Farhadus
With reference to foot notes 17,18, and 19: Fritz Meier, Anna Merie Schimmel, Frank Lewis and all other so called authorities on Rumi do not even speak Rumi's language: Dari or classic Farsi. So how could they conduct research in Wakhsh or Balkh in Afghanistan to identify Rumi's birthplace? Rumi himself refers to Balkh in his Mathnawi as his birthplace. In the introduction to Shams e Tabrisi, he himself explains where he comes from and how he traveled to Koyna over Naishapur. That is enough to accept that he was from Balkh. No where in Mathnawi or other sources, Waksh is even mentioned. Where is the evidence.
As a student I have met Anna Merie Schimmel at the University of Freiburg im Breisgau in Germany (1987). She does not speak one word of Persian, Tajiki or Dari. She speaks Turkish. Waksh is in central Asia and ruled by Turks for many centuries. Fritz Meier at that time was in Basel and received a Dr.Hon. from Freiburg. He did not speak Farsi. Dr Frank Lewis is currently at the University of Chicago. I have corresponded with him and he does not speak the language nor has he conducted research on Rumi's origin.
Furthermore, Seyyed Hossein Nasr, in his book "Islamic Art and Spirituality", explain the genealogy(Suny Press, 1987. p. 115): "Jalal al-Din was born in a major center of Persian culture, Balkh, from Persian speaking parents, and is the product of that Islamic Persian culture which in the 7th/13th century dominated the 'whole of the eastern lands of Islam and to which present day Persians as well as Turks, Afghans, Central Asian Muslims and the Muslims of the Indo-Pakistani and the Muslims of the Indo-Pakistani subcontinent are heir. It is precisely in this world that the sun of his spiritual legacy has shone most brilliantly during the past seven centuries. The father of Jalal al-Din, Muhammad ibn Husayn Khatibi, known as Baha al-Din Walad and entitled Sultan al-'ulama', was an outstanding Sufi in Balkh connected to the spiritual lineage of Najm al-Din Kubra." I have studied at the George Washington University under Nasr and have a degree.
It is astonishing that a few Westerners assume an authority and create "facts". And why Wikipedia is so stubborn to objectively look at the fact before deciding to "assign" nationality to Rumi on its website? May be one should investigate if Shakespeare was Irish!
August 2018 edit
This is your only warning; if you vandalize Wikipedia again, as you did at Al-Biruni, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. ---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 23:34, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
the article contains inaccurate and biased information about Rumi. He was not Iranian. He war born in Balkh and that city is in Afghanistan. At the time of his birth or life, Iran did not rule Afghanistan. There is a reference by Anna Marie Schimmel. Late in her life, she collaborated with Sayyed Housein Nasr and errouneouly asserted that Rumi may have come from Waksh in Tajistan.
- We need reliable sources on Wikipedia, not user's opinions. The fact that Iran ruled Afghanistan or not at that time is irrelevant. For example many Iranian scholars emerged during the Turkish and Mongol rule over Iran (Al-Tusi, Al-Kashi, Khayyam ...), with your flawed rationale, we should say that they're Turks or Mongols. The only point that matters with Rumi is that we have reliable sources listing him as Iranian. End of.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 00:38, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Nonses.
Balkh is in Afghanistan and Khawarzm Shah (Turk) ruled Central Asia at the time when Rumi was born and lived. You and the other "Persians" are confused. Bactria is the birthplace of Zoroaster, Rumi, Avicenna and many more. Bactria thrived 1700 years before Cryus could wide his rear in 550 BC. Daqiqi wrote the first 1000 couplets of Shahnameh and it was completed by Ferdowsi, sorry to say, in Ghazni in Afghanistan. Al Biruni had NOTHING to do with Iran. He was from Khawarzam (973–1050), located between Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan.
Anna Marie or Nasr or you are not important. Rumi called himself Balkhi. So we don't need Wikipedia and some scholars to fabricate and practice cultural hegemony.
So what reliable sources do you have that Rumi was from Iran? Rumi never lived in Iran. He spoke Dari, not Farsi. Iranian Farsi is half Arabic and most Iranians can barely read and understand Rumi's writings. What does Rumi have anything to do with Iran? Why does your article state that Rumi was from Balk-Afghanistan if according to your "reliable sources" he was Iranian?
Why suddenly Rumi becomes "Persian" Where did you get your Ph.D. from? The use or reference of Persian by Iranians may have other reasons. Rumi was not an Iranian by any figment of your rationale or definition of what "Persian" is. The problem with marketing Persian is an identity crisis among Iranians. According to the Iranian definition of Persian, then one can call Mozart a German too. He spoke German.
Here is a reference for you to understand the reason for masking everything under the term "Persian"
Mohsen Mobasher, Cultural Trauma and Ethnic Identity Formation Among Iranian Immigrants in the United States; American Behavioral Scientist, Volume 50 Number 1 September 2006 100-117 © 2006 Sage Publications 10.1177/0002764206289656,
- Mohsen Mobasher is dealing with the "trauma of Iranian immigrants in the USA" (and more precisely, in Texas), this has nothing to do with a medieval poet. There are reliable sources (like Clifford Edmund Bosworth) in the article who list Rumi as Persian, that's all that matters. For your information, i studied my PhD at Pierre and Marie Curie University, in Paris (since you asked me about that, but I don't see how my studies are relevant here ...). Also, your above comment " Anna Marie or Nasr or you are not important." just shows that you're a WP:NOTHERE user, so let me warn you again: if you vandalize Wikipedia again with you POV, i'll find an admin to step in and deal with you. Now, i think you and me are done here.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 03:11, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Persian does not mean "IRANIAN."
You are confused like many other Iranians. Rumi was not PERSIAN; NOR ARE THE IRANIANS IN MODERN IRAN "PERSIAN." Parsu and Pani were Vedic tribes among other 32 tribes. And Ariana, Aria and Bactria and Kushans ruled the entire region including what you call "Persia" 1700 years before Cyrus and Darius could read and write Avestan that was developed again in Bactriana or BALKH that is in AFGHANISTAN. Even Iran's shah dealt with the identity crisis that stems from 2 sources:
Greek and Arab dominance and defeat of "Persia." Read more and take it easy. And stop your BS threats. Wikipedia must remove the reference of Iranian from Rumi's biography. It is factually inaccurate. Rumi was born in Balkh and he was not an Iranian. And Balkh was not under the rule of Iran.
To enlighten you a little more, here is another reference for you
A History of Zoroastrianism: Volume 1, The Early Period (Handbook of Oriental Studies/Handbuch Der Orientalistik) Jan 1, 1996, by Mary Boyce
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Rumi, you may be blocked from editing. Wario-Man (talk) 08:56, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Correct the translation of the following poem by Rumi included in the article and remove the comment that links Rumi to Iran. The translation is inaccurate if you understand the poem and its meaning: Bold text پارسی گو گرچه تازی خوشتر است — عشق را خود صد زبان دیگر است
Say it in Persian although in Arabic sounds better—Love, however, has its own many other dialects explain this statement
These cultural, historical and linguistic ties between Rumi and Iran have made Rumi an iconic Iranian poet
1. please provide the exact reference from Rumi's book The verses don't link Rumi to Iran or make him, as the statement in the article states an "iconic Iranian Poet." Rumi talks about himself and uses two languages as metaphor and show his preference to the Arabic as the language of Quran that bring him to the truth of God. In reality, he looks down on "Persian."
2. please provide the reference for the translator. The translator must be an illiterate wiki expert. There are numerous verses in Mathnawi where Rumi talks about his birth place-Balkh, and Zoroaster and compares the Quran to Zend. How come your article does not make Rumi an "iconic Afghan poet?" After all, Balkh is in Afghanistan and has been the center of its culture as Ariana.
3. provide exact references for Fritz Meier where he states about Waksh
4. exact source how Rumi influenced the Pashto poetry.
5. Why your article has a heading Iran World whereby there should be an Afghan World or Tajik World or a Turkish world.
6. The article reads: "cultural, historical and linguistic ties between Rumi and Iran have made Rumi an iconic Iranian poet, and some of the most important Rumi scholars including Foruzanfar, Naini, Sabzewari"
What about Baytab, Khalili and Dawi or your PhD colleague don't know who they are? is this an example of being neutral. It is obviouse that the article is written by some Iranian working for Wiki without having a thourough knowledge of Rum and the region where he lived.
I will contact
1. My state senator/congressman to deal with Wiki as the Senate legislates how the websites function 2. I will contact ACLU to review you CC BY-SA license and GFDL if you continue to be abusive to the viewers. 3. Also, the "EDIT" button gives the reader the right to edit and you use the button as a monopoly to preserve erroneous and misleading information and create bias. All the while Wiki makes money and allows you and your Ph.D. Wiki buddy to create a hostile anti-intellectual environment. We don't vandalize the articles on Wiki. The readers such as myself help Wiki to improve its quality.
Fix this the translation and remove the linkage of Rumi to Iran as its iconic Iranian poet. The comment about the poem and its translation are both inaccurate.
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. - LouisAragon (talk) 13:48, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:07, 24 August 2018 (UTC)