User talk:Ellin Beltz/Archive 3

Larrabee

Thanks for filling in Henry P. Larrabee bio data, had most of this in notes and had in mind expanding the artilce like that but had not had the time to come back and write that one. Looks great. Asiaticus (talk) 23:24, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm red-faced

Facepalm I am soooo sorry for the obvious error on my part. Don't know too many fellas named Ellin. I notice your first contribution was an article on Hobart Brown. Do you know any more about him than is in the article? I grew up in a town named Hobart, and I always want to know more about guys with that name. On the subject of Doyle Doss, the guy who wrote the article isn't a newbie or a WP:SPA, but the article only has the one reliable source (NYT). The RV "magazine" is an advertising site, and of course the gadget site is not reliable. If the PROD doesn't stick, I think it would probably get deleted at AfD with no problem. 13 is a really good editor. You make good friends! Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:27, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice of what to do with the Doyle Doss page, unfortunately I don't know how to AfD it. Could you help? Thank you! Ellin Beltz (talk) 14:50, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Help with Bucksport, California

Bucksport, California is the name of a small community inside the city of Eureka, California. For some reason unknown to me, two pages were created at about the same time by the same user, both about the former town of "Bucksport." The other page name is Buck's Port, California. Of the two pages we currently have, Bucksport, California should be kept as "Buck's Port" is a variant spelling of that name. I would appreciate help how to keep the one page, and not keep the other page. The Humboldt County populated places template would also need to be adjusted, but that looks like a fairly simple edit. Thanking you for your help! Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello! I think what you're looking for is a redirect. If the two places are one and the same, and Bucksport is the more commonly-used variation, feel free to redirect Buck's Port to point towards it. That way, anyone searching for either variation of the name will end up at the right place.

Normally, I'd do this for you, but as I'm not familiar with the area I'll let someone who knows make the call.

If you have any further questions, feel free to let us know! Regards, m.o.p 05:15, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for information on how to redirect a page to Bucksport, California. I was bold and did it. Besides driving through what is left of the town several times a week, I noticed that all the old written references (1853 to present) spell it as "Bucksport" all one word. I don't know why two pages were created on same "ghost town," but again thank you for your help, we are now down to one page! Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:24, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

No worries! And thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! Even little things like this make a big difference. Cheers, m.o.p 05:30, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

The same "editor" working from an encyclopedia ran through the counties of California and created innumerable pages related to innumerable articles because the antiquated source he was working from listed all such places. Your work in cleaning up this mess is a blessing. Thank you...thank you...thank you! Norcalal (talk) 08:04, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Recent work on Bucksport, California

Thank you for your recent work on Bucksport, CA. Your indefatigable efforts have earned my gratitude. I am forever grateful. Now if you could fix the multiple messes related to Dinsmore that would be a miracle that even the Almighty may take notice of! Norcalal (talk) 08:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 22

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Hint re OCLCs

Hello Ellin. I noticed you added a lot of WorldCat OCLC #s to John Ross Browne. Did you know there's a template for OCLCs? {{OCLC|50722235}} gives you OCLC 50722235 or, for multiple #s, {{OCLC|24515951|656314379}} gives you OCLC 24515951, 656314379 . Happy editing! --S. Rich (talk) 16:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I did not know, and will go change if you have not already hit it with a magic wand! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. The changes on Browne have been made. I think it is a great template. WorldCat has all the ISBNs & edition data, so it works well. It is especially nice to avoid the {{ASIN|12345}} Amazon.com link. --S. Rich (talk) 18:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Ellin Beltz. You have new messages at Elen of the Roads's talk page.
Message added 14:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Snow in Eureka and surrounding area.

Hi Ellin. In 1989 I was a very young man in Eureka. I remember distinctly my brother in law waking me on the morning of all the snow that February. I have checked several sources and the best detail a snow depth total of 1 inch. Though on first glance that seems too little for the magical winter wonderland that Eureka was transformed into, I remember skating into town from my family's home in my 1966 ginormous Ford Gallaxy Custom 66. Though the entire region was "blanketed", and my memory of the event is crystal clear, a full inch on the ground in Eureka seems to only have occurred a hand full of times in recorded weather history. Of course that is true. The Coast Redwood can only survive in an extraordinarily mild climate. Any more than rare snow would kill those trees. So though I remember snow everywhere, it was only an inch. Amazing. It closed down EVERYTHING. As there is no capacity on the part of the City of Eureka and the County of Humboldt is not much better off, schools closed, people hunkered down, and as I recall, the snow stuck, of course, but also stayed put for days. That was the really rare part. Norcalal (talk) 11:17, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

To include snowfalls of extraordinary depth requires citation. This anonymous edit said " however, on 4 February 1989, 2.0 inches (51 mm) fell in Eureka and additional snow that month brought the monthly total to 3.5 inches (89 mm)." I am unable to find a citation to support that statement. I looked for one, found this and see 1972 with an 0.90 inch snowfall as most in 24 hours, except 1950 which was 1.50. So if one snowfall gets citated, I suspect the 1950 one would be as it is the truly extraordinary event ! Ellin Beltz (talk) 01:54, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Ellin. So much is missing from writing. As you know this is why email and texting can be so treacherous. My point of my little story is that though it seemed like so very much snow in 1989, it REALLY was only an inch (though in my mind and memory it seemed like it was many inches!). I meant to write in a manner above to thank you for catching that issue in the climate section of the article...but then ended up musing about the event rather than the point of the encyclopedia. Now I will make it worse (LOL). I was in kindergarten at Freshwater Elementary School (thank you again for trying to help me save that article- you remember Freshwater Gate) when we had that "blizzard" in 1972...it seemed :-). Anyway, now you get my point. I will never forget either event despite the fact they would be barely noticeable (for a person from Chicago or Canada) except for someone (like me) from the very mild California Coastal climate was awestruck. To this day, I have NEVER been in a REAL snowstorm despite traveling through Europe and across America. Norcalal (talk) 03:10, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Dates?

