Gjiroux

Notability of Gordon Jiroux

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Universal Helicopters

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. I note that you recently tried to take this article about Universal Helicopters of Newfoundland and Labrador and turn it into a spam piece about a completely different company, Universal Helicopters Inc of Scottsdale, Arizona, of which you are the president. You can note that your changes have been reverted. It may be that Universal Helicopters Inc of Scottsdale, Arizona is worth having a Wikipedia article about, but this would be a new article and not one replacing an existing article. Also persons connected with the company, such as yourself, should not start or edit the article, as you would be in a conflict of interest as explained at WP:COI. Please note too that if an article is started on your company that it will be edited by hundreds of people and may not end up the way you edited the existing article as a self-promotion piece. Many companies find that in an attempt to provide balanced coverage that a large amount of carefully sourced criticism forms part of the article. In the helicopter industry a good example of this evolution of an article about a company is Silver State Helicopters. If you have any questions you can drop me a note or reply here. - Ahunt (talk) 14:17, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Negative, I am not the owner of Universal Helicopters, I am a relative, but I am in no way associated with the business, and therefore it's not a conflict of interest Gjiroux (talk) 18:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

January 2009

Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Universal Helicopters, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Ahunt (talk) 18:00, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I am not the owner of Universal Helicopters

Ahunt (talk) has it all wrong.

I am not the owner of Universal Helicopters, I am his son. I am not an employee, and am in no way associated with the business, and therefore it's not a conflict of interest.
Universal Helicopters is not Universal Helicopters of Scottsdale as you have suggested, it is a flight school that spans multiple states and has a presence and is affiliated with multiple colleges.
With hundreds of students coming from around the world to seek training at UHI it is certainly worthy of the [[Universal Helicopters] placement on Wikipedia

Gjiroux (talk) 18:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your note. If you are the son of the owner of the company you are still in a conflict of interest. Please Wikipedia:COI#What_is_a_conflict_of_interest.3F which specifically says: "Adding material that appears to promote the interests or visibility of an article's author, its author's family members, employer, associates, or their business or personal interests, places the author in a conflict of interest." As a family member you are clearly in a conflict of interest.

Also deleting content of an existing article to replace it with your own content on a different company is vandalism. Please stop doing this.

As I mentioned is is possible that a new and separate article on the Universal Helicopters of the USA that your father owns, but there would need to be proper third party references to establish its notability and the article would have to be started and edited by editors who are not in a conflict of interest. - Ahunt (talk) 18:36, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Features in Rotor and Wing Magazine would do nicely as a third-party I would think.— Preceding unsigned comment added by User:Gjiroux (talk • contribs)

Thanks for your note again. Your said: "With hundreds of students coming from around the world to seek training at UHI it is certainly worthy of the Universal Helicopters placement on Wikipedia." Articles do not appear on Wikipedia based on the number of students a school attracts, it is based on WP:Notability. The current company in that article has that article title. If someone else starts an article on your father's company it would be given a different title, such as Universal Helicopters (USA) or similar and both articles would have notes on them disambiguating the two companies. But I would caution you not to write that article, as it will be quickly deleted as spam - Ahunt (talk) 18:42, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

The man at one point owned what was widely known as the largest helicopter flight school in the world... how much more noteable does it have to be?Gjiroux (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

It may very well meet WP:Notability but neither you, nor any other relatives, or employees of the company are the ones to write that article and, as mentioned it would not replace an existing article, but will have a new title.

Spamming and vandalizing existing articles in Wikipedia is not an effective way to promote your father's company. - Ahunt (talk) 18:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

By the same standard you are trying to employ here, shouldn't the current Universal Helicopters be "Universal Helicopters, Newfoundland (Or Canada)"?

That article was started in 2005 and the editor at the time chose that title for it, so it remains in that space unless there is consensus to move it to a new title. If another article were written on the USA-based company then the common way of dealing with two companies with the same name would be that both companies would have different named articles, such as "Universal Helicopters Newfoundland and Labrador" and "Universal Helicopters USA" and the current space at "Universal Helicopters" would be a disambiguation page like this one to give readers the choice of which company they intended to read about. If there are other companies with the name "Universal Helicopters" in Thailand or Dubai, etc, then they could also be listed on the disambiguation page, too. Until there is a second article written though there is no point in moving the first article. - Ahunt (talk) 19:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Understood, sorry for this problem I will cease my editting of Universal Helicopters. My intention was not a promotional piece so much as an effort to pay homage to the company and the man the FAA chose to make the youngest pilot examiner at the time (1982) he was 24 or 25 years old. Though I admit the text was a bit spammy, It was my first wikipedia post ever and I did it at 4 in the morning thith text that I copied from thier website and planned on editing the post, but passed out before doing it. I'm sure someone else will write a post on the company some day.Gjiroux (talk) 19:38, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

That is actually a funny story! Look let's make a deal here, okay? You would like to get an article on the company done, but you are in a COI. You need someone else to write it or else it will get deleted within minutes of being posted. I am certain that the company meets the Wikipedia notability requirements and I am willing to take it on and start the article and get to to the point where it at least shouldn't get deleted. If that works for you then we need to agree on two things:

• a name to the article other than "Universal Helicopters", because as discussed I will move the existing article somewhere else and turn that page into a disambiguation page instead. We can't use "Universal Helicopters Inc" because the guidelines says that suffixes like "Inc", "GmBH" etc shouldn't be used in the title. I would suggest "Universal Helicopters USA". The disambiguation page will ensure anyone looking for it will find it. I'll do some redirects as well to help that out.
• More than anything I need some references about the company. I can use the company website, but I really need articles elsewhere, like in R&W. If you can cite an article or two from there, other paper publications or websites, that would help immensely. I need, publication name, author, date page, publisher or for websites, just a link.

Once the article is posted then you shouldn't edit it as per WP:COI, but you can leave changes you want to see on the associated article talk page, which I will be watching and I will make the changes. That way all the rules are complied with and the article will stand a good chance of staying up there. I'll start with the text that you already used and re-write it in a NPOV style and wikify it etc.

How is that? - Ahunt (talk) 20:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Warning

Please stop. If you continue to blank out or delete portions of page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia, as you did to Universal Helicopters, you will be blocked from editing. Ahunt (talk) 18:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)