User talk:HLE/Archive 1

Bolton

Hi, I noticed you make edits to the Bolton pages. It would be good to improve this article to GA standard if possible. I hope you can help :-)--J3Mrs (talk) 14:17, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Rivington

Hello again, I noticed you have created a sandbox page for Rivington. I have some stuff in Word. Can I help you do it?--J3Mrs (talk) 07:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed you have done a good job with the Rivington article today so my sandbox page for Rivington may not be of any use. I still intend to continue with my sandbox for Rivington and you are welcome to edit it if you wish. I'd be interested to see what stuff you have in Word and how it would look in the sandbox. – HLE (talk) 16:29, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

A lot of what I have in Word is now in but there are a lot more references. I am struggling to find a way of citing a pdf document with references to lots of different pages : -( , but I might have to ask somewhere. I just couldn't leave it as it was. Please edit the article, I think you might be more local than me and I haven't been there since I went up the Pike in my teens, and you don't notice the architecture when you're young... and it was a very long time ago. Let me know about any mistakes, there's surely at least one. I hope you think the refs are ok, I've tried to find some easily accessible ones.--J3Mrs (talk) 16:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

this is what I want to reference [1] i wish I 'd found it earlier!!--J3Mrs (talk) 17:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Nice edit btw do you know anything about Governance? I'm a bit stuck there!--J3Mrs (talk) 17:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Rivington and Anglezarke have the same governance history, take a look at the Local Government section of Anglezarke. – HLE (talk) 17:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I'm leaving it to turn into yet another clone.--J3Mrs (talk) 20:45, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Temporary pages / Rivington

Thanks for the help there and also with help at Riivngton article (Rovington (talk) 23:59, 4 June 2010 (UTC))

Geo Co-ordinate links at Rivington

If you can would you please take a a look again at the Rivington article all the links are dead in the Grid reference section. --Rovington (talk) 16:36, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I've checked the grid references and they worked ok for me. I can only assume the website went down at the time or had a problem with you computer. Sorry can't say anymore than that. – HLE (talk) 18:44, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Categories

I really like the category you added, I'd never have thought of it! Guess we were both looking for a map though. --J3Mrs (talk) 20:57, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I see you have referenced the Topymomy section to books with page numbers :-), would you mind if I added the books to the bibliography and used Harvb citations. I think this article might one day make a GA and it would be good to have consistent referencing. Sorry I interrupted your editing earlier I didn't realise you were there. For a little village there is quite a lot of available stuff online.--J3Mrs (talk) 17:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I was in the middle editing, but don't worry about it. You are welcome to add the books to the bibliography in the Rivington article. I don't know what "Harvb citations" are, hope you could tell me about them. – HLE (talk) 19:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll do it, I don't understand any technical stuff really, it's just what I've been shown. You can take a look when I've done. Then you either will or won't get it!--J3Mrs (talk) 20:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Found out about Template:Harvard citations. I'll have a good look at how they work tomorrow. – HLE (talk) 21:10, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

And I couldn't do it!! So I did it another way!--J3Mrs (talk) 21:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I've figured out how they work. I've not added then to the actual Rivington page yet, but you can see how they work in my sandbox page. For the book "Smith, M.D. (1989), Rivington, Lancashire, Nelson Brothers Printers Limited, ISBN 0 9508772 8 X" the ref goes like this:
<ref name=smith1989p4>{{Harvnb|Smith|1989|p=4}}</ref>
then when the ref is needed again all you need is
<ref name=smith1989p4/>
The refs link to the citation in the Bibliography section. – HLE (talk) 12:02, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I knew you'd be able to do it. I can't think why I got it wrong but I have used it lots of times before. You seem to understand these technical things whereas I just don't. I hope you put it on the page. :-)--J3Mrs (talk) 17:34, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Horwich & Rivington