Another editor reverts my edits to DMY date format on article about local historic bridge, while others put "must use DMY" tags on my articles. Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers, general consensus is to use MYD format (February 18, 2013) for US related articles, and DMY format (18 February 2013) elsewhere. If the article isn't location specific, retain the format the first editor who added a date used.   An optimist on the run! 08:36, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Then why do the bots and European editors go through and change all the dates the other way, and why does it sign after our names with DMY? Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 18

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Indian massacre, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Dakota and Lakota (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Oops, fixed. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:30, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Hobart

Thank you for your reply. I grew up in Hobart, Indiana, which was founded by a man named George Earle in the 1850's. His brother, Hobart, had moved to Australia and eventually founded Hobart, Tasmania. George missed him and hence named his town after him, or so goes the folklore. My interest was simply in the generic uses of "Hobart" as the connection to my Hobart and the most famous one in Tasmania is so strong. Hobart, after all is, and was, a very unusual name! Thanks again. Gtwfan52 (talk) 16:34, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

You have a new message!

Hello, Ellin Beltz. You have new messages at Mediran's talk page.
Message added 06:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mediran (t • c) 06:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

I learned how to use WP:REVERT Tysvm! Ellin Beltz (talk) 01:57, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Re: Thank you!

I noticed we were editing lots of the same articles, and I'm sorry I haven't gotten in touch sooner. Thank you for breaking the ice.

I think the tag you're looking for is {{Coord unknown}}, which I invented back in 2009.

If you're interested in a more direct collaboration, I have in mind to update the California state legislature information for populated places in northern California. Like our congressional districts, our state legislative districts were redrawn in 2011 and the new districts are, in most cases, now in effect. The challenge is that Assembly seats change hands fairly often, making it difficult to keep thousands of articles up-to-date. I set up {{Representative}} so that such changes could be managed in a centralized fashion for multiple representative bodies. If you're interested, maybe we could work on this together. —Stepheng3 (talk) 18:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

That project sounds fun and useful, I'd be glad to be of any help I could! Thank you for the tag, I will apply it to the lost places of Humboldt and make that Category page shorter. Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

OK. Start by studying California's 2nd State Assembly district. Four of the North Coast counties are entirely contained in it, and all four used to be in the 1st district. You could go though the articles about settlements in those counties and replace this text:

and in the 1st [[California State Assembly|Assembly]] District, represented by Democrat [[Wesley Chesbro]].

to something like this:

and {{Representative|caad|2|fmt=adistrict}}.<ref>{{Cite web
 |url=http://assembly.ca.gov/assemblymembers |title=Members Assembly |accessdate=March 2, 2013
 |publisher=State of California}}</ref>

Note that the representative hasn't changed, just the number.—Stepheng3 (talk) 22:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, all the towns & CDPs in Del Norte, Humboldt, Trinity & Mendocino are done. I didn't do any of the towns or CDPs in Sonoma because the county is split districted and few of those pages have "Politics" sections from which to get the right answer. I assumed it would be better to do Sonoma County as a single unit with guidance. There were several pages in Trinity County that had to be updated because their the 4th State Senate district is now represented by Republican Jim Nielsen; the other gentleman having resigned. So I fixed those as well in passing. If any town or CDP in the four counties (as above) was missing a "Politics" section, I added it. Please let me know what would be useful to do next? With best wishes, Ellin Beltz (talk) 03:37, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for taking on that task. I'm saving the California State Senate for later, since it appears to be in the midst of a complicated transition right now. If you don't mind repetitive tasks, you could work on some other northern California counties which are unsplit in the new State Assembly:

1.) Siskiyou, Modoc, Shasta, Lassen, Plumas, Sierra, and Nevada counties in the 1st Assembly District, represented by Republican Megan Dahle;

2.) Tehama, Glenn, Sutter, and Yuba counties in the 3rd Assembly District, represented by Republican James Gallagher;

3.) Lake, Napa, and Yolo counties in the 4th Assembly District, represented by Democrat Cecilia Aguiar-Curry; and

4.) El Dorado, Amador, Alpine, Calaveras, Tuolumne, Mariposa, Mono, and Madera counties in the 5th Assembly District, represented by Republican Joe Patterson. Best regards, —Stepheng3 (talk) 04:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

P.S.: I'm curious about your opinion, if any, on the use of {{Infobox settlement}} to present legislative districts, as has been done for many communities in Placer County. See for example Auburn, California. If you approve, you might consider applying this technique to the articles you maintain. Either way, there's an opportunity to comment at Template talk:Infobox settlement#Electoral district. —Stepheng3 (talk) 21:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

