. IZAK 04:19, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

see the interlang of de:Portal:Judentum/Fehlende Artikel. --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 13:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Ovadia Yosef

Well, it's kind of odd. On the one hand, Zadil has deleted properly sourced information, insisting that his own original research proves it to be incorrect. This, of course, is against multiple policies, but unsurprising. On the other hand, the material itself was inserted by User:Al-Andalus, as an attempt to smear Ashkenazi Jews, though it ended up smearing Yosef instead, which was not his intent. I'm not sure what should be done; what do you recommend? Jayjg ^(talk) 18:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, I know it was tricky, I was hoping that someone could edit "over-and-above" the biases of the two, since my own time is limited. IZAK 04:21, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Persian Jews Talk page:On Race

Hey Izak, if your looking for some humour look at this guys argument on the Persian Jews talk page, its under the "On Race" section.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 08:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Moshe: Sorry that I have not had time to look into this. Best wishes, IZAK 20:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem with moving article

Chabad-Strashelye was moved to Strashelye (Hasidic dynasty) via copy and paste, thus lossing the the discussion and edit history. Would you know how to fix this page move? Shlomke 05:02, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Never copy and paste a move. Wikipidia rules are against this. I will try to revert. Thanks. Then request the move from an admin, or at requested moves. Let me see... IZAK 20:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Looks like someone already took care of the problem. IZAK 20:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Troubling edit at Rashash

Chodesh tov, Yitziq. This edit makes me uncomfortable. When you get a chance, please check it out, and, if you can't find an authoritative source to make sure the edit is in/correct, hopefully someone you know can do so. Thanks for your time and attention. Tomer^talk 08:46, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Tomer: I would say revert that change, it looks too suspicious and peculiar. IZAK 20:57, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, now the issue is murkier than ever for me... Tomer^talk 06:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yaakov Meidan

Rav Meidan, now a Rosh Yeshiva in Yeshivat Har Etzion, recently requested that his name be spelled in English publications as "Yaaqov Medan." As you can imagine, this spelling garners much fewer Google hits than when spelled with a k. Should his article, and all mentions of him, be changed to "Yaaqov" in deference to him as a self-identifying entity, or not? I'm not familiar enough with WP:NC to know the answer. Thanks, DLand 18:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi DLand: Firstly can you DOCUMENT what you claim, otherwise who says it's even true that it is what he wants? Secondly I have asked a few other editors for their views, so wyou will hear about it. Thirdly, I do not have a opinion, I think it can LEGITIMATELY go either way because Hebrew language naming conventions have not been standardized on Wikipedia and they probably never will be (since Hebrew names come from so many legitimate traditions and histories: Israeli vs. non-Israeli; Ashkenazi vs. Sephardi; conventional common usage vs. academic technical; and even Hasidic vs. the rest ! See Category:Hebrew words for the range of possibilities.) But I guess, being that Judaism teaches retzono shel adam zeh k'vodo and in this case you claim that the good rabbi wants his name written in a specific way in English(?) yet so we should probably respect his wishes if that is indeed what he wants even though it is NOT the common spelling for the name as you found out on Google. Be well. IZAK 20:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
  • As for documentation, the YHE office sent out an email to alumni notifying people of Rav Meidan's request. This is reflected in the latest edition of the alumni publication Etzion Update (PDF) in the first couple of lines. It may seem rather odd that Rav Medan would make a public announcement over such a minute issue, but I assume it has to do with the fact that he is a Bible scholar who is involved in the world of Jewish academia. It is like him to be medakdek in things like this. Thanks, DLand 21:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I assume you mean m'daqdeq?  :-D As IZAK points out, we have no standardized Hebrew transliteration scheme on Wikipedia, as much as many of us wish we did... the problem with developing one is that there are too many strong proponents of a scheme who know beyond a shadow of a doubt that theirs is the "correct" scheme, and all of them/us have sound rationales for why. That said, while retzono shel adam ze kvodho is not a wikipolicy, respecting people's wishes regarding articles about themselves, and the use of their names, does play a significant rôle in discussion about how WP should treat text regarding them. In this case, many people go with "Yaakov", apparently because lack the ability to distinguish between ק and כ ... just as they likewise cannot distinguish between ט and ת or ח and ך...and, more relevantly in this case, between א and ע... If he wants to be listed as Yaaqov, I see no strong argument denying his request. Redirects (in this case from Yaakov => Yaaqov) are cheap. Tomer^talk 11:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Further comments on this matter should be made at Talk:Yaakov Meidan. --DLand 19:09, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Sifra, Sifre

