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The Signpost: 29 April 2013

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 08:17, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and have some pierogi!

	Pierogi Award
	Thanks for your support of my RfA. It didn't succeed this time, but that's no reason not to have some nice pierogi. Cheers, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:24, 3 May 2013 (UTC)|}

Focus on...

I had not paid much attention to Newsletters, but after your message I thought it may be a good idea to use it to inform the people in the project about articles and topics that have reached reasonable quality standards and they may not be aware of it. I will prepare a set of "Focus on..." items that can run in the next 12 months.

Given that you referred to the Jesus page, if you take a look at the talk page (and archives) there, the issue of the historicity of Jesus has been of interest and after a long year of work I have recently finished the clean up of all of them. So the 4 of them can run as "Focus on: The Historical Jesus". Then there are a set of articles on Christ. These are in pretty good shape, but as they say many people who walk into Churches, are so busy with things that they forget Christ. So that would be a good topic. There are also a set of nice articles on The life of Jesus and Jesus in Art. So the way the "Focus on section can look is: "

• Focus on The Historical Jesus: Historicity of Jesus, Historical Jesus, Quest for the historical Jesus and Josephus and Tacitus (two articles in one]

• Focus on Christ: Christ, Love of Christ, Knowledge of Christ, Imitation of Christ

• Focus on The Life of Jesus: Chronology of Jesus, Life of Jesus in the New Testament, Ministry of Jesus, New Testament places associated with Jesus

• Focus on Jesus in Christian art: Nativity of Jesus in art, Transfiguration of Jesus in Christian art, Resurrection of Jesus in Christian art, Last Supper in Christian art

• Focus on Miracles of Jesus: Miracles of Jesus + 3 other key articles

• Focus on Parables of Jesus: Parables of Jesus + 3 other key articles

That makes 24 items that can run from May 2013 to May 2015 and will give the project members an overview of "Jesus related" issues, and reminds them of the center of Christianity. I say that because I see so much discussion on obscure issues about peripheral items, so I think "bringing Jesus back" to the center of the newsletter would be a good idea. I will make a sub-directory in my user space and get these together if you want to use them in the next 24 months. It will take me a week or so to finish them all. History2007 (talk) 13:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

• This sounds like an excellent idea - if you could do this I would be delighted to add a section, perhaps in the place of the Spotlight, which seems to fulfil part of the same function, and seems to be just the thing that Ichthus should focus on ... Many thanks, I look forward to this with some anticipation.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 17:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I will get it together, and we can start from the June 2013 issue, because I just noticed the one above is for May. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 18:04, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I am close to finishing it, and ended up with 15 months worth of Focus items in 3 groups, and a book review to go with it. Should be done in less than a day. Now, where is the Ichthys/Ichthus homepage? Are the old copies kept somewhere? Seems strange not to have a page for it and nowhere to keep the old copies. There is so much old talk in Wikipedia getting archived, might as well have a sub-page for it in the Christianity project with the old issues archived. And why did they call it Ichthus rather than Ichthys I wonder... History2007 (talk) 19:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

About the name, you'lld have to ask John Carter about that. The Ichthus is composed issue-by-issue in subpages of Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach, if you wish to put the focus somewhere it might be convenient to continue that convention. The newsletter does not have a homepage per se, but submissions are handled through the talk page of the page I linked.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 19:17, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

No worries about the name, it is there now. I guess John just selected that. And I did find the home page, but the whole thing seems less than organized. I think it should take all of 10 minutes to make its own home page, with a clear set of links to the archives, and a nice little logo on the main Christianity page. That way people will pay attention. And it seems that many project members are not subscribing. I did a spot check and many subscribers are either like some Chicago registered voters or like this. Anyway, I have the material here, and I wrote your intro for it if you feel like using it. The sections with "... Month" are complete. I would like to just hand the page to you if you make a sub-directory for it somewhere in your user space and then you can use it in the next 15 months. It will have to be done that way because this was a one time effort after I saw how upbeat Sir Ian was about getting it. But I will not be that active on Wikipedia after a month or two so I will have to leave it in the hands of you guys who may not remember, and certainly have never used one of these. Anyway, I will finish it soon. In the meantime perhaps you can talk to John and get it an icon on the project page, a nice homepage and archives and then do what John 10:14 suggests and get to know the project members who do not receive it (perhaps because they think it is boring) and clean up the dead people on the mailing list - I can help you with that. Then when the new format comes out in June (and a new name may be a reason to tell people about it) can try to talk the project members to getting a free trial subscription at no charge... I will try to think of some promo method and we will see what happens. History2007 (talk) 19:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

By the way, given that the focus on and Jesus' picture is used, let us put him on the top right, in the first class compartment, not towards the end. That is the least we can do. Anyway, I found the June 2013 subpage and added there. I will also touch up the others, as you suggested now that I know where they are. It is easier that way. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 20:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I moved the page to a sub-page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach. You have done a lot of work on this, and I will not forget. If you like I will substitute the letter from the editor this month for your piece, it looks very good and I'm sure your series will push the newsletter onwards and upwards. My priority this month for Ichthus will be the re-vamp of the page and cleaning up the subscription list.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 21:27, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, so take a look at the June issue now. I added a quill to the editor item to give it life, and a bookshelf to keep it alive. I will also look through the subscription list and remove the dead people, etc.