As soon as my taxes are done, I'll get on the next batch of edits, and I'm still thinking about the infoboxes. Some things I love, some I don't but I wish to gather thoughts and express! Thank you for your patience on the edits you suggested above. Ellin Beltz (talk) 06:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I've been a bit distracted myself. (I haven't even looked at my personal income tax materials yet.) No worries, —Stepheng3 (talk) 17:10, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

It's great to see you've started. For state senators, an appropriate cite would be something like:

<ref>{{Cite web
 |url=http://senate.ca.gov/senators |title=Senators |accessdate=March 10, 2013
 |publisher=State of California}}</ref>

—Stepheng3 (talk) 17:15, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I had finished Lassen and Modoc Counties without those citations for state senator. Should I go back through them for citation, or wait until there is a template for their state senators and I have to change that anyway? I don't mind either way, just let me know. Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:21, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

It's up to you! Since you're already doing the state senate, I'll get the template for that ready ASAP. —Stepheng3 (talk) 17:48, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Done this morning Lassen, Modoc and Nevada counties, stopped at Plumas (for now). Three notes

• 1.) Nevada County Politics section needs a second set of eyebals because it is split district.
• 2.) Butte County, Placer county (because they are split for Cal 1st Assembly district)
• 3.) Kingvale, California is split between Placer & Nevada Counties. I didn't do anything to it. It has no politics section.

Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:15, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I've set up a template for identifying state senators and their districts. The usual form would be like this:

{{Representative|casd|1|fmt=sdistrict}}

I need to fiddle with it to make it work well for vacant seats, but it's usable as is. —Stepheng3 (talk) 18:52, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Done fiddling. I'll take a look at those split counties. —Stepheng3 (talk) 21:38, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I've corrected the districts in the Nevada County, California article. I'm fine with Kingvale not having a Politics section. I still need to look at Butte and Placer counties. —Stepheng3 (talk) 01:15, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Going back through the counties I did before: Lassen County, Modoc County, Nevada County (not Kingvale which is split) and Plumas County are now finished with all three templates and citations. I will keep going through the counties, I'm using my sandybox (see userpage) to store the templates & the done/undone lists. Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:21, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see all the progress you're making. I've decided to work through the counties of California in alphabetical order, so it may be awhile before I get around to my own dear Sonoma County. By the way, many of your edits have introduced a redundant "the" before the state senator template. I started removing them but then thought you might want to do that yourself. Best regards, —Stepheng3 (talk) 01:03, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I fixed "the the" > "the" on Humboldt County major towns (CDPs were not changed yet), Lassen County, Modoc County, Nevada County (not Kingvale which is split) and Plumas County. I hope that is all of them. I fixed the templates I was copying from at my sandybox and also my text file. I will get back to the other northern tier counties with the templates soon, but most likely will not finish this weekend. Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:08, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

That's fine. Unfinished projects are much more fun than finished ones anyway. Keep up the good work! —Stepheng3 (talk) 05:05, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I fixed California's 2nd State Senate district to have a list of which counties/towns are included in the district profile. Perhaps you could take a look at that one? It has two maps & two info boxes. Also I am not sure we need the "prior to redistricting" description of boundaries, what do you think? It's easier for me to keep checking that I am putting the right info on pages to have the "all of ____ County" and "all of ___ County" list. Again, with this cold and my work, not too much else might happen very fast, thank you for your patience. Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:40, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

You may recall I mentioned that the state senate was in transition. It's confusing because it's debatable when the new boundaries take (or took) effect. Most sources say that the new boundaries took effect in 2012. However, the even-numbered state senate districts didn't have elections in 2012, so half the state senators now in office were elected using the old boundaries. Those articles definitely need to describe both versions of the district. As for the districts which are clearly now in effect (the odd state senate districts, all the assembly districts, and all the congressional districts) my personal preference is to keep the old information around at least until the end of the year. My first priority is to make the new information prominently available; deleting the old information seems less urgent, as long as it is well-marked as old. On that score, I'd advise doing something to the maps in California's 2nd State Senate district to distinguish which one is the old map and which one is the new map. I think the easiest solution would involve having just one infobox. —Stepheng3 (talk) 22:58, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I finished Shasta & Sierra Counties today. I also removed that second infobox per your suggestion. Ellin Beltz (talk) 01:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I saw you got to DelNorte today, I'll keep plugging on this as time permits. My schedule should be more open in the upcoming week. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:43, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate your collaboration. I should be in Humboldt real soon now. —Stepheng3 (talk) 16:59, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Wave and say "Done" when you get to Humboldt. I got a burst of energy after breakfast and before afternoon collapse and finished the towns & CDPs, in Humboldt and all the rest of the counties for which you gave me templates, as outlined on my score keeping page. For some reason I thought I had a lot more to do than just the tiny bit that was left to finish. The mind is a strange place when sick. Let me know what easy ones are next to do if you want. Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm working on Humboldt County now. Since you took care of the legislators (in the article bodies, at least), I'm mostly addressing other issues such as infoboxes. —Stepheng3 (talk) 20:59, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Josiah Gregg