Hello! Can you expand the Sifra and Sifre aticle? --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 16:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Request your input on article Goddamn Jew

Shalom! I'd appreciate your input on this article in that article's talk page. Light Orlanu Brecker 07:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Kabbalah Centre

Hey, earlier you edited the Kabbalah Centre article. I've made some edits to it, in particular, branching off the list of celebrities into a separate list since it was getting unwieldly. Please see my comments on the talk page about need for sourcing and other issues. Also, what would you think of noting which of the involved celebrities were Jewish and/or of Jewish ancestry? JoshuaZ 01:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeshivat haKotel or Yeshivat Hakotel

Rishon LeZion or Rishon Lezion Is there a consensus about uppercase letters mid-word? --Shuki 20:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I would use that as an example, as the shva may be better represented by an apostraphe as such “Rishon L'Tzion” -- Avi 20:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Check this out

Look up the category of Jewish chess players (I can't link it from here for some reason). Note Kasparov's name--he's not halachically Jewish. I haven't really checked it out, but others on this list probably aren't either. Have a great Pesach! --Yodamace1 20:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Judah haNasi

Hey IZAK, b"H it's been a good pesach thus far...plus Shabath was my birthday, so it's been busy! As for this username, it's arguably a poor choice, but I don't know that it's particularly insulting/denigratory, nor that there's a lot of room for confusion between a WP editor and a Talmudic sage... I'll think about it tho and prolly comment after yom tov on his talk page. Chagh sameach vekasher, kol tov, etc., -t Tomer^talk 05:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Tomer: The problem with this user name is not that it is "derogatory" (read my objections carefully) but rather that it is mis-using and trivializing a name very important to Judaism, which the user does not seem to grasp sufficiently, judging by his earlier comments to another objector to his poor choice of user name. Have a happy Yom Tov and enjoy those last scraps of Matzo. Happy Birthday by the way, and many more. IZAK 05:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

shalom

thanks izak for everything i've been using wikipedia for sometime now, years actually but only now i've decided to be a part of it as a user which sprung off my recently acquired online activities i joined a few boards and got into myspace again so, yeah, that's life nowadays i like wikipedia i see lots of potential i see really cool people too how did you find me? was it the tetragammaton page? i like that you're a hebrew learned jewish man i'm not jewish but i'm fascinated by jewish history i'm an all ancient guy i'm a roman christian with rabbinic tendencies and greek philosophies K2 02:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

RE: Boro Park article

there was an addition in which you added more about the Boro park riot. I thought it was interesting that jewish leaders and the local jewish press condemned the actions of the rioters, but I would like to know what newspapers you are referring to. Some online links or names would be excellent. --Screwball23 ^talk 22:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't like your tone and your attitude on my talk page. I admit that I do not have a "deep" understanding of Orthodox Judaism, but my explanation of Haredi is not "dumb." You might feel that what i report is biased, but I don't like to white-wash history, especially in a riot that Mayor Bloomberg himself called a riot. In fact, when i asked you previously (above) for some links to prove me right, that the jewish press called it a riot, you never responded, casting doubt on how unbiased and willfully you want to help me. I would like to work together, and i welcome your contributions on Orthodox judaism. However, since I am more interested in history, i write what i know and love and you can do the same.

Don't attack an addition i make as "dumb." Instead, use your time, knowledge, and energy to good use. Sincerely, Screwball23 ^talk 18:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

speaking of usernames

how about this gem?  :-p Tomer^talk 03:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Save image

Can you save this image (Image:Jewish warrior memorial.jpg) by translating appopriate copyright info from he wiki?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

wimpel

I see that you removed a link regarding "Wimpel" from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:JewishLifeCycle&diff=16720491&oldid=8047420

There is indeed such a jewish practice as "bringing a Wimpel" you can email me at eli0m-IZAK at yahoo to discuss.

My user name

It's nice to know that I can count on support from a fellow yid !!! I can see why some of the Christians say you, Eliezer, EMs2 and one or two others are so POV violative they stop contributing. Frankly, I'm probably going to do the same. I have spent most of my time either with innocuous minor edits on random articles or trying to keep Christian stuff NPOV. If my own people are going to stab me in the back, the hell with it. Judah haNasi 06:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

• Hi, you have misunderstood me. See my response at User talk:Judah haNasi#Your name. Thanks. IZAK 03:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Passover in the Christian tradition

