--Figgleeeeeo 11:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)Your new article Philippa baryan sounds like nonsense. No such Google hits for her, neither Rick Baryan who is supposed to be someone famous. Adding nonsense to the Wikipedia is not on. Dysprosia 06:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I know they are real, because I am in their family, I am Amber Baryan. My husband Rick Baryan is a television presenter but has not yet got his first job, which might explain the lack of websites. As for my daughter, we prefer to keep personal information off the web. --Figgleeeeeo 06:06, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- I think what Dysprosia means to say is that your family is not (in)famous enough to warrant a Wikipedia entry. No offense is intended.--inks 06:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- So if they don't even come up on Google, why should they be entered in something that intends to be an encyclopedia? When Rick Baryan becomes famous, then we might have an article for him - but only then and not before. Dysprosia 06:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- I have to say, I do find that a little bit offensive. Who are you to say we do not belong on this encyclopaedia, if we are willing to make and update our own entries? My daughter will be very famous someday. Not everything can be found on Google. --Figgleeeeeo 06:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- By the way, could you please let us know what publisher has published Philippa's book and will be publishing the upcoming one? Zoe 06:14, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Ginninderra Press. I don't see why I am having to defend myself here. --Figgleeeeeo 06:15, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Can you cite any online sources at all? It's certainly plausible since I was reading newspapers at a very early age as well...but if this can't be verified, it's probably going to get voted off. - Lucky 6.9 06:11, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- "Child Progidy Publishes Book", ABC News Online, 23 April 2005. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s14454442.htm --Figgleeeeeo 06:15, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- I hope it doesn't sound that I personally am saying that you do not belong on this encyclopedia; it is general consensus of the project that people who are not notable are not included in the encyclopedia (see for example Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies). For example, what if she does not become very famous? We do not have articles on every single person that enters Australian Idol, for instance, because not every single person that enters will win the competition. It is a similar principle we apply on Wikipedia. Dysprosia 06:15, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- But my children weren't on Australian Idol! You don't seem to understand, Philippa Baryan has published one book and has a second one on the way. --Figgleeeeeo 06:16, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Your ABC link doesn't work. Neither is Baryan mentioned on the http://www.ginninderrapress.com.au/ website. Dysprosia 06:17, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You're kidding. That's all I need. The article expires just when I want to show it to somebody. They only keep them for 3 months. --Figgleeeeeo 06:20, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
They don't put everything on that site, we specifically asked for Philippa to be removed because she's too young to have personal information available. Also she published the book under a pseudonym, Tara Undercliff. --Figgleeeeeo 06:21, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Tara Undercliff is not listed as an author under the Ginninderra Press list of current publications. If you have an ISSN it could be looked up.--inks 06:23, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- So I don't count, but people like Cayden Boyd are allowed to have articles? Is there some sort of bribery going on, do I have to contribute to your 21-day fund drive? --Figgleeeeeo 06:24, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Allegations of improper behaviour are rude, and are not going to help your cause.--inks 06:27, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- I was just wondering, after all, something about fundraising appears on every page I go to. I thought maybe there was some kind of special system here. Remember I am new. --Figgleeeeeo 06:32, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You're saying Kara & Shelby Hoffman, who have written no books, are in some way superior to Philippa Baryan? Who learnt to read first? --Figgleeeeeo 06:26, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You may want to look at Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. If you think that Cayden Boyd should not have an article, vote his article for deletion. We are asking you to provide some factual sources for your information. If there is none how can we verify your information? Dysprosia 06:29, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Would it help if I gave you my phone number? --Figgleeeeeo 06:30, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You didn't read the links I supplied above, did you? And Tara Undercliff gets zero Google hits as well, and her supposed book is also a no-show. Your phone number wouldn't help us to get information about this supposed book your supposed daughter wrote. Zoe 06:31, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Would it help if I gave you my phone number? --Figgleeeeeo 06:30, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- For goodness' sake, we're all REAL. If you phoned me, I would be able to confirm that. And I did read the links you provided, and I feel Philippa qualifies on all counts. --Figgleeeeeo 06:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- No. Why would it? Whether you're real or not is not the issue. Wikipedia works by using outside sources, see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view -- Wikipedia doesn't take a view on a subject, it describes others views of the subject. Wikipedia doesn't operate on the authority of its contributors.