The nomination is now discussed here, - sorry for the delay, - when it comes to paraphrasing issues I'm just not the right person. I trust that your part is free of them, but the general mistrust for the one who worked on it before is high, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Nice to watch the progress! - You might want to expand the lead also, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Good suggestion, I am working on it now and will see about expanding the lead, per your suggestion. Thank you for all your help in this regard!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 23:36, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Great! DYK check said you did it, - I will not be the one to approve, but anybody can do it know ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:38, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

He is waiting for an alternative hook, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Tallest Blue Gum Tree of the World

Hi Ellin, thank you for your helpful tip. You are welcome! But what is now to that tree, an Eucalyptus, in Petrolia/CA? I read in Thüringer Allgemeine from 16 Avril 2002, it is the tallest hard wood tree of the USA. And what is about the trees in Eucalyptus grove in University of Berkeley/CA. Did anyone measure these very high trees? May be, that you also know an answer to these Questions. Bye and sincerely yours. Michael— Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Fiegle (talk • contribs) 13:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Since the tallest Coast Redwood is about 380 feet (120 m) and the "World's Largest Blue Gum Eucalyptus" on Mattole Road, Petrolia, CA measures nearly 141 feet (43 m) high, 49 feet (15 m) feet around, and has a spread of 126 feet (38 m), the coast redwood is more than two times the height of the eucalyptus. I am also not finding "reliable sources" for the height of the Petrolia tree, the best I could find was a Road Side America tip which suggests asking at the Petrolia Store for details of the tree. Also I find in Spain a much taller Blue Gum Eucalyptus with a height of 68 metres (223 ft) in Río Landro, Viveiro, measured in 2010 as referenced by Monumental Trees.com.

On the U.S. Forest Service Eucalyptus globulus Labill. Bluegum Eucalyptus webpage, but referencing a magazine article "The trees that captured California." Sunset August 1956:44-49, I find the following quotation about the Berkeley eucalyptus trees: <quote>The tallest stand in California is one planted in 1877 on the University of California campus at Berkeley; it contains trees that have been more than 61 m (200 ft) tall since 1956.</quote>

At present the Berkeley, California grove is stated to be <quote>... the tallest stand of hardwood trees in North America and the tallest stand of this type of eucalyptus in the world.</quote> This comes from The University of California, Berkeley, "Strawberry Creek Tour 8. Eucalyptus Grove".

I hope this answers your question, again welcome to Wikipedia! Ellin Beltz (talk) 14:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Josiah Gregg

Orlady (talk) 00:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Precious

fight with love
Thank you for quality articles such as Josiah Gregg, expanded with devotion and resilience, for images of historic places, and for fighting vandalism with love, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

re: Your Message

Hi Ellin, I've replied to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 04:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ellin, I've replied again on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 05:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ellin, You have a new message on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 13:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Might as well add my note to this section. You have a reply on my page, too: User talk:Orlady. --Orlady (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Greater Eureka Template

Hi Ellin. Long ago, with every intention of completing articles on the areas you mentioned, I placed all the items you removed into the template. Yes, you are correct..Downtown Eureka, to date, has not been found to be notable to have an article. It's a bit odd, in that it WAS such a major trading center before the Bayshore Mall and the demise of the timber industry (along with online shopping and other factors) relegated it to marginal prosperity, at best. Even still, there are many historical structures, which may ave to be treated independently. BUT it is not at all the same as Old Town, which ends at 3rd Street. Again, these places are areas of importance, even if they do not merit (at this time, if at all) articles in the Wiki. So, I agree that they do not merit placement at this time, especially in that they uselessly clutter up the template with red, dead wiki links in the template. However, I am returning the Humboldt National Wildlife Refuge to the template as a portion of it does lie within the area of Greater Eureka...especially a secondary area of dunes on the Samoa Peninsula. No doubt we really need a good definition of boundaries for Greater Eureka, but it does stretch all the way to Manila in the North and certainly to College of the Redwoods in the South. Both of these places have assets of Refuge administrated lands. Also, the entirety of Indian/Gunther Island and therefore all the area of the historic area related to the Wiyots is squarely within the City Limits of Eureka AND the area the Wiyots have now is, in part, a "gift" from the City of Eureka. In fact all three islands in the bay are in the city. Perhaps we can just list Indian Island as a historic site in the template, without listing the specific, sensitive area...what do you think?...whoops, I see its already there... Norcalal (talk) 22:13, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, sounds great, I hadn't thought of the marshes as being inside Eureka, merely the administrative headquarters. Good point! Indian Island was listed twice, once under the Island the other time on the restricted site. I removed the restricted site and kept the public one. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:17, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Re: Wiyot territory: historically North South stretched from Eagle Prairie (Rio Dell) area up to where the Mad River touches the ocean, then was Yurok territory. From West to East, the boundary was Pacific Ocean to the ringing foothills around Humboldt Bay from Blue Lake down to Rio Dell. A lot of that area is outside "Greater Eureka." And I really don't think I can wrap my brains around any Wiyot lands being considered a "gift" of Eureka or any other white entity after the huge cost the Wiyot paid when their lives and lands were ripped from them by settlers. Nor was it much of a gift when the Wiyot have had to pay nearly $100,000 in environmental cleanup from 150 years of settlers' pollution to return the land to a useable state. The cleansing of the land is not entirely finished even yet. Ellin Beltz (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I fully understand the reality behind the "gift"...do not misunderstand that my point was made in that at the time I wrote that I misunderstood that perhaps you did not know that Indian Island is entirely within the City of Eureka...and further was concerned that you may have removed it for that reason and not on the grounds of protection of a closed, sensitive site (and thank you for educating me on that). So, of course I was not speaking of their historic territory and I am fully aware of the ridiculousness of the fact that the City of Eureka only gave back a tiny portion of the island, which, of course, was the center of both ceremonial and political existence for this indigenous people who lived in the region for thousands of years. Also, sadly as you know, the Wiyot, because of the fact that they occupied the entirety of Humboldt Bay, were not at all spared from the crimes of white settlers...its amazing that any of their descendants remain. Fortunately, for me, though distant relations of my own ancestors were in the area before the 1860 massacre, my own direct line did not arrive until the 1870s. Thank you again, Ellin, for your many considerable works on North Coast articles. As a historian with little time, your edits are accomplishing beyond what I had hoped to see in so many articles in the region. Fortunately, because I have been studying the area since I was 10 years old, I can see many nuances, not only from that experience but also from growing up and talking with long gone local historians like Martha Roscoe and studying the area. May I suggest (if you have not already examined them), to augment your own exploration, that one day you consult the Susie Baker Fountain Papers. There is one volume at HSU and one at the main Humboldt County Library. This collection of Mrs. Fountain's notes, etc. is a wealth of information that cannot be found anywhere else and is as fascinating as it is extensive. Norcalal (talk) 17:17, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

