Guy5656

It looks like we are reerting each others edits to this article. Please visit the "Discussion" page before reverting my edits so we can come to an agreement as to what belongs and what doesn't belong. My problems with the article is its non-encyclopedic writing with the use of unnecessary adulatory language, sources that do not verify the information cited, and repetitive entries. Wkharrisjr (talk) 14:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

We need to both agree to this, i agree . Why can't we talk on this message board .. instead of the discussion board.. Did you have this problem with when you went to the edit page everything got erased so you had to rewrite everything ? anyway thank you for connecting with me. What i want is to have alot of finformation on Halim on this page but with what you said to have it in Encyclopedic writing.. so i want to still say most of the things there but in encyclopedic writing and proper writing language. I just find the the article when you edit it has very little information on Halim.. So can we expand on it .. i like us talking and agreeing to something ..

I want to keep these statements in the section " Musical Career" But say it in better way

Many stadiums were sold out and completely packed with people when Halim performed there.

He would encourage many new young artists and actors to become very successful.

Though Halim never released an album in his life he was purely a live singer he was still extremely famous and loved by everyone. Halim was naturally very charismatic.[5] He also played an various types instruments including the Oboe, Drums, Piano, Oud, clarinet, Guitar and more. Halim was known for his deep passion when singing, and his highly unique and powerful voice, (earning the name, "the nightingale"). Halim did performances in almost every country in the Arab world and he had numerous concerts outside of the Arab World (Paris, London etc.), at a time where only few could become that big.

and of course keep what other statements you like in this section. Now how can we say these statements and the statements you want to save better.?

You need to be careful with statements like these. Without secondary sources, they come across as more like a fan page instead of an nuetral, encyclopedic article. I understand that Halim was very popular, but the purpose of an encyclopedia is to present facts and to avoid opinions (both positive and negative).

I found mnost of the sources cited in the article having nothing to do with the statement to which they are attached. Again, this makes the whole article come across more fawning and look amateurish. Avoid blogs and web pages- they usually are not held to research standards and their value are dubious. For instance, I could write a blog stating the Halim liked to drive red sports cars in the desert. Is that really a verifiable fact? No, so it shouldn't be used as a source. Now if a printed source or the web site of a reputable source made this statement, that would be a good reference.

I'm disappointed you have reverted all my editing without discussion of why you felt they needed reverting. I am especially disappointed that you removed the filmography table- I put a lot of effort into creating it in order to improve the article appearance and to make it easier to read.

I am asking you to revert back to my last edit and then address each change you think should be made. This is a lot more efficient and will result in a better article, which is what we both want. Wkharrisjr (talk) 19:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I actually liked the charts for the movies a lot. I liked your last edit but i just thought that it said to little in many parts. You are right about what we both want. So how about this you put what you edited in. Then i will come in and just add a bit to each section if i think its not enough summary for that section . What you can do is if you did not like how i wrote my statements that are added. You keep what i said but make it into a better writing way.

I got most of this information from books of Abdel Halim Hafez that were authorized. But i do not know how to put this in wikipedia because its from books i have at home. I also got it from people that knew him and were talking about him .. i do not know how to link that to wikipedia to make my statements about Halim that i add true .. Do you understand ..

I want to ask this question to you. I am not trying to be mean or anything but did you know Abdel Halim before you saw this article? Just curious..

So i do not want to fight with you in anyway. I just want to come up with something you and I agree on for the article. correct?

Glad to help someone starting out and sincerely trying to edit. A couple pointers- first of all, trying adding ":" before your comment when you are responding to another person's comment. Add another ":" for each level of response. The result is a sort of step down look which makes it easier to follow the conversation. And add four "~" after your comments; Wikipedia will add your name.

A good rule of thumb for editing an article is to be able to back up each statement with a source for that statement. Opinions or unproven statements should be avoided in a scholarly article. Any sources you use to support a statement should be theoretically available for someone to verify. Most people rely on internet sources as these are easy to access, but in reality they should be used with caution because, as I noted above, they are often not verified by an independent editor. For example, i have come across references in Wikipedia articles that refer to web sites which were nothing more than a cut and paste of the original Wikipedia article! Books are a great source, and web pages from major news organization are also good sources. Google Books has a lot of books that you can use for reference and are easily retrievable by both the editor and the reader. You might want to read Wikipedia:Citing sources as a primer on sources.

I have Wikipedia:Citation templates in my book marks; these templates cover most of the citations one would need. You can practice at the sandbox or on personal page if you want to get a feel on how these templates work.

If you are really adventerous, you could try downloading a web browser ad on that will do a lot of the referencing for you. I use Webcite.

My interest in Halim is strictly academic. I stumbled across the article and saw that it needed editing to bring up to good standards. While it might be gratifying for fans to express their feelings and appreciation for a performer, a poorly written article comes across, rightly or wrongly, as implying the subject is really not an important person. For example, look at the well-done articles for such entertainers as Elvis Presley or Frank Sinatra and compare these to the articles for The Caulfields or Meek Mill (rapper). If you were not familiar with any of these artists, the professionalism of the article gives the reader an impression of the subjects importance.

Hope this helps some. I'm going to revert my edits and let's see if we can work together to improve the article. Wkharrisjr (talk) 19:14, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I actually like what you edited and thank you so much. In the death section i want to add some information on the amount of people i the funeral and how people dealt with his death. I do also feel that on the start of the page where you said " Abdel Halim Hafez was a popular singer and performer". Could we say "Abdel Halim Hafez is (one or among) of the most famous singers and performers in Egypt and the Arab world "

Sure, just make sure you have a credible source to cite the statements about amount the funeral and people's reactions.Wkharrisjr (talk) 16:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I found this website that has a big load of information on Halim. But what i did it i copied and paste the information on a personal writing pad just to save the information .. But i cannot find the website.. Is there anything at all i can do ?

Also do you want to see other Arab singers websites that needs editing .. because i liked your editing for Abdel Halim article. Maybe you can help other Arab singer's articles? if you want ?

Try a Google search using phrases from what you cut and pasted- you will probably find the website that way.

Feel free to point to other web sites that you think could use editing. I'll try my hand at editing them when I have the time.Wkharrisjr (talk) 20:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I want to thank you so much for everything you did. I have the first Arabic singer that i think its Wikipedia needs to be edited. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oum_Kalthoum .. You do not have to do it of course.. if you want .. Thanks ..I admire her but i think theirs just too much false things and too much things about her in her Wikipedia.

Hafez

I assume English is not your primary language? I say this because many of your edits (and reverts of my edits) are stilted. I tried to edit them to sound better, but I see many of themm have been changed back. I also notice that you are not using standard Wikipedia citation methods- at least surround your citations with the tags so they links will appear in the reference and not an external link, which is considered poor Wikipedia practice. Furthermore, sources like FindAGrave.com and blogs are not really good sources as these are not peer reviewed and tend to be non-objective. Please consider reading over Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources for a discussion of good sources and Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners if you want this article to be taken more seriously. I've tried to help, but I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall. Wkharrisjr (talk) 18:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

You are right about English not being my primary language. Listen i know these websites are blogs, but i know some of the information they say and i put on Wikipedia from them are real. But because they came from books or people that knew him talk about it in interviews i cannot prove that on Wikipedia. I thank you for the help. But you do not have to. I will try to get better sources but may you please not take any information out of the article and if you want maybe just make them sound better or you can just leave it alone. I will try my best to make it more better Thanks.. I say non of this in a mean, mad or rude gesture at all.

Also i will take what you said and try to help the article get better by it. Thank you for the information.

I hope i have not disturbed you. If i have i am sorry. Thank you.