- I find all those links extremely confusing. Please remember that English is not my first language. My husband was born in Hong Kong. --Figgleeeeeo 06:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Funny, the now-deleted Amber Baryan article said "Amber Michelle Baryan (née Walters) was born in Melbourne, Australia". Zoe 06:45, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Yes. Myself, Amber, was born in Melbourne, Australia, but English wasn't my first language (shock horror, there are immigrants in Melbourne!). I picked it up when I went to school. My husband was born in Hong Kong. Problem? Not racism as well, I hope. --Figgleeeeeo 06:55, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You'll have to explain how your husband (last name Baryan) born in Hong Kong means that you don't speak English as your native language, when you were born and raised in Australia and your maiden name is Walters. Has your husband's lack of English proficiency somehow become contagious? Zoe 07:17, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- I don't actually have to explain anything to you. Are you trying to catch me out? But I will. Let's go through it again. I was born in Melbourne to an immigrant mother and immigrant father. My father came from England (hence the Walters), so he spoke English, but my mother's English was minimal at best. Her first language was Italian, and my father communicated to her in that language, which he had learnt at university and on his travels in Italy (where he met my mother). I had my father's name, Walters, but he died before I remember, so I was brought up for a few years solely by my mother, who constantly spoke Italian to me. There is a large Italian community in Melbourne, and we lived with Italian neighbours, and it wasn't until I went to school that I started to learn English. I had a very helpful teacher who made the experience easier; the children of my neighbours also spoke English. My husband's name is Baryan and he was born in Hong Kong. I never said he was not proficient in English, just that he was born in Hong Kong. Is that enough family history for you, or are you still going to try and prove I don't know my own name? --Figgleeeeeo 11:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Let me see if I can get this clear. You were born in an English-language country over 40 years ago, and, although you didn't speak English until you went to school, you were taught in English, presumably all of your school years, and yet you claim that you don't understand English well enough to consider it your native language? What language do you speak with your Hong Kong-born husband and your Australia-born children? And how does your husband's having been born in Hong Kong have any bearing on your ability to understand English? Zoe 04:36, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I am considering this some sort of harassment. Of course I am extremely proficient in English, as you can tell, but I am still allowed to truthfully make the point that it is not my first language. I never said that my husband's birth place had any bearing on my ability to speak, read, understand or otherwise communicate in any language, nor his. I just made the point that he was born in Hong Kong. At home, we speak English, the odd bit of Italian and our own family language. Have I satisfied you enough, or would you like to submit me to a short test in Indonesian to see if I really was born in Australia? --Figgleeeeeo 06:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
- You said above, I find all those links extremely confusing. Please remember that English is not my first language. My husband was born in Hong Kong.. It was you who brought up your husband having been born in Hong Kong in relation to your inability to understand English. You claim you don't understand English well enough to understand the links that people are supplying to you. And yes, please, fill out the attached test in Indonesian in triplicate, please, with references. Zoe 06:09, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I never denied saying that. I am proficient in English; English is not my first language; I sometimes find links confusing; my husband was born in Hong Kong. --Figgleeeeeo 10:23, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
- You said above, I find all those links extremely confusing. Please remember that English is not my first language. My husband was born in Hong Kong.. It was you who brought up your husband having been born in Hong Kong in relation to your inability to understand English. You claim you don't understand English well enough to understand the links that people are supplying to you. And yes, please, fill out the attached test in Indonesian in triplicate, please, with references. Zoe 06:09, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I am considering this some sort of harassment. Of course I am extremely proficient in English, as you can tell, but I am still allowed to truthfully make the point that it is not my first language. I never said that my husband's birth place had any bearing on my ability to speak, read, understand or otherwise communicate in any language, nor his. I just made the point that he was born in Hong Kong. At home, we speak English, the odd bit of Italian and our own family language. Have I satisfied you enough, or would you like to submit me to a short test in Indonesian to see if I really was born in Australia? --Figgleeeeeo 06:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
- Let me see if I can get this clear. You were born in an English-language country over 40 years ago, and, although you didn't speak English until you went to school, you were taught in English, presumably all of your school years, and yet you claim that you don't understand English well enough to consider it your native language? What language do you speak with your Hong Kong-born husband and your Australia-born children? And how does your husband's having been born in Hong Kong have any bearing on your ability to understand English? Zoe 04:36, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I don't actually have to explain anything to you. Are you trying to catch me out? But I will. Let's go through it again. I was born in Melbourne to an immigrant mother and immigrant father. My father came from England (hence the Walters), so he spoke English, but my mother's English was minimal at best. Her first language was Italian, and my father communicated to her in that language, which he had learnt at university and on his travels in Italy (where he met my mother). I had my father's name, Walters, but he died before I remember, so I was brought up for a few years solely by my mother, who constantly spoke Italian to me. There is a large Italian community in Melbourne, and we lived with Italian neighbours, and it wasn't until I went to school that I started to learn English. I had a very helpful teacher who made the experience easier; the children of my neighbours also spoke English. My husband's name is Baryan and he was born in Hong Kong. I never said he was not proficient in English, just that he was born in Hong Kong. Is that enough family history for you, or are you still going to try and prove I don't know my own name? --Figgleeeeeo 11:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You'll have to explain how your husband (last name Baryan) born in Hong Kong means that you don't speak English as your native language, when you were born and raised in Australia and your maiden name is Walters. Has your husband's lack of English proficiency somehow become contagious? Zoe 07:17, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Yes. Myself, Amber, was born in Melbourne, Australia, but English wasn't my first language (shock horror, there are immigrants in Melbourne!). I picked it up when I went to school. My husband was born in Hong Kong. Problem? Not racism as well, I hope. --Figgleeeeeo 06:55, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- No. Why would it? Whether you're real or not is not the issue. Wikipedia works by using outside sources, see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view -- Wikipedia doesn't take a view on a subject, it describes others views of the subject. Wikipedia doesn't operate on the authority of its contributors.
- The issue about the ABC site is incorrect as well, I was able to look up an article about another child prodigy on the ABC site from 2003. Dysprosia 06:34, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Are you saying that child prodigy is smarter than Philippa? --Figgleeeeeo 06:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Show me the link to the other article! Proof! --Figgleeeeeo 06:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Are you saying that child prodigy is smarter than Philippa? --Figgleeeeeo 06:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- The issue about the ABC site is incorrect as well, I was able to look up an article about another child prodigy on the ABC site from 2003. Dysprosia 06:34, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
We are not questioning your existence or honesty. It is the article that is being evaluated. Please read the links suggested by Zoe and Dysprosia. Given that feelings are quite heated, perhaps it would be a good idea to take a break and resume this dicussion later, with cooler heads.--inks 06:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Just please show me the link to the other child prodigy article, inkhead. --Figgleeeeeo 06:39, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- So why can't I write articles on us on Wikipedia? How come there are articles on people I don't know about, like Zoe, Inkhead and Dr Adam Carr? --Figgleeeeeo 06:40, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Those are user pages, because they have a "User:" in front of them. They aren't part of the encyclopedia. Here is the other news article. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200308/s930435.htm Dysprosia 06:40, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Firstly, that guy is British, and secondly, he's clearly up himself. --Figgleeeeeo 06:42, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You are not helping your case. At least that guy has a news article to back up his story. Dysprosia 06:43, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- What's a user page and why don't I get one? Everybody else has one to make their own family articles. Again, is money an issue? --Figgleeeeeo 06:45, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You have one. You edited it yourself: User:Figgleeeeeo. You can write whatever you want on that page and only that page and no one will argue. Dysprosia 06:48, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Really? Well why didn't anybody tell me? That was all I wanted. We can all have user pages. Here you all were, faffing around with votes for deletion, Cayden Boyd, child prodigies and other crap when you could have just said: "Amber, you are new to Wikipedia, instead of confusing you with links we will point you to your user page for your family articles and photos". --Figgleeeeeo 06:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You have one. You edited it yourself: User:Figgleeeeeo. You can write whatever you want on that page and only that page and no one will argue. Dysprosia 06:48, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- What's a user page and why don't I get one? Everybody else has one to make their own family articles. Again, is money an issue? --Figgleeeeeo 06:45, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Wikipedia isn't a place for just your family articles and photos, we're not a free hosting site. Dysprosia 06:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- I thought we'd solved the issue. Dr Adam Carr has information and photos of and about himself, anyway, why can't I do that? It's not a proper article, right? --Figgleeeeeo 06:58, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Wikipedia isn't a place for just your family articles and photos, we're not a free hosting site. Dysprosia 06:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, but he uses his user page to take note of his work on the Wikipedia project. - Mgm|(talk) 11:42, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Well I'll do that too then. --Figgleeeeeo 11:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Your user page is here Figgleeeeeo. Just click the "Edit this page" link at the top. --inks 06:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- If you want to argue a page be undeleted, see Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion, and make your case there. Dysprosia 06:43, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Figgs has now made a half-baked effort at deleting Cayden Boyd. Zoe 06:46, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Who's Figgs? I was told to delete Cayden Boyd, anyway. --Figgleeeeeo 06:49, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- You're not User:Skyring by any chance? I just find the mention of Dr Adam Carr and a vanity publisher in Canberra a little coincidental--Porturology 04:22, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
- How about...no? I am Amber Baryan. What is with this place? --Figgleeeeeo 22:33, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
First language
editIf English isn't your first language, you may find it easier to contribute in another language. The Main Page lists all of them if you scroll down a little. - Mgm|(talk) 11:44, August 26, 2005 (UTC)