Lest you not see it there, I'm cross-posting this from Talk:Passover: Izak, it would have been courteous if you had chosen to discuss your excision of this section prior to doing so. This matter was discussed some weeks ago, and no one seriously challenged the proposition that the section is about the Jewish holiday, and its impact on the Christian tradition. Passover is not a Christian holiday, except perhaps in some fringe movements, and I challenge you to point to any liturgical formularies of the major denominations that suggest that it is. Rather than get into a reversion war, I'd appreciate an explanation of how, in your estimation, the section in question was not relevant to the Jewish holiday. Fishhead64 03:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

• Fishhead: By now you know that many editors were angered by your actions that triggered this entire episode. IZAK 11:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Had an eye-opening Pesach

Hi, I've been waiting for you to come back from Pesach break, and you did so with a bang! I admire all the time and heart you devote to defending Judaism on Wikipedia. I posted another comment on the Talk:Passover page, but I want to let you know that I'm not going to be an active editor anymore. Perhaps it was that sneaky Christian POV insertion into an article I worked so hard on, perhaps it was just the message of "freedom" which Pesach conveyed, but I have decided to curtail my extremely involved, time-consuming (and non-paying) work on Wikipedia—which can be erased a second later with one click of the mouse—in favor of my career of writing and editing articles and books that give chizuk directly to Jews. Kol tuv, Yoninah 16:34, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, see my response to this on your talk page User talk:Yoninah#Glad to see you around a bit. Best wishes and please stay in contact. IZAK 11:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I really appreciate your suggestions. My problem is that Wikipedia is a big yetzer hara for me. I love to initiate new articles and edit them to perfection. I also have free time which I tend to spend in front of my computer instead of doing housework. I like your suggestion of going slow and being more focused.

Now I am working on a total rewrite of Shavuot. However, it's really going to bug me if some non-Jew is going to start a whole row about defining Shavuot as Pentecost. I perceive a lot of anti-Semitic bias in the contributions of Christian and Muslim editors to the Jewish-theme pages. It also seems to me that each subject (and there are millions of them on Wikipedia) is being worked on by a very small group of editors who go through the exact same tiffs and spats, RfC's and AfD's, etc. I really want to stay out of the politics of this, but I see it can't be helped. You either have to defend your article to the death or try to wait it out until the other party gives up and goes away. Do you think any of the Wikiproject:Judaism articles will ever be finalized into featured articles so no one can touch them anymore? Kol tuv, Yoninah 18:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

WP:NC (Hebrew)

First of all, I've made a few more comments to that discussion (Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Hebrew)), you might want to review them. But the real reason I left a message was for you to take a look at Talk:List of Egged bus lines where two users who are relatively new to Wikipedia keep reverting my transliteration (which is done according to WP:NC (Hebrew)'s draft, as well as WP:NC itself) to things they think are correct, which have even been labelled incorrect in the article talks themselves. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:34, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Category:Contemporary Orthodox rabbis

Could you please provide your opinion on the choice of moving living Category:Orthodox rabbis to Category:Contemporary Orthodox rabbis? Thanks --Shuki 21:08, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Categories for individuals

This is just to tell you that I found your n reasons for not having lists of Jewish vegetarian zoologists (say) to be quite convincing. Thank you. Do tell me if the matter comes up in discussion again. Hasdrubal 03:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yakir Yerushalayim

Just started this article. If you have any further info on the award or any recipients, please update. Thanks! Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 15:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

More recently added articles that may interest you

And to which you may be able to contribute...

• Malachi ben Jacob
• Hezekiah Gaon
• Moses ben Hanoch
• Isaac ben Ezra
• Menahem ben Saruq
• Abraham Prochownik (this was the subject of a little tif between me and Ghirlandajo)
• Abraham of Aragon
• Bebai ben Abaye

--Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 15:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Important Message for Izak:

Wikipedia guidelines: "Unless it is self-evident and uncontroversial that something belongs in a category, it should not be put into a category." Nesher 17:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Halakhic Objections to Partnership Minyan and Related Topics

IZAK, could you do me a favor and identify key articles or other sources you know about summarizing objections or counterarguments to halakhic aspects of Shira Hadasha style services? Iit would be useful to identify key sources and perhaps provide some links. Feel free to bring up and source additional halakhic objections besides the ones already listed. --Shirahadasha 01:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you for your observations. IZAK 11:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Dalia Itzik.jpg

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Categories of vegetarian painters and what not

I thought you might be interested in the discussion now going on in Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 May 4. Hasdrubal 19:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Category talk:Orthodox rabbis

I'll check it out. Could you look into better sourcing for Cherem? Tomer^talk 23:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

True Torah Jews

This is not Neturei Karta it’s a complete different group with no connection to Neturei Karta Bloger 17:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Ok, but what is their significance? Do they exist in any way that really matters? IZAK 11:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Afd tag removal from Berel Wein