California climate data

Ellin, I appreciate what you are saying about the problems with my modifications, and in fact I am extremely familiar with the amazing range of climates in the American West compared to what I am have experienced and studied (largely self-taught, I will admit) in Australia. Perhaps I should not make direct comparisons because the effects are so varied and even the best Köppen maps fail to show small areas that do not fit what the map says. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that some of the climate sections need a good deal of improvement and I am aiming for consistency and accuracy in the data I add or improve. The section on Susanville, for instance, does not have a link to its source or even a reference. It is true that at times I have a little trouble with consistency in sources - I must say that is a problem even though the data are often better than those in Australia where all data come from the Bureau of Meteorology - because the Western Regional Climate Center uses the full period for averages and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration only the period 1971-2000. luokehao (talk) 2:06, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I have spent some time on Susanville, California this morning, providing weather links and climate charts.

The Köppen Map of the Americas is not on a fine enough scale to handle Northern California's microclimates

I agree with you for the need for improvement, but the data has to be match the source given. I first became wary sweeping changes to local climate as described on the Ferndale, California talk page, where as you can see the chart was made "much prettier" but the data was hopelessly scrambled. Note particularly the 20 F degree jump in record temperatures in January and February, and the high temperatures in the middle of the year. I'm sure the editor had the best of intentions, but their work had to be reverted.

I don't believe that replacing local descriptions and data with a one-size-fits-all classification scheme is an improvement. I support the addition of the classification type, but not the elimination of the local descriptions at the same time.

Even on the East Coast of the United States, thousands of miles from California, the Köppen system may yield apparently incorrect results, see New_York#Climate for how that was handled by other editors. So what I'm asking for is:

• if you add the Köppen numbers to articles, please do not wipe out what was there before, because an arbitrary number is no substitute for descriptions useful to real people in the real world, and
• if you change the weather data, make sure the numbers you're changing match the citations listed and that all links are active.

Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Official Seal of the City of Eureka

I have no idea why any editor would decide to remove the image the Official Seal of the city. As you mentioned in your remarks on my talk page, this has occurred before. But it does not make sense. The only reason I can think of is confusion/disbelief on the part of editors who may be unaware of the unique fact that the City of Eureka uses the Great Seal of the State of California, with only a slight change in the outer portion of the seal. Perhaps editors unaware of the historic tie between the name of the City of Eureka and the history of the State of Califirnia, especially at the moment statehood was achieved. As we are well aware, "Eureka!" Is the exclamation often used by gold miners in Motherlode Country in the Sierra Mountains. As Eureka was developed precisely in 1850 at the height of the Gold Rush, it's name is, of course tied to what was happening in Gold Country. Furthermore, despite a switch to a timber related economy very quickly, Eureka (along with Arcata or Uniontown as it was known then) was initially settled as a launching point and a port receiving provisions for miners hoping to seek fortune in a lesser known Gold strike in the area of present day Trinity County, as you know. So as I say, the only possible reason editors could have for removing the seal is that they do not understand that it is, indeed, correct for this historic city to use the Great Seal for the entire state. Of interest to me is that I do not believe there is any other similar use of the Great Seal of a State by one of the cities within any other state. Secondly, editors may have issue with a particular photo used to represent the seal. But that does not make much sense since government emblems and images of government emblems are able to be used in the Wiki without any special dispensation. However, I remember some editors going nuts over your use of a plaque memorializing a shipwreck at Centerville, so who knows. Sometimes, as we have discussed at other times the vigilance of editors can be particularly odd, even unnerving at times. For me as an editor who is more a trained historian on California's North Coast than Wikipedia etiquette, I have run into some of these rules/syntax mavens as you may recall. But I realize the quality and spit polished result we all hope will occur in articles requires both types of wiki editors. Between local or regional historians like myself and those rules people, we end up with an excellent encyclopedia. Norcalal (talk) 16:21, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

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Duckburg, etc.

