Electromechanic

Welcome to Wikipedia from Pharaoh of the Wizards

Hi, Electromechanic. I welcome you to Wikipedia! Thank you for all of your edits. I hope you like editing here and being part of Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); when you save the page, this will turn into your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or put {{helpme}} (and what you need help with) on your talk page and someone will show up very soon to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:58, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Pharaoh of the Wizards, thankyou for the welcome and thankyou for telling me about the tildes. I'll remeber to do that in the future and I may come to ask you for a few tips. Thanks very much. Regards (Electromechanic (talk) 12:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC))

AfD nomination of Lex Wotton

I have nominated Lex Wotton, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lex Wotton. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Mattinbgn\^talk 08:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be a matter of opinion. Perhaps you should do a little more research on Lex Wotton and then come back. (Electromechanic (talk) 14:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC))

It does seem to be a matter of opinion and also a matter of perception where some people are concerned. As a matter of interest, who is the very first person who nominated the article for deletion? (Starman005 (talk) 05:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC))

November 2008

Please remember to mark your edits, such as your recent edits to Lex Wotton, as minor if (and only if) they genuinely are minor edits (see Help:Minor edit). Marking a major change as a minor one is considered poor etiquette. The rule of thumb is that only an edit that consists solely of spelling corrections, formatting changes, or rearranging of text without modifying content should be flagged as a 'minor edit.' Thank you. A new name 2008 (talk) 15:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Deleted article

If you disagree with the result of an AfD discussion, you can contact the closing admin or go to deletion review. Recreating the aticle against the AfD result is considered disruptive. Fram (talk) 10:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Why the need on your part to have Lex Wotton article deleted ? (Electromechanic (talk) 10:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

There is no need on my part. I uphold the decision of the AfD. If you disagree with that, you should follow normal procedures instead of trying to have it your way despite the community discussion. If you feel that the AfD was wrongly closed, you should discuss it with the closing admin or take it to DRV. These are the only two options currently available to you if you want to follow our policies. If you don't want to follow them, you are proceeding at your own risk... Fram (talk) 11:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Can I ask what is your actual position within Wikipedia ? Who was responsible for the deletion of the Lex Wotton page , who was the closing admin ? What is the DRV ? Thanks in advance (Electromechanic (talk) 11:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

I am an administrator (one of the about 1500 here). The closing admin was User:MBisanz. And DRV is deletion review. Fram (talk) 12:17, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take it up with him then. (Electromechanic (talk) 12:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

Deletion review for Lex Wotton

Your request for a deletion review of Lex Wotton has been posted at Wikipedia:Deletion review. -- Suntag ☼ 20:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Lex Wotton Deletion review archive: Do not edit, personal viewing purposes only

Lex Wotton

Lex Wotton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore | cache | AfD))

Hello, this is my first time here on this page. Apologies for any incorrect placement. This is about a page of a well known Australian Aboriginal figure that has been deleted. The Lex Wotton page was created last week and almost immediatley a member had placed a deletion request on the page with the reason given that Lex Wotton was not notable enough etc. Also he said cover article and not the person as well as saying that Wikipedia is not a soap box and not Lex Wotton's website etc. The page has been wiped and a redirection placed so it goes to 2004 Palm Island death in custody. Well for starters my input on the article and creation was for the sole reason of a notable person, well known and controversial was not yet entered into the Wikipedia database. Lex Wotton became more widely known as a result of the Palm Island riots that took place becuause of the death in custody of Mulrunji Doomadgee, a young Palm Island Aboriginal man. Lex Wotton was then on the front page of major Australian news papers as well as a feature in some magazines. He even was on the cover of The National Indigenous Times as well as featured in other issues of the magazine [1] & [2] Wotton has appeared and spoken at various venues around Australia in its major cities about the ongoing problem of Aboriginal deaths in custody. His trial and conviction and imprisonment is well doccumented as well as being a source of controversy and debate. Indigenous activist groups around the globe have expressed their concerns and support for him. Just an example of one other. Unions, Actvists, Politicians both leftwing and right wing, have taken his plight on board. There have been rallies and protests in major cities regarding his conviction. A search via any of the major search engines will bring up many many articles as well as thousands of references. Please have a search of Lex Wotton via the search engines. What do you think ? Is he notable enough ? Is he worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia ?Your views would be greatly apreciated. Thanks. (Electromechanic (talk) 12:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

