Faelomx

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estas?

hola faelomx, creo que aqui andas mayor tiempo, por ello te voy a deci que donde estas? andas aca? por que no volves a la wikipedia en español? ... que paso? dime y ayudame!

84.122.192.41 19:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC) escribi aca abajo

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Eurovision Song Contest

Countries coloured by "Voting Alliances"

I have restored the map on "Voting Alliances". The image was removed by User:Klamber, with a edit summary "deleting unreferenced and geographically inaccurate map (e.g., why are Estonian islands different than mainland?". The user has now been blocked, suspected of being a sockpuppet. The issue seems to be some kind of irredentist paranoia. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Estland. -- Petri Krohn 22:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Toledo Bridge

Hi Faelomx! I'd like you to reconsider/check your sources regarding that bit about el (p/P)uente de Toledo. I think part of the confusion is that with a capital P it would refer to the bridge crossing the Manzanares, whereas with a small p it would refer to the bridge crossing the Tagus. The other part is that bit about "... from then on, would take the same route to Toledo, but..."

It's clear that Toledo was the first destination after leaving Madrid, at least until the Despeñaperros route was finally developed (the works started in 1779). And probably until the N. IV headed off (towards Ocaña?). And once at Toledo, travellers had to decide whether to head "southwest, towards the valley of the Alcudia and the Guadalquivir or, for travellers headed for Jaén or Granada, southeast towards the Muradal Pass in the Sierra Morena, near Despeñaperros".

Your version:

The influence in Madrid was that with the opening of this passage from the entrance to Andalusia, the roads to Toledo were abandoned, and the new road became more important than the old one. The road from Madrid to Andalusia, from then on, would take the same route to Toledo, but turning south once past the Puente de Toledo.

My version:

The influence in Madrid was that with the opening of this passage from the entrance to Andalusia, the roads to Toledo were abandoned, and the new road became more important than the old one. The road from Madrid to Andalusia, from then on, would take the same route to Toledo, but turning south once past the bridge over the Tagus at Toledo.

From one of the interesting sources you provided (Atlas de Andalucía, pp. 163, 183. Junta de Andalucía.):

"Antes de la apertura de Despeñaperros [the works started in 1779], las rutas a Andalucía desde el centro de la Meseta partían de Toledo para bifurcarse posteriormente hacia el valle de Alcudia y el del Guadalquivir o hacia el puerto del Muradal, en las proximidades de Despeñaperros,..." [...] "Camino de las Ventas: Sirvió durante siglos como la principal vía de comunicación entre la Meseta y el valle del Guadalquivir. Entre Toledo y Sevilla..." (p. 163.) AND "En el mapa oficial de 1760 aparecen, además, las postas que unían Jaén, Granada, Málaga y Algeciras con el camino de Andalucía (aún por Almodóvar y Toledo), y por tanto con Madrid,..." [...] "el segundo mapa (1804) no difieren mucho del anterior, salvo ciertas mejoras,..." (p. 183.)

Sorry to take up so much space here, but before opening it up to the community at the article talk page (the article still needs a lot of cleaning up before too many people get to see it), let me know what you think/what your sources tell you. I'll be travelling over the next few days so won't be able to reply promptly, Cheers! Technopat (talk) 09:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for improving the article, it is a great job.

Regarding the bridge that was, the original route of the departure south of Madrid was to Toledo, there was never a departure to Andalusia. It is still seen in the layout of the streets around Madrid: The Ronda de Toledo and Ronda de Valencia, which currently mark the exits to A-42 (Toledo Street / Calle General Ricados) and A-3 (Avenida de la Albufera).

The N-IV really starts its route in the current Antonio Lopez street to the left of the Toledo Bridge having use of the Toledo road.

The 1857 itinerary was:

"For Cartagena, through Albacete and Murcia, and for Cadiz and Toledo, through the streets of Carretas, Concepcion Geronima and from Toledo to the Puerta de Toledo" (at that date it was the limit of Madrid) and once the river was crossed trought Puente de Toledo, there were two main roads: To Toledo and to Andalucia.

And in the 20 century:

• Puerta de Toledo
• Calle de Toledo
• Glorieta de las Pirámides
• Puente de Toledo
• Glorieta del Marqués de Vadillo
• Calle de Antonio López
• Glorieta de Cádiz,
• Calle de Antonio López

In this article you can solve your doubt:

https://recyt.fecyt.es/index.php/CyTET/article/download/83690/61774/275792

In figure 1 of the PDF you can see at the bottom left the bridge of Toledo and the roads that leave, the one on the right is the route to Andalucia.

Therefore, for southwards way it's taken profit from the existing infrastructure built and that was the Toledo Bridge.

I love large texts.

Thanks and best regards.

Faelomx (talk) 14:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi again. Thanks for your reply and the pdf. Don't have time to read it right now, but hopefully I'll be able to do so on the flight. As I mentioned above, I'll try to reply at greater length (!) over the next few days. Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 15:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Despeñaperros Pass

Hi Faelomx. You added references for "Wais 1974", "López Morell 2005", and "Rodríguez Lázaro 2000" to Despeñaperros Pass, but none of those works are defined in the article. {{sfn}} templates are used to create a hyperlink to a full cite, which explains which work the short form is referring to. Could you add the required cites to the Bibliography section, or let me know what they are? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 15:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi! Now appears the complete reference to books. Regards Faelomx (talk) 20:40, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Faelomx. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:00, 4 October 2023 (UTC)