Hi Ellin. What a find! The fictional towns of Duckburg and its neighbor to the north are fantastic additions to any popular culture section. Both places, especially Humboldt Bay and Lake Earl ( between Crescent City and Pelican Bay prison) are well known duck nesting, feeding, and breeding grounds as well. From earliest settlement (and before) both indigenous people's and settlers as well as modern day residents have depended upon migrating and permanent populations of ducks for both survival and, later, sport hunting. Though my own family has a long tradition of hunting large game primarily, very good family friends have been crazy for duck hunting in both areas. It's interesting how popular culture references often have a kernel of reality within though the duck "characters" would not e happy to know that their "relatives" end up on the dinner table. I have had the displeasure of eating "mud"duck shot over Humboldt Bay, and no, this version of duck is no delicacy. Blech! Anyway, your find adds more color to the article on Eureka...and probably needs to be added to both the prison and Crescent City articles as well. Btw, I want to mention again the Suzie Baker Fountain papers, which are bound and published in two massive volumes at the Humboldt Rooms within the main Humboldt County Library and at HSU. For example, in relationship to Indianola, I had discovered articles related to my family, specifically, and previous names of this small community. Previous names revealed by te Fountain papers include both Dutch Flat and Marbleville, the second name related to a quarry at the end of Ole Hansen Rd. These priceless bits of information are available on areas like Ferndale and te colorful characters that made these North Coast communities what they are. It seems that following Ms. Fountain's passing, a student at HSU made it a project to organize her collection into the 2 bound volume sets which exist. All of this talk of the culture and development of the North Coast...the entire Redwood Empire region cries out for more development of existing and new articles...and all it takes is time! I hope all is good with you...oh, and one more thing...I lost track of two of the most important books in my personal library on Humboldt history. A couple weeks ago I replaced the "Green Book" and the Two People's One Place Book. When the Green Book arrived, I found that it was an original hard cover copy, previously owned by my 9th Grade English teacher at then Winship Jr High who recently passed. And though that book is worth at leat $40, I got it n Amazon for $15....a bargain for a bit of my own history and a whole lot of the architectural history of Eureka. Dang this reminds me that I need to adjust the sections containing detil on Eureka schools as Winship is being expanded toward what it used to be years ago, before the timber industry died and families fled, dropping the numer of children in the city dramatically. So much work to do...Cheers, Norcalal (talk) 23:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Re:Visual editing

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it - I was worried that I'd gone a bit overboard with the comments, but it really is a horrible new system, and making live (and default, even worse) before ironing out the bugs was pretty ridiculous. I agree that it's likely to be bad for Wikipedia in the long run, and as you say, very patronising. Grutness...wha? 01:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Caspar Inn

Ellin, thank you for your gentle and informational edits. Any big system (like Wikipedia) gradually amasses complexities that a newbie like me can't begin to navigate, and so your sure hand is much appreciated.

There is one wrong note struck: the Caspar Inn has been dark for several months, and so characterizing it as a " a thriving nightclub" is misleading. The Inn may reinvent itself, or morph, nobody knows ... but residents of metropolitan downtown Caspar (all 50 of us) are not sad about this darkness. A roadhouse serving folks from many miles away invites accidents, and has cost more than a few loved ones their lives in recent years.

A citation is needed about helping other communities, and aside from the source documents in the hands of the Coastal Conservancy (that I don't know how to access) the best I can offer is the release already cited, from the Caspar Community's CasparCommons.org website (http://casparcommons.org/Press/PR000529.php). Casparados actively lobbied for the funding for our Headlands, but were aggressive in our inclusion of several other nearby purchases, specifically in Westport, Fort Bragg, and south of Albion. During our work in Sacramento, we encountered two repeated responses from legislators and staffers: (1) "Do you mean to tell me the whole town is in consensus about wanting this?" (Answer: Yes, because we were meticulous about doing our homework, refining the plan until we could all consent) and (2) "We don't understand why you're lobbying for other peoples' projects. Don't you realize that doing that might jeopardize your own funding?" (Answer: Yes, but we're here to represent our conservation partners, whose success is as important to us as our own.) Much head-shaking ensued. Apparently, conscientious preparation and even-handed appeals are rare in Sacramento.

Citation [10] leads me to a 404 error.

Mpotts95420 (talk) 18:20, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Morris Graves "Honors" section

Ellin, When you get a chance can you tell me what the heck is going on. I started a minor edit on my iPad and then when the wikification of a link wasnt correct, the wiki would NOT allow me to fix it. Can you explain on my talk page, if you understand what is going on, what happened? Much appreciation, if you have a few minutes to explain...if it makes sense to you. Regards, Norcalal (talk) 06:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Solved! See your talk page! Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:24, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Richie Myers and Yreka California