I really had no intention of editing these articles that much but I think that both of them have the potential to make GAs. I've noticed there is quite a lot of info on the Horwich Town Council site and ward statistics should be on the Bolton Council site. It's a pity the Rivington stats are in with Heath Charnock but I'm sure something can be cobbled together. Is there any public transport in Rivington or does it involve a long walk? You seem to know the area, I only know where it is:-) Is there more than one Anglican church in Horwich? that section has me totally confused, it could make a Religion section I suppose. I hadn't intended to make a Hall barn article either, it just happened.--J3Mrs (talk) 21:12, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I've been doing bits and pieces with the Rivington article, but perhaps I should save some information in Word and when ready cut-and-paste it to the article. It was a good idea to create the Rivington Hall Barn article, it is a grade II building in its own right and so don't see why it shouldn't have its own page. I've noticed there is no mention of the old farms and farm buildings, some as old, in not older, as the Great House Barn and Rivington Hall Barn. Obviously I wouldn't expect they to have separate articles for each farm, but a sub-section in the Landmarks section with brief information about them. There is (or was, not sure) a limited bus service to Rivington from Horwich, but usually at the weekends in the summer months. Having very rarely used it, its years since used it, I don't really know to much about it. I'll also see about saving some information about the Horwich page in Word and when ready cut-and-paste it to that article. There's a lot missed out at the moment. I'm not sure that Horwich Town Council should be mentioned too much, if at all, on the Metropolitan Borough of Bolton page. Horwich as you'll know is a civil parish and is looked after by Horwich Town Council. Bolton Council looks after all the whole local authority. They overlap a bit, but are really separate entities. I might see about creating a Horwich Town Council article and cover things such as it town wards, town mayor, town twinning, etc. There are three Anglican churches in Horwich, the oldest by far is Holy Trinity Church (commonly known as Horwich Parish Church) and probably for that reason it is only mentioned. Horwich has two other Anglican Churches, St Catherine's Church (built 1897/98) and St Elizabeth's Church (built c.1970s). The three Horwich Anglican churches and Rivington Anglican church are grouped together as a parish group under one Benefice - see Diocese of Manchester website: Deane Deanery. There are other churches of different denominations. A list of all the churches in Horwich is found on the town council's website. – HLE (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Over the last week I've made a list of Listed buildings, it's not finished, needs some more pics, there are some on Geograph but I simply don't understand Wikipedia Commons (mental block) and if I upload to wikipedia some admin leaves me messages. It needs a bit of expansion of the descriptions, I'll put it in a sandbox. Thanks for replying, I'm a lot clearer now.--J3Mrs (talk) 21:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Assume good faith?

May I suggest that you practice what you preach. You claim that I keep "introducing untrue information on Smithills Hall article. The IP vandal tries to claim that local councillor Roger Hayes resides at Smithills Hall, holds lavish banquets and garden parties, entertained the Norwegian Royal Family and invited former American President Jimmy Carter in August 2010. THe IP vandal may edited under different IP addresses" (sic). Is it "good faith" to assume that any user of a particular shared IP address is a vandal? I gave a source for the disputed information. You tell me that this source is not independent, and refer me to a non-existent page. Very polite. 194.106.220.19 (talk) 13:28, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone with an ounce of sense will realise it was a load of spoof information. The reference you were citing Google cache of MuseumStuff.com is just that, a cached, out of date page. I noticed you didn't use the up to date current page. That didn't suit your purposes. If this so-called information were to be true, then cite which story/stories from the Bolton News website, I'm sure the newspaper would have been reported it. – HLE (talk) 14:27, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Seeking advice

Hi, you were one of the first people to helped me when I first used wikipedia, of which I am very grateful, I am again seeking your help with something. On my talk page there is a link for email, would you please contact me by that link. --Rovington (talk) 18:17, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Your User:Rovington and User talk:Rovington pages don't have an email on either of them. It may be a good idea to add {{email user}} on your User:Rovington page (not on your User talk:Rovington) which will show a little icon on the top right corner. That way you don't need to disclose your email on Wikipedia but users can contact you through it. I've never contacted anyone on Wikipedia via email. I'm sure whether to do it not not. Couldn't you tell me what advice you need through my Wikipedia User talk page? – HLE (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I shall do that, great idea. I have responded in the Barons WIlloughby of Parham talk page as you suggested. There is original research under the section 'Line of Succession and Family' on the articles --Rovington (talk) 22:38, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Holy Trinity Church

I think it might be worth nominating this as a DYK, I'm adding you to the nomination as you have done so much on it, I hope you don't mind.--J3Mrs (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

You'll have let me know what a DYK is, there are still many things about Wikipedia I don't know? It is now a very good article and certainly deserves a C-Class rating. I like the Structure section you've done which describes interior and exterior of the building. – HLE (talk) 20:50, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

It's a Did you know...., it's for new articles, they appear on the Main Page. I've only done it once before but I've just nominated it. It took quarter of an hour to figure out how to do it. :-( I am completely untechnical, a one finger typist, and I can never remember how to do things from one day to the next.--J3Mrs (talk) 21:07, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for including me in the nomination. I'm a semi-multi-finger typist, but like you I forget things and scratch my head. – HLE (talk) 21:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I've just been rummaging through DYK and it looks as though Holy Trinity Church, Horwich will be on the main page from 7.00am tomorrow.--J3Mrs (talk) 13:34, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I've found it on page Template:Did you know/Queue in queue 4, but I've just thought something about it, back in 1565 Greater Manchester didn't exist then. It may be an idea to alter the end to "in the north west of England" or "in the historic county of Lancashire". Or am I being too picky? – HLE (talk) 13:57, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia uses where it is now, well it does on the few articles I've found.--J3Mrs (talk) 14:04, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't know the in-and-outs of Wikipedia's conventions, but you may be right with Wikipedia using the current places and not historic ones. – HLE (talk) 14:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Francis xx Bedford

Thanks for resolving that puzzle. Makes sense now! Ephebi (talk) 14:02, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but I wouldn't have looked into it if J3Mrs hadn't spotted about Francis Bedford's birth date and led to me finding out about Francis Octavius Bedford. – HLE (talk) 15:02, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Holy Trinity Church, Horwich

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:02, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Rivington articles

Hi, just thought I'd mention I finally put Listed buildings in Rivington in mainspace and deleted the list from the Rivington article. I have asked Malleus Fatuorum to look it over to see what it lacks. If it's ok we can nominate it at WP:GAN so long as the IP doesn't keep adding OR and pov. The Horwich article isn't too far off if I can get my head around the Demography section sometime. :-)--J3Mrs (talk) 19:24, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The listed buildings in Rivington page looks great. Well done! Yes I noticed the IP user's edits, as though we don't know who he is. I had a look at Horwich's demography section and came up with a possible idea, see my current sandbox. Remember it is just an idea. You'll see the historical population on the right side, the Horwich compared table and the text begins on the left side. (I also put a references section at the bottom show which refs are being used). Too show it better I've included the following Economy section. I know the historical population table continues down into the Economy section, but I think it doesn't look too bad. The only problem I see is that I don't know if Wikipedia allows a table to encroach into another section or not. I'm sure you'll the text in the demography section does need to be expanded. – HLE (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

You're very good at tables, I can only copy what's there and adapt! I must find some more info for demography, it's out there but I haven't sorted it yet. That will hopefully stop the encroachment by the table. It's different but I like it. I suppose the MoS has something on it, but I've never read most of it. I would like it to get to GA as we have put in a lot of effort, in more ways than one.--J3Mrs (talk) 09:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't give me any credit for the long population table, all I did was fill in Template:Historical populations for Horwich's figures, the rest is done by the template. I've looked up some more information for the demography section and found in About Horwich by M.D.Smith.

"Chapter 8 - The Ridgway Family", is divided into various sections, and one of them "Horwich Parish Church (the third building)" has the opening paragraph (page 52):

In 1774, prior to the arrival of the Ridgways in Horwich, the population was 305 - comprising 156 females and 149 males. By 1801 it had risen to 1,565 and by 1831 this figure had more than doubled to 3,562.

As you may know, Wallsuches Bleachworks opened in 1777 and the population increased, although there is no population figure from 1774 until the first census in 1801.

"Chapter 24 - Horwich Locomotive Works", is also divided into sections, and the first one "The calm before the storm" has the opening paragraph (page 171):

In 1881 the population of Horwich was 3,765 and this number had varied little over the preceding fifty years. The highway rate was fourpence in the £(2p) and these dues were collected by a local farmer whose approach was always known well in advance by the sound of his clogs on the cobblestones. There were 900 houses in the village at the time, rents were relatively cheap and there was no reason to suspect that the future held any suprises in store.