Hi IZAK, if you are objecting to the deletion proposal on Berel Wein you need to object via the [appropriate page] rather than just reverting the Afd tag. Peripitus 12:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Peripitus: I have absolutely no objections to a normal AfD procedure, but User:PZFUN placed a tag that went to the wrong place (which you corrected) and which aroused my suspicions and I warned him accordingly User talk:PZFUN#Berel Wein vandalism. My question remains, and assertion remains, that User:PZFUN knows ZERO about the subject of the article and had no business sticking his nose into an area he is not qualified to judge. Thanks for your concern. IZAK 12:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

IZAK, very poor argument. What's wrong with not being parochial and trying to fix up wikipedia content and quality? Are you saying that wikipedians shouldn't stick their nose where others like yourself think theyshouldn't belong? I have no clue about many subjects but it doesn't prevent me from browsing around and helping out the project at large. and FWIW, you know that we are always kept to a higher standard. This user, for whatever his motives, made a valid edit. Rather than delete the afd tag, YOU yourself should have corrected it, not delete it. When we pass obstacles, we grow. You should thank that editor for dropping in a bringing this article up, Rabbi Wein deserves more. --Shuki 14:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Shuki: I have no idea what you are carrying on about. It is not clear to me which part of "the argument" you are referring to? I agree that there is nothing wrong with "fixing up" poorly written articles! The tags to improve the Berel Wein article were inserted after the vote for deletion (VfD) began. The problem began earlier when User:PZFUN wanted to WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE article by submitting it for a vote for deletion and he did it yet in an incorrect fashion by not having his requested vote go to the right place see it connect with "Rattlin' Bog", which is why it smelled of vandalism to me (something that happens quite often to Jewishly-related article -- if you haven't noticed that by now...) and I thus reverted his edit. Then came along another user User:Peripitus and spotted the error of User:PZFUN and corrected it. That is to his credit. When the nomination was then correctly set up, all I objected to was that the nomination for deletion (AfD) was done by an editor who himself now admits he knows nothing about the subject and that he made a mistake [2]. Finally, I am flabbergasted and bewildered by your comment that: "You should thank that editor for dropping in a bringing this article up, Rabbi Wein deserves more" which I do not understand? Are you saying that I should thank someone for wanting to DELETE an article about Rabbi Berel Wein? What kind of logic is that? What if I had not noticed and had not responded (since I had had the Berel Wein article on my watchlist) and it would have been deleted, would that have been more to your liking? Should we now sit around and expect any Tom-Dick-and-Harry who know ZERO about Judaism to nominate any articles relating to Judaism and then ... we should "thank them", huh? I do not understand you! IZAK 08:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

IZAK, A) goyim is only a derogatory word because of ignorance. None of my 'goyish' friends, or anyone I might meet on an internet forum, is let go without learning that a goy is a 'nation', and goyim are 'the nations'. When something is 'goyish', it is merely non-Jewish.