I made a small Icthus icon just by capturing the newsletter header as a JPG and that can fit on the project page, or whenever you leave people messages. In marketing logos go a long way in establishing a brand; and this was a nice logo from the start.

I will also give you a few promo ideas before I stop. E.g. there is no restriction on putting an announcement at the beginning of each month on the noticeboard with a link to the current issue. The key is to make the newsletter less boring and you can probably talk a few users to do an Op-ed piece every 6 months, say Mike Sorensen who has been around for long and is very knowledgeable in general, etc. That will generate some interest. I have not seen anyone take part in these contests really, so that may go on the back burner and the six users who write every six months may fill that gap, etc. And there can be a "meet and greet" section every month after a few months, where a project member/editor just introduces themselves, say what they hope to do in the next 6 months, and what they would like to see happen in the project, and Wikipedia, etc. That will add a human element to it, instead of list of GA articles last month.

To get new members, it will be easy to use a little bit of humor and offer them a 3 month "money back guarantee" if they don't like it, or something funny like that... It usually works. History2007 (talk) 00:21, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, I have now moved out the completed sections from the Outreach/i24 page to the relevant sub-directories. But I have to stop for a few days because if you look on the Historicity of Jesus talk page I had promised to build a FAQ page for that. So I will do a couple of FAQ pages that really need to be built before I go away, then come back and touch up the rest of these. Should not take long and certainly by May 15 they will all be cleaned up. I think we should perhaps ask Sir Ian if he wants to be the first "meet and greet" person. I think the "membership statistics" section every month is the most boring thing ever, so adding a personal element to the newsletter instead of a NIST-type report that will make things more interesting. Also to make things interesting, and as filler when there is less content in a month, you can have your own "Ichthus-DYK". So at the end of Outreach/i24 page I added a few DYK items. Pretty easy to find them in fact and many people may not know about them. But it does not need to be a contest, and you can come up with more, of course, and just use them as appropriate whenever you are running short on content. History2007 (talk) 02:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh ok that seems a good idea just to remind me which month they are for and order, etc. I really appreciate the help you have being giving me with the Ichthus.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 17:05, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. And no worries at all, I enjoyed doing it once it started and I think it is really important for the newsletter (any newsletter in fact) to be interesting to keep the project members engaged. Anyway, as it happens, there are 15 of these "did you know" items now and I had not even thought of where to place them yet. Now that you think it is a good idea, I will think of that and move them out to the 15 months as appropriate. Eventually that "i24 page" will be empty, and signals the completion of the activity. History2007 (talk) 18:27, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi

Thanks for the help. I will be glad to receive it. I am in a low computer with low conection, so I will talk to you tomorrow. Best wishes and thank you-- Miss Bono (zootalk) 22:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Can you explain what you offered me the other day?? I am studying for college exams and that's the reason I didin't reply earlier. Please, rely at my talk page. What's what you need to deliver the Newsletter?;) Thanks!  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:52, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I will work on it Miss Bono (zootalk) 13:06, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Ichthus

Hi, I have now finished everything. I moved the i24 page here so you can use it as a temp area later.

There are 15 newsletter issue directries now, June 2013 - August 2014 and they each have a "Focus on..." section, a book review and a DYK section. I have checked these, and used the Template:clear instead of the blank spaces used before to make sure they will fit right.

In the June issue the Ichthus at the end of the page links here which is now just an empty page and you can just build it with content. If you don't get to do the page, you just need to disable that link.

By May 15-18 or so we should talk about some promo message somewhere to get attention from project members etc. The only time to do it is when the new format is announced, else there is no reason for the promo message. So let us talk about that in the next 10 days. I think you could just bot-leave a message for all project members who do not get it to tell them of the new format and suggest that they read it.