With this and perhaps some more up-to-date information from Neighbourhood Statistics' Area: Horwich CP (Parish) the demography section could then be expanded a little bit. – HLE (talk) 13:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Page protection

Seems like a good idea, let's hope it works. I can't even begin to understand just what he's trying to do.--J3Mrs (talk) 20:06, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Except that he now edits as himself!!--J3Mrs (talk) 15:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

This is one of the reasons I wanted the pages protected, he has to log-in to edit. Also if another registered editor suddenly appears with the same theme he'd caught for sock puppetry. In fact all those IP address edits are effectivley sock puppets.--HLE (talk) 15:54, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm with you now. He can't stop playing silly games though.--J3Mrs (talk) 16:03, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

If he continues I'll report him to the administrators for his behaviour.--HLE (talk) 16:06, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

What do you think of[2] this and[3]? The second editor has only made 3 edits, the first two to Pilkington of Lancashire. Well now I'm rude, a sockpuppet and a stalker. Somebody doesn't realise that all the articles I've edited appear in my watchlist! Unbelievable.--J3Mrs (talk) 11:59, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I too keep a good number of pages on my watchlist. He's saying we are one person and accuses us for sockpuppetry and stalkering. I'm offended by his comment. Well the gloves are off now!--HLE (talk) 16:58, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not the first time he's accused me of stalking him. --J3Mrs (talk) 17:55, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Have you seen what he's up to now?--J3Mrs (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

All he needs is a reliable source, but its to much trouble for him.--HLE (talk) 21:29, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

And the rest, look at his contributions. Bolton is a GA, it's trivia, shouldn't be there.--J3Mrs (talk) 21:31, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Having thought about it, I have to agree with you, it is trivia. The queen does not have a car registration number on the cars she drives in, but we don't see it mentioned on her page. So the same reason with the mayor's car registration number, it does not belong in the Bolton page. It could be placed on the List of Mayors of Bolton page if to be mentioned at all.--HLE (talk) 21:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

He's doing it because he's miffed. He's visited a page I created and arbitrarily cut bits out, it's vandalism really.--J3Mrs (talk) 21:53, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

He's being childish.--HLE (talk) 21:57, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks like he's gone off in a strop. I expect he'll be back soon in some form or other.--J3Mrs (talk) 22:38, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Tidied Up

Hi thanks for your advice re tidying up read the policy doc you pointed out and have worked to that rather than archives, so much irrevevant info in the archives it was getting hard to read. have created a user bits and bobs page. Am keeping the two sandbox articles, I think thats what you call them as I also edit outside wikipedia. I have also edited down the discussion page on the Rivington article to the most recent and relevant topics - hope I did the right thing. I was not happy to see the comment stating I was engaging in an edit war with J3Mrs, I had simply been editing in good faith and correcting errors. Must that comment stand on that page? It feels like a personal attack and follows another one when he said I was playing silly games - although I had only made a minor edit to clarify a point already there. I know neither he nor I agree on certain points. Your advice would be appreciated. I am hoping that situation cools off. I am tired of it and feel that any edit I make resulted in personally degrading comments, I do my best and depend on collaboration in the articles as any other --PL.-Snr (talk) 04:09, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Little Bolton

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:05, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Great Bolton

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:05, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Help!

Sorry about that! By the way I like the DYK, very clever getting both in, pity I was away. Can you help with a little problem? I have written a bit about Turton Tower and I usually create a new article from a redlink but Turton Tower seems to be a redirect and I am completely flummoxed!!! Any advice would be very gratefully received.--J3Mrs (talk) 15:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry about that earlier. Forgive and forget. Someone else kindly put forward the DYK for Little Bolton and Great Bolton and gave me the credit for it. Nice of them. It may be an idea to change the Turton Tower redirect to an article page. Smithills Hall and Hall i' th' Wood are articles in their own right, even Rivington Hall. A paragraph or two could be mentioned in the Turton Urban District page, leaving the more in depth information in the Turton Tower article. It may be an idea to request the Turton Tower redirect to be deleted, see Template:Db-g6, thereby creating from scratch and receiving the full credit as page creator. --HLE (talk) 16:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much, I hadn't done that before.--J3Mrs (talk) 17:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Pierrepoint

Hello! I noticed that you were editing the page on Thomas Pierrepoint, which is cool. I'm currently working on the Pierrepoint pages as part of a research project, so its good to have some help! If I might ask, what got you interested in editing this page? And since this is the first time I've properly made changes to a page like this, do you think its looking okay so far? ThurgoodM1 (talk) 10:51, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I'm interested about my own local area (Lancashire and Greater Manchester), capital punishment articles, which includes the Pierrepoint family, plus other things that strike my fancy. I like your changes so far, although from time to time I do make my own changes, but always make brief explanations of any edits in the summary box. I particularly like the image of Thomas and his nephew Albert you uploaded. Keep up with the good work. HLE (talk) 14:16, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Turton Urban District

Hi

You may find it helpful to look at WP:BOLDTITLE. This is an article about the urban district, not about Turton, and the lead sentence should start with the article title (in bold). It is also important that the lead states concisely what, when and where Turton Urban District was. The urban district was formed in 1894, and material about previous local government bodies in the area really belongs in the Turton article.--Mhockey (talk) 15:29, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi. How about about this as an idea for the lead paragraph, I got the idea for that from County Borough of Leeds:

Turton Urban District, and its predecessor, the Turton Local Board of Health, was a local government district centred on the historical area of Turton in the administrative county of Lancashire, England. A local board of health had been established for the Turton area in 1873, and was reconstituted as an urban district in 1895. Following abolition of the local authority in 1974, the Turton area is now divided between Lancashire and Greater Manchester.

With that suggested lead paragraph it shows one local authority had progressed from another. If you look at this webpage Turton 1873-1974, it lists all the chairmen of the local board and of the urban district, which again it shows Turton's status had changed from one to another. Incidentally, the urban district's status began 1895, not 1894. I feel the local board and the urban district belong together in the article. HLE (talk) 18:06, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Three minor points. 1. The VCH and the Vision of Britain website (and Urban districts formed in England and Wales 1894–95) say that the UD was formed in 1894. Do you have a reliable source to say that the VCH etc is wrong? 2. As I understand it, the predecessor local government district was actually Turton Urban Sanitary District. The local board was the predecessor to the Urban District Council. 3. Unless you want to set up a redirect (which seems unnecessary), I do not think Turton Local Board of Health or Turton Urban Sanitary District needs to be in bold. Subject to those points, your lead para looks good to me.--Mhockey (talk) 19:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

In answer to your three minor points. (1) I don't dispute the VCH and VOB website that the UD wasn't formed by the Local Government Act 1894. The point I'm trying to get across is there is a continuation of one type of local government authority into another. The Municipal Borough of Sale for an example (which incidentally, I haven't made any edits to that page whatsoever). (2) Yes, Turton did have USD status, but the title of the district and board did not change. (3) I'm quite happy for "and its predecessor, the Turton Local Board of Health" to be removed from the suggested paragraph, leaving the rest as it is. The lead paragraph serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important content. I hope we can come to a consensus with the trimmed suggested paragraph. Regards HLE (talk) 09:00, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted

Hi HLE, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:20, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Outwood, Greater Manchester

Please see Category:Former civil parishes in England, they are only "categorised by the county in which the area of the former parish is now located, rather than the county in which the parish was located when it functioned". Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Diocese of Ross

What prompted the move please? While it disambiguates from the Scottish diocese, the new name does not help in disambiguating the Catholic from the Anglican diocese which were territoriality co-terminus for a while. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:51, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

As you said the Catholic and Anglican dioceses were territoriality co-terminus for a while. Each post-Reformation dioceses claim continuity with the pre-Reformation diocese. So just like there is no denomination prefix for the Bishop of Ross (Ireland) article, so too there shouldn't be any prefix for the Diocese of Ross (Ireland) article. Also at the bottom of the article there are categories for both the Catholic Church and Church of Ireland. To name the article Roman Catholic Diocese of Ross would be misleading and for that reason I moved it back to its original name. HLE (talk) 12:23, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Doesn't that give undue weight to the Anglian position? After all, there was only one Anglican bishop - William Lyon (bishop) - who was the ordinary for just over a year before the diocese was merged in the CoI. For every other part of its history, the diocese was Catholic. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:17, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm not debating any further. If you want to move the article back, fine. When or if its moved, I'll change the Diocese of Ross (Ireland) redirect to either a disambiguation page, such as Diocese of Cloyne, or maybe create a basic general article, such as Diocese of Cork. HLE (talk) 17:25, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Horwich & Blackrod First Independents

Hi,

I corrected the above page which had incorrect information but you have reversed the edit.

Horwich & Blackrod First has no Town Councillors on Blackrod Town Council. Not only that but Blackrod Town council doesn’t even have 6 independent councillors.

The figures are

11 councillors on Horwich Council 2 Ward Councillors 1 Horwich NE & 1 Horwich & Blackrod

A complaint has been made to HBFI by Blackrod council regarding this error — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:A623:6600:596F:A1F8:678E:9F8E (talk) 07:56, 30 January 2020 (UTC)