I added him to the notable people section. He played Major League Baseball briefly in the 1950's. Why I'm writing- I had difficulty finding a good reference for his living in Yreka. Myers died there no question about it. Baseball Almanac[1] and Baseball Reference[2] websites are considered WP:RS but as I full well know dying somewhere isn't the same as actually living in a place. The best I can do for a source of him living in Yreka, is an obituary. While obits aren't a RS usually I think we can bend here. It is only being used as proof for his being a Yreka resident. Why would a obit lie about where someone lived? When you add up the obit plus the fact we know he died there, I think we have enough proof to say Myers did live in Yreka. Those are my thoughts on the matter and just wanted to let you know....William 00:34, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree on the bending. A good obituary for the time before the Internet era is sometimes about all that's available. I found this guideline from WikiCities Project to be very helpful for section order and other details for the final spin and polish for Yreka, which is looking better with every edit! _akery backwards, who knew? Ellin Beltz (talk) 00:51, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

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Fixed this one way back when and forgot to say "fixed" here! Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

note 2 self

Loud, Llewellyn L., Field Map of Wiyot Territory, c. 1913, (Original available at the Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley.)

Bayside

Ellin, of note, "Bayside" was the original first choice of the developers of the Bayshore Mall. Well, as you can imagine, the citizens of the Bayside community were not at all interested in that happening. They succeeded in stopping it as everyone now knows since the mall does not share that name. I wanted to mention this to you in case you have an interest in including this in the article since you have done some great work improving it. Also, it is worth mentioning the Grange, the old church near the grange, the presence of Humboldt County's most popular or only Unitarian Church (which has occupied two sites in the community), and perhaps the boundaries of this large unincorporated community, which borders on "Greater" Eureka. The area known as Bayside begins as Indianola ends. The spot is marked by a Humboldt Fire District #1 wooden post located on the east edge of Old Arcata Road a couple hundred yards north of Alto Brothers northernmost truck yard. Also, some political tomfoolery must have occurred between the 1950s and the 1960s because Indianola was technically part of the Arcata High School District, but since at least the 60s, if not before, all students of the Indianola area are part of the Eureka High School District. Of interest, is the fuzzy line that exists around there though. For example, as recent as the 1970s students living on the old, original Indianola Cutoff were able to choose between Eureka High and Arcata High School despite being in the Freshwater School District. Also, on the highway side, where the boundary is not nearly as clear as it is on the old road, the KOA and Bracut is included in Eureka, but some of the other businesses, a few of which may be south of there are located in Arcata, at least by phone prefix. Eureka has a long history of stealing from Arcata, starting with a fixed election to abscond with the county seat by 1860 or so. Additionally, it is interesting to see how the Eureka City limits includes access to Indianola, the KOA (I believe), and the city limits of Eureka and Arcata actually touch in the Arcata Bay portion of Humboldt Bay. Clearly Eureka wants to be sure to control as much development as possible along the 101 corridor. Anyway, these are some tidbits I wanted to share with you about the community and you may find these it interesting, especially the blurred lines between where Greater Eureka ends and the influence of Arcata begins at Bayside. Norcalal (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely fascinating, thanks for sharing! Now if we can only find citations!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 23:29, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I have made some changes to the Bayside article, related to the information that was in the article already. Citations and readjustment to follow. There is fascinating information on the Old Arcata Road that must be included as, by my calculatioins, about 3.3 miles of it bisect Bayside. The "Old Road" (as locals tend to call it), is the original highway from before the 1940s, and, especially in the area of present day Bayside, the road actually outlines the original high tide line or extent of marsh that once existed on the Arcata or Northern (largest portion) of Humboldt Bay. The OAR deserves its own article as the first major road to connect Eureka and Arcata and because it connects all these important little suburbs and unincorporated communities to the two major cities on the Bay. I have been looking at the addresses of businesses located on the 101 north of the Indianola exit, and to my surprise all businesses between Indianola and the Bayside Cutoff have Highway 101 North, Eureka 95501 addresses, despite the fact that most maps show the area in the 95524 area code. So District 1 Cal Trans main yard, KOA, Bracut Industrial Park (where Lowes secretly began negotiations to place a superstore years ago and failed in preliminaries for access safety reasons), Resale Lumber, and, of course, the California Redwood Company--all of them are in Eureka! Just to see them mess of zip codes around Indianola and north of there, just look at this: http://www.city-data.com/zipmaps/Eureka-California.html . Wow, what a mess the city fathers of Eureka caused as they creep northward. No doubt some of the businesses want a Eureka address as people search for suppliers (as in businesses that were/are located at Bracut Industrial Park (once a large mill, itself).Perhaps these businesses were all just allowed to hop over to the 95501 zip. But I wonder what Arcata thought of losing that, if indeed they did. Maybe, its in address only and the County still assesses the tax here on some of these businesses. More to come. Norcalal (talk) 19:31, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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Fixed! Oops! Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

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• northcoastjournal.com/ The North Coast Journal Website]</ref>, the ''Ferndale Enterprise'',<ref>[http://www.ferndaleenterprise.com/ Ferndale Enterprise homepage</ref> the ''McKinleyville Press'',<

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Fixed! Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:38, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Jefferson

Please join the discussion at Talk:Jefferson (proposed Pacific state)#Official website. —EncMstr (talk) 19:02, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Substing templates

Hi! Just wanted to remind you that when you use a welcome template on someone's talkpage, that you should always substitute the template. (For example, you should use{{subst:welcome}} rather than {{welcome}}.) Cheers, — Preceding signed comment added by Cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 23:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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September 2013