• B) Thank you for bringing my attention to that article, it has NOR in it.
• C) Some minimal research would have shown you that PZFUN has been on wp since NOV 2004, and is quite a good, general and consistent contributor. A scan of his contributions over this time doesn't show ANY example of anti-semitic vandalism or mischief either. What are you talking about 'you get along w/editors as long as they are not anti-semites'? Are you implying that PZFUN is/was openly anti-semitic? That's harsh and quite uncivil, IMO. Did something else on his profile bother you??
• D) Where did you come to the conclusion that PZFUN is an admin? Rogue admin?
• E) I asked you to take a step back and imagine that the original R. Wein article was about a non-jewish related person and judge. I sincerely agree that if that article had been about some unnotable Tom Sanders, the AFD would be legitimate following virtually all the guidelines in WP:AFD; unreferenced, negligible 'links to', uncat, no specifc proper nouns, not one example of a publication, and one reference to some managing position at OU. Sure an expand template could have been added, but you seem to know the real motive for PZFUN's actions.
• F) Above all, I still can't understand why you felt that YOU had to chew PZFUN out instead of taking a 'kinder, gentler' first-time offence approach. Your knee-jerk reaction definitely led to bystanders thinking not unlike what CrazyRussian typed onto PZFUN's talk page. 'Leave the Jews alone'. Wonderful.
• G) You took it upon yourself to understand that PZFUN was making a fundamental change of wp policy, when really, it was apparently first-time offence. Relax man, please. We all screw up sometimes, and the magic of wp is that it is correctable. Let the process work it's way out. If R. Wein's article had been deleted, big deal, it's only a frickin article on the net that would eventually get reposted properly. I'd rather post a concise stub than a large unreferenced OR article the R. Wein originally seemed to be.
• H) It is not mussar to tell you that you are wrong to clearly imply that wp editors should stick to their own religion, nationality, and interests instead of trying to improve wp in general. While I concentrate on Israel, I also think it is an obligation to hit 'random article' at least once every session in order to try and help out the project itself and do tikkun olam b'malchut shadai. Again, baruch hashem, others Jews aren't selfish and don't ignore the rest of WP, and baruch hashem, many goyim think the same way and contribute to Jewish articles, especially w/r to structure, format, etc...
• I) Learn to accept criticism, even from half-year newbies who you have no clue who they really are, and please refrain from telling fellow editors they can't criticize you. You are not super-admin.
• J) Be bold is in the instructions you led me to read in the welcome note you first put on my page. Now, where do we meet for a felafel --Shuki 20:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Shuki: Well I am glad to see that you are up to speed on everything Wikipedian! Here are some of my reactions to your comments: UserPZFUN says that he is an admin on his user page (which I did look at before the critique), see: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/PZFUN. Is that a lie? Nowhere do I accuse him of anti-Semitism (I see that you enjoy twisting around words...hmmm, what a pity.) While User:PZFUN may well be a lover of Jews, that does not mean that he gets a "free pass" when he does a weird thing to an article about a well-known rabbi. You may not know it or accept it, but the word "goy" or "goyim" is considered to be derogatory regardless of what you tell your non-Jewish pals in chat rooms (again more habitual word-twisting on your part I guess.) What's "NOR"? I cannot read your mind. I don't accept any of your thinking about how to handle articles that we know nothing about. I suggest, when in doubt stay away, or else violate the age old saying that "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". (In Hebrew it's more blunt: hedyot kofetz berosh.) Your statement that: "Again, baruch hashem, others Jews aren't selfish and don't ignore the rest of WP, and baruch hashem, many goyim think the same way and contribute to Jewish articles, especially w/r to structure, format, etc..." is hilarious and beyond the scope of this discussion. This is Wikipedi and ANYONE can edit, do you think I don't know that? So your musar, yet again, is quite amusing. I welcome constructive criticism, but do know that I am often quite frank and honest, as most people who have gone head-to-head with me know. Finally thanks for asking me out, but lately I have been into freshly boiled kosher chicken soup more than falafel, so you are welcome to try mine any time. By the way, I don't care who you are in real life! IZAK 04:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, you got blocked, and then you derided it by implying that PZFUN sent some friends to do it? If it were true (which you are so quick to imply), then what's wrong with that (using comrades)? You're a master of getting folks together to back you up in your battles. I'm sorry that you view wp as a personal fiefdom and warn other editors about the ramifications of going head-to-head with you. You win on the PZFUN admin issue. I had looked in the admin cat, and only now found the 'list of admins'. You don't have to accept my opinions or from others either, but as the tzaddik you make yourself out to be, I'd expect you to at least accept that there are other opinions out there, and at least be modest about your arrogance. I already know I have no chance of having a civil argument with you at this time, you are always right. You are also a weenie snitch. Your gross implication that I threatened you with violence, and then ran to the goyim to show that you are holier than me, was a big hilul hashem. In all my disagreements with you, on this issue, the past otrhto rabbi cat one, or your other irregularities, I have never fathomed running to the goyim (not a derogatory word) to snitch. and FWIW, someone with your mastery of the language should know that NOR means WP:NOR and FWIW means FWIW.

By the way, I don't care who you are in real life! Whatever you say man. I'm no tzaddik, but I truly care about each Jew. Enjoy. --Shuki 22:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

This topic has reached the end of its useful life. Shuki, I've no idea what "weenie snitch" refers to, or "running to the goyim," but you're verging on being abusive, so please give it a rest, and IZAK, I hope you won't respond to it. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Wikiproject Judaism

I've cleaned the mess up. Jayjg ^(talk) 15:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you for all your help! IZAK 11:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Old City

Hi IZAK, I noticed that you made Old City into a redirect to Jerusalem's Old City walls. I feel that this should be an article in its own rights. Any ideas on the matter? Ayinyud 17:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

• It has been a VERY long time since I was involved with those articles, so no doubt they can both be expanded by now (with more editors and information flowing into Wikipedia.) Best wishes, IZAK 11:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Making of a Godol

Thanks for editing it. IdeasLover 01:20, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

• Sure thing, it's a tough subject though. IZAK 11:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)