EthanKid17

Please Add anything i need to work on EthanKid17 (talk) 17:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Your paper

Post your paper here on your talk page and I might read it, if it's not too long. I don't open websites if I'm not familiar with them; that's a great way to get a nasty virus. I can't promise if or when I'll look at your paper, but you don't have anything to lose by putting it here. It might also encourage others to look at it. Cresix (talk) 17:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

BTW, you should stop making this request on any article talk page. That can get you blocked if you keep doing it. It violates Wikipedia policy. Cresix (talk) 17:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh Ok. the paper is in google docs so i don't think you'll get a virus. but here is the link anyway

https://docs.google.com/a/wausauschools.org/document/d/1sHPTah3q0Qf8baHfhdToYIWo0MpaEGlmouEN3RitjaY/edit?hl=en&pli=1# EthanKid17 (talk) 17:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

You are inconsistant in your capitalization of ADHD. ADHD isn't called attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but ADHD is an abreviation or an acronym for it. Tourette's and ADHD aren't the same thing, but they do occur together often. ADHD isn't always genetic. The article here suggests about 70% of the time. Get rid of the 500-1000 medications, just say there are many. Just a few thoughts. Guyonthesubway (talk) 18:38, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

thank you for taking a look at it. I will implicate the changes you offered to me. And one other thing I would like to ask everyone that reads it i am looking for more information anyone can give me to add to or i will make so you guys or girls can do the changes yourself if you want to do that.

Ethan Krueger 18:41, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

You recently made a submission to Articles for Creation. Your article has been reviewed and declined; it is now located at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/ADHD Paper. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. Feel free to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. (You can do this by adding the text {{subst:AFC submission/submit}} to the top of the article.) Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Alpha Quadrant ^talk 19:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Perpetual Motion Machines

I need any help anyone can give me EthanKid17 16:56, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

What exactly do you need? Details? What's the project? Guyonthesubway (talk) 21:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Well i need some facts that i can have backed up in a essay/paper. I have an outline for the paper but i don't know where to look to find the information for my outline. the project is not to create a perpetual motion machine but the thinking behind a perpetual motion machine. i still have to make something that can run on its own energy for a short amount of time. i know that it costs lots of money to make a perpetual motion machine and i don't think there is enough money in the world to be able to even design a perpetual motion machine. i have a video that i want to utilize for my machine but i don't know how to make it because the guy in the video doesn't really tell how to make it. EthanKid17 16:18, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

i just talked to my teacher to get some more info on the project. he says that i have to create a machine that can fit on a table. the learning process is what the project is about more or less and while i am creating the machine the failures and problems that i run into is part of the learning process that i am talking about. so i can improve the machine more and more and i can fid out how to make it better. EthanKid17 16:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Historically there have been five sorts of PM machine. This might be a start point as a structure for a paper.

• Real, working Perpetual Motion machines. I have no personal experience with these.
• Perpetual Motion machines that just don't work. These are the most common, although most are only on paper. They are usually due to either a misunderstanding of a principle (e.g. capillary bowl), or poor accounting for their total power (lever arm machines - one side will indeed tend to rotate, but the other side balances it).
• Working machines that run for a very long time and so appear to be perpetual, e.g. the Oxford Electric Bell.
• Working machines that run indefinitely, by absorbing power from outside, e.g. the Atmos clock.
• Deliberate frauds. Hidden clockworks, assistants in an adjacent cellar cranking a drive shaft, that sort of thing.

One question for a paper would be whether it's on the engineering of PM (Why it can't work, debunking the list of attempts, probably a bit dull and all done before), the psychology of PM (Why do we keep trying? Why (like alchemy and 419 scams) can gullible marks repeatedly be conned with the same scam?), or (more interestingly) the scientific educational psychology of PM (Why do inventors understand only just enough mechanics to invent these things, not to see their flaws? Why does a 2nd Law proof not simply stop them even trying?). Andy Dingley (talk) 16:52, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Here is the outline that i have created for my essay/paper https://docs.google.com/a/wausauschools.org/document/d/1vN_KrvUcyyI_ux9IroY5OctHGG6pFkcReWvVxzN8O_E/edit?hl=en&authkey=CN3zg-gJ# if you guys could read and help me find the information/facts i will give you guys the credit in the essay/paper. EthanKid17 17:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

is it possible to have big super magnets attached to something circular and have a double coil turn the circular object around. how many magnets would i need to make it spin and what kind of double coils would or should i use to make it spin. i did read in the article about magnets and how scientists have been appealed by them. i also know that the double coil wil start fighting the magnets that create that spining motion so it creates electricity in the coil. right? EthanKid17 17:03, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

• Couple of ideas for "off the shelf" machines you can buy that are "nearly perpetual" are the Crookes radiometer (fragile, needs strong light, but they are cool) and also the "potato powered clock", an ultra-low-power digital LCD clock that runs off water or fruit and dissimilar metals (it makes a weak battery). The swinging weight machines would be really neat to make, but they're a lot of parts and would need to be extremely low friction to turn at all. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Personally I'd start with Laws_of_thermodynamics#First_law. Look at a machine and draw a simple block diagram. Energy / Work comes out somewhere... either by turning a wheel or a shaft or through electricity. Energy has to come from somewhere. Think about a diesel motor, diesel fuel goes in, and out comes motion. Do the same diagram for a perpetual motion machine and generally you only have energy or work coming out. Keep it simple. A simple statement of the First Law and a demonstration of some devices that do and do not violate it. Guyonthesubway (talk) 17:11, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