I will still be around part of June, but not after that. Cheers. History2007 (talk) 16:28, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thank you very much. I shall have a think about possible promo ideas.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 16:35, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, fine. The promo needs to be straightforward, but should also promote the striking black and gold logo. That color combination was a good decision, whoever made it - may be John or Lionel... There is a lot to be gained by promoting logos in general, and in this case the logo has a great symbol on it. And by the way, the Jesus page just passed the GA. I will ask someone to see if they can help me with a GA on the Christ page too. Then both pages will be ok. History2007 (talk) 16:40, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Gilderien. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Bangladesh Games‎.
Message added 15:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Zayeem ^(talk) 15:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Articles Elizabeth Stratford

Regarding the article Elizabeth Stratford she is referenced in Nicholas M Plumley's book The Organ of Arundel Cathedral and has been written about in the West Sussex Gazette, Littlehampton Gazette, Church Times (national press) and Telegraph and Argus. These may not be able to be found online. The BBC Songs of Praise programme focusing on the town of Arundel featured her (following research) and her appointment at Arundel and she is clearly documentable since she was the first woman to hold the senior music post in an English Cathedral, preceding Katherine Dienes and Sarah Baldock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cliel7 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

You appear to be using multiple accounts. Please stick to one. If you are not, ignore this notice. The telegraph is online, and I have had a look, and cannot find any sources, as I mentioned in the AfD. If you can find such sources, please add them to the article. In addition, I had a browse through the Church Times archive, and cannot find any mention of her, this was also the case for the West Sussex Gazette. I also couldn't find any mention in Highbeam Research apart from in a list as a post-graduate student.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 15:02, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Re article for deletion Elizabeth Stratford there are references from bbc1, discography etc and she was first woman in senior music post in UK-see Choir and Organ magazine, church times, numerous newspaper articles. Why the delete? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cliel7 (talk •contribs) 23:45, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

I have had a look for those sources and cannot find them. On Wikipedia, we have a series of standards (WP:N, WP:GNG etc.) to determine whether we should have an article, and although I have tried, I cannot find evidence that the subject of the article meet s those standards.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 23:51, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

I can scan them!!!! I'm telling you she has been written about in the press. Not the telegraph-Telegraph and Argus I.e. local Bradford newspaper. Also Sussex Life magazine. It's hardly her fault if they aren't kept digitally is it?the BBC researched and interviewed her in a Songs of Praise programme which I believed aired in January 2011. The clip of her directing the Cathedral choir is on YouTube. Search drop drop slow tears Arundel Cathedral Choir. How can I scan the articles and get them online? She was the first to gain a senior music role just think she should have the credit for it that's all. Katherine Dienes and Sarah Baldock both have Wiki entries. Stratford did the groundwork! She came first. Cliel7 (talk) 01:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC) http://www.wdao.hampshire.org.uk/West_Sussex_Trip is another Cliel7 (talk) 01:18, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

WikiCup 2013 April newsletter

We are a week into Round 3, but it is off to a flying start, with Sven Manguard (submissions) claiming for the high-importance Portal:Sports and Portal:Geography (which are the first portals ever awarded bonus points in the WikiCup) and Cwmhiraeth (submissions) claiming for a did you know of sea, the highest scoring individual did you know article ever submitted for the WikiCup. Round 2 saw very impressive scores at close; first place Casliber (submissions) and second place Sturmvogel_66 (submissions) both scored over 1000 points; a feat not seen in Round 2 since 2010. This, in part, has been made possible by the change in the bonus points rules, but is also testament to the quality of the competition this year. Pool C and Pool G were most competitive, with three quarters of participants making it to Round 3, while Pool D was the least, with only the top two scorers making it through. The lowest qualifying score was 123, significantly higher than last year's 65, 2011's 41 or even 2010's 100.

The next issue of The Signpost is due to include a brief update on the current WikiCup, comparing it to previous years' competitions. This may be of interest to current WikiCup followers, and may help bring some more new faces into the community. We would also like to note that this round includes an extra competitor to the 32 advertised, who has been added to a random pool. This extra inclusion seems to have been the fairest way to deal with a small mistake made before the beginning of this round, but should not affect the competition in a large way. If you have any questions or concerns about this, please feel free to contact one of the judges.

A rules clarification: content promoted between rounds can be claimed in the round after the break, but not the round before. The case in point is content promoted on 29/30 April, which may be claimed in this round. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 16:09, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

How does Article Elizabeth Stratford fail on notability and bio? She has been discussed in articles by local and national press, on bbc1 television programmes and in a book published by Positif Press. All of these have been written independently. She is the first woman to hold the senior cathedral music post in this country yet Katherine Dienes and Sarah Baldock who have similar careers have not had their pages deleted or failed criteria under notability or biography yet Stratford came first. Cliel7 (talk) 01:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)Salicus

DYK for Mahee Castle

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Wildlife of Mongolia

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 03:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Caracas Cathedral may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 21:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks man

Thank you for the personal comment. The article is a spin-out from a section in a larger article, which is being trimmed (and then this one can be expanded). Not really crazy about spin outs, but had to do it because of length and then some decent content. I will make the attribution clear with a comment in child article (is clear on the parent article). Thanks again, for the personal engagement.TCO (talk) 12:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Monkeys on the Roof

why you trying to hide? too scared to admit you were wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mon6891 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I replied on your talk page.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 00:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ichthus June 2013

Hi, the June 2013 issue is ready to go now. I checked the DYKs and there were a few, so I added them. There were no new project members, so no point in telling people about that. I looked up the calendar from last year and so it is all done.