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• Standish.<ref>{{cite book|title=The Lassen Advocate, Special Centennial Edition, July 9th, 1965, [v.101|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=2WPsAAAAMAAJ|accessdate=13 September 2013|year=1965|

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Fixed!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

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Fixed!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Dennis Donaghy AFD (or "Phaedrx, now alone, needs help 'against' DuffBeerForMe & PinkBeast, et al")

Hi I dont know you or GedUK but I just asked GedUK for possible assistance/participation in the AFD on me, a BLP page, on a barely notable musician. (artist name: Phaedrx). Would you help me please? (I dont even know if this is not allowed to ask like this, if it is, I am sorry for violating the rulz) ...reason I am here on yr talkpage is - I saw "Ged" or "GedUK"'s decline of the previous AFD from this user, "DuffBeerForMe". Now this Duff's trying to delete the Dennis Donaghy page, when it was discussed as per notability several times already, jeez, and it was neutralized by user Revent earlier this year which no one seems to know or conveniently they forget, that safely and noncontroversially it has been maintained to standards since then, until this new AFD 9-28-13. I did minor minor help on it "Post-Revent" if you will....something pretty trivial and noncontroversial about a small society I belong to, and a minor Television broadcasting fact change... I dont touch the DD page otherwise, rather, I've created and improved pages (Navy Yard Shooting early 'Bldg 197' edit and others was a big one for me most recently) and NEVER ONCE Vanity-wise exploited this so-called wiki status, and if anything I have Honored it. And finally, I myself though I DID sort of create it, so did others whose pages are unattacked for years (not gonna name) and I myself AFD'd the thing, twice, since I first of all (Archive A) asked to not be on Wikipedia. They said you have to stay on the Blanket Statementstein band page, so I set about setting the record straight the best way I knew at the time, and Revent and Yngvadottir ended up refining my contributions. THANKS SO MUCH for all you do here ELLIN BELTZ!! ps what's after Burba?!Phaedrx (talk) 01:30, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

did you read ANYTHING I wrote above? never mind steven king or being famous (I'm not, he is, and yes, I knew about the Steven King thing already that is irrelevant here though). never mind all that, Ellin Beltz, as far as I can tell, you assisted in a misguided witchhunt against me after I clearly politely asked for your *Assistance*. how is that anything but wrong. you should be nice to me and read my reply to your erroneous vote and reconsider your hasty opinion that carries much oo much weight for something you were just dropped in on two minutes ago and you decided to come across like the expert (who apparently d9sclaimers their expertise saying 'now I'm no expert' then proceeding to act like one. So, tell me, I BEG, Where am I wrong or mischaracterizing your behavior with regard to the DD AFD? Nowhere. You were wrong on each and every count (though some good points inevitably slip thru any time someone opens their mouth) Phaedrx (talk) 09:34, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

If you ask for an opinion, you often times will get it. As for Elaine Spanky McFarland, had you bothered to read the article you would have found that not only is she an award winning performer in her own right, but she sang for the Mommas and the Poppas for years, she is not part of the "little rascals" with whom you seem to have her confused. I am really sorry that you feel the need to leave walls of text and personal insult on your website about me, but sincerely sir, this is all quite unnecessary. Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:32, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Helpme

{{helpme|What is protocol for behavior such as in the foregoing?}} User:Phaedrx has modified his personal website to insult me[3] and placed a large wall of text on the AFD page {https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dennis_Donaghy | AFD Page] which includes less that polite remarks? Phaedryx seems to be a sock of the page creator of the article as well, although with his difficult writing style it's hard to tell what anything really is with him. Any help in this regard will be greatly appreciated. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

WP:ANI could be used for the harassment, but we can't control his website, so it's not likely to get taken down. If it's any consolation, quite a few of us who help in the IRC help channel were insulted and rudely talked to by him multiple times in the past. You may try e-mailing him (Mr. Donaghy) about it, but I wouldn't recommend it - he'd likely just use those emails to further harass you. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 21:39, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Just another link: WP:HARASSMENT#Off-wiki_harassment. Regards ~Charmlet ^-talk- 21:43, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestions. I think I'll just sit and wait. He did bring this up at ANI also with charges against me and DuffBeer(?) for alleged harrassment of him. Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:25, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Two additional comments: Regarding the account that created the Dennis Donaghy article, that was indeed an alternate account of User:Phaedrx, once was declared as such on his userpage and has been abandoned. I'd say that issue has long been resolved.

Regarding the off-wiki attack page, see also WP:NPA#Off-wiki attacks. I would advise you not to email Mr. Donaghy; I fail to see any likely benefit, and you probably wouldn't want him to know your email address. In my personal opinion the screed at phaedrx.com says much more about Phaedrx than about you, but then again I'm safely pseudonymous and probably find it easier to laugh off such insults than if they were connected to my real name. Huon (talk) 22:03, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments, I do agree with you both. I am sorry I didn't notice that the User had previous User names. I don't know why I didn't see it, I think I looked at his talk page, and perhaps didn't read carefully enough due to the appearance of the text. But I guess it's good to know that my "spider sense" was right on that even if I was a doofus for not seeing it on the user page! Again thank you for your comments! Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:25, 1 October 2013 (UTC)