• First comment on your paper outline is that it seems to be assuming a PM machine is / could be real, so it's asking the usual sorts of question that you might ask about a new or improved real engine, things like "What are the applications for this?" & "How does it work?" Now PM machines just aren't real, so these questions have really dull answers of "There are no applications for this, it doesn't work". I think you have to move your questions along a bit. Instead of asking, "How does it work?" you need to ask, "How was it thought to work, which principle was it expecting to use, where did their understanding of this go wrong and why doesn't it really work?"

Your paper could, I think, go in one or two directions: it could be about the failed history of attempted machines, or it could be about the closest approaches achieved to a working machine, the "long time" and the "environmental power" machines. The second is harder, but it might let you produce a machine that actually did something. Can you find a barometer mechanism? Can you make this drive a paper tape along with a needle point ratchet? (Tape on shiny flat surface, sewing needle attached to barometer pointer, needle pushes paper tape along when barometer goes up, ratchets back when barometer falls.) Andy Dingley (talk) 17:18, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

• Anything with electricity has resistance, so it loses energy by ohmic heating, and it's obviously not going to be PM. However web search for homopolar motor demonstration and you'll find something pretty cool that's easy to do with a Nd supermagnet. Superconductors are probably of interest, but not practical. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:24, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

So for each of PM machine you proposed what are the exact material that i need to make them because i don't really understand what i should use to make the PM machines that ur talking about. EthanKid17 18:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I see a problem with "making PM machines". First of all, as they don't work, yours (definitely!) isn't going to work either. That isn't a particularly impressive display, unless it's also attractive to look at. You could make a really nice version of the swing weights on a disk machine (things that look cool score points, even if they don't work), but there's a lot of parts in one of those. How much workshop tools and skill have you got access to? What sort of thing can you practically make? (Remember that you do have to finish these, or else it really goes pear-shaped.)

The "long time" machines were usually high-voltage electrostatic machines running in a vacuum belljar, so as to avoid air resistance. The Oxford Bell uses batteries that have lots of parts (and aren't available any more), but this was quite easy to make back in the 1970s with mil-surplus. Most LCD digital clocks could be persuaded to work from a couple of potato or fruit batteries, and I'm sure you could find the parts to make this. You could also try driving a very low power electric motor - like the ones sold for school science experiments with solar power.

The "environment power" machines use daily cycles of either temperature or air pressure to be their prime mover. This needs you to find things like either old barometer mechanisms, large bimetallic strips from thermostats or toasters, or bottles of mercury (a bit hazardous!). Then the rest is tricky, but possible.

Of the non-working machines, a capillary bowl is easy to make and the dry sponge / wet sponge weight tower would be too, if you can find a suitable ready-made chain mechanism and pulleys (bath plug chain?) You can see the PM article - which machines on there do you think you could make? Andy Dingley (talk) 19:31, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

The kind of workshop tools that i have access to aare things like a drill press, Miter Saws, Table Saws, Tile Saws, Grinders, Sanders, Lathes, Jointers, Band Saws, Screwdrivers, Mallets, Hammers, Chalk, Rules, Tape Measures, Pliers, Grips, Files, Carving Tools, Wrenches, Scissors, Cutters, Magnetic Tools, Measuring, Marking Tools, Picks, Forceps, Tap, Die Sets, Hand Saws, Pry Bars, Levels, Blades, Grinding, Cutting Discs, Sharpening Accessories, Router Bit Sets, Individual Router Bits, Table Saw, Chisel, Lathe Accessories, Cordless Tool Batteries, Benches & Stands, Jigs, Rotary Accessories, Bit Sets, and plus many others that are much, much older than the 1940's so iam pretty sure that i have the tools needed if i don't i can figure something out. EthanKid17 19:56, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I think he's looking for you to say 'I can work wood' or 'I can work metal' or 'I can solder'. Have you read the articles suggested to you? Do those devices look like something you could make? Guyonthesubway (talk) 22:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like a fair range of tools. How about making a weighted wheel? Either the sort with swing-out weights, or (even easier) with the slotted disk and the heavy ball bearings rolling in slots? You need a good bearing (hard tapered steel needle in a hard conical socket), but it should work. Are you familiar with the Atmos clock? A demonstration of something like that would be good, although less obviously immediately appealing. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:27, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

no i am not familiar with the Atmos Clock --EthanKid17 17:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC) (EthanKid17 17:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC))

The wiki article and the linked web pieces should give you a start. I think it's too difficult to make an Atmos (the problem of handling the chloroethane filling liquid) but a ready made aneroid capsule from an old barometer (the bigger the better) could be made to act as a demonstration, working some lightweight machinery. The problem is how to make an efficient ratchet - how to turn a low-power back-and-forth movement into a progressive single direction movement. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

World of Warcraft

Talk about World of Warcraft in this section. EthanKid17 20:13, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edits

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