It would be great of we could put it out at the end of the week, because I may not be here next week, in case there are questions on the articles liked to there, etc.

I have started a simple and straightforward promo for it that could go to the Wikiproject Christianity list, so they are aware of the fact that you are editing it now, there is a new format, etc.

---

Hello, I am Gilderien the current editor of Ichthus, the Christianity project newsletter. From June 2013 we are starting a new "in focus" section that tells our readers about an interesting and important groups of articles. The first set is about Jesus, of course. We have also started a new book review section and our own "did you know" section. In the near future I hope to start a section where a user briefly discusses their interests. Please take a look at the June 2013 issue. If you are not a current subscriber, please just add your name to the list here to receive it. Subscription is free, and the content can be interesting. Gilderien

---

Let us talk about in the net few days and if you think there are no issues, you can just use the bot to tell the Wikiproject crowd about it, and at the same time separaely deliver it to the current subscribers. Then my involvement will be over after that. Cheers History2007 (talk) 12:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thank you very much. I cannot see any issues with the issue, but I'll update it before it is published. Normally the June issue would be published some time around the end of May, as the previous issue covers up until May 31, but would you rather it was brought forward 2 weeks?--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 13:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Christianity newsletter: New format, new focus

Hello,

I notice that you aren't currently subscribed to Ichthus, the WikiProject Christianity newsletter. With a new format, we would be delighted to offer you a trial three-month, money-back guarantee, subscription to our newsletter. If you are interested then please add your name to this list, and you will receive your first issue shortly. From June 2013 we are starting a new "in focus" section that tells our readers about an interesting and important groups of articles. The first set is about Jesus, of course. We have also started a new book review section and our own "did you know" section. In the near future I hope to start a section where a user briefly discusses their interests.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds

---

Your promo looks much better. I would suggest sending out he invitations on May 17, then the actual item on May 30 or so, and they get it on their talk page that way. And the old issue can be linked in the archives anyway. I would really appreciate that, because I will not be here after next week. Which means that it needs to be no one's brainchild. I can not take credit for it, I hope you understand. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 13:07, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'll edit it before I send it out, I appreciate your modesty, but are you sure you don't want me to mention you? You have done a lot of work for the newsletter, much more than I or the previous editors have done.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 13:18, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am sure, and given that I will be going away soon, it will not be encouraging to people. But if you can send it out on Friday as a favor to me, will be appreciated, so I can look at it and respond to things on article talk pages if needed. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 14:44, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Hmm ok that shouldn't be a problem.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 14:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. If you want more responses, leave a little more in the promo, e.g. "take a look at our new format", etc. and that will generate some curiosity, so they will click on it. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 16:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I just noticed there was no link in the promo, so they will not know what it looks like. I added the link to June, without having to change the May, so May will be up, and June can be previewed. How is that? History2007 (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good, by the end of the week the June issue will essentially be finished with only promoted content left to add.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 19:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Great. I really appreciate your help and flexibility in this. And I do wish you the best with the newsletter. My time is up here after 75k edits over 6 years, so I really wanted to do something nice for the project before I left for good next week. Thanks again. History2007 (talk) 19:18, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. May I ask why you are leaving?--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 19:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I have finished most of my content work. As you saw the Jesus article got the GA mark now, and is a long way from the disaster that it was back in Feb 2011 when I started the clean it up. Now there are a few energetic bright eyed editors who are looking after it. Look at Josephus on Jesus and Tacitus on Christ etc. and the talk pages, you will see the battles that took place, the editors that were indeffed, then came back as puppets, etc. but those articles are in good shape now. All I will be doing now will be arguing as I did on ANI last week. Just look at my edit history in the past 4 days and you will see the ANI games. So it will be more of that and no major new content anyway. And there is a minor inconvenience called "life". So a year ago in June I gave myself a year to finish, said good bye to a number of people, and now time is up. But as I said, unlike myself I am sure you have never used one of these, so it is people like you who need to keep going now. And I do wish you the best. History2007 (talk) 19:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

And by the way, I am glad you left me the message about the newsletter, for I had never paid it any attention. But I hope in the next year it will remind people of the "central figure of Christianity" for I have for long been bothered that the entire project had ignored him and was focusing on denominational differences, among other trivia. So a message left here or there can hopefully get results. And if you manage to keep an eye on the pages Jesus, Christ, etc. that will be great for an occasional opinion here and there will also go a very long way, now that so few people watch pages. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 20:16, 13 May 2013 (UTC)