• Copied here from WT:DRV. lifebaka++ 17:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• Endorse redirect - since it could not have been closed any other way. The predominant issue in the AfD was BLP1E, not notability. A Wikipedia biography article such as Lex Wotton requires balance between the events over the person's entire life. The one event in his life, the trial, so overwhelms the other published events in his life that the outcome could not be a balanced Wikipedia biography article. On the other hand, 2004 Palm Island death in custody now covers very little about Lex Wotton. As proposed in the AfD, I think if you start an article Trial of Lex Wotton and make the trial the main topic focus, you will overcome the BLP1E and have a place to present a significant amount of information on Lex Wotton (see Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL) that now is not feasible. In short, I endorse the redirect AfD close and believe that an article entitled Trial of Lex Wotton likely would not be subject to G4 speedy deletion. -- Suntag ☼ 20:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
• Endorse, valid closure. Stifle (talk) 21:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose closure
• Oppose redirect
• Take the time to investigate the profile of Lex Wotton - Firstly the person who was so keen to have the Lex Wotton article buried used the excuse of non notability. You say that "the one event in his life, the trial so overwhelms the other published events in his life" and that "the other published events in his life that the outcome could not be a balanced Wikipedia biography article. Well I beg to differ here. Lex Wotton is highly notable not only for his part and portrayal in the Palm Island Riot, not only for his trial which has attracted much controversy but also his status now as a person who major organisations and high profile people have taken on board his plight, campaigned his for release.

When inserting just Lex Wotton and nothing else into the popular search engine GOOGLE , the very first thing that comes up on search is this and its also shown here below.

---

Drop the Charges Against Lex Wotton! - Melbourne Speakout | Sydney ...
in support of Lex Wotton on Saturday 22 Sept 07 at the old GPO to ... state continues to target
respected Palm Island man, Lex Wotton, whom ...
sydney.indymedia.org.au/story/drop-charges-against-lex-wotton-melbourne-speakout - 53k -
Cached - Similar pages

Verdict in trial of Lex Wotton, Palm Island leader - Andrew Bartlett
24 Oct 2008 ... On Wednesday I attended a rally outside the Brisbane District Court, held to
show support for Palm Island man, Lex Wotton, whose trial had ...
blogs.crikey.com.au/bartlett/2008/10/24/verdict-in-trial-of-lex-wotton-palm-island-leader/ - 29k -
Cached - Similar pages

Lex Wotton on Trial at slackbastard
9 Oct 2008 ... Lex Wotton is a Palm Island man currently on trial in Brisbane. ... Lex Wotton,
by contrast, has already served three months in jail and is ...
slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=1401 - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

Police Union attacks MP Mike Reynolds over Palm Island | The ...
26 Oct 2008 ... Speaking after Palm Island man Lex Wotton on Friday night was found guilty of
inciting the riot, Mr Pope said justice had been served, ...
www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24549054-952,00.html - Similar pages

Aboriginal activists and release riot leader Lex Wotton | The ...

1 Nov 2008 ... ABORIGINAL activists are calling for the release of convicted Palm Island riot

ringleader Lex Wotton - due to be sentenced on Friday - at a ...

www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,27574,24586027-3102,00.html - Similar pages

More results from www.news.com.au »

Green Left - AUSTRALIA: Free Lex Wotton!
25 Oct 2008 ... Aboriginal activist Sam Watson has called for major rallies in cities across
Australia in response to Palm Island Aboriginal man Lex Wotton ...
www.greenleft.org.au/2008/772/39826 - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

Green Left - AUSTRALIA: Free Lex Wotton!

Nov 2008 ... Palm Island Aboriginal man Lex Wotton was sentenced to six years’ jail for “riot

with destruction” on November 7 — just four days after 22 ... ...

www.greenleft.org.au/2008/774/39942 - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
More results from www.greenleft.org.au »

The World Today - Alleged ringleader of Palm Island riots runs for ...
28 Nov 2006 ... CONOR DUFFY: Lex Wotton is accused of leading the riots that saw the ...
Lex Wotton says the current council has wasted time attacking the ...
www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1799437.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

---

So what we have here from the first eight out of ten search results shown in the order that they appear is

• One article calling for the charges against Lex Wotton to be dropped.*
• One article posted by politician Andrew Bartlett giving his view about the action against Palm Island leader Lex Wotton.*
• Information about a Free Lex Wotton rally for November 1 and some viewpoints posted about his trial.*
• A Courier Mail article by Kay Dibben and Brett Judge *
• A Courier Mail article about Aboriginal activists calling for Lex Wottons release. *
• An article from The Green Left newspaper about Aboriginal activist Sam Watson calling for major rallies in cities across Australia in response to Palm Island Aboriginal man Lex Wotton being found guilty on October 24. *
• An article from the Green Left newspaper calling for Lex Wotton to be freed. *
• An interview archived on the ABC website regarding Lex Wottons plans to run for mayor of Palm Island. *

So if the popular search engine Google is anything to go by then the results here give an indication that there is more about Lex Wotton than just the trial or the riot.

If we were to use the reasoning " The one event in his life, the trial, so overwhelms the other published events in his life that the outcome could not be a balanced Wikipedia biography article.", then it could also be said that each of these people below are notable for only one event and therefore not worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia.

• Martin Bryant
• Schapelle Corby
• Stuart Diver

This could mean a massive clean up, deletion of other thousands and thousands of articles.
But ..... Lex Wotton is not just notable for " The one event in his life, the trial" .... Is he ?
Lex Wotton "events in his life", the "publshed events in his life" and the other events that are being published and no doubt will continue to be published as his story continues and grows.
Lex Wottons life is one of multiple events as shown in the media. (Electromechanic (talk) 11:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC))

My message to Electromechanic

Electromechanic, sorry that we couldn't keep the page up. I was of line for a while and when I came back I noticed that the who thing had vanished. Your efforts were valiant and its a shame that this sort of thing takes place in Wikipedia. Thats the way it goes. You have to remember mate that not everyone has an open mind and you can possibly offend the beliefs and sensibilites of some by putting up such and article. My view is that the article was a great idea and someting that would be of value but you're not only possibly challenging the sensibilites of some folk but you're likely to pose a threat to their current state of apathy.

Have a think about why the Palm Island Riot took place and think about what has been leading up to it for the last few hundred years. Get it! Some people will never be removed from their comfort zones by what ever means or logic. Thats the way things are. These certain people who lack any kind of understanding, empathy, willingness to learn or face the truth are in all sectors. They're in the Legal profession, Judicial system, Law Enforcment, Education System, Welfare System, walking on the street, doing their shopping, anywhere and everywhere else including Wikipedia. That sir is the challange you face when you bring forth new material like this and which is guaranteed to be confronting. Some people are never going to unlearn certain things that they have been taught to think because this school of thought is not only inherited , its also institutionalised. (Starman005 (talk) 06:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC))

Lex Wotton

My apologies for not replying earlier.[3] was deleted after a WP:AFD and the rationale is he was one event only. You can recreate the page but only after deletion review.Need sources which prove notablity to have a separate article rather than an article which deals with arrest.The article [Trial of Lex Wotton] is close.I will check sources and get back to you Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:29, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Stephen Hagan

I'm afraid I can't personally - I retired from admin duties a while ago. The best place to request it would be Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, and I'm sure someone will be onto it promptly. You might also want to stick a note on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard - this will usually lead to a few more people keeping an eye on the page. Rebecca (talk) 12:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Electro, the person who made some racist edits on the Hagan page also did on some others too (AIR PACIFIC77 (talk) 09:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC))

The IP vandalism is offensive, but I don't believe its frequent enough to justify a page protection. I've watchlisted the page, but feel free to let me know if vandalism resumes and I appear to have missed it. And congratulations on creating the article in the first place. Euryalus (talk) 22:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

There were some more attempts at racist vandalism but it seems to have settled down for now. Thanks. (Electromechanic (talk